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Re: [evol-psych] Classical vs operant conditioning in nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution

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  • John Angel
    ... JA: Give it a rest Kohl. I have attached a paper that just might enlighten you or it may not. Best John John Angel Ethologist and Canid Researcher Coaching
    Message 1 of 7 , May 7, 2013

    On May 7, 2013, at 10:04 AM, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:

    Don't be fooled by the misrepresentations made based on past experiments performed before the difference between classical conditioning and operant conditioning became perfectly clear (circa 1996). For example, more that 300 references may appear to support assertions that tone and foot-shock pairing exemplifies Pavlovian conditioning, which it obviously does not. For comparison odor and foot-shock pairing does exemplify classical/Pavlovian conditioning in the honeybee model organism, which in my model links nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution in species from microbes to man.
    JA: Give it a rest Kohl. I have attached a paper that just might enlighten you or it may not.

    Best

    John



  • james kohl
    Give it a rest, Angel. I wrote: the difference between classical conditioning and operant conditioning became perfectly clear (circa 1996). You want me to
    Message 2 of 7 , May 7, 2013
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      Give it a rest, Angel.  I wrote: "the difference between classical conditioning and operant conditioning became perfectly clear (circa 1996)." You want me to read a paper from 1988 for enlightenment.

      I hope that others here realize how many mispresentations you are personally responsible for in the context of your expressed views as an unenlightened animal trainer.
       
      James V. Kohl
      Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
      Independent researcher
      Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.



      From: John Angel <ethologistfl@...>
      To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, May 7, 2013 6:37:38 PM
      Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Classical vs operant conditioning in nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution [1 Attachment]


      On May 7, 2013, at 10:04 AM, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:

      Don't be fooled by the misrepresentations made based on past experiments performed before the difference between classical conditioning and operant conditioning became perfectly clear (circa 1996). For example, more that 300 references may appear to support assertions that tone and foot-shock pairing exemplifies Pavlovian conditioning, which it obviously does not. For comparison odor and foot-shock pairing does exemplify classical/Pavlovian conditioning in the honeybee model organism, which in my model links nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution in species from microbes to man.
      JA: Give it a rest Kohl. I have attached a paper that just might enlighten you or it may not.

      Best

      John


    • John Angel
      ... JA: Really Kohl. You are off on another planet with your rubbish. Hmmmmm how about an example. Let me see. Well lets look at pheromones. In the past
      Message 3 of 7 , May 8, 2013
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        On May 7, 2013, at 9:17 PM, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:

        I hope that others here realize how many mispresentations you are personally responsible for in the context of your expressed views as an unenlightened animal trainer.

        JA: Really Kohl. You are off on another planet with your rubbish. Hmmmmm how about an example. Let me see. Well lets look at pheromones. In the past actually many posts you have declared that this statement was incorrect. "During proestrus estrogen levels are responsible for pheromone release". Of course you never answered the question when asked for clarification.  But you are the pheromone expert! Perhaps you would like  to answer now it has only been a year. Hmm forgive me the entire university community is wrong in their teachings. Microbes to Man good answer Kohl. I am calling you out. Where is your data not someone else's. Got data kohl??? Highly unlikely! 

        Best

        John
        Ethologist and Canid Researcher 
        Coaching People Rehabilitating Dogs
        Member  FABA ABAI ABS  ABMA  APDT 

         
         
         
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      • james kohl
        From: John Angel On May 7, 2013, at 9:17 PM, james kohl wrote: I hope that others here realize how many
        Message 4 of 7 , May 8, 2013
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          From: John Angel
          On May 7, 2013, at 9:17 PM, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:

          I hope that others here realize how many mispresentations you are personally responsible for inthe context of your expressed views as an unenlightenedanimal trainer.

          JA: Really Kohl. You are off on another planet with your rubbish. Hmmmmm how about an example. Let me see. Well lets look at pheromones. In the past actually many posts you have declared that this statement was incorrect. "During proestrus estrogen levels are responsible for pheromone release". Of course you never answered the question when asked for clarification. �But you are the pheromone expert! Perhaps you would like �to answer now it has only been a year. Hmm forgive me the entire university community is wrong in their teachings. Microbes to Man good answer Kohl. I am calling you out. Where is your data not someone else's. Got data kohl??? Highly unlikely!

