Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

News: German with Hitler ringtone faces jail

Expand Messages
  • Robert Karl Stonjek
    German with Hitler ringtone faces jail From: AFP July 01, 2010 10:48PM Train passengers were shocked to hear the sound of Hitler screaming coming from the
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1, 2010

      German with Hitler ringtone faces jail

      From:AFP
      July 01, 2010 10:48PM
       
      hitlerTrain passengers were shocked to hear the sound of Hitler screaming coming from the man's phone
      Source: AP

      A MAN who had a speech by Adolf Hitler as his ringtone could face up to three years in jail.

      Police seized the 54-year-old's phone at Harburg station, near the northern city of Hamburg, after fellow train passengers, shocked by the sound of Hitler screaming, alerted police.

      "It was an original speech by Adolf Hitler which ended with the phrase 'Sieg Heil'," police spokesman Ruediger Carstens said, adding that the man also had a picture of Hitler standing in front of a swastika on his phone.

      Police have handed the case over to prosecutors.

      Under German law, the man could face up to three years in prison or a fine.

      The public display of Nazi symbols like the swastika have been banned in Germany since the end of World War II.

      Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/german-with-hitler-ringtone-faces-jail/story-e6frfkyi-1225886903375

      Posted by
      Robert Karl Stonjek

    • Joao Sousa
      Pos-WW II Germany should be lauded as an admirable example of a country which learned from its past. Germany has the most advanced and restrictive anti-Nazi
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 2, 2010

        Pos-WW II Germany should be lauded as an admirable example of a country which learned from its past. Germany has the most advanced and restrictive anti-Nazi laws in the world.

        Let's not forget that the father of one of our evolutionary biology and EP idols, Robert Trivers, was a great social engineer who worked in the de--Nazification of Germany.


        At 04:08 02-07-2010, you wrote:
         


        German with Hitler ringtone faces jail



        From: AFP
        July 01, 2010 10:48PM
         
        hitler Train passengers were shocked to hear the sound of Hitler screaming coming from the man's phone
        Source:
        AP

        A MAN who had a speech by Adolf Hitler as his ringtone could face up to three years in jail.

        Police seized the 54-year-old's phone at Harburg station, near the northern city of Hamburg, after fellow train passengers, shocked by the sound of Hitler screaming, alerted police.

        "It was an original speech by Adolf Hitler which ended with the phrase 'Sieg Heil'," police spokesman Ruediger Carstens said, adding that the man also had a picture of Hitler standing in front of a swastika on his phone.

        Police have handed the case over to prosecutors.

        Under German law, the man could face up to three years in prison or a fine.

        The public display of Nazi symbols like the swastika have been banned in Germany since the end of World War II.

        Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/german-with-hitler-ringtone-faces-jail/story-e6frfkyi-1225886903375

        Posted by
        Robert Karl Stonjek



      • ED
        I don t disagree with anything you say, but does Judaism have a double standard with respect to Jewish attitudes/behaviors toward fellow-Jews and Jewish
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 2, 2010
          I don't disagree with anything you say, but does Judaism have a double
          standard with respect to Jewish attitudes/behaviors toward fellow-Jews
          and Jewish attitudes/behaviors toward non-Jews - or not? As you are
          Jewish, Iam hoping that you could enlighten us on this matter.

