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EV Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1

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      Today's Topics:

      1. Re: Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M fringe pos
      production (AMPhibian)
      2. Re: China should register & lower e-bike speed, require
      insurance & lic. plate (Rick Randazzo)
      3. Re: Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M fringe pos
      production (cowtown@...)
      4. Re: Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M fringe pos
      production ( jukka j?rvinen )
      5. Re: China should register & lower e-bike speed, require
      insurance & lic. plate (David Nelson)
      6. Re: Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M fringe pos
      production (Jay Summet)
      7. Re: Have a lead on batteries...thoughts? (Jeff Haskell)
      8. Re: Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M fringe pos
      production (AMPhibian)
      9. Jetsons' dome (cowtown@...)
      10. Re: What'd You Miss? ... (brucedp4)
      11. EVjobs: Director Engr:QA Electrical EVSE Software UI Java
      Proj Mechanic Technician + (brucedp4)
      12. Peugeot EX1 EV At Goodwood Festival of Speed (brucedp)
      13. Re: Opinion ... (brucedp5)
      14. Sagging LiFePO4 T-Sky cell (Mark Hanson)
      15. Re: Sagging LiFePO4 T-Sky cell (Mark Grasser)
      16. Re: Opinion ... (Dave Davidson)
      17. Re: Opinion ... (bruce parmenter)
      18. EV's vs Power Generation (John G. Lussmyer)
      19. Re: Opinion ... (Willie McKemie)
      20. Re: EV's vs Power Generation ( jukka j?rvinen )
      21. Re: Jetsons' dome (lektwik)
      22. Re: EV's vs Power Generation (Bill Dube)
      23. Re: Opinion ... (Dave Davidson)
      24. Re: Opinion ... (Peter Gabrielsson)
      25. Re: EV's vs Power Generation (John)


      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

      Message: 1
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:15:35 -0700 (PDT)
      From: AMPhibian <amp_phibian@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M
      fringe pos production
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <1309472135722-3636972.post@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


      brucedp5 wrote:
      >
      > Drops $85k into UDO (Unidentified Driving Object)
      >
      > http://www.suntimes.com/6165933-417/sugar-grove-man-builds-all-electric-car-that-looks-like-floating-pyramid.html
      >
      >
      I can't believe this guy is still pushing this project. It's got to be a
      terribly inefficient vehicle, isn't it like 8,000 lbs or something? No one
      is going to buy something this weird in any kind of volume.

      --
      View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Zanis1-pyramid-EV-builder-hyperboles-for-3M-fringe-pos-production-tp3632649p3636972.html
      Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



      ------------------------------

      Message: 2
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:01:22 +0800
      From: Rick Randazzo <dazzor2000@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] China should register & lower e-bike speed,
      require insurance & lic. plate
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <BANLkTi=cL5R-K8yALhW4HBwZ20D1dgi7yw@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

      i am curiouse about your interest in this? is it just about what the plan
      may be for the USA?

      sorry folks - i need to rant ...

      i have lived in Guangzhou, China for more than 5 years now. they outlawed
      motorcycles in the city center in 2007 and now have outlawed the e-bikes...
      only in the city center , but i live on the outskirts and it is motorcycle
      and e-bike mayhem here...

      this past year i have started building electric bikes . . very fast
      electric bikes . and yes , very dangerous. a tuktuk (three wheel motor
      cycle) made an unexpected turn in front of me and i am still trying to get
      my teeth reparied - and yes .. he took off before i could come to my sences
      and catch him... then just last week a guy ran out into the road - so i
      swerved to go behind him - he grabed a hat in the middle of the road and ran
      back the other way ... never looked at all . too late for me to stop and i
      hit him full force . about 20+ mph... i flew over the handlebars ...

