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News: Hungry mothers give birth to more daughters

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  • Robert Karl Stonjek
    Hungry mothers give birth to more daughters Male to female birth ratios fell during the Chinese Great Leap Forward famine. Zoë Corbyn 28 March 2012 Numbers of
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 28, 2012
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      Hungry mothers give birth to more daughters

      Male to female birth ratios fell during the Chinese Great Leap Forward famine.

      Zoë Corbyn
       
      28 March 2012
      Numbers of girls dropped more slowly than those of boys in China during the famine of the early 1960s.

      Keren Su/Getty Images

      When food is in short supply women are more likely to bear daughters than sons, suggests an analysis of one of the most disastrous famines in modern history.

      Shige Song, a sociologist and demographer at the City University of New York, analysed data from more than 300,000 Chinese women who gave birth between September 1929 and July 1982. This period included the Great Leap Forward famine, which resulted in millions of deaths and was linked to efforts by Chinese leaders to boost industrial productivity by means including ordering workers off the land.

      Starting just over one year after the beginning of the famine, Song found a sharp dip in the proportion of boys being born — falling from 109 boys born for every 100 girls in April 1960 to 104 boys for every 100 girls by October 1963, about two years after the famine ended. The ratio did not return to pre-famine levels until around July 1965.

      Song's analysis, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B1 today, supports the sex-ratio adjustment hypothesis — the idea that species alter the sex of their offspring in response to environmental conditions. Unhealthy, poorly nourished males tend to have fewer offspring than similarly undernourished females, so the hypothesis predicts that, to keep populations up in times of famine, women should give birth to fewer boys.

      Studies in animals including red deer2 have already lent weight to the hypothesis, but until now the evidence in humans has been “much less clear”, says Song. Findings from earlier studies of famines — the 1944–45 Dutch Hunger Winter3, 4 and the severe food shortages during the siege of Leningrad in the Soviet Union in 19425 — have been inconsistent.

      Song thinks that he was able to observe the effect clearly in the Chinese famine because the food shortage was more severe, ran for longer and, crucially, affected many more people than previously studied famines, giving him a much larger data set to work with. The analysis also gives an insight into the time required to trigger the effect — about a year at minimum, he says.

      Reasons for the ratio

      The data that Song analysed were collected in 1982 as part of the national one-per-thousand-population fertility survey by the Chinese State Family Planning Commission, which asked women about their entire childbearing history. The survey's accuracy depends on the women reporting the sex of their children correctly, notes Song, but he thinks that they would be unlikely to forget or lie about such a thing.

      Song adds that China's one-child policy — which was introduced in 1978 and has skewed sex ratio at birth to favour boys, who bring greater economic advantage to their families — is unlikely to have influenced the results. The policy was in its very early stages when the data were collected, he says, and ultrasound technology that would allow parents to learn the sex of the baby before birth and opt for selective abortion was not widely available at the time.

      “I am convinced that the change of sex ratio shown in the study is causally related to famine exposure,” says Cheng Huang, a demographer and population economist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. However, malnutrition may not be the sole cause of the dip, he says. Increased psychological and physical stress were also “well documented” during the Great Leap Forward campaign, he says, and may have had a role.

      “At this point we don't know the reason for the dip,” says Lambert Lumey, an epidemiologist at Columbia University in New York. He suggests that Song could make a stronger case if, rather than looking only at the population as a whole, he also examined male–female birth ratios in specific Chinese regions that were exposed to the famine at different times.

      Song hopes to explore that avenue using data from a 1988 survey. That study should also shed light on how the one-child policy has affected natural patterns, he says.

      Nature
      doi :10.1038/nature.2012.10331

      References

      1. Song, S. Proc. R. Soc. B http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2012.0320 (2012).

      2. Clutton-Brock, T. H., Albon, S. D. & Guinness, F. E. Nature 308, 358–360 (1984).

      3. Stein, A. D., Zybert, P. A. & Lumey, L. H. Proc. R. Soc. B 271, S138–S141 (2004).

      4. Roseboom, T. J., et al. Mol. Cell. Endocrinol. 185, 93–98 (2001).

      5. Antonov, A. D. J. Pediatr. 30, 250–259 (1947).

      Source: Nature
      http://www.nature.com/news/hungry-mothers-give-birth-to-more-daughters-1.10331
       
      Posted by
      Robert Karl Stonjek
    • Edgar Owen
      Serves me right. I shouldn t have fed my ex so well! If I d starved her some I might have a daughter instead of 3 sons! ... Edgar ... Serves me right. I
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 28, 2012
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        Serves me right. I shouldn't have fed my ex so well! If I'd starved her some I might have a daughter instead of 3 sons!
        :-)

        Edgar



        On Mar 28, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:

         

        Numbers of girls dropped more slowly than those of boys in China during the famine of the early 1960s.

