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[evol-psych] Re: Breivik (the terrorist): Three generations of mental illness

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  • artemistroy
    It is you who are delusional. Once the schools are taken over by Islam, that s all they re going to get, religion. Besides, total suppression of religion has
    Message 1 of 80 , Jan 1, 2012
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      It is you who are delusional. Once the schools are taken over by Islam, that's all they're going to get, religion. Besides, total suppression of religion has never worked, just the opposite. The more it was suppressed, the more it was desired.

      Do you have a Plan B?

      Artemis

      --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
      >
      > Don,
      >
      > Right. The perpetuation of delusional belief systems is primarily due to a lack of good scientific education. US education won't touch the analysis of religious delusion, thus it persists unchallenged from other sources.
      >
      > That simply must be changed and religious delusion must be aggressively exposed as anti scientific all through public school.
      >
      > Edgar
      >
      >
      >
      > On Dec 31, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Don Zimmerman wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
      > >
      > >> You are pushing it a bit but it just proves that modern definitions of insanity like that applied to Breivik are political or more broadly cultural.
      > >>
      > >> This is why I point out that insanity means an inability to function effectively, not just a minority belief system. It's different than delusions such as believing in religious dogma. Deluded Christians in general are able to function reasonably well in society so the insanity label is best applied to people who can't. That would apply equally well in modern and ancient times to answer your question there.
      > >>
      > >> Delusion, as I continually have to point out, is not just believing something that isn't true, rather it's continuing to believe in something that has already been falsified such as the earth is only 6000 years old. People who believe that are clearly delusional in that respect but not insane in the sense that can't function at all. They just can't function in a scientific discussion or in areas where the delusional belief comes into play.
      > >
      > >
      > > DWZ:
      > > Yes, I agree that a distinction needs to be made between mental illness and what you call "delusions." For mental illness, inability to function seems to sum it up well. Sometimes that inability results from metabolic deficiencies with a genetic basis or brain injury and sometimes from atypical and destructive life experiences.
      > >
      > > I would say that "delusions" represent a kind of impaired cognitive development attributable to poor education for one reason or another or noxious childhood experiences. They can be destructive, but often people with delusions are supported by cohorts with similar delusions and function well in society. On the other hand, delusions and adherence to old, irrational beliefs can limit one's opportunities in modern society. People with delusions generally have healthy brains, but the informational input into memory storage has been "pathological," you could say.
      > >
      > > Best regards,
      > >
      > > Donald W. Zimmerman
      > > Vancouver, BC, Canada
      > > dwzimm@...
      > > http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a828
      > >
      >
    • hibbsa
      ... complexity in thought processes may be informative. One thing that occurs to me is that the various definitions of insanity so far (actually, I prefer
      Message 80 of 80 , Jan 7, 2012
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        > DWZ:
        > That is an interesting point of view, and looking at the increase of
        complexity in thought processes may be informative. One thing that
        occurs to me is that the various definitions of "insanity" so far
        (actually, I prefer the expression "mental illness" instead of that most
        negative term of bygone days) is that they seem to focus on opinions,
        beliefs, verbal expressions, and so on, inappropriate language, etc. and
        omit the prominent emotional component of the condition.
        >
        > The inappropriate behavioral episodes we have been talking about are
        usually accompanied by strong emotion, mood disorders, feelings, etc.
        that somehow come to be expressed in the wrong way, in the wrong places,
        and so on, and are present over long periods of time. That would be
        consistent with the possibility that neurotransmitters, dopamine,
        serotonin, etc. are not functioning properly, whatever the source of the
        trouble may be.
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Donald W. Zimmerman
        > Vancouver, BC, Canada
        > dwzimm@...
        > http://www3.telus.net/public/a7a82899
        >

        Hi Don - it does all seem to be very complex. There appear to be some
        disorders that are caused by feeling/emotion misfiring. Whereas in
        delusion/psychotic conditions the relationship between emotional
        intensity and psychosis is harder to pin down. For example, if you
        actually do believe you are surrounded by ghosts, or people trying to
        kill you, or the authorities trying to frame you, then the emotional
        intensity looks pretty reasonable. I mean...if it was true...and
        happening to a normal person, that person would feel intense emotions,
        and be prone to extremae actions.

        So I guess all we've uncovered here, is that 'mental illness' is a catch
        all phrase for a huge number of very different disorders. Which
        actually....isn't such a bad outcome. It may feel like a truism, or
        something we could have got from any mental illness information website,
        but to realize from discussion and thinking is a much deeper and richer
        way to get it.

        Big subject. That's why we need a mental health profession, specialists,
        and plenty of scientific research and theoretical progresss
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