      it is not the bikes that are dangerouse but these people . they have no
      training of any kind on rules of the road .. actually i guess there are no
      rules .. many of these people come from small villages where there are no
      cars at all.. these people step off the sidewalk and never look . i drove
      motorcycles in the USA for many years and never had the near death
      experiences i face here daily on my commute. the govenment gives the
      handicap people these three wheel vehicles and part of the idea is they can
      make a living as small taxis. these people have zero training .. just some
      kind of basic training would solve 99% of the problems. . i don't know about
      you but we were actually taught road safety rules when we were in grade
      school .. actually i think the fatality rate is a lot higher here than
      anyone knows ...

      but i would never give up the bike as riding the public transportation
      sucks. ..and if i peddal my bike i arrive at work soaked in sweat and have
      to change clothes in the toilet... having an electric bike gives me the
      dependability and independence i need but not the hassle of owning a car.

      insanity rains here ...



      On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:57 PM, brucedp5 <brucedp3@...> wrote:

      >
      > China e-bike ban could mean U.S. e-moped sales?
      >
      > http://english.cri.cn/6909/2011/06/21/2821s644087.htm
      > [image] Future Of Electric Bicycles in China Uncertain
      > Web Editor: liuranran 2011-06-21
      >
      > [image Photo: China Economic weekly
      >
      > http://english.cri.cn/mmsource/images/2011/06/21/06674c2d84704c8cabf0443ebc0a5ed1.jpg
      > The Ministry of Public Security and the General Administration of
      > Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine jointly issued the
      > notice, which strengthened restrictions regarding electric bicycles
      > on the 18th of March, which represented one step in phasing out
      > e-bikes that exceed speed and weight limits.]
      >
      > The electric bicycle industry is facing difficulties in China and
      > its future seems uncertain after Shenzhen's banned the use of
      > electric bicycles in June. The China Economic weekly reports that
      > electric bicycle manufacturers and the industry association are
      > under stress.
      >
      > The ban, put forward by the Shenzhen municipal commission of
      > transport and the public security bureau, has been in effect on
      > Shenzhen's main streets since the 6th of June.
      >
      > The Ministry of Public Security and the General Administration of
      > Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine jointly issued the
      > notice, which strengthened restrictions regarding electric bicycles
      > on the 18th of March, which represented one step in phasing out
      > e-bikes that exceed speed and weight limits.
      >
      > More than 90% of the electric bicycles produced in the country
      > exceed the standard limit, Ni Jie, chairman of Zhejiang Luyuan
      > Electric Vehicle Co. Ltd said.
      >
      > As a "Silent Killer", e-bicycle is capable of high speeds with no
      > registration requirement and insurance. Since there is no license
      > plate to track them down, riders can easily flee after an accident,
      > making it difficult for victims to claim damages.
      >
      > At present, the number of electric bicycles has reached 120 million
      > in China, while the total number of motor vehicles is approximately
      > 199 million.
      > [Copyright by CRIENGLISH.com, 1998-2011 Registered Number:05064898]
      >
      >
      >
      > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/China-bans-e-bikes-rather-than-creating-laws-for-safe-use-tt3610560.html
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > {brucedp.150m.com}
      >
      > --
      > View this message in context:
      > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/China-should-register-lower-e-bike-speed-require-insurance-lic-plate-tp3629605p3629605.html
      > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
      > Nabble.com.
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
      > |
      > | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 3
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:09:05 -0700
      From: cowtown@...
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M
      fringe pos production
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID:
      <20110630170905.cqfztt4i88wskgks-pbjgbja@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
      format="flowed"

      <<<< I can't believe this guy is still pushing this project. It's got to be a
      terribly inefficient vehicle, isn't it like 8,000 lbs or something? No one
      is going to buy something this weird in any kind of volume. >>>>

      One market for something over 3 tons that carries one person at low
      speeds with no brakes or suspension would be as a parade vehicle. It
      would not be allowed on a golf course.

