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Re: [evol-psych] Re: News: Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and Democrats

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  • Brad
    They just can t help it: Simon Baron Cohen What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences between the male and female brain, says Simon
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 3, 2012
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      They just can't help it: Simon Baron Cohen

      What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences between the male and female brain, says Simon Baron-Cohen. And they could help explain conditions such as autism Do you have a male or female brain?

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/apr/17/research.highereducation

       
      Brad Beal
      Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur


      From: Julienne <julienne@...>
      To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: News: Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and Democrats

       
      At 09:19 AM 11/2/2012, clarence_sonny_williams wrote:
      >This is embarrassing to neuroscience. Males and females are more
      >divergent in how their brains process socially salient information than
      >Democrats and Republicans...and there is no mistaking their identity.
      >Using 24 undergraduates at USC who self-identify as Republican or
      >Democrat means the study begins with a fuzzy population. And then we
      >use a fuzzy measurement of the brain's "hot spots" of those "fuzzily
      >segmented" subjects? Worthless!

      Well, okay - but, Sonny, no neuroscientist is very sure yet of the
      so-called differences between generic male and female brains.

      We have to start somewhere...

      Julienne

      >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
      ><stonjek@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and
      >Democrats
      > > November 1st, 2012 in Neuroscience
      > >

      The selection of a Republican candidate for the presidency of this
      globalized and expansive empire is - and I say this seriously - the
      greatest competition of idiocy and ignorance that has ever been.
      Fidel Castro. January 2012



    • hibbsa
      Brad - if you believe men and women have different brains, do you then believe transexualism is a real condition (man or woman with opposite sex brains)? I
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 4, 2012
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        Brad - if you believe men and women have different brains, do you then believe transexualism is a real condition (man or woman with opposite sex brains)?

        I only ask because one of the really funny things about the nature/nurture dived, that I think really shows off the politics and ideology on both sides, is that the 'right' believe in Nature, but typically refuse to accept homosexuality and transexualism are Nature, but instread Nurture. While the 'left' insist in Nurture, but for homosexuality and transexualism make an exception in calling it Nature. What a LOL!

        --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Brad <devilboy6x9@...> wrote:
        >
        > They just can't help it: Simon Baron Cohen
        >
        > What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences between the male and female brain, says Simon Baron-Cohen. And they could help
        > explain conditions such as autism Do you have a male or female brain?
        > http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/apr/17/research.highereducation
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        > Brad Beal
        > Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Julienne <julienne@...>
        > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:10 PM
        > Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: News: Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and Democrats
        >
        >
        >  
        > At 09:19 AM 11/2/2012, clarence_sonny_williams wrote:
        > >This is embarrassing to neuroscience. Males and females are more
        > >divergent in how their brains process socially salient information than
        > >Democrats and Republicans...and there is no mistaking their identity.
        > >Using 24 undergraduates at USC who self-identify as Republican or
        > >Democrat means the study begins with a fuzzy population. And then we
        > >use a fuzzy measurement of the brain's "hot spots" of those "fuzzily
        > >segmented" subjects? Worthless!
        >
        > Well, okay - but, Sonny, no neuroscientist is very sure yet of the
        > so-called differences between generic male and female brains.
        >
        > We have to start somewhere...
        >
        > Julienne
        >
        > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
        > ><stonjek@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and
        > >Democrats
        > > > November 1st, 2012 in Neuroscience
        > > >
        >
        > The selection of a Republican candidate for the presidency of this
        > globalized and expansive empire is - and I say this seriously - the
        > greatest competition of idiocy and ignorance that has ever been.
        > Fidel Castro. January 2012
        >
      • Brad
        hibbsa wrote: if you believe men and women have different brains, do you then believe transexualism is a real condition (man or woman with opposite sex
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 4, 2012
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          hibbsa wrote: if you believe men and women have different brains, do you then believe transexualism is a real condition (man or woman with opposite sex brains)? 

          First, I don't believe men and women have different brains but rather look at the facts based on substantial research and make an assessment on that research. The work presented by Simon Baron Cohen and others that I've read suggest that yes, male female brains are different.