        Keren Su/Getty Images

        When food is in short supply women are more likely to bear daughters than sons, suggests an analysis of one of the most disastrous famines in modern history.

        Shige Song, a sociologist and demographer at the City University of New York, analysed data from more than 300,000 Chinese women who gave birth between September 1929 and July 1982. This period included the Great Leap Forward famine, which resulted in millions of deaths and was linked to efforts by Chinese leaders to boost industrial productivity by means including ordering workers off the land.

        Starting just over one year after the beginning of the famine, Song found a sharp dip in the proportion of boys being born — falling from 109 boys born for every 100 girls in April 1960 to 104 boys for every 100 girls by October 1963, about two years after the famine ended. The ratio did not return to pre-famine levels until around July 1965.

        Song's analysis, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B1 today, supports the sex-ratio adjustment hypothesis — the idea that species alter the sex of their offspring in response to environmental conditions. Unhealthy, poorly nourished males tend to have fewer offspring than similarly undernourished females, so the hypothesis predicts that, to keep populations up in times of famine, women should give birth to fewer boys.

        Studies in animals including red deer2 have already lent weight to the hypothesis, but until now the evidence in humans has been “much less clear”, says Song. Findings from earlier studies of famines — the 1944–45 Dutch Hunger Winter3, 4 and the severe food shortages during the siege of Leningrad in the Soviet Union in 19425 — have been inconsistent.

        Song thinks that he was able to observe the effect clearly in the Chinese famine because the food shortage was more severe, ran for longer and, crucially, affected many more people than previously studied famines, giving him a much larger data set to work with. The analysis also gives an insight into the time required to trigger the effect — about a year at minimum, he says.

        Reasons for the ratio

        The data that Song analysed were collected in 1982 as part of the national one-per-thousand-population fertility survey by the Chinese State Family Planning Commission, which asked women about their entire childbearing history. The survey's accuracy depends on the women reporting the sex of their children correctly, notes Song, but he thinks that they would be unlikely to forget or lie about such a thing.

        Song adds that China's one-child policy — which was introduced in 1978 and has skewed sex ratio at birth to favour boys, who bring greater economic advantage to their families — is unlikely to have influenced the results. The policy was in its very early stages when the data were collected, he says, and ultrasound technology that would allow parents to learn the sex of the baby before birth and opt for selective abortion was not widely available at the time.

        “I am convinced that the change of sex ratio shown in the study is causally related to famine exposure,” says Cheng Huang, a demographer and population economist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. However, malnutrition may not be the sole cause of the dip, he says. Increased psychological and physical stress were also “well documented” during the Great Leap Forward campaign, he says, and may have had a role.

        “At this point we don't know the reason for the dip,” says Lambert Lumey, an epidemiologist at Columbia University in New York. He suggests that Song could make a stronger case if, rather than looking only at the population as a whole, he also examined male–female birth ratios in specific Chinese regions that were exposed to the famine at different times.

        Song hopes to explore that avenue using data from a 1988 survey. That study should also shed light on how the one-child policy has affected natural patterns, he says.

        Nature
        doi :10.1038/nature.2012.10331

        References

        1. Song, S. Proc. R. Soc. B http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2012.0320 (2012).

        2. Clutton-Brock, T. H., Albon, S. D. & Guinness, F. E. Nature 308, 358360 (1984).

        3. Stein, A. D., Zybert, P. A. & Lumey, L. H. Proc. R. Soc. B 271, S138S141 (2004).

        4. Roseboom, T. J., et al. Mol. Cell. Endocrinol. 185, 9398 (2001).

        5. Antonov, A. D. J. Pediatr. 30, 250259 (1947).

        Source: Nature
        http://www.nature.com/news/hungry-mothers-give-birth-to-more-daughters-1.10331
         
        Posted by
        Robert Karl Stonjek


      • merle lester
        what do you mean you fed her edgar? ..was she disabled? merle ...
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 29, 2012
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          what do you mean you fed her edgar?

          ..was she disabled?

          merle

          On 29/03/2012, at 11:36 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

          >
          >
          > Serves me right. I shouldn't have fed my ex so well! If I'd starved her some I might have a daughter instead of 3 sons!
          > :-)
          >
          > Edgar
          >
          >
          >
          > On Mar 28, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> Numbers of girls dropped more slowly than those of boys in China during the famine of the early 1960s.
          >> Keren Su/Getty Images
          >>
          <snip>
        • O'Dea
          Inconsistency in evidence: http://julianodea.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/question-of-trivers-willard-hypoth esis.html Julian O Dea Canberra, Australia From:
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 29, 2012
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            Inconsistency in evidence:

             

            http://julianodea.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/question-of-trivers-willard-hypothesis.html

             

            Julian O’Dea

            Canberra, Australia

             

            From: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com [mailto:evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen
            Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2012 11:36 AM
            To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Hungry mothers give birth to more daughters

             

             

            Serves me right. I shouldn't have fed my ex so well! If I'd starved her some I might have a daughter instead of 3 sons!