      In the article, he states he believes this was "his destiny", but you
      would think someone in the Fox Valley EV Association to which he
      belongs would have had the balls to give him a reality check. I think
      having such a dangerous and inefficient EV getting any press puts EV
      developers in a bad light.





      ------------------------------

      Message: 4
      Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 01:05:20 +0000
      From: " jukka j?rvinen " <jarviju@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M
      fringe pos production
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <4e0d1d53.634dec0a.64fc.ffffbbec@...>
      Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8

      Never say never. This might be 'the next big thing' in north korea.
      -jukka
      :D

      @my N8
      ---- alkuper?inen viesti ----
      L?hett?j?: AMPhibian
      L?hetetty: 01.07.2011, 01:15
      To:
      Aihe: Re: [EVDL] Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M fringe pos production



      brucedp5 wrote:
      >
      > Drops $85k into UDO (Unidentified Driving Object)
      >
      > http://www.suntimes.com/6165933-417/sugar-grove-man-builds-all-electric-car-that-looks-like-floating-pyramid.html
      >
      >
      I can't believe this guy is still pushing this project. It's got to be a
      terribly inefficient vehicle, isn't it like 8,000 lbs or something? No one
      is going to buy something this weird in any kind of volume.

      --
      View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Zanis1-pyramid-EV-builder-hyperboles-for-3M-fringe-pos-production-tp3632649p3636972.html
      Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

      _______________________________________________
      | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
      |
      | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



      ------------------------------

      Message: 5
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:18:22 -0700
      From: David Nelson <gizmoev@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] China should register & lower e-bike speed,
      require insurance & lic. plate
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <BANLkTikPo8M_Lo+MtPn+60Xw6hfu6kqxBQ@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      Rick, you point out exactly the problem we get into when we impose our
      perception of reality on a totally different culture. I've lived in
      many different cultures in the Pacific and SE Asia and still I forget
      to consider that I don't know the whole picture. Thanks for posting
      your experience.

