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Re: [evol-psych] News: Up to 220,000 California children excluded from health care reform due to immigrant status

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  • ED
    Why does not the media, nor the Democrats nor the Republicans nor our law-makers supportive of your POV? ... the ... Mexico, ... why
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1 4:47 PM
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      Why does not the media, nor the Democrats nor the Republicans nor our law-makers supportive of your POV?

      --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda <rafonda@...> wrote:

      >
      > Recall that during the debate over Obamacare, the do-gooders claimed
      > that illegal immigrants would NOT be covered, but now that they have the
      > program in place they are crying about the 'excluded' ... maybe Mexico,
      > or other countries of origin, could fund their health care? No? Then why
      > is it OUR responsibility? Twenty + million illegals taking jobs and
      > welfare or engaging in criminal enterprise, while twenty + million
      > citizens are out of work, and they are crying about the illegals'
      > children not having 'free' medical care.
      >
      > RAF

    • Julienne
      ... This is the problem with nationalism, and bastards - when people own people and pledge allegiance to a plot of land, then we can wipe our hands of
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 2 8:31 AM
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        At 07:47 PM 7/1/2011, ED wrote:



        Why does not the media, nor the Democrats nor the Republicans nor our law-makers supportive of your POV?

        --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda <rafonda@...> wrote:
        >
        > Recall that during the debate over Obamacare, the do-gooders claimed
        > that illegal immigrants would NOT be covered, but now that they have the
        > program in place they are crying about the 'excluded' ... maybe Mexico,
        > or other countries of origin, could fund their health care? No? Then why
        > is it OUR responsibility? Twenty + million illegals taking jobs and
        > welfare or engaging in criminal enterprise, while twenty + million
        > citizens are out of work, and they are crying about the illegals'
        > children not having 'free' medical care.

        This is the problem with nationalism, and "bastards" - when people
        "own" people and pledge allegiance to a plot of land, then we can wipe
        our hands of whatever we like - "it's not my problem".

        As to jobs - the fruit growers are in trouble - now that they've
        chased away the "illegals", they have no one to pick the fruit crops.
        They're talking about hiring Americans with criminal records (for pot
        smoking?) -who are having a difficult time getting jobs because they
        have criminal records. - Another group of people with damaged lives.
        Problem is, they don't like working in the boiling heat, and they don't
        have the proper skills. It takes 4 of them to replace one "illegal",
        and they don't like the work, so they quit.

        What a puzzlement...looks like some people outsmarted themselves. Now
        the price of peaches and more will probably rise.

        I planted some peach, pear, apple, plum, and many other fruit trees
        and berry bushes...but they're young. Nut my blueberries, raspberries,
        strawberries, red currants, and more, are already mature. Got to keep
        planting. Unfortunately my climate isn't right for the tropicals -
        and who knows what happens next with the climate changing?

        Julienne




        Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.Marcus Aurelius
        Julienne's Blog: http://www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos, and Facebook. Radio: "You and the Cosmos"

      • R A Fonda
        ... Does this comment mean that you think that anyone in the world should be able to walk into the US and start sucking up welfare, paid for by people who had
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 2 10:41 AM
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          On 7/2/2011 11:31 AM, Julienne wrote:
          This is the problem with nationalism, and "bastards" - when people "own" people and pledge allegiance to a plot of land, then we can wipe our hands of whatever we like - "it's not my problem".

          Does this comment mean that you think that anyone in the world should be able to walk into the US and start sucking up welfare, paid for by people who had the initiative and self discipline to accumulate some savings? Why the quote marks around the word bastards; who posted that term which you are quoting? Who is supposed to "own" other people? My point was very much to the contrary: I do NOT "own" these people, and neither should they "own" me or my assets, nor are they even citizens of my country, thus I do not recognize that they have any claim on me for their medical care.

          RAF
        • artemistroy
          The government is planning to cut Medicare and Medicaid to close the $ trillion finance gap. They want to add illegals to the rolls? What they should be doing
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 3 8:54 PM
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            The government is planning to cut Medicare and Medicaid to close the $ trillion finance gap. They want to add illegals to the rolls? What they should be doing is trying to work out the best and least costly plan to boot them out of the country. My Uncle Sam will send my forced tax donation to them in the form of a check to their home country. Lawbreakers deserve nothing but a swift boot.