          --ED



          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Joao Sousa
          <j.d.sousa@...> wrote:
          >
          > Pos-WW II Germany should be lauded as an
          > admirable example of a country which learned from
          > its past. Germany has the most advanced and
          > restrictive anti-Nazi laws in the world.
          >
          > Let's not forget that the father of one of our
          > evolutionary biology and EP idols, Robert
          > Trivers, was a great social engineer who worked
          > in the de--Nazification of Germany.
          >
          >
          > At 04:08 02-07-2010, you wrote:
          > >
          > >German with Hitler ringtone faces jail
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >From: AFP
          > >July 01, 2010 10:48PM
          > >
          > >hitler
          > >Train passengers were shocked to hear the sound
          > >of Hitler screaming coming from the man's phone
          > >Source: AP
          > >
          > >A MAN who had a speech by Adolf Hitler as his
          > >ringtone could face up to three years in jail.
          > >
          > >Police seized the 54-year-old's phone at Harburg
          > >station, near the northern city of Hamburg,
          > >after fellow train passengers, shocked by the
          > >sound of Hitler screaming, alerted police.
          > >
          > >"It was an original speech by Adolf Hitler which
          > >ended with the phrase 'Sieg Heil'," police
          > >spokesman Ruediger Carstens said, adding that
          > >the man also had a picture of Hitler standing in
          > >front of a swastika on his phone.
          > >
          > >Police have handed the case over to prosecutors.
          > >
          > >Under German law, the man could face up to three years in prison or a
          fine.
          > >
          > >The public display of Nazi symbols like the
          > >swastika have been banned in Germany since the end of World War II.
          > >
          > >Source:
          >
          ><http://www.news.com.au/world/german-with-hitler-ringtone-faces-jail/st\
          ory-e6frfkyi-1225886903375>http://www.news.com.au/world/german-with-hitl\
          er-ringtone-faces-jail/story-e6frfkyi-1225886903375
          > >
          > >Posted by
          > >Robert Karl Stonjek
        • Joao Sousa
          ... I am not Jewish. I believe Judaism has this double standard, but the vast majority of modern Jews (many of which my friends) are not bigots, that is they
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 4, 2010


            I don't disagree with anything you say, but does Judaism have a double
            standard with respect to Jewish attitudes/behaviors toward fellow-Jews
            and Jewish attitudes/behaviors toward non-Jews - or not? As you are
            Jewish, Iam hoping that you could enlighten us on this matter.

            I am not Jewish. I believe Judaism has this double standard, but the vast majority of modern Jews (many of which my friends) are not bigots, that is they are not comfortable with the double standard.



            --ED

            --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Joao Sousa
            <j.d.sousa@...> wrote:
            >
            > Pos-WW II Germany should be lauded as an
            > admirable example of a country which learned from
            > its past. Germany has the most advanced and
            > restrictive anti-Nazi laws in the world.
            >
            > Let's not forget that the father of one of our
            > evolutionary biology and EP idols, Robert
            > Trivers, was a great social engineer who worked
            > in the de--Nazification of Germany.
            >
            >

          • ED
            I prefer to hear from Jews on this issue. ... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/message/10614 3
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 4, 2010


              I prefer to hear from Jews on this issue.

              --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Joao Sousa <j.d.sousa@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am not Jewish.

              http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/message/106143

            • andy_morley@hotmail.com
              I would be interested to see the case for applying or not applying similar legislation to the sermons preached by some of the more hate-inspired Islamic
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 5, 2010
                I would be interested to see the case for applying or not applying similar legislation to the sermons preached by some of the more hate-inspired Islamic religious leaders.

                Although the Holocaust was larger in scale by an order of magnitude than the 9/11 and other similar attacks, it would be hard to argue that the impact on the victims and their families was any greater or less, though it would have been different.

                In the case of Germany, it is possible advance local historical and cultural reasons for specific examples of discriminatory legislation aimed at Nazi ideology. But at a wider level, once you begin to apply principles of this kind, it is difficult to see where they would stop.

                Andy Morley

                --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek" <stonjek@...> wrote:
                >
                > German with Hitler ringtone faces jail
                > From: AFP
                > July 01, 2010 10:48PM
                >
                > Train passengers were shocked to hear the sound of Hitler screaming coming from the man's phone
                > Source: AP
                > A MAN who had a speech by Adolf Hitler as his ringtone could face up to three years in jail.
                >
                > Police seized the 54-year-old's phone at Harburg station, near the northern city of Hamburg, after fellow train passengers, shocked by the sound of Hitler screaming, alerted police.
                >
                > "It was an original speech by Adolf Hitler which ended with the phrase 'Sieg Heil'," police spokesman Ruediger Carstens said, adding that the man also had a picture of Hitler standing in front of a swastika on his phone.
                >
                > Police have handed the case over to prosecutors.
                >
                > Under German law, the man could face up to three years in prison or a fine.
                >
                > The public display of Nazi symbols like the swastika have been banned in Germany since the end of World War II.
                >
                > Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/german-with-hitler-ringtone-faces-jail/story-e6frfkyi-1225886903375
                >
                > Posted by
                > Robert Karl Stonjek
                >
              • ED
                There are such laws in mot or all European countries - and in Canada. Last night in my five minute check on Fox News, which appears to me to be continually
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 5, 2010


                   

                  There are such laws in mot or all European countries - and in Canada.

