Re: [evol-psych] The Danish Cartoon Affair
Detailed biographical data on Flemming Rose removed from Wikipedia
Flemming Rose born 3/14/1956 into a Jewish family in the Ukraine has a major in Russian language and literature from University of Copenhagen.
From 1990 to 1996 he was the Moscow correspondent for the newspaper Berlingske Tidende. Between 1996 and 1999 he was the correspondent for the same newspaper in Washington, D.C.. In 1999 he became Moscow correspondent for the newspaper Jyllands-Posten and January 2005 the cultural editor of that paper (KulturWeekend). He fled Denmark where he was under police protection to Miami, Florida in fear for his life where he is currently in hiding.
The reason I feel this is valuable to look at is the fact that Rose's commissioning of Muhammad-mocking cartoons has been portrayed as a conflict between European values and the values of Islam. This biographical detail makes it seem to be more a conflict between Zionists and Muslims waged on our soil and we are the ultimate losers for having allowed either of these peoples to step foot on our soil.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Wade <wmaillist@...> wrote:
"Among others, Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei blamed a "Zionist conspiracy" for the row over the cartoons. Palestinian Christian diplomat Afif Safieh, then the Palestine Liberation Organization's envoy to Washington, alleged the Likud party concocted the distribution of Muhammad caricatures worldwide in a bid to create a clash between the West and the Muslim world."
I've no reason to doubt that these senior people in Iran and PLO did make these allegations. It would seem entirely true to form. As to whether such allegations are true or not, I would be much more sceptical. It is quite possible that some people that you might classify as Zionist did use the whole thing to stir things up, again it's the sort of thing such people do do, but I also suspect that such stirring things up had minimal impact and the main work was done by islamic radicals who are more than capable orf making complete fools of themselves without any assistance from "zionists". Sadly making a fool of yourself doesn't imply that you haven't achieved exactly what you set out to achieve and in that I think the radical Islamist have succeeded spectacularly well. They have imposed de facto censorship on the entire Western media. Every single editor of a widely published newspaper/broadcast TV station, every comedian now knows the possible downside in terms of threats to his life, and worldwide mayhem if he were to dare publish something which could cause significant offense to the religious sensibilities of islamic radicals.On 1 October 2010 15:12, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
Wade,So you are agreeing with charges stated in the Wikipedia link you sent that Zionist groups were acting to exacerbate the controversy by disseminating the cartoons to muslims? That's what the link you sent me states....EdgarOn Sep 30, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Wade wrote:On 30 September 2010 17:50, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
What's the evidence for that Wade?EdgarOn Sep 29, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Wade wrote:
How this can be regarded as a serious analysis of the incident without even mentioning the fact that the most provocative of the drawings were infact fabricated by the group of radicals who toured the Middle East trying to stir up a reaction is beyond me.
WadeOn 29 September 2010 20:32, ED <seacrofter001@...> wrote:
September 24 - 26, 2010
How and Why It All Began
The Danish Cartoon Affair
By RUNE ENGELBRETH LARSEN
On September 30, 2005, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 12 cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, some of which were extremely demonizing in their outspoken anti-Muslim symbolism. Four months later violent protests erupted outside Danish embassies in some Muslim countries, and the terror threat against Denmark increased dramatically. Yet what happened during those four months, and could the escalation of the crisis have been prevented? Was it simply about freedom of speech and a "clash of civilizations" or were other agendas in play? Moreover, why did it happen in Denmark of all places?
The End of Diplomacy
Rune Engelbreth Larsen is an historian of ideas and columnist in the Danish newspaper Politiken.
- I agree that the "solution" is to ignore en mass the sensibilities of the islamists. If a sufficient number of institutions/people are prepared to stand up, then the islamists cannot threaten or attack everyone. If you recall something along these lines was attempted in that the cartoons were reprinted in I think in about 20 newspapers - embarrassingly not in any British newspaper. The editors that did rerun the cartoons, were I think quite brave, but it was sadly not enough. What was needed to protect our freedom was a tidal wave of a reaction. Something very similar is taking place regarding China on the subjects of Tibet, Taiwan and the Falon Gong, where Western governments are individually too weak to speak up on these subjects for fear of losing export contracts etc. If there were a concerted effort to for example recognise Taiwanese statehood, then there would be nothing much the Chinese could do about it.
On 3 October 2010 22:33, Steve Moxon <stevemoxon3@...> wrote:The problem is that codes of tolerance actually entrench intolerance.Islamo-fascists are just as driven by Western culture as are PC-fascists: they share the Abrahamic-religion-based notion of a teleological pull towards a promised land as the basis of an insanely zealous ideology of revolutionary/progressive inevitability.Islamo-fadcists will no less want to nuke New York if media consistently pull all criticism of Islam, than if media just let rip with cartoons.So we may as well go ahead and mercilessly take the piss.At least then the fanatics and their dupes will become desensitised to insult, and they will lose such bogus pretext for their atrocities.We need to take the piss out of this crap from wherever it arises.We should not be shy of attacking PC-fascists for justifying the ongoing occupation of Afghanistan in terms of exporting supposedly universal 'human-rights', sex-hate-feminism and faux-democracy.Steve Moxon<Snip>----- Original Message -----From: WadeSent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 2:28 PMSubject: Re: [evol-psych] Re: The Danish Cartoon Affair
But that is precisely the point. It's all a question of the sensitivity to insult and the scale of the reaction.
If I stood outside Canterbury Cathedral with a large magaphone shouting that Jesus was a paedophile, they might send a Bobby along and tell me to move along sir
If I refused to do so, its possible i could be charged with breach of the peace and spend a few hours in the cells.
But here we are talking about a few pretty innocuous cartoons in an obscure Danish newspaper and remember Denmark is not yet a muslim country and the consequences are global mayhem , murder and life long persecution. Tghe impact of that is that Western media sources on a global scale, must be extremely careful not to print or publish anything which could result in an unleashing of muslim reaction.
OK I am constrained from burning Torahs outside synagogues, but I had no reason for wanting to do that in the first place, butI would love to see programs on Western TV dissecting the absurdities that islam and other religions are based on.