Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Proximate mechanisms: Random mutations cause transcriptional bursts

Expand Messages
  • Nancy Bovee
    JK: Do random mutations play a role in food choice? NB: Looks like they do in humans. A random mutation altered the timing of an enzyme which makes some
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 4, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      JK: Do random mutations play a role in food choice?

      NB:  Looks like they do in humans.  A random mutation altered the timing of an enzyme which makes some humans able to choose and digest milk throughout childhood and adulthood.  People without this mutation do NOT choose milkshakes….

      Nancy B


      Mon Mar 4, 2013 4:31 am (PST) . Posted by:

      "james kohl" jvkohl@...

      I'll try a different approach: 

      If random mutations are involved in adaptive evolution, please attempt to 
      explain how they cause the required transcriptional bursts, which clearly link 
      the epigenetic landscape to the physical landscape of DNA via chromatin 
      remodeling. As an alternative, attempt to explain how the epigenetic effects of 
      nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling can be eliminated. 
      In my model, for example, 

      the nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling enables the 
      development of observable phenotypic characteristics of reproductive fitness 
      (e.g., in some species) that can be naturally selected. However, selection for 
      visual appeal is directly enabled by olfaction and odor receptors, as it is for 
      nutrient selection. 

      Is there another model for that? Do random mutations play a role in food choice?
    • james kohl
      Nancy just told us about a nutrient-dependent adaptation while inferring that the adaptation was caused by a random mutation instead of the nutrient. I m sure
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 4, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Nancy just told us about a nutrient-dependent adaptation while inferring that the adaptation was caused by a random mutation instead of the nutrient. I'm sure that others are equally confused when it comes to cause and effect, and thank her for the example of that confusion.
         
        James V. Kohl
        Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
        Independent researcher
        Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.



        From: Nancy Bovee <Empress9@...>
        To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, March 4, 2013 6:28:42 PM
        Subject: [evol-psych] Re: Proximate mechanisms: Random mutations cause transcriptional bursts

         

        JK: Do random mutations play a role in food choice?


        NB:  Looks like they do in humans.  A random mutation altered the timing of an enzyme which makes some humans able to choose and digest milk throughout childhood and adulthood.  People without this mutation do NOT choose milkshakes….

        Nancy B


        Mon Mar 4, 2013 4:31 am (PST) . Posted by:

        "james kohl" jvkohl@...

        I'll try a different approach: 

        If random mutations are involved in adaptive evolution, please attempt to 
        explain how they cause the required transcriptional bursts, which clearly link 
        the epigenetic landscape to the physical landscape of DNA via chromatin 
        remodeling. As an alternative, attempt to explain how the epigenetic effects of 
        nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling can be eliminated. 
        In my model, for example, 

        the nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling enables the 
        development of observable phenotypic characteristics of reproductive fitness 
        (e.g., in some species) that can be naturally selected. However, selection for 
        visual appeal is directly enabled by olfaction and odor receptors, as it is for 
        nutrient selection. 

        Is there another model for that? Do random mutations play a role in food choice?
      • empress999yyy
        The change in the gene is not nutrient dependent and as a matter of fact, similar changes in this gene segment have cropped up (oh, should I say randomly?)
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 9, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          The change in the gene is not nutrient dependent and as a matter of fact, similar changes in this gene segment have cropped up (oh, should I say randomly?) three distinct times in humans. The fact that the gene is responsible for altering a sugar so that it can become a nutrient rather than an irritant can lead you to confusion about whether the change is "nutrient-led." It is not. If it were, every human consuming lactose would be able to make the same epigenetic change you are espousing. But that isn't the case.

          As a matter of fact, in a land without dairies (or wild milkmaids) such a change in a gene would be benign and neither confer nor prohibit procreation, but just ride along on the DNA. There would be no 'visible' phenotypic difference between those with or without the altered gene allowing the continuing digestion of lactose.

          Selection occurs, not at the molecular level, but at the organism level when pressure selects between potential procreators. In this case, all it would take is a lack of some of the alternate food sources (say fish or sweet potatoes) leaving the very young susceptible to starvation. Oh, all except those who can digest lactose past infancy! They will be "selected for" and continue along in the population even when the fish and sweet potatoes return and there is no milk for generations.

          Can your theory explain why humans cannot generate the capacity to digest lactose without these genetic changes?