            :-)

             

            Edgar

             

             

             

            On Mar 28, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:



             

             

            Numbers of girls dropped more slowly than those of boys in China during the famine of the early 1960s.

            Keren Su/Getty Images

            When food is in short supply women are more likely to bear daughters than sons, suggests an analysis of one of the most disastrous famines in modern history.

            Shige Song, a sociologist and demographer at the City University of New York, analysed data from more than 300,000 Chinese women who gave birth between September 1929 and July 1982. This period included the Great Leap Forward famine, which resulted in millions of deaths and was linked to efforts by Chinese leaders to boost industrial productivity by means including ordering workers off the land.

            Starting just over one year after the beginning of the famine, Song found a sharp dip in the proportion of boys being born — falling from 109 boys born for every 100 girls in April 1960 to 104 boys for every 100 girls by October 1963, about two years after the famine ended. The ratio did not return to pre-famine levels until around July 1965.

            Song's analysis, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B1 today, supports the sex-ratio adjustment hypothesis — the idea that species alter the sex of their offspring in response to environmental conditions. Unhealthy, poorly nourished males tend to have fewer offspring than similarly undernourished females, so the hypothesis predicts that, to keep populations up in times of famine, women should give birth to fewer boys.

            Studies in animals including red deer2 have already lent weight to the hypothesis, but until now the evidence in humans has been “much less clear”, says Song. Findings from earlier studies of famines — the 1944–45 Dutch Hunger Winter3, 4 and the severe food shortages during the siege of Leningrad in the Soviet Union in 19425 — have been inconsistent.

            Song thinks that he was able to observe the effect clearly in the Chinese famine because the food shortage was more severe, ran for longer and, crucially, affected many more people than previously studied famines, giving him a much larger data set to work with. The analysis also gives an insight into the time required to trigger the effect — about a year at minimum, he says.

            Reasons for the ratio

            The data that Song analysed were collected in 1982 as part of the national one-per-thousand-population fertility survey by the Chinese State Family Planning Commission, which asked women about their entire childbearing history. The survey's accuracy depends on the women reporting the sex of their children correctly, notes Song, but he thinks that they would be unlikely to forget or lie about such a thing.

            Song adds that China's one-child policy — which was introduced in 1978 and has skewed sex ratio at birth to favour boys, who bring greater economic advantage to their families — is unlikely to have influenced the results. The policy was in its very early stages when the data were collected, he says, and ultrasound technology that would allow parents to learn the sex of the baby before birth and opt for selective abortion was not widely available at the time.

            “I am convinced that the change of sex ratio shown in the study is causally related to famine exposure,” says Cheng Huang, a demographer and population economist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. However, malnutrition may not be the sole cause of the dip, he says. Increased psychological and physical stress were also “well documented” during the Great Leap Forward campaign, he says, and may have had a role.

            “At this point we don't know the reason for the dip,” says Lambert Lumey, an epidemiologist at Columbia University in New York. He suggests that Song could make a stronger case if, rather than looking only at the population as a whole, he also examined male–female birth ratios in specific Chinese regions that were exposed to the famine at different times.

            Song hopes to explore that avenue using data from a 1988 survey. That study should also shed light on how the one-child policy has affected natural patterns, he says.

            Nature

            doi:10.1038/nature.2012.10331

            References

            1.       Song, S. Proc. R. Soc. B http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2012.0320 (2012).

            2.      Clutton-Brock, T. H., Albon, S. D. & Guinness, F. E. Nature 308, 358360 (1984).

            3.      Stein, A. D., Zybert, P. A. & Lumey, L. H. Proc. R. Soc. B 271, S138S141 (2004).

            4.      Roseboom, T. J., et al. Mol. Cell. Endocrinol. 185, 9398 (2001).

            5.      Antonov, A. D. J. Pediatr. 30, 250259 (1947).

            Source: Nature
            http://www.nature.com/news/hungry-mothers-give-birth-to-more-daughters-1.10331

             

            Posted by
            Robert Karl Stonjek

             

             

          • Anna
            LOL! Merle, a good one! I think that man feeding his woman is a male fantasy about ideal marriage. Anna ... From: merle lester Sent: Thursday, March 29,
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 29, 2012
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              LOL!
              Merle, a good one! I think that "man feeding his woman" is a male fantasy
              about ideal marriage.
              Anna

              -----Original Message-----
              From: merle lester
              Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:11 AM
              To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Hungry mothers give birth to more daughters

              what do you mean you fed her edgar?