            Artemis

            --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda <rafonda@...> wrote:
            >
            > Recall that during the debate over Obamacare, the do-gooders claimed
            > that illegal immigrants would NOT be covered, but now that they have the
            > program in place they are crying about the 'excluded' ... maybe Mexico,
            > or other countries of origin, could fund their health care? No? Then why
            > is it OUR responsibility? Twenty + million illegals taking jobs and
            > welfare or engaging in criminal enterprise, while twenty + million
            > citizens are out of work, and they are crying about the illegals'
            > children not having 'free' medical care.
            >
            > RAF
            >
          • Robert Karl Stonjek
            ... From: artemistroy To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Up to 220,000 California
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 3 10:44 PM
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              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:54 PM
              Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Up to 220,000 California children excluded from health care reform due to immigrant status

              The government is planning to cut Medicare and Medicaid to close the $ trillion finance gap. They want to add illegals to the rolls? What they should be doing is trying to work out the best and least costly plan to boot them out of the country. My Uncle Sam will send my forced tax donation to them in the form of a check to their home country. Lawbreakers deserve nothing but a swift boot.

              Artemis

              RKS:
              And so that the southern farmers don't suffer, anyone unemployed for more than a couple weeks should be forced to pick fruit at the current going rate.
              ...as if...
               
              Robert
            • artemistroy
              As for current and future politicians, they know that older, indigenous (mostly white) Americans are dying off and they will need new sheeple to fleece for
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 3 11:02 PM
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                As for current and future politicians, they know that older, indigenous (mostly white) Americans are dying off and they will need new sheeple to fleece for votes and taxes. Those of us who follow the trends (demongraphics, etc.), expect to see the US transformed into something unrecognizable in the not too distant future. Expect to see more police state activity and even a military coup here and there.

                Artemis

                --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Why does not the media, nor the Democrats nor the Republicans nor our
                > law-makers supportive of your POV?
                >
                > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda <rafonda@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Recall that during the debate over Obamacare, the do-gooders claimed
                > > that illegal immigrants would NOT be covered, but now that they have
                > the
                > > program in place they are crying about the 'excluded' ... maybe
                > Mexico,
                > > or other countries of origin, could fund their health care? No? Then
                > why
                > > is it OUR responsibility? Twenty + million illegals taking jobs and
                > > welfare or engaging in criminal enterprise, while twenty + million
                > > citizens are out of work, and they are crying about the illegals'
                > > children not having 'free' medical care.
                > >
                > > RAF
                >
              • artemistroy
                I d rather pay more for an American-picked peach than pay $ billions to subsidize slave-wage illegals and their employers who pay nothing into the wealth
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 3 11:28 PM
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                  I'd rather pay more for an American-picked peach than pay $ billions to subsidize slave-wage illegals and their employers who pay nothing into the wealth distribution system. They compete unfairly with employers and legal workers who DO pay into the system. At least if they'd spend their $63 + billions in US slave wages IN the US instead of sending the money to their native countries there might be some incentive to allow them legal residency. However, they do not earn enough to be subject to taxation, so there is no financial incentive to allow them legal residency, and certainly not instant citizenship.

                  We don't vow allegience to a plot of land, but to a unified nation of like-minded people.