          TALKING GENDER DIFFERENCES WITH SIMON BARON COHEN
          Would girls really opt for pink (a color considered highly masculine up to the 19th century) and boys veer towards the Lego aisle if the world didn't continually tell them they were hard-wired to do so? The nurture/nature debate is as old as the sexual differences that spawned it, but with two young children of my own (one boy, one girl) who seem to conform to gender type in spite of my encouraging them to make their own choices, I have begun to wonder just when (and why) sexual differences persist. And having tracked down the world's expert in what makes boys different from girls, Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, Lady Geek was not short of questions.
          I have a five-year-old boy and a three-year-old girl, and despite raising them the same way, they've turned out completely differently. How can you explain this?
          In tests, on average boys show more interest in games like Lego, and girls are more interested in dolls, acting out social stories where they inject emotions and thoughts into the plastic figures. Lego is just one example of systemizing; this is the drive to build or analyse a system, which is simply anything that follows rules or patterns. So you are looking for consistent repeating patterns, and boys on average seem to show a stronger interest in systems, whereas girls develop social skills more quickly. I talk about this in terms of empathy, which is the drive to identify (and respond to) someone else's thoughts and feelings. The systemizing/empathizing theory is a new model for characterizing typical sex differences.
          At school I hated science but loved drama and languages. Does this make me an "empathizer?"
          These profiles don't describe all boys and girls, and you can't pre-judge the type of mind an individual has just by their sex. Whenever we try to profile people, we use a range of measures, not just what toys you liked or what subjects you enjoyed, but it does sound like you had a natural tendency to be drawn to people, rather than to the mechanical.
          So how should we approach the differences in the sexes? Should we challenge them or accept them?
          Well, these are tough decisions. In general it's good to give children as wide a choice as possible, and there is no harm in encouraging children to play with "typical" toys for the opposite sex. But whether we should be trying to change children is a more ethical decision; I think we should be supporting a child's interests, whatever they are.
          I spent most of my life working in big corporations. The typical male executive believes himself to be an expert in almost everything -- I was once on the receiving end of a lecture on wind-surfing from a man who'd hardly ever been near a beach. Where does this confidence come from?
          We know less about self-confidence in boys and girls, but we can speculate that someone who is good at systemizing can analyse a novel system that they've never experienced by analysing the parts, whether it's mathematical or wind surfing. If you've got good systemizing skills you can apply them to systems you aren't familiar with, and look for patterns.
          Fewer than 20 percent of the people who work in technology are female. How much of this is biological imperative, and how much is due to a culture which assumes that this is simply a male profession?
          You might imagine the ideal ratio would be 50-50, but it may be that men and women have different interests, so maybe we'll never arrive at that equal sex ratio. But we should still encourage women to enter technology, especially if that is their natural aptitude, and though they are a minority, there are women with a tendency to systemize. Inspiring children at an early age is key, and perhaps we need to put technology in a more social context. We've seen how the computer can take on a whole new meaning when you look at it as a social medium, not just a mechanical one.

          So you do still think that hormonal differences are key and it isn't all about social conditioning?
          Well, we've been trying to go a bit deeper into what might give rise to sex differences in behaviour and in the mind, and we've been looking at the hormone testosterone. Male foetuses produce ten times as much, and animal research suggests this hormone influences the way the brain develops. We've asked women who have amniocentesis (when a needle is introduced into the fluid which surround the baby during pregnancy) if we can test the fluid for levels of testosterone. We've found that the higher the level of testosterone, the stronger the child's later interest in systems, and the lower their interest in empathy and people. But science does not yet have all the answers -- we need more research!
          Simon Baron Cohen and Belinda Parmar


          On a different note~

          RADICAL FEMINIST CONFERENCE :
          All of this discussion comes on the heels of a radical feminist conference which was to be held in the UK, and which lost it’s booking at the original venue, Conway Hall in London. The venue’s administration issued the following statement when they cancelled the radical feminists’ booking.
          “We had sought assurances that the organizers would allow access to all, in order to enable the event to proceed at the venue. We also expressed concern that particular speakers would need to be made aware that whilst welcoming progressive thinking and debate, Conway Hall seeks to uphold inclusivity in respect of both legal obligations and as a principle.”[1]
          Apparently these particular radical feminists subscribe to a doctrine called womyn-born-womyn, in which only human beings with double-x chromosomal sexual identity are ever to be allowed into conferences, meeting spaces, and so on.
          Adhering to an ideological enthusiasm for eugenics, child abuse and publishing fantasies of sexually targeted murder apparently won’t get you booted from a conference centre booking. Excluding self-identified transexual women from your conference though, that’s going too far. Ha!

          I guess you can dress like a chicken, cluck like a chicken but in their eyes you're not a chicken.

           
          Brad
          Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur


          From: hibbsa <hibbsa@...>
          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 4:58 AM
          Subject: [evol-psych] Re: News: Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and Democrats

           
          Brad - if you believe men and women have different brains, do you then believe transexualism is a real condition (man or woman with opposite sex brains)?