              ..was she disabled?

              merle

              On 29/03/2012, at 11:36 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

              >
              >
              > Serves me right. I shouldn't have fed my ex so well! If I'd starved her
              > some I might have a daughter instead of 3 sons!
              > :-)
              >
              > Edgar
              >
              >
              >
              > On Mar 28, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
              >
              >>
              >> Numbers of girls dropped more slowly than those of boys in China during
              >> the famine of the early 1960s.
              >> Keren Su/Getty Images
              >>
              <snip>


              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links





              -----
              No virus found in this message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4900 - Release Date: 03/28/12
            • Edgar Owen
              No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn t that what a man feeding a woman means? ... Edgar
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 29, 2012
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                No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                :-)

                Edgar



                On Mar 29, 2012, at 3:11 AM, merle lester wrote:

                > what do you mean you fed her edgar?
                >
                > ..was she disabled?
                >
                > merle
                >
                > On 29/03/2012, at 11:36 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
                >
                >>
                >>
                >> Serves me right. I shouldn't have fed my ex so well! If I'd starved her some I might have a daughter instead of 3 sons!
                >> :-)
                >>
                >> Edgar
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> On Mar 28, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
                >>
                >>>
                >>> Numbers of girls dropped more slowly than those of boys in China during the famine of the early 1960s.
                >>> Keren Su/Getty Images
                >>>
                > <snip>
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • merle lester
                goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle ...
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 29, 2012
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                  goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                  On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                  > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                  > :-)
                  >
                  > Edgar

                  <snip>
                • Anna
                  Edgar, was she a good poet? Did she dedicate her book to you? Anna From: Edgar Owen Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 7:20 AM To:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 29, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Edgar, was she a good poet? Did she dedicate her book to you?
                    Anna
                     
                    Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 7:20 AM
                    Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Hungry mothers give birth to more daughters
                     
                     

                    No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                    :-)

                    Edgar

                    On Mar 29, 2012, at 3:11 AM, merle lester wrote:

                    > what do you mean you fed her edgar?
                    >
                    > ..was
                    she disabled?
                    >
                    > merle
                    >
                    > On 29/03/2012, at 11:36
                    AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
                    >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Serves me
                    right. I shouldn't have fed my ex so well! If I'd starved her some I might have a daughter instead of 3 sons!
                    >> :-)
                    >>
                    >>
                    Edgar
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On Mar 28, 2012, at
                    7:50 PM, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
                    >>
                    >>>
                    >>> Numbers of girls dropped more slowly than those of boys in
                    China during the famine of the early 1960s.
                    >>> Keren Su/Getty
                    Images
                    >>>
                    > <snip>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups
                    Links
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    No virus found in this message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4902 - Release Date: 03/29/12

                  • Edgar Owen
                    Merle, Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 30, 2012
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                      Merle,

                      Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake being young and naive but if I had to do it over again I'd conduct a much wider search for a much more compatible long term wife. 

                      Edgar



                      On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:52 PM, merle lester wrote:

                       

                      goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                      On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                      > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                      > :-)
                      >
                      > Edgar

                      <snip>

                      TODAY(Beta) Powered by Yahoo!

                      Seven new products that fight acne
                      For great skin, exfoliate daily with this gentle $6.99 drugstore item.


                    • merle lester
                      young folk wait till they are in their 30 s before tying down to the soul mate . ..in 1966 i lived in sin with barry...my still sinful hubby now. .now every
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 30, 2012
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                         young folk wait till they are in their 30's before tying down to the "soul mate".
                        ..in 1966 i lived in "sin" with barry...my still sinful hubby now.
                        .now every tom dick and janice try before they" buy" and live in "sin".
                        .i was ahead of my time...i made a choice.
                        ..you do not have being young as an excuse..you are supposedly intelligent i was under the impression you were not naive either.
                        .but saying that you may have been sucked in with lust..never mind.
                        .water under the bridge now edgar
                        ..better luck next round..think before you leap!
                        ..cheers merle




                         

                        On 31/03/2012, at 12:09 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:



                        Merle,

                        Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake being young and naive but if I had to do it over again I'd conduct a much wider search for a much more compatible long term wife. 

                        Edgar



                        On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:52 PM, merle lester wrote:

                        goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                        On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                        > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                        > :-)
                        > 
                        > Edgar

                        <snip>

                        TODAY(Beta)  Powered by Yahoo!

                        Seven new products that fight acne
                        For great skin, exfoliate daily with this gentle $6.99 drugstore item.





                      • devilboy6x9@yahoo.com
                        Many men are no longer interested in marriage. With divorce rates soaring and laws leaning far to the woman s advantage those wannabe s will be waiting long
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 30, 2012
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                          Many men are no longer interested in marriage. With divorce rates soaring and laws leaning far to the woman's advantage those wannabe's will be waiting long after 30.