                  Artemis

                  --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Julienne <julienne@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > At 07:47 PM 7/1/2011, ED wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >Why does not the media, nor the Democrats nor the Republicans nor
                  > >our law-makers supportive of your POV?
                  > >
                  > >--- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda <rafonda@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Recall that during the debate over Obamacare, the do-gooders claimed
                  > > > that illegal immigrants would NOT be covered, but now that they have the
                  > > > program in place they are crying about the 'excluded' ... maybe Mexico,
                  > > > or other countries of origin, could fund their health care? No? Then why
                  > > > is it OUR responsibility? Twenty + million illegals taking jobs and
                  > > > welfare or engaging in criminal enterprise, while twenty + million
                  > > > citizens are out of work, and they are crying about the illegals'
                  > > > children not having 'free' medical care.
                  >
                  > This is the problem with nationalism, and "bastards" - when people
                  > "own" people and pledge allegiance to a plot of land, then we can wipe
                  > our hands of whatever we like - "it's not my problem".
                  >
                  > As to jobs - the fruit growers are in trouble - now that they've
                  > chased away the "illegals", they have no one to pick the fruit crops.
                  > They're talking about hiring Americans with criminal records (for pot
                  > smoking?) -who are having a difficult time getting jobs because they
                  > have criminal records. - Another group of people with damaged lives.
                  > Problem is, they don't like working in the boiling heat, and they don't
                  > have the proper skills. It takes 4 of them to replace one "illegal",
                  > and they don't like the work, so they quit.
                  >
                  > What a puzzlement...looks like some people outsmarted themselves. Now
                  > the price of peaches and more will probably rise.
                  >
                  > I planted some peach, pear, apple, plum, and many other fruit trees
                  > and berry bushes...but they're young. Nut my blueberries, raspberries,
                  > strawberries, red currants, and more, are already mature. Got to keep
                  > planting. Unfortunately my climate isn't right for the tropicals -
                  > and who knows what happens next with the climate changing?
                  >
                  > Julienne
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a
                  > perspective, not the truth.Marcus Aurelius
                  > Julienne's Blog: http://www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos, and
                  > Facebook. Radio: "You and the Cosmos"
                  >
                • R A Fonda
                  ... I happen to agree with you, though I would set the cut off at the 26 week beginning of extended benefits. Remember that the worker pays a big part of
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 4 7:15 AM
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                    On 7/4/2011 1:44 AM, Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
                    And so that the southern farmers don't suffer, anyone unemployed for more than a couple weeks should be forced to pick fruit at the current going rate.
                    ...as if...

                    I happen to agree with you, though I would set the cut off at the 26 week beginning of 'extended' benefits. Remember that the worker pays a big part of those benefits in foregone wages, so they have a right to at least TRY to find a suitable job, since once they are working as farm labor they can't do much job-seeking.

                    The farmer should also have to make some rudimentary child-care available, perhaps with some government transport-pooling and contracting with local businesses; then all those welfare mothers can sweat off some of their fat along with their boyfriends ... equality, and all that, ya know.


                    RAF
                  • artemistroy
                    Migrant Mexican farm workers have always been allowed entry during the planting and harvesting seasons. However, they always returned to Mexico. Now fewer than
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 4 4:23 PM
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                      Migrant Mexican farm workers have always been allowed entry during the planting and harvesting seasons. However, they always returned to Mexico. Now fewer than 1/2 of 1 percent of Mexican migrants work on farms. As soon as they get into the country they look for jobs in construction, restaurants, factories, landscaping, and other low-skilled, low wage employment. These people live and work in horrendous conditions and are exploited by their employers because they are illegal aliens and cannot register complaints with the authorities.

                      What the illegal aliens should do is to return to their native countries and apply for US work visas and then obtain a "green card" for permanent residency. If successful, they will have to reside in the US for five years before they can take the exam for citizenship. If they pass, then they are sworn in as "naturalized" citizens with the express understanding that if they break the law, they can be deported.

                      It's interesting that when I was visiting Portugal, foreigners were called "estrangeiros," strangers, aliens.

                      Artemis

                      --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek" <stonjek@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: artemistroy
                      > To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:54 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Up to 220,000 California children excluded from health care reform due to immigrant status
                      >
                      >
                      > The government is planning to cut Medicare and Medicaid to close the $ trillion finance gap. They want to add illegals to the rolls? What they should be doing is trying to work out the best and least costly plan to boot them out of the country. My Uncle Sam will send my forced tax donation to them in the form of a check to their home country. Lawbreakers deserve nothing but a swift boot.
                      >
                      > Artemis
                      >
                      > RKS:
                      > And so that the southern farmers don't suffer, anyone unemployed for more than a couple weeks should be forced to pick fruit at the current going rate.
                      > ...as if...
                      >
                      > Robert
                      >
                    • Robert Karl Stonjek
                      ... From: artemistroy To: evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Up to 220,000 California
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 4 5:54 PM
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 9:23 AM
                        Subject: Re: [evol-psych] News: Up to 220,000 California children excluded from health care reform due to immigrant status

                        Migrant Mexican farm workers have always been allowed entry during the planting and harvesting seasons. However, they always returned to Mexico. Now fewer than 1/2 of 1 percent of Mexican migrants work on farms. As soon as they get into the country they look for jobs in construction, restaurants, factories, landscaping, and other low-skilled, low wage employment. These people live and work in horrendous conditions and are exploited by their employers because they are illegal aliens and cannot register complaints with the authorities.