                  Last night in my five minute check on Fox News, which appears to me to be continually spouting racist and hate speech, one Jewish Canadian guest complaimed that an Imam sued him for hate speech (because of his attempts to accuse them of hate speech, I believe), and this cost him $100,000 in lawyers' fees.

                  I understand that in Canada one can be imprisoned for declaring that less than a certain number of Jews perished in Hitler's Holocaust. I do not know if declaring that less than some official number of non-Jews perishing in Hitler's Holocaust is also hate speech.

                  Hate speech is *not* hate speech when it is freedom of expression - like in the Fleming Rose Muhammed Cartoons "clash of civilizations" case. Google[fleming rose muhammad OR mohammed cartoons "clash of civilizations".]

                  --ED

                   

                  --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@... wrote:

                  >
                  > I would be interested to see the case for applying or not applying similar legislation to the sermons preached by some of the more hate-inspired Islamic religious leaders.
                  >
                  > Although the Holocaust was larger in scale by an order of magnitude than the 9/11 and other similar attacks, it would be hard to argue that the impact on the victims and their families was any greater or less, though it would have been different.
                  >
                  > In the case of Germany, it is possible advance local historical and cultural reasons for specific examples of discriminatory legislation aimed at Nazi ideology. But at a wider level, once you begin to apply principles of this kind, it is difficult to see where they would stop.
                  >
                  > Andy Morley

                  > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek" stonjek@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > German with Hitler ringtone faces jail
                  > > From: AFP
                  > > July 01, 2010 10:48PM
                  > >
                  > > Train passengers were shocked to hear the sound of Hitler screaming coming from the man's phone
                  > > Source: AP
                  > > A MAN who had a speech by Adolf Hitler as his ringtone could face up to three years in jail.
                  > >
                  > > Police seized the 54-year-old's phone at Harburg station, near the northern city of Hamburg, after fellow train passengers, shocked by the sound of Hitler screaming, alerted police.
                  > >
                  > > "It was an original speech by Adolf Hitler which ended with the phrase 'Sieg Heil'," police spokesman Ruediger Carstens said, adding that the man also had a picture of Hitler standing in front of a swastika on his phone.
                  > >
                  > > Police have handed the case over to prosecutors.
                  > >
                  > > Under German law, the man could face up to three years in prison or a fine.
                  > >
                  > > The public display of Nazi symbols like the swastika have been banned in Germany since the end of World War II.
                  > >
                  > > Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/german-with-hitler-ringtone-faces-jail/story-e6frfkyi-1225886903375
                  > >
                  > > Posted by
                  > > Robert Karl Stonjek

                • andy_morley@hotmail.com
                  I m with Voltaire on this. However much I or other people may disagree with someone else s point of view, I most certainly do not want the law to intervene to
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 5, 2010
                    I'm with Voltaire on this. However much I or other people may disagree with someone else's point of view, I most certainly do not want the law to intervene to prevent me from hearing it expressed. Once law starts to meddle in these areas, it's the start of a very slippery slope.