                          Exquisite Corpse 77
                          Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                          --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                          From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                          Subject: [evol-psych] mating game
                          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 7:41 PM

                           

                           young folk wait till they are in their 30's before tying down to the "soul mate".
                          ..in 1966 i lived in "sin" with barry...my still sinful hubby now.
                          .now every tom dick and janice try before they" buy" and live in "sin".
                          .i was ahead of my time...i made a choice.
                          ..you do not have being young as an excuse..you are supposedly intelligent i was under the impression you were not naive either.
                          .but saying that you may have been sucked in with lust..never mind.
                          .water under the bridge now edgar
                          ..better luck next round..think before you leap!
                          ..cheers merle




                           

                          On 31/03/2012, at 12:09 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:



                          Merle,

                          Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake being young and naive but if I had to do it over again I'd conduct a much wider search for a much more compatible long term wife. 

                          Edgar



                          On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:52 PM, merle lester wrote:

                          goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                          On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                          > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                          > :-)
                          > 
                          > Edgar

                          <snip>

                          TODAY(Beta) 




                        • merle lester
                          works both ways sugar plum..the ladies do not want you blokes either...merle ... works both ways sugar plum..the ladies do not want you blokes either...merle
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 30, 2012
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                             works both ways sugar plum..the ladies do not want you blokes either...merle




                            On 31/03/2012, at 11:51 AM, devilboy6x9@... wrote:



                            Many men are no longer interested in marriage. With divorce rates soaring and laws leaning far to the woman's advantage those wannabe's will be waiting long after 30.

                            Exquisite Corpse 77
                            Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                            --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                            From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                            Subject: [evol-psych] mating game
                            To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 7:41 PM


                             young folk wait till they are in their 30's before tying down to the "soul mate".
                            ..in 1966 i lived in "sin" with barry...my still sinful hubby now.
                            .now every tom dick and janice try before they" buy" and live in "sin".
                            .i was ahead of my time...i made a choice.
                            ..you do not have being young as an excuse..you are supposedly intelligent i was under the impression you were not naive either.
                            .but saying that you may have been sucked in with lust..never mind.
                            .water under the bridge now edgar
                            ..better luck next round..think before you leap!
                            ..cheers merle




                             

                            On 31/03/2012, at 12:09 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:



                            Merle,

                            Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake being young and naive but if I had to do it over again I'd conduct a much wider search for a much more compatible long term wife. 

                            Edgar



                            On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:52 PM, merle lester wrote:

                            goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                            On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                            > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                            > :-)
                            > 
                            > Edgar

                            <snip>

                            TODAY(Beta) 







                          • devilboy6x9@yahoo.com
                            Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn t be having this discussion It s always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 31, 2012
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                              Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion It's always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of marriage.

                              You'll never see in magazines or 'fairy tales' where getting married is goal oriented for males. Men don't skimming through bridal mags seeking out the perfect dress for their bride to wear. And even is some bloke does get coerced into getting married, on the slim chance he might be getting laid more often, that feeling wears off soon enough.
                               
                              I believe it was RAF who said that it wasn't always like this. There was a time when marriage was worth something and an important survival mechanism. It was a team effort where personal gain was set aside for the larger good.

                              ps:  Sorry if I misquoted RAF

                              Exquisite Corpse 77
                              Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                              --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                              From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                              Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                              To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 10:48 PM

                               

                               works both ways sugar plum..the ladies do not want you blokes either...merle




                              On 31/03/2012, at 11:51 AM, devilboy6x9@... wrote:



                              Many men are no longer interested in marriage. With divorce rates soaring and laws leaning far to the woman's advantage those wannabe's will be waiting long after 30.

                              Exquisite Corpse 77
                              Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                              --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                              From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                              Subject: [evol-psych] mating game
                              To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 7:41 PM


                               young folk wait till they are in their 30's before tying down to the "soul mate".
                              ..in 1966 i lived in "sin" with barry...my still sinful hubby now.
                              .now every tom dick and janice try before they" buy" and live in "sin".
                              .i was ahead of my time...i made a choice.
                              ..you do not have being young as an excuse..you are supposedly intelligent i was under the impression you were not naive either.
                              .but saying that you may have been sucked in with lust..never mind.
                              .water under the bridge now edgar
                              ..better luck next round..think before you leap!
                              ..cheers merle




                               

                              On 31/03/2012, at 12:09 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:



                              Merle,

                              Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake being young and naive but if I had to do it over again I'd conduct a much wider search for a much more compatible long term wife. 