      On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Rick Randazzo <dazzor2000@...> wrote:
      > ?i am curiouse about your interest in this? is it just about what the plan
      > may be for the USA?
      >
      > sorry folks - i need to rant ...
      >
      > i have lived in Guangzhou, China for more than 5 years now. they outlawed
      > motorcycles in the city center in 2007 and now have outlawed the e-bikes...
      > only in the city center , but i live on the outskirts and it is motorcycle
      > and e-bike mayhem here...
      >
      > ?this past year i have started building electric bikes . . very fast
      > electric bikes . and yes , very dangerous. a tuktuk (three wheel motor
      > cycle) made an unexpected turn in front of me and i am still trying to get
      > my teeth reparied - and yes .. he took off before i could come to my sences
      > and catch him... then just last week a guy ran out into the road - so i
      > swerved to go behind him - he grabed a hat in the middle of the road and ran
      > back the other way ... never looked at all . too late for me to stop and i
      > hit him full force . about 20+ mph... i flew over the handlebars ...
      >
      > it is not the bikes that are dangerouse but these people . they have no
      > training of any kind on rules of the road .. actually i guess there are no
      > rules .. many of these people come from small villages where there are no
      > cars at all.. these people step off the sidewalk and never look . ?i drove
      > motorcycles in the USA for many years and never had the near death
      > experiences i face here daily on my commute. ?the govenment gives the
      > handicap people these three wheel vehicles and part of the idea is they can
      > make a living as small taxis. these people have zero training .. just some
      > kind of basic training would solve 99% of the problems. . i don't know about
      > you but we were actually taught road safety rules when we were in grade
      > school .. actually i think the fatality rate is a lot higher here than
      > anyone knows ...
      >
      > but i would never give up the bike as riding the public transportation
      > sucks. ..and if i peddal my bike i arrive at work soaked in sweat and have
      > to change clothes in the toilet... having an electric bike gives me the
      > dependability and independence i need but not the hassle of owning a car.
      >
      > insanity rains here ...
      >
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:57 PM, brucedp5 <brucedp3@...> wrote:
      >
      >>
      >> China e-bike ban could mean U.S. e-moped sales?
      >>
      >> http://english.cri.cn/6909/2011/06/21/2821s644087.htm
      >> [image] Future Of Electric Bicycles in China Uncertain
      >> Web Editor: liuranran ?2011-06-21
      >>
      >> [image ?Photo: China Economic weekly
      >>
      >> http://english.cri.cn/mmsource/images/2011/06/21/06674c2d84704c8cabf0443ebc0a5ed1.jpg
      >> The Ministry of Public Security and the General Administration of
      >> Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine jointly issued the
      >> notice, which strengthened restrictions regarding electric bicycles
      >> on the 18th of March, which represented one step in phasing out
      >> e-bikes that exceed speed and weight limits.]
      >>
      >> The electric bicycle industry is facing difficulties in China and
      >> its future seems uncertain after Shenzhen's banned the use of
      >> electric bicycles in June. The China Economic weekly reports that
      >> electric bicycle manufacturers and the industry association are
      >> under stress.
      >>
      >> The ban, put forward by the Shenzhen municipal commission of
      >> transport and the public security bureau, has been in effect on
      >> Shenzhen's main streets since the 6th of June.
      >>
      >> The Ministry of Public Security and the General Administration of
      >> Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine jointly issued the
      >> notice, which strengthened restrictions regarding electric bicycles
      >> on the 18th of March, which represented one step in phasing out
      >> e-bikes that exceed speed and weight limits.
      >>
      >> More than 90% of the electric bicycles produced in the country
      >> exceed the standard limit, Ni Jie, chairman of Zhejiang Luyuan
      >> Electric Vehicle Co. Ltd said.
      >>
      >> As a "Silent Killer", e-bicycle is capable of high speeds with no
      >> registration requirement and insurance. Since there is no license
      >> plate to track them down, riders can easily flee after an accident,
      >> making it difficult for victims to claim damages.
      >>
      >> At present, the number of electric bicycles has reached 120 million
      >> in China, while the total number of motor vehicles is approximately
      >> 199 million.
      >> [Copyright by CRIENGLISH.com, 1998-2011 Registered Number:05064898]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/China-bans-e-bikes-rather-than-creating-laws-for-safe-use-tt3610560.html
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> {brucedp.150m.com}
      >>
      >> --
      >> View this message in context:
      >> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/China-should-register-lower-e-bike-speed-require-insurance-lic-plate-tp3629605p3629605.html
      >> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
      >> Nabble.com.
      >>
      >> _______________________________________________
      >> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. ?Thanks.
      >> |
      >> | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      >> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      >> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >>
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      > _______________________________________________
      > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. ?Thanks.
      > |
      > | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      --
      David D. Nelson
      http://evalbum.com/1328



      ------------------------------

      Message: 6
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 21:25:55 -0400
      From: Jay Summet <jay@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M
      fringe pos production
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <4E0D2223.2070601@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      Hash: SHA1




      > brucedp5 wrote:
      >>
      >> Drops $85k into UDO (Unidentified Driving Object)
      >>
      >> http://www.suntimes.com/6165933-417/sugar-grove-man-builds-all-electric-car-that-looks-like-floating-pyramid.html
      >>
      >>
      > I can't believe this guy is still pushing this project. It's got to be a
      > terribly inefficient vehicle, isn't it like 8,000 lbs or something? No one
      > is going to buy something this weird in any kind of volume.
      >

      I think it's a great example of a home built art-car. I've been thinking
      that it would be fun to build an electric 4-wheel bicycle that looks
      like the Jetsons car, complete with "pedestrian warning" sound
      effects....but the giant plastic dome would be hard to source.