          JK: You continue to cut from my messages, any inclusion of data, and then ask me for my data. I have a model of adaptive evolution. But, to again exemplify your nonsense, here is an example of the data included in my model via focus on the honeybee model organism!

          APIS—a novel approach for conditioning honey bees Nicholas H. Kirkerud, Henja-Niniane Wehmann, C. Giovanni Galizia, and David Gustav

          Abstract excerpt: "In an enclosed walking arena where the interior is covered with an electric grid, presentation of odors from either end can be combined with weak electric shocks to form aversive associations."

          My comment: This exemplifies Pavlovian conditioning. Substitution of a tone for the odor, as in tone and foot-shock pairing, does not exemplify Pavlovian/classical conditioning. Understanding the difference between classical/Pavlovian and operant conditioning is required to understand why the honeybee model organism best exemplifies what is currently known about nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution.
          �

          Article excerpt: "Additional experiments employing purely operant conditioning (e.g., where escape behavior induces shock stimulus termination) will have to be carried out in order to investigate the impact of any operant element."

          My comment: Don't be fooled by the misrepresentations made based on past experiments performed before the difference between classical conditioning and operant conditioning became perfectly clear (circa 1996). For example, more that 300 references may appear to support assertions that tone and foot-shock pairing exemplifies Pavlovian conditioning, which it obviously does not. For comparison odor and foot-shock pairing does exemplify classical/Pavlovian conditioning in the honeybee model organism, which in my model links nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution in species from microbes to man.
          James V. Kohl
          Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          Independent researcher
          Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.

        • John Angel
          ... JA: I was requesting your data from your lab not someone else s. I find it puzzling that you would not supply the group with data. I also find it troubling
          Message 5 of 7 , May 8, 2013
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            On May 8, 2013, at 11:57 AM, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:

            JK: You continue to cut from my messages, any inclusion of data, and then ask me for my data. I have a model of adaptive evolution. But, to again exemplify your nonsense, here is an example of the data included in my model via focus on the honeybee model organism!


            JA: I was requesting your data from your lab not someone else's. I find it puzzling that you would not supply the group with data. I also find it troubling you will not answer a direct question. Every list you post on has the identical answers and posts. Your responses are non sequitur. Perhaps you have no data and just assembled everyone else's work and came up with your nutter model. Very strange Kohl.

            Best

            John


            John Angel  
            Ethologist and Canid Researcher 
            Coaching People Rehabilitating Dogs
            Member  FABA ABAI ABS  ABMA  APDT 

             
             
             
            The information contained in this email message and any attachments is
            legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use
            of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this message is
            not the intended recipient, or the agent or employee of the intended
            recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or
            copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
            If you have received this communication in error, please destroy it and
            remove it immediately from your PC and server, and notify us by return email
            that it was received in error.  Thank you.








          • james kohl
            From: John Angel On May 8, 2013, at 11:57 AM, james kohl wrote: JK: You continue to cut from my messages, any
            Message 6 of 7 , May 9, 2013
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              From: John Angel
              On May 8, 2013, at 11:57 AM, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:

              JK:You continue to cut from my messages, any inclusion of data, and then ask me for my data. I have a model of adaptive evolution. But, to again exemplify your nonsense, here is an example of the data included in my model via focus on the honeybee model organism!


              JA: I was requesting your data from your lab not someone else's. I find it puzzling that you would not supply the group with data. I also find it troubling you will not answer a direct question. Every list you post on has the identical answers and posts. Your responses are non sequitur. Perhaps you have no data and just assembled everyone else's work and came up with your nutter model. Very strange Kohl.

              JK: "My lab" is a hospital lab in which all data points to the same biologically based cause and effect in all species.� In my published works, I have integrated that data.� Here, I've also linked to study results several times that support extension of that data and my model to humans. For example: Human pheromones and nutrient chemicals: epigenetic effects on ecological, social, and neurogenic niches that affect behavior. What's very strange is for you to continue to insist I am not responding appropriately to your accusations, as you continue to cut portions of my responses away and to take whatever I write out of its context, which is "Classical vs operant conditioning in nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled adaptive evolution".

              If you would rather again attempt to convince others that tone and foot-shock pairing exemplifies Pavlovian conditioning, please supply us with data from your lab that supports your scientifically unsubstantiated opinion of cause and effect.


              James V. Kohl
              Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
              Independent researcher
              Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.




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