                              Edgar



                              On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:52 PM, merle lester wrote:

                              goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                              On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                              > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                              > :-)
                              > 
                              > Edgar

                              <snip>

                              TODAY(Beta) 







                            • suepalam7@yahoo.co.uk
                              Matrimony isn t permanent . Both parties have a story . Isn t it time that putting up with someone is far worse than juSt ending it and being alone some times
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 31, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Matrimony isn't permanent . Both parties have a story . Isn't it time that putting up with someone is far worse than juSt ending it and being alone some times

                                Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on O2

                                From: devilboy6x9@...
                                Sender: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
                                To: <evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com>
                                ReplyTo: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game

                                 

                                Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion It's always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of marriage.

                                You'll never see in magazines or 'fairy tales' where getting married is goal oriented for males. Men don't skimming through bridal mags seeking out the perfect dress for their bride to wear. And even is some bloke does get coerced into getting married, on the slim chance he might be getting laid more often, that feeling wears off soon enough.
                                 
                                I believe it was RAF who said that it wasn't always like this. There was a time when marriage was worth something and an important survival mechanism. It was a team effort where personal gain was set aside for the larger good.

                                ps:  Sorry if I misquoted RAF

                                Exquisite Corpse 77
                                Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                                From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                                Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 10:48 PM

                                 

                                 works both ways sugar plum..the ladies do not want you blokes either...merle




                                On 31/03/2012, at 11:51 AM, devilboy6x9@... wrote:



                                Many men are no longer interested in marriage. With divorce rates soaring and laws leaning far to the woman's advantage those wannabe's will be waiting long after 30.

                                Exquisite Corpse 77
                                Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                                From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                                Subject: [evol-psych] mating game
                                To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 7:41 PM


                                 young folk wait till they are in their 30's before tying down to the "soul mate".
                                ..in 1966 i lived in "sin" with barry...my still sinful hubby now.
                                .now every tom dick and janice try before they" buy" and live in "sin".
                                .i was ahead of my time...i made a choice.
                                ..you do not have being young as an excuse..you are supposedly intelligent i was under the impression you were not naive either.
                                .but saying that you may have been sucked in with lust..never mind.
                                .water under the bridge now edgar
                                ..better luck next round..think before you leap!
                                ..cheers merle




                                 

                                On 31/03/2012, at 12:09 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:



                                Merle,

                                Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake being young and naive but if I had to do it over again I'd conduct a much wider search for a much more compatible long term wife. 

                                Edgar



                                On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:52 PM, merle lester wrote:

                                goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                                On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                                > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                                > :-)
                                > 
                                > Edgar

                                <snip>

                                TODAY(Beta) 







                              • sue palam
                                merle your mate may be your sole mate but how does one know who is sole mated when soles are not or mated when they die or exist before they are born are you
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 31, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  merle your mate may be your sole mate but how does one know who is sole mated when soles are not or mated when they die or exist before they are born are you talking off your head
                                  ________________________________
                                  From: "suepalam7@..." <suepalam7@...>
                                  To: "evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com" <evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2012, 13:27
                                  Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game

                                  Matrimony isn't permanent . Both parties have a story . Isn't it time that putting up with someone is far worse than juSt ending it and being alone some times

                                  Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on O2
                                  ________________________________

                                  From: devilboy6x9@...
                                  Sender: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
                                  To: <evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com>
                                  ReplyTo: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                   
                                  Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion It's always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of marriage.

                                  You'll never see in magazines or 'fairy tales' where getting married is goal oriented for males. Men don't skimming through bridal mags seeking out the perfect dress for their bride to wear. And even is some bloke does get coerced into getting married, on the slim chance he might be getting laid more often, that feeling wears off soon enough.
                                   
                                  I believe it was RAF who said that it wasn't always like this. There was a time when marriage was worth something and an important survival mechanism. It was a team effort where personal gain was set aside for the larger good.

                                  ps:  Sorry if I misquoted RAF

                                  Exquisite Corpse 77
                                  Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                  --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:


                                  >From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                                  >Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                  >To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 10:48 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  <Snip>
                                • Anna
                                  Good question. What bars do we set on evaluation of “soulmating”? Is there something that we must forgive to maintain the status? Or it is ideal all the
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 31, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Good question. What bars do we set on  evaluation of “soulmating”? Is there something that we must forgive to maintain the status?
                                    Or it is ideal all the way?
                                    Anna
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    From: sue palam
                                    Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:55 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                     
                                     

                                    merle your mate may be your sole mate but how does one know who is sole mated when soles are not or mated when they die or exist before they are born are you talking off your head
                                    ________________________________
                                    From: "mailto:suepalam7%40yahoo.co.uk" <mailto:suepalam7%40yahoo.co.uk>
                                    To: "mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2012, 13:27
                                    Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game

                                    Matrimony isn't permanent . Both parties have a story . Isn't it time that putting up with someone is far worse than juSt ending it and being alone some times

                                    Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on O2
                                    ________________________________

                                    From: mailto:devilboy6x9%40yahoo.com
                                    Sender: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
                                    To: <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    ReplyTo: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                     
                                    Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion It's always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of marriage.