                    Andy Morley

                    --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > There are such laws in mot or all European countries - and in Canada.
                    >
                    > Last night in my five minute check on Fox News, which appears to me to
                    > be continually spouting racist and hate speech, one Jewish Canadian
                    > guest complaimed that an Imam sued him for hate speech (because of his
                    > attempts to accuse them of hate speech, I believe), and this cost him
                    > $100,000 in lawyers' fees.
                    >
                    > I understand that in Canada one can be imprisoned for declaring that
                    > less than a certain number of Jews perished in Hitler's Holocaust. I do
                    > not know if declaring that less than some official number of non-Jews
                    > perishing in Hitler's Holocaust is also hate speech.
                    >
                    > Hate speech is *not* hate speech when it is freedom of expression - like
                    > in the Fleming Rose Muhammed Cartoons "clash of civilizations" case.
                    > Google[fleming rose muhammad OR mohammed cartoons "clash of
                    > civilizations".]
                    >
                    > --ED
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I would be interested to see the case for applying or not applying
                    > similar legislation to the sermons preached by some of the more
                    > hate-inspired Islamic religious leaders.
                    > >
                    > > Although the Holocaust was larger in scale by an order of magnitude
                    > than the 9/11 and other similar attacks, it would be hard to argue that
                    > the impact on the victims and their families was any greater or less,
                    > though it would have been different.
                    > >
                    > > In the case of Germany, it is possible advance local historical and
                    > cultural reasons for specific examples of discriminatory legislation
                    > aimed at Nazi ideology. But at a wider level, once you begin to apply
                    > principles of this kind, it is difficult to see where they would stop.
                    > >
                    > > Andy Morley
                    >
                    >
                    > > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
                    > stonjek@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > German with Hitler ringtone faces jail
                    > > > From: AFP
                    > > > July 01, 2010 10:48PM
                    > > >
                    > > > Train passengers were shocked to hear the sound of Hitler screaming
                    > coming from the man's phone
                    > > > Source: AP
                    > > > A MAN who had a speech by Adolf Hitler as his ringtone could face up
                    > to three years in jail.
                    > > >
                    > > > Police seized the 54-year-old's phone at Harburg station, near the
                    > northern city of Hamburg, after fellow train passengers, shocked by the
                    > sound of Hitler screaming, alerted police.
                    <snip>
                  • ED
                    As compared with the love-filled statements of these national leaders: http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm ? --ED ...
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 5, 2010

                       

                      As compared with the love-filled statements of these national leaders:

                      http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm ?

                      --ED

                       

                      --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@... wrote:
                      >
                      > I would be interested to see the case for applying or not applying similar legislation to the sermons preached by some of the more hate-inspired Islamic religious leaders.
                      > ...
                      > Andy Morley

                       

                    • Donald W.
                      ... DWZ: My guess is that almost all people of all persuasions who support freedom of speech, the press, etc., do not really want unlimited free speech and
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 5, 2010
                        --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@... wrote:

                        > I'm with Voltaire on this. However much I or other people may disagree with someone else's point of view, I most certainly do not want the law to intervene to prevent me from hearing it expressed. Once law starts to meddle in these areas, it's the start of a very slippery slope.


                        DWZ:
                        My guess is that almost all people of all persuasions who support freedom of speech, the press, etc., do not really want unlimited free speech and intellectual inquiry with regard to social issues and controversies. The more common position is "Everybody must have freedom of speech, except, of course, XXXX, where XXXX refers to some special and personal point of view that it would be absolutely unconscionable to challenge or question in any way. It might be called the "almost tolerant" or "almost liberal" position. The almost tolerant members of society probably outnumber "totally tolerant" ones.

                        That "free speech except for ..." position may remain hidden, and those who hold it may appear to be extremely broadminded and accepting of anything, until some decisive event threatens their own personal well-being and security. They are tolerant until war comes, and then everything is about national security. Anyone who looks like the enemy or talks like the enemy must be sent to internment camps. In peace time, we all support hostels and half-way houses for the poor and disadvantaged until they appear in our own neighborhood and threaten property values.

                        Best regards,

                        Donald W. Zimmerman
                        Vancouver, BC, Canada
                        dwzimm@...
                        http://mypage.direct.ca/z/zimmerma/index.html
                      • ED
                        Which pressure groups have successfully pushed for these laws for decades? --ED ... with someone else s point of view, I most certainly do not want the law to
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 5, 2010
                          Which pressure groups have successfully pushed for these laws for
                          decades?