          I only ask because one of the really funny things about the nature/nurture dived, that I think really shows off the politics and ideology on both sides, is that the 'right' believe in Nature, but typically refuse to accept homosexuality and transexualism are Nature, but instread Nurture. While the 'left' insist in Nurture, but for homosexuality and transexualism make an exception in calling it Nature. What a LOL!

          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Brad <devilboy6x9@...> wrote:
          >
          > They just can't help it: Simon Baron Cohen
          >
          > What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences between the male and female brain, says Simon Baron-Cohen. And they could help
          > explain conditions such as autism Do you have a male or female brain?
          > http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/apr/17/research.highereducation
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          > Brad Beal
          > Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Julienne <julienne@...>
          > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:10 PM
          > Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: News: Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and Democrats
          >
          >
          >  
          > At 09:19 AM 11/2/2012, clarence_sonny_williams wrote:
          > >This is embarrassing to neuroscience. Males and females are more
          > >divergent in how their brains process socially salient information than
          > >Democrats and Republicans...and there is no mistaking their identity.
          > >Using 24 undergraduates at USC who self-identify as Republican or
          > >Democrat means the study begins with a fuzzy population. And then we
          > >use a fuzzy measurement of the brain's "hot spots" of those "fuzzily
          > >segmented" subjects? Worthless!
          >
          > Well, okay - but, Sonny, no neuroscientist is very sure yet of the
          > so-called differences between generic male and female brains.
          >
          > We have to start somewhere...
          >
          > Julienne
          >
          > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
          > ><stonjek@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and
          > >Democrats
          > > > November 1st, 2012 in Neuroscience
          > > >
          >
          > The selection of a Republican candidate for the presidency of this
          > globalized and expansive empire is - and I say this seriously - the
          > greatest competition of idiocy and ignorance that has ever been.
          > Fidel Castro. January 2012
          >



        • james kohl
          From: Brad They just can t help it: Simon Baron Cohen What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences between the
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 4, 2012
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            From: Brad <devilboy6x9@...>
            They just can't help it: Simon Baron Cohen
            What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences between the male and female brain, says Simon Baron-Cohen. And they could help explain conditions such as autism Do you have a male or female brain?

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/apr/17/research.highereducation

             
            Brad Beal
            Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur
            ---------------------------------------------------

            JK:
            Before this thread degrades further (e.g., via the inclusion of reports of sex differences from nearly a decade ago), I will add that recent reports indicate microRNAs are environmental determinants of sex-specific epigenetic effects of life histories. They determine the phenotype of organisms at the post-transcriptional and translational level, which is required to link the sensory environment to behavior in species from microbes to man.

            When Julienne says that "...no neuroscientist is very sure yet of the so-called differences between generic male and female brains" she exposes her ignorance of what is known, although most of that is unknown to people like Clarence "Sonny" Williams because it has not yet been published in any of the textbooks he reads in attempts to convince others he understands anything about neuroscience. He may be qualified to teach others about non-existent domain-specific mental modules, but he has no business commenting on what is known or unknown about the neuroscience of brain differences. 

            In the context of how brains process socially salient information, it is clear that adaptive evolution ensured the primary salience of nutrient chemicals associated with what we call food odors because they are essential to individual survival. In the same context it is equally clear that the salience of social odors we call pheromones are essential to species survival via their control of reproduction in species from microbes to man. Nutrient chemicals and pheromones epigenetically effect brain development that includes sex differences. Thus, if discussion of what is known about brain differences continues, it should continue in the context of adaptive evolution -- if only because data supports what is known, and also because what's known about evolutionary theory is that it explains nothing about the development of sex differences in the brain. 

             
            James V. Kohl
            Medical laboratory scientist (ASCP)
            Independent researcher
            Kohl, J.V. (2012) Human pheromones and food odors: epigenetic influences on the socioaffective nature of evolved behaviors. Socioaffective Neuroscience & Psychology, 2: 17338.





            From: Julienne <julienne@...>
            To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:10 PM
            Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: News: Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and Democrats

             
            At 09:19 AM 11/2/2012, clarence_sonny_williams wrote:
            >This is embarrassing to neuroscience. Males and females are more
            >divergent in how their brains process socially salient information than
            >Democrats and Republicans...and there is no mistaking their identity.
            >Using 24 undergraduates at USC who self-identify as Republican or
            >Democrat means the study begins with a fuzzy population. And then we
            >use a fuzzy measurement of the brain's "hot spots" of those "fuzzily
            >segmented" subjects? Worthless!