                                    You'll never see in magazines or 'fairy tales' where getting married is goal oriented for males. Men don't skimming through bridal mags seeking out the perfect dress for their bride to wear. And even is some bloke does get coerced into getting married, on the slim chance he might be getting laid more often, that feeling wears off soon enough.
                                     
                                    I believe it was RAF who said that it wasn't always like this. There was a time when marriage was worth something and an important survival mechanism. It was a team effort where personal gain was set aside for the larger good.

                                    ps:  Sorry if I misquoted RAF

                                    Exquisite Corpse 77
                                    Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                    --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <mailto:bmlester%40tpg.com.au> wrote:

                                    >From: merle lester <
                                    href="mailto:bmlester%40tpg.com.au">mailto:bmlester%40tpg.com.au>
                                    >Subject:
                                    Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                    >To:
                                    href="mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com
                                    >Date:
                                    Friday, March 30, 2012, 10:48 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    <Snip>


                                    No virus found in this message.
                                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                    Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4906 - Release Date: 03/31/12

                                  • devilboy6x9@yahoo.com
                                    Cosmo tells all.. http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/relationship-advice/reach-soul-mate-status Exquisite Corpse 77 Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 31, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Cosmo tells all..
                                      http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/relationship-advice/reach-soul-mate-status

                                      Exquisite Corpse 77
                                      Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                      --- On Sat, 3/31/12, Anna <pantheon@...> wrote:

                                      From: Anna <pantheon@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                      To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Saturday, March 31, 2012, 7:43 PM

                                       

                                      Good question. What bars do we set on  evaluation of “soulmating”? Is there something that we must forgive to maintain the status?
                                      Or it is ideal all the way?
                                      Anna
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                      From: sue palam
                                      Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:55 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                       
                                       

                                      merle your mate may be your sole mate but how does one know who is sole mated when soles are not or mated when they die or exist before they are born are you talking off your head
                                      ________________________________
                                      From: "mailto:suepalam7%40yahoo.co.uk" <mailto:suepalam7%40yahoo.co.uk>
                                      To: "mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2012, 13:27
                                      Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game

                                      Matrimony isn't permanent . Both parties have a story . Isn't it time that putting up with someone is far worse than juSt ending it and being alone some times

                                      Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on O2
                                      ________________________________

                                      From: mailto:devilboy6x9%40yahoo.com
                                      Sender: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
                                      To: <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      ReplyTo: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                       
                                      Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion It's always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of marriage.

                                      You'll never see in magazines or 'fairy tales' where getting married is goal oriented for males. Men don't skimming through bridal mags seeking out the perfect dress for their bride to wear. And even is some bloke does get coerced into getting married, on the slim chance he might be getting laid more often, that feeling wears off soon enough.
                                       
                                      I believe it was RAF who said that it wasn't always like this. There was a time when marriage was worth something and an important survival mechanism. It was a team effort where personal gain was set aside for the larger good.

                                      ps:  Sorry if I misquoted RAF

                                      Exquisite Corpse 77
                                      Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                      --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <mailto:bmlester%40tpg.com.au> wrote:

                                      >From: merle lester <mailto:bmlester%40tpg.com.au>
                                      >Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                      >To: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com
                                      >Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 10:48 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      <Snip>


                                      No virus found in this message.
                                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                      Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4906 - Release Date: 03/31/12

                                    • merle lester
                                      did i say soul mate?.... goodness me don t jump to conclusions sue please..merle ... did i say soul mate?.... goodness me don t jump to conclusions sue
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 31, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                         did i say soul mate?.... goodness me don't jump to conclusions sue please..merle





                                        On 01/04/2012, at 9:43 AM, Anna wrote:



                                        Good question. What bars do we set on  evaluation of “soulmating”? Is there something that we must forgive to maintain the status?
                                        Or it is ideal all the way?
                                        Anna
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        From: sue palam
                                        Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:55 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                         

                                        merle your mate may be your sole mate but how does one know who is sole mated when soles are not or mated when they die or exist before they are born are you talking off your head
                                        ________________________________
                                        From: "mailto:suepalam7%40yahoo.co.uk" <mailto:suepalam7%40yahoo.co.uk>
                                        To: "mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com> 
                                        Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2012, 13:27
                                        Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game

                                        Matrimony isn't permanent . Both parties have a story . Isn't it time that putting up with someone is far worse than juSt ending it and being alone some times

                                        Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone on O2
                                        ________________________________

                                        From: mailto:devilboy6x9%40yahoo.com 
                                        Sender: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com 
                                        Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
                                        To: <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        ReplyTo: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com 
                                        Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                          
                                        Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion It's always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of marriage.