                          --ED


                          --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@... wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm with Voltaire on this. However much I or other people may disagree
                          with someone else's point of view, I most certainly do not want the law
                          to intervene to prevent me from hearing it expressed. Once law starts to
                          meddle in these areas, it's the start of a very slippery slope.
                          >
                          > Andy Morley



                          > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "ED" seacrofter001@
                          wrote:
                          > >
                          > > There are such laws in most or all European countries - and in
                          Canada.
                          > >
                          > > Last night in my five minute check on Fox News, which appears to me
                          to
                          > > be continually spouting racist and hate speech, one Jewish Canadian
                          > > guest complaimed that an Imam sued him for hate speech (because of
                          his
                          > > attempts to accuse them of hate speech, I believe), and this cost
                          him
                          > > $100,000 in lawyers' fees.
                          > >
                          > > I understand that in Canada one can be imprisoned for declaring that
                          > > less than a certain number of Jews perished in Hitler's Holocaust. I
                          do
                          > > not know if declaring that less than some official number of
                          non-Jews
                          > > perishing in Hitler's Holocaust is also hate speech.
                          > >
                          > > Hate speech is *not* hate speech when it is freedom of expression -
                          like
                          > > in the Fleming Rose Muhammed Cartoons "clash of civilizations" case.
                          > > Google[fleming rose muhammad OR mohammed cartoons "clash of
                          > > civilizations"]
                          > >
                          > > --ED



                          > > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I would be interested to see the case for applying or not applying
                          > > similar legislation to the sermons preached by some of the more
                          > > hate-inspired Islamic religious leaders.
                          > > >
                          > > > Although the Holocaust was larger in scale by an order of
                          magnitude
                          > > than the 9/11 and other similar attacks, it would be hard to argue
                          that
                          > > the impact on the victims and their families was any greater or
                          less,
                          > > though it would have been different.
                          > > >
                          > > > In the case of Germany, it is possible advance local historical
                          and
                          > > cultural reasons for specific examples of discriminatory legislation
                          > > aimed at Nazi ideology. But at a wider level, once you begin to
                          apply
                          > > principles of this kind, it is difficult to see where they would
                          stop.
                          > > >
                          > > > Andy Morley



                          > > > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Karl
                          Stonjek"
                          > > stonjek@ wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > German with Hitler ringtone faces jail
                          > > > > From: AFP
                          > > > > July 01, 2010 10:48PM
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Train passengers were shocked to hear the sound of Hitler
                          screaming
                          > > coming from the man's phone
                          > > > > Source: AP
                          > > > > A MAN who had a speech by Adolf Hitler as his ringtone could
                          face up
                          > > to three years in jail.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Police seized the 54-year-old's phone at Harburg station, near
                          the
                          > > northern city of Hamburg, after fellow train passengers, shocked by
                          the
                          > > sound of Hitler screaming, alerted police.
                          > <snip>
                        • ED
                          http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/andrew-brett/2010/07/case-study-failure
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 5, 2010


                            http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/andrew-brett/2010/07/case-study-failure

                            Pride Toronto's case study in failure

                            July 6, 2010

                            Rocco Rossi and Bernie Farber at Pride 2010

                            Just one month ago, Israel lobby groups in Canada were celebrating the decision of Pride Toronto to prohibit the participation of the group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) at the 2010 Pride parade.

                            The group has marched in the parade since 2008 in response to a public relations campaign to rebrand Israel as a safe haven for queers in the Middle East, effectively pinkwashing the occupation and Israel's apartheid practices –- which deny rights to queer Palestinians.

                            After two years of backroom lobbying of the Pride board of directors, their sponsors and city officials who make funding decisions for the festival, the organization succumbed to pressure and announced that it would censor the term "Israeli apartheid" from the parade.

                            In its May 28 editorial A case study in activism, the National Post[***]  hailed the decision as a landmark victory that would have "significant repercussions for the intellectual climate in this country."

                            [ *** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post]

                            [***  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CanWest_Global_Communications ]

                             

                            Less than a month later, Pride Toronto reversed its decision and allowed Queers Against Israeli Apartheid to march in the parade. As a result of the controversy, hundreds of people joined the group at Pride last weekend, forming the largest Palestine solidarity contingent in the parade's history.

                            How did this happen? The Israel lobby applied many of the same tactics it used successfully against other community groups, unions, student associations, artists and academic institutions. Why did they backfire this time?

                            When Naomi Klein made a surprise appearance at a cabaret fundraiser for Queers Against Israeli Apartheid at a Toronto nightclub last week, she summed it up in six words: "They messed with the wrong community."