            Well, okay - but, Sonny, no neuroscientist is very sure yet of the
            so-called differences between generic male and female brains.

            We have to start somewhere...

            Julienne

            >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
            ><stonjek@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and
            >Democrats
            > > November 1st, 2012 in Neuroscience
            > >

            The selection of a Republican candidate for the presidency of this
            globalized and expansive empire is - and I say this seriously - the
            greatest competition of idiocy and ignorance that has ever been.
            Fidel Castro. January 2012



          • clarence_sonny_williams
            Hibbsa, I m not sure of your position, but there is general agreement among neuroscientists that the female and male brains are different in several important
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 4, 2012
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              Hibbsa,

              I'm not sure of your position, but there is general agreement among
              neuroscientists that the female and male brains are different in several
              important respects, both physiologically and functionally.

              I believe it is misleading to attribute religiously-based beliefs to
              either side of the American political divide, right and left. The
              religious right was once firmly implanted within the left-leading
              Democrat party. Today, they are aligned with the Republican party
              because of its general preference for local rather than federal control
              over most government affairs.

              --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "hibbsa" <hibbsa@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Brad - if you believe men and women have different brains, do you then
              believe transexualism is a real condition (man or woman with opposite
              sex brains)?
              >
              > I only ask because one of the really funny things about the
              nature/nurture dived, that I think really shows off the politics and
              ideology on both sides, is that the 'right' believe in Nature, but
              typically refuse to accept homosexuality and transexualism are Nature,
              but instread Nurture. While the 'left' insist in Nurture, but for
              homosexuality and transexualism make an exception in calling it Nature.
              What a LOL!
              >
              > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Brad devilboy6x9@
              wrote:
              > >
              > > They just can't help it: Simon Baron Cohen
              > >
              > > What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences
              between the male and female brain, says Simon Baron-Cohen. And they
              could help
              > > explain conditions such as autism Do you have a male or female
              brain?
              > >
              http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/apr/17/research.highereducation
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Â
              > > Brad Beal
              > > Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: Julienne julienne@
              > > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:10 PM
              > > Subject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: News: Neuroscience reveals brain
              differences between Republicans and Democrats
              > >
              > >
              > > Â
              > > At 09:19 AM 11/2/2012, clarence_sonny_williams wrote:
              > > >This is embarrassing to neuroscience. Males and females are more
              > > >divergent in how their brains process socially salient information
              than
              > > >Democrats and Republicans...and there is no mistaking their
              identity.
              > > >Using 24 undergraduates at USC who self-identify as Republican or
              > > >Democrat means the study begins with a fuzzy population. And then
              we
              > > >use a fuzzy measurement of the brain's "hot spots" of those
              "fuzzily
              > > >segmented" subjects? Worthless!
              > >
              > > Well, okay - but, Sonny, no neuroscientist is very sure yet of the
              > > so-called differences between generic male and female brains.
              > >
              > > We have to start somewhere...
              > >
              > > Julienne
              > >
              > > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl
              Stonjek"
              > > ><stonjek@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Neuroscience reveals brain differences between Republicans and
              > > >Democrats
              > > > > November 1st, 2012 in Neuroscience
              > > > >
              > >
              > > The selection of a Republican candidate for the presidency of this
              > > globalized and expansive empire is - and I say this seriously - the
              > > greatest competition of idiocy and ignorance that has ever been.
              > > Fidel Castro. January 2012
              > >
              >
            • hibbsa
              Sonny - I don t know if I d call it a position my end, but certainly what you say certainly adds up for me. I was talking about Left/Right at the level of the
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 4, 2012
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                Sonny - I don't know if I'd call it a position my end, but certainly
                what you say certainly adds up for me.

                I was talking about Left/Right at the level of the Nature/Nurture
                debate...not politics. Sorry for any confusion caused about that.

                --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com,
                "clarence_sonny_williams" <clarencew@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hibbsa,
                >
                > I'm not sure of your position, but there is general agreement among
                > neuroscientists that the female and male brains are different in
                several
                > important respects, both physiologically and functionally.
                >
                > I believe it is misleading to attribute religiously-based beliefs to
                > either side of the American political divide, right and left. The
                > religious right was once firmly implanted within the left-leading
                > Democrat party. Today, they are aligned with the Republican party
                > because of its general preference for local rather than federal
                control
                > over most government affairs.
                >
                <snip>
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