                                        You'll never see in magazines or 'fairy tales' where getting married is goal oriented for males. Men don't skimming through bridal mags seeking out the perfect dress for their bride to wear. And even is some bloke does get coerced into getting married, on the slim chance he might be getting laid more often, that feeling wears off soon enough.
                                         
                                        I believe it was RAF who said that it wasn't always like this. There was a time when marriage was worth something and an important survival mechanism. It was a team effort where personal gain was set aside for the larger good.

                                        ps:  Sorry if I misquoted RAF

                                        Exquisite Corpse 77
                                        Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                        --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <mailto:bmlester%40tpg.com.au> wrote:

                                        >From: merle lester <mailto:bmlester%40tpg.com.au>
                                        >Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                        >To: mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com
                                        >Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 10:48 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        <Snip>


                                        No virus found in this message.
                                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4906 - Release Date: 03/31/12




                                      • devilboy6x9@yahoo.com
                                        http://www.uwtv.org/video/player.aspx?dwrid=31141 Why Are Men and Women So Different? (David Barash and Judith Lipton)Why do male and female attitudes toward
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 31, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          http://www.uwtv.org/video/player.aspx?dwrid=31141

                                          Why Are Men and Women So Different? (David Barash and Judith Lipton)

                                          Why do male and female attitudes toward sex often collide? How do genes, hormones and culture affect these differences? Watch this 1998 Upon Reflection interview with David Barash, professor of psychology at the University of Washington, and Judith Lipton, psychiastrict, for an impassioned but informative look at their book “Making Sense of Sex: How Genes and Gender Influence Our Relationships” with host Ross Reynolds.

                                          Exquisite Corpse 77
                                          Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                          --- On Sat, 3/31/12, devilboy6x9@... <devilboy6x9@...> wrote:

                                          From: devilboy6x9@... <devilboy6x9@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Saturday, March 31, 2012, 8:18 AM

                                           

                                          Hardly merle, If that were truly the case we wouldn't be having this discussion It's always been women who want to marry and benefit MOST from legal bonds of marriage.

                                          You'll never see in magazines or 'fairy tales' where getting married is goal oriented for males. Men don't skimming through bridal mags seeking out the perfect dress for their bride to wear. And even is some bloke does get coerced into getting married, on the slim chance he might be getting laid more often, that feeling wears off soon enough.
                                           
                                          I believe it was RAF who said that it wasn't always like this. There was a time when marriage was worth something and an important survival mechanism. It was a team effort where personal gain was set aside for the larger good.

                                          ps:  Sorry if I misquoted RAF

                                          Exquisite Corpse 77
                                          Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                          --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                                          From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [evol-psych] mating game
                                          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 10:48 PM

                                           

                                           works both ways sugar plum..the ladies do not want you blokes either...merle




                                          On 31/03/2012, at 11:51 AM, devilboy6x9@... wrote:



                                          Many men are no longer interested in marriage. With divorce rates soaring and laws leaning far to the woman's advantage those wannabe's will be waiting long after 30.

                                          Exquisite Corpse 77
                                          Chance Favors The Prepared Mind~ L Pasteur

                                          --- On Fri, 3/30/12, merle lester <bmlester@...> wrote:

                                          From: merle lester <bmlester@...>
                                          Subject: [evol-psych] mating game
                                          To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Friday, March 30, 2012, 7:41 PM


                                           young folk wait till they are in their 30's before tying down to the "soul mate".
                                          ..in 1966 i lived in "sin" with barry...my still sinful hubby now.
                                          .now every tom dick and janice try before they" buy" and live in "sin".
                                          .i was ahead of my time...i made a choice.
                                          ..you do not have being young as an excuse..you are supposedly intelligent i was under the impression you were not naive either.
                                          .but saying that you may have been sucked in with lust..never mind.
                                          .water under the bridge now edgar
                                          ..better luck next round..think before you leap!
                                          ..cheers merle




                                           

                                          On 31/03/2012, at 12:09 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:



                                          Merle,

                                          Yes, most men (and women too) merely choose the most appealing mate from the immediately available choices in their social networks. I made that mistake being young and naive but if I had to do it over again I'd conduct a much wider search for a much more compatible long term wife. 

                                          Edgar



                                          On Mar 29, 2012, at 9:52 PM, merle lester wrote:

                                          goodness me where were you when i was out hunting for a mate..sucked in edgar... she certainly knew how to exploit you!..merle

                                          On 30/03/2012, at 12:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:

                                          > No Merle, I worked all day to make the money to buy her food while she wrote poetry and had fun.... Isn't that what a man feeding a woman means?
                                          > :-)
                                          > 
                                          > Edgar

                                          <snip>

                                          TODAY(Beta) 







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