          Nancy B

          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:
          >
          > Nancy just told us about a nutrient-dependent adaptation while inferring that
          > the adaptation was caused by a random mutation instead of the nutrient. I'm sure
          > that others are equally confused when it comes to cause and effect, and thank
          > her for the example of that confusion.
          >
          > James V. Kohl
          > Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
          > Independent researcher
          > Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the
          > socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience &
          > Psychology, 2: 17338.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Nancy Bovee <Empress9@...>
          > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Mon, March 4, 2013 6:28:42 PM
          > Subject: [evol-psych] Re: Proximate mechanisms: Random mutations cause
          > transcriptional bursts
          >
          >
          > JK: Do random mutations play a role in food choice?
          >
          > NB: Looks like they do in humans. A random mutation altered the timing of an
          > enzyme which makes some humans able to choose and digest milk throughout
          > childhood and adulthood. People without this mutation do NOT choose
          > milkshakes….
          >
          > Nancy B
          >
          >
          > Mon Mar 4, 2013 4:31 am (PST) . Posted by:
          > "james kohl" jvkohl@...
          > I'll try a different approach:
          >
          > If random mutations are involved in adaptive evolution, please attempt to
          > explain how they cause the required transcriptional bursts, which clearly link
          > the epigenetic landscape to the physical landscape of DNA via chromatin
          > remodeling. As an alternative, attempt to explain how the epigenetic effects of
          > nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling can be
          > eliminated.
          > In my model, for example,
          >
          > the nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling enables the
          > development of observable phenotypic characteristics of reproductive fitness
          > (e.g., in some species) that can be naturally selected. However, selection for
          > visual appeal is directly enabled by olfaction and odor receptors, as it is for
          > nutrient selection.
          >
          > Is there another model for that? Do random mutations play a role in food choice?
          >
        • james kohl
          Nancy, Please tell the group what aspect of this model you think is due to a random mutation and how the mutation is selected. Please stop your nonsense!
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 9, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Nancy,

            Please tell the group what aspect of this model you think is due to a random mutation and how the mutation is selected. Please stop your nonsense!

            Nutrient-dependent / Pheromone-controlled Adaptive Evolution
             
            James V. Kohl
            Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
            Independent researcher
            Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.



            From: "Empress9@..." <Empress9@...>
            To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, March 9, 2013 10:49:55 AM
            Subject: [evol-psych] Re: Proximate mechanisms: Random mutations cause transcriptional bursts

             

            The change in the gene is not nutrient dependent and as a matter of fact, similar changes in this gene segment have cropped up (oh, should I say randomly?) three distinct times in humans. The fact that the gene is responsible for altering a sugar so that it can become a nutrient rather than an irritant can lead you to confusion about whether the change is "nutrient-led." It is not. If it were, every human consuming lactose would be able to make the same epigenetic change you are espousing. But that isn't the case.

            As a matter of fact, in a land without dairies (or wild milkmaids) such a change in a gene would be benign and neither confer nor prohibit procreation, but just ride along on the DNA. There would be no 'visible' phenotypic difference between those with or without the altered gene allowing the continuing digestion of lactose.

            Selection occurs, not at the molecular level, but at the organism level when pressure selects between potential procreators. In this case, all it would take is a lack of some of the alternate food sources (say fish or sweet potatoes) leaving the very young susceptible to starvation. Oh, all except those who can digest lactose past infancy! They will be "selected for" and continue along in the population even when the fish and sweet potatoes return and there is no milk for generations.

            Can your theory explain why humans cannot generate the capacity to digest lactose without these genetic changes?

            Nancy B

            --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, james kohl <jvkohl@...> wrote:
            >
            > Nancy just told us about a nutrient-dependent adaptation while inferring that
            > the adaptation was caused by a random mutation instead of the nutrient. I'm sure
            > that others are equally confused when it comes to cause and effect, and thank
            > her for the example of that confusion.
            >
            > James V. Kohl
            > Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
            > Independent researcher
            > Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the
            > socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience &
            > Psychology, 2: 17338.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Nancy Bovee <Empress9@...>
            > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Mon, March 4, 2013 6:28:42 PM
            > Subject: [evol-psych] Re: Proximate mechanisms: Random mutations cause
            > transcriptional bursts
            >
            >
            > JK: Do random mutations play a role in food choice?
            >
            > NB: Looks like they do in humans. A random mutation altered the timing of an
            > enzyme which makes some humans able to choose and digest milk throughout
            > childhood and adulthood. People without this mutation do NOT choose
            > milkshakes….
            >
            > Nancy B
            >
            >
            > Mon Mar 4, 2013 4:31 am (PST) . Posted by:
            > "james kohl" jvkohl@...
            > I'll try a different approach:
            >
            > If random mutations are involved in adaptive evolution, please attempt to
            > explain how they cause the required transcriptional bursts, which clearly link
            > the epigenetic landscape to the physical landscape of DNA via chromatin
            > remodeling. As an alternative, attempt to explain how the epigenetic effects of
            > nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling can be
            > eliminated.
            > In my model, for example,
            >
            > the nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlle d chromatin remodeling enables the
            > development of observable phenotypic characteristics of reproductive fitness
            > (e.g., in some species) that can be naturally selected. However, selection for
            > visual appeal is directly enabled by olfaction and odor receptors, as it is for
            > nutrient selection.
            >
            > Is there another model for that? Do random mutations play a role in food choice?
            >

          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.