      Jay
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 7
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 21:37:24 -0400
      From: Jeff Haskell <livepiro@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Have a lead on batteries...thoughts?
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <BANLkTi=4wrCPcO18sLTn5ViUigq5q3HBog@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

      I've been told there are about 40 batteries. I'm going to be picking up 12
      of them, and 4 more are spoken for. Does anyone else want me to pick some up
      for them? I've got space to store them if it'll be a week (or three) before
      you could pick them up; depending on quantity I could even meet you partway
      with them.

      130 lbs each; $100.

      On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 00:33, <cowtown@...> wrote:

      > Based on the specs, stable mains (blue) show just the 8hr rating,
      > semi-stable
      > mains (silver) show up to 1hr rating, but since they are the same
      > weight and dimensions, my question would be why the latter has 20%
      > more capacity, even at the 8hr rate...
      >
      > <<< I think I know what they mean by stable and unstable mains but how
      > would this affect the battery construction? DC. >>>
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
      > |
      > | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 8
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:58:40 -0700 (PDT)
      From: AMPhibian <amp_phibian@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zanis1 pyramid EV builder hyperboles for $3M
      fringe pos production
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <1309489120204-3637357.post@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

      He showed up over at DIY a few years back. He didn't last long after we gave
      him a small dose of reality. He's quite delusional.


      cowtown wrote:
      >
      > <<<< I can't believe this guy is still pushing this project. It's got to
      > be a
      > terribly inefficient vehicle, isn't it like 8,000 lbs or something? No
      > one
      > is going to buy something this weird in any kind of volume. >>>>
      >
      > One market for something over 3 tons that carries one person at low
      > speeds with no brakes or suspension would be as a parade vehicle. It
      > would not be allowed on a golf course.
      >
      > In the article, he states he believes this was "his destiny", but you
      > would think someone in the Fox Valley EV Association to which he
      > belongs would have had the balls to give him a reality check. I think
      > having such a dangerous and inefficient EV getting any press puts EV
      > developers in a bad light.
      >
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
      > |
      > | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >


      --
      View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Zanis1-pyramid-EV-builder-hyperboles-for-3M-fringe-pos-production-tp3634349p3637357.html
      Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



      ------------------------------

      Message: 9
      Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:56:18 -0700
      From: cowtown@...
      Subject: [EVDL] Jetsons' dome
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID:
      <20110701005618.otb41jo0pwswcokc-pbjgbja@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
      format="flowed"

      <<<<I've been thinking
      that it would be fun to build an electric 4-wheel bicycle that looks
      like the Jetsons car, complete with "pedestrian warning" sound
      effects....but the giant plastic dome would be hard to source.>>>>

      You could get a "bubble"-like one here: http://www.modernmicrocars.co.uk/

      or a longer, sleeker one here: http://www.blueskydsn.com/

      Other sources may use "acrylic", "lucite", or "perspex" to describe
      the material.




      ------------------------------

      Message: 10
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 02:21:12 -0700 (PDT)
      From: brucedp4 <brucedp@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] What'd You Miss? ...
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <1309512072588-3637799.post@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


      Compilation of posts not sent to sjsu email subscribed members:

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Pau-France-stages-world-s-first-electric-Grand-Prix-td3546646.html
      Pau, France stages world's first electric Grand Prix

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Nissan-Leaf-EV-tt3242803.html#a3546683
      Re: Nissan Leaf EV
      [1.1M baht EV, Thailand market seeks support reduce gov import barriers
      Leaf EV faces a 80%-import-duty+10%-excise-tax same as a hybrid]

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Oliver-Young-s-quot-Black-Current-quot-VW-Bug-EV-1-4mi-9-51s-135mph-LiCo4-tc3546660.html
      Oliver Young's "Black Current" VW Bug EV 1/4mi:9.51s@135mph LiCo4
      [Fastest ?street-bodied? EV in the world]

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Lotus-series-hybrid-technology-35kW-or-50kW-units-tc3546791.html
      Lotus series-hybrid technology: 35kW or 50kW units
      [Once derided, EVs nibble away at media skepticism]