                        What the illegal aliens should do is to return to their native countries and apply for US work visas and then obtain a "green card" for permanent residency.  If successful, they will have to reside in the US for five years before they can take the exam for citizenship. If they pass, then they are sworn in as "naturalized" citizens with the express understanding that if they break the law, they can be deported.

                        It's interesting that when I was visiting Portugal, foreigners were called "estrangeiros," strangers, aliens.

                        Artemis  
                         
                        RKS:
                        That sounds like a better plan.  Now it is up to the government to adopt a plan like that one, police it if it already exists or explain to the people why they are not doing the above.
                         
                        If there is fair system in place then neither the Mexicans nor their apologists have reason to advocate circumventing the rules.
                         
                        Locally, the government has been considering temporary work visas for the Indonesians and other Islanders to our North for much the same kind of work, particularly in the very hot regions where ordinary Australians can not tolerate working in the heat (they die).
                         
                        Robert
                      • Julienne
                        At 07:23 PM 7/4/2011, artemistroy wrote: (...) What the illegal aliens should do is to return to their native countries and apply for US work visas and then
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 5 8:15 AM
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                          At 07:23 PM 7/4/2011, artemistroy wrote:
                          (...)
                          What the illegal aliens should do is to return to their native
                          countries and apply for US work visas and then obtain a "green card"
                          for permanent residency. If successful,

                          They will probably be 99% unsuccessful and surely you know that.

                          Julienne



                          There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some
                          reason in madness. Friedrich Nietzsche,
                          Julienne's Blog: http://www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos, and
                          Facebook. Radio: "You and the Cosmos"
                        • Julienne
                          ... Hardly. :)) Julienne There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness. Friedrich Nietzsche, Julienne s Blog:
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 5 10:04 AM
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                            At 02:28 AM 7/4/2011, artemistroy wrote:

                            >We don't vow allegience to a plot of land, but to a unified nation
                            >of like-minded people.

                            Hardly. :))

                            Julienne




                            There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some
                            reason in madness. Friedrich Nietzsche,
                            Julienne's Blog: http://www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos, and
                            Facebook. Radio: "You and the Cosmos"
                          • artemistroy
                            I was being facetious, of course. Anyway, it s still preferable to invisible borders. Artemis
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 5 5:02 PM
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                              I was being facetious, of course. Anyway, it's still preferable to invisible borders.

                              Artemis

                              --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Julienne <julienne@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > At 02:28 AM 7/4/2011, artemistroy wrote:
                              >
                              > >We don't vow allegience to a plot of land, but to a unified nation
                              > >of like-minded people.
                              >
                              > Hardly. :))
                              >
                              > Julienne
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some
                              > reason in madness. Friedrich Nietzsche,
                              > Julienne's Blog: http://www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos, and
                              > Facebook. Radio: "You and the Cosmos"
                              >
                            • artemistroy
                              That s what I m hoping... Artemis for a Smaller America
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 5 5:06 PM
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                                That's what I'm hoping...

                                Artemis for a Smaller America

                                --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Julienne <julienne@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > At 07:23 PM 7/4/2011, artemistroy wrote:
                                > (...)
                                > What the illegal aliens should do is to return to their native
                                > countries and apply for US work visas and then obtain a "green card"
                                > for permanent residency. If successful,
                                >
                                > They will probably be 99% unsuccessful and surely you know that.
                                >
                                > Julienne
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some
                                > reason in madness. Friedrich Nietzsche,
                                > Julienne's Blog: http://www.myspace.com/youandthecosmos, and
                                > Facebook. Radio: "You and the Cosmos"
                                >
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