                             

                            --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@... wrote:

                            >
                            > I'm with Voltaire on this. However much I or other people may disagree with someone else's point of view, I most certainly do not want the law to intervene to prevent me from hearing it expressed. Once law starts to meddle in these areas, it's the start of a very slippery slope.
                            >
                            > Andy Morley

                             

                          • andy_morley@hotmail.com
                            One of the areas where this half-way house applies is of course Evolutionary Psychology. The main thing that first got me interested in EP was a friend of
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 6, 2010
                              One of the areas where this 'half-way house' applies is of course Evolutionary Psychology.

                              The main thing that first got me interested in EP was a friend of mine who is a social worker and who was doing a PhD a few years ago, trawling through all kinds of different areas of academe, which he discussed from time to time with me.

                              He made such an issue of saying what bad a thing this 'Evolutionary Psychology' was that, given the fact he was and is rather 'PC', I leapt to the not entirely logical conclusion that:
                              "if a PC-inclined person says it's 'bad', then that probably means there's some truth in it".

                              I didn't come to it cold it has to be said, as I already had an interest in evolutionary biology. But as heuristics go, the one that says "What the PC mob don't like is probably right" seems to have stood up to this particular test.

                              What makes the above relevant to this thread is that as a one-time politics student, I have studied both Fascism and Marxism in depth, and it is my considered opinion that there are significant points of commonality between Fascism and 'Political Correctness'.

                              Andy Morley

                              --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "Donald W." <dwzimm@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@ wrote:
                              >
                              > > I'm with Voltaire on this. However much I or other people may disagree with someone else's point of view, I most certainly do not want the law to intervene to prevent me from hearing it expressed. Once law starts to meddle in these areas, it's the start of a very slippery slope.
                              >
                              >
                              > DWZ:
                              > My guess is that almost all people of all persuasions who support freedom of speech, the press, etc., do not really want unlimited free speech and intellectual inquiry with regard to social issues and controversies. The more common position is "Everybody must have freedom of speech, except, of course, XXXX, where XXXX refers to some special and personal point of view that it would be absolutely unconscionable to challenge or question in any way. It might be called the "almost tolerant" or "almost liberal" position. The almost tolerant members of society probably outnumber "totally tolerant" ones.
                              >
                              > That "free speech except for ..." position may remain hidden, and those who hold it may appear to be extremely broadminded and accepting of anything, until some decisive event threatens their own personal well-being and security. They are tolerant until war comes, and then everything is about national security. Anyone who looks like the enemy or talks like the enemy must be sent to internment camps. In peace time, we all support hostels and half-way houses for the poor and disadvantaged until they appear in our own neighborhood and threaten property values.
                              >
                              > Best regards,
                              >
                              > Donald W. Zimmerman
                              > Vancouver, BC, Canada
                              > dwzimm@...
                              > http://mypage.direct.ca/z/zimmerma/index.html
                              >
                            • ED
                              ... politics student, I have studied both Fascism and Marxism in depth, and it is my considered opinion that there are significant points of commonality
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 6, 2010


                                Andy wrote:

                                > What makes the above relevant to this thread is that as a one-time politics student, I have studied both Fascism and Marxism in depth, and it is my considered opinion that there are significant points of commonality between Fascism and 'Political Correctness'.

                                 

                                ED writes:

                                That's a conclusion one could well reach, if one has been educated into the standard Western "intellectual" mind-set.

                                If one uses common sense, and observes how the world works, "politically correctness" is none other than one group non-conspiratorially and legally exercising its wealth, historical victim, media, political and/or other powers to promote points of view and ideologies that work toward the interests of the group, and to deny the same right to opponents by (silently) instilling in them anxiety about the social, economic and political consequences of propagating alternative perspectives.

                                Related to PC: People usually exercise their option to bend to the political and financially powerful rather than be heroic. Discretion is the better part of valor. Democrats recently promoting Wall Street reform will be soon be suffering from a deprivation of Wall Street campaign contributions - and this with the the blessing by SCOTUS.

                                And this is the nature of the political Darwinian Jihad (that is, the life struggle to be one-up on outsiders) in inter-group interactions. Politics is natural and normal life - the Darwinian Life of humans. And this is how the world works on the typical democratic national scene.

