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Re: [evol-psych] is death a dream or illusion?

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  • Anna
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 13, 2013
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      <In all these attempts to preserve some of the content of the old religious beliefs, it is appropriate to ask the question: How does this proposal fit in with existing scientific theory?>
       
      This has nothing to do with religion. BTW, science can also be religion and often is, in spite of the fact that so many of “revelations” regularly  end up in a garbage can.
      But since you have mentioned it, what scientific theory can you offer proving once and for all that mind dies together with brain? The evidence such as lack of any response from mind after the brain’s death, or inability to observe  anything surviving death is not adequate since most of the universe cannot be observed and does not interact with us. And nobody is arrogant enough to claim that the universe consists of only observable or visible parts.  Nevertheless, according to your reasoning, our universe must extremely small, so small that it can hardly accommodate earthly souls ( as if they would take any space).
       
      Information theory offers more than enough arguments that your mind  cannot die. I suggest you take it into consideration.
      Anna
       
      Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 4:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [evol-psych] is death a dream or illusion?
       

      --- In mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com, "Anna" wrote:

      > Your Occam razor must be dull. You assume that
      whatever realm there is it must be limited and finite. If the universe is infinite and limitless, it will accommodate Everything. And it does. Earth with all its present and past life is just a drop in the ocean.
      > Conservation
      of energy does not permit destruction of anything, only for transformation of form.

      DWZ:
      In all these attempts to preserve some of the content of the old religious beliefs, it is appropriate to ask the question: How does this proposal fit in with existing scientific theory?

      Does the mind-substance, or the spirit, or whatever it may be, conform to the Standard Model of particle physics? If not, what research needs to be undertaken to find out more about its properties and how they relate to what we already know? Will findings coming from the Large Hadron Collider be of any help in learning more about it? And so on. Surely if the universe contains a remarkable force or substance unlike the familiar physical ones, future scientists willbe most interested in studying its properties.

      In theoretical physics there certainly is room for a lot still not known today, including speculations about events before the Big Bang, the multiverse, hidden dimensions, infinite spaces, etc. But all these new theoretical ideas are built on what is already established. They are attempts to unify existing science and not to find ways of recovering beliefs from a pre-scientific epoch.

      People who hang on to the past and take the position, "It is a matter of faith and not science," are becoming fewer and fewer with each passing generation.

      Best regards,

      Donald W. Zimmerman
      Vancouver, BC, Canada
      mailto:dwzimm%40telus.net
      http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a82899

    • Don Zimmerman
      ... DWZ: Almost all neuroscientists, cognitive scientists, cognitive psychologists, researchers in consciousness, etc., today believe the brain is essentially
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 13, 2013
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        --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Anna" wrote:

        > This has nothing to do with religion. BTW, science can also be religion and often is, in spite of the fact that so many of “revelations” regularly end up in a garbage can.
        > But since you have mentioned it, what scientific theory can you offer proving once and for all that mind dies together with brain? The evidence such as lack of any response from mind after the brain’s death, or inability to observe anything surviving death is not adequate since most of the universe cannot be observed and does not interact with us. And nobody is arrogant enough to claim that the universe consists of only observable or visible parts. Nevertheless, according to your reasoning, our universe must extremely small, so small that it can hardly accommodate earthly souls ( as if they would take any space).
        >
        > Information theory offers more than enough arguments that your mind cannot die. I suggest you take it into consideration.


        DWZ:
        Almost all neuroscientists, cognitive scientists, cognitive psychologists, researchers in consciousness, etc., today believe the brain is essentially related to the phenomena called "mind" and that the latter disappear when death occurs and the brain no longer functions. Therefore, it seems to me that the notion of an eternal spirit, or mind-stuff that survives after death, demands very convincing hard evidence that can be related to what is already known in the above disciplines.

        I would suggest that what is really needed is more research that relates the mind-stuff, or rather the mind-function, that is present during life to the events in the external environment that are esssential for its functioning -- its relation to language, society, and culture. Our present conceptions of mind are still tied up with religious notions of olden days, and we still think of mind as somehow "nothing more" than the functioning of the brain, and that point of view has to end before substantial progress can occur.

        Best regards,

        Donald W. Zimmerman
        Vancouver, BC, Canada
        dwzimm@...
        http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a82899
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