                                --ED

                                 

                                --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, andy_morley@... wrote:
                                >
                                > One of the areas where this 'half-way house' applies is of course Evolutionary Psychology.
                                >
                                > The main thing that first got me interested in EP was a friend of mine who is a social worker and who was doing a PhD a few years ago, trawling through all kinds of different areas of academe, which he discussed from time to time with me.
                                >
                                > He made such an issue of saying what bad a thing this 'Evolutionary Psychology' was that, given the fact he was and is rather 'PC', I leapt to the not entirely logical conclusion that:
                                > "if a PC-inclined person says it's 'bad', then that probably means there's some truth in it".
                                >
                                > I didn't come to it cold it has to be said, as I already had an interest in evolutionary biology. But as heuristics go, the one that says "What the PC mob don't like is probably right" seems to have stood up to this particular test.
                                >
                                > What makes the above relevant to this thread is that as a one-time politics student, I have studied both Fascism and Marxism in depth, and it is my considered opinion that there are significant points of commonality between Fascism and 'Political Correctness'.
                                >
                                > Andy Morley

                              • artemistroy
                                After 60 years they still think every German is at risk to take up Nazi-ism? That would be like suppressing the American game of Cowboys and Indians, because
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 7, 2010
                                  After 60 years they still think every German is at risk to take up Nazi-ism? That would be like suppressing the American game of Cowboys and Indians, because the Indians were always the Bad Guys. If any child is caught playing this game, he is removed from the home and sent to School 1984 for brain tinkering until he gets it right: THE COWBOYS WERE THE BAD GUYS, SON!

                                  Methinks the Germans are a bit too soft to take up Nazi-ism these days, compared to their situation prior to WWII.

                                  Artemis

                                  --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, Joao Sousa <j.d.sousa@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Pos-WW II Germany should be lauded as an
                                  > admirable example of a country which learned from
                                  > its past. Germany has the most advanced and
                                  > restrictive anti-Nazi laws in the world.
                                  >
                                  > Let's not forget that the father of one of our
                                  > evolutionary biology and EP idols, Robert
                                  > Trivers, was a great social engineer who worked
                                  > in the de--Nazification of Germany.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  <Snip>
                                • artemistroy
                                  If you mean the 6 million Jews that perished, no one alive or dead can confirm that number. It s not possible for the remains of 6 million people to
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 7, 2010
                                    If you mean the "6 million" Jews that perished, no one alive or dead can confirm that number. It's not possible for the remains of 6 million people to disappear over such a short period of time because certainly after 60 years of constant research into the Holocaust and ongoing publicity, some of these remains would have been discovered somewhere. If we can locate the remains of millions of years old humanoid ancestors, even just a handful of parts, how could we not find the remains of 6 million, 60-year-old humans? Were there even 6 million Jews living in the German-occupied territories?

                                    People who insist that this number is fact should be able to provide evidence for their claim, as they would be required to do if they were before a judge in a court of law. "Your Honor: I (heard, read, believe, KNOW) that 6 million Jews perished in the Holocaust." Where is Exhibit A...the evidence?

                                    Artemis

                                    --- In evolutionary-psychology@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > There are such laws in mot or all European countries - and in Canada.
                                    >
                                    > Last night in my five minute check on Fox News, which appears to me to
                                    > be continually spouting racist and hate speech, one Jewish Canadian
                                    > guest complaimed that an Imam sued him for hate speech (because of his
                                    > attempts to accuse them of hate speech, I believe), and this cost him
                                    > $100,000 in lawyers' fees.
                                    >
                                    > I understand that in Canada one can be imprisoned for declaring that
                                    > less than a certain number of Jews perished in Hitler's Holocaust. I do
                                    > not know if declaring that less than some official number of non-Jews
                                    > perishing in Hitler's Holocaust is also hate speech.
                                    >
                                    > Hate speech is *not* hate speech when it is freedom of expression - like
                                    > in the Fleming Rose Muhammed Cartoons "clash of civilizations" case.
                                    > Google[fleming rose muhammad OR mohammed cartoons "clash of
                                    > civilizations".]
                                    >
                                    > --ED
                                    >
                                    <Snip>
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.