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/OT-mpge-window-stickers-tt3552255.html#a3566654
      Re: OT: mpge window stickers
      [70% of 2011 models would fail new fuel-economy labeling requirement
      Prius hev would ace such an exam]

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EcoVelocity-2911-at-Battersea-Power-Station-London-8th-to-11th-Sep-2011-tt3593537.html#a3596430
      EcoVelocity 2011 at Battersea Power Station, London - Sept. 8th to 11th

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Suzuki-Swift-Series-Plug-In-Hybrid-slated-for-a-2013-Japanese-launch-td3600241.html
      Suzuki Swift Series Plug-In Hybrid slated for a 2013 Japanese launch!

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/U-S-Army-CERV-diesel-electric-hybrid-at-Indy-500-td3600308.html
      U.S. Army CERV diesel-electric hybrid at Indy 500

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Yo-Avto-starts-hybrid-plant-construction-td3605299.html
      Yo-Avto starts hybrid plant construction
      [Dual fuel Russian hev design using ultracapacitors]

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/pih-M-Class-based-Popemobile-e-range-18-5mi-tt3629747.html
      pih M-Class based Popemobile e-range:18.5mi
      [His Holiness unconvinced EVs can provide emergency acceleration
      thus his followers will have the same old world thinking]

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/2012-Volvo-V60-pih-Station-Wagon-U-S-trials-tt3629777.html
      2012 Volvo V60 pih Station Wagon U.S. trials
      [Not everyone at Volvo was listening: want higher mpge diesel option]

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Hiring-Workers-at-Fisker-Delaware-Plant-for-pih-production-tt3637720.html
      Hiring Workers at Fisker Delaware Plant for pih production

      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tahoe-hev-tested-18-mpge-vs-15-21mpge-of-4WD-Tahoe-ice-tt3637793.html
      Tahoe hev tested 18 mpge vs 15/21mpge of 4WD Tahoe ice
      [A technical marvel, but mpge doesn't reflect the hybrid sophistication]





      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-d-You-Miss-tt3336283.html#a3540216

      {brucedp.150m.com}

      --
      View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-d-You-Miss-tp3336283p3637799.html
      Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



      ------------------------------

      Message: 11
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 02:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
      From: brucedp4 <brucedp@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] EVjobs: Director Engr:QA Electrical EVSE Software UI
      Java Proj Mechanic Technician +
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <1309512756619-3637824.post@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


      http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/sls/2468925729.html
      Regional EV Infrastructure Director Wash DC 2011-06-29

      http://www.jobhost.org/jobs/viewjob/hardware-engineering-manager-dea34c56a4106528?source=indeed&medium=sponsored
      Hardware Engineering Manager IntelliBatt - San Rafael, CA installs
      Battery Monitoring Systems for batteries in the UPS, Telecom, and
      Electric Vehicle marketplace. intellibatt.com is a sister company ...

      http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/bnc/egr/2426464614.html
      Test & Validation Engr Lead VAN-TE-11-45 Burnaby BC 2011-06-07

      http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sof/2465601308.html
      Senior QA Engineer/Lead campbell CA 2011-06-27

      http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sof/2465598662.html
      Senior Engineer/Architect - LAMP/J2EE campbell CA 2011-06-27

      http://austin.craigslist.org/egr/2465708063.html
      Sr. Electrical Engineer Austin, TX 2011-06-27

      http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/egr/2437305148.html
      Electrical Engineer - Automotive Allen Park, MI 2011-06-13

      http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/egr/2416394913.html
      EVSE Design Release Engineer Job Warren, MI 2011-06-02

      http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/egr/2390119921.html
      Sr. Hardware Engr-Battery Management Systems Livonia, MI 2011-05-19

      http://blacksburg.craigslist.org/egr/2420486182.html
      ELECTRICAL,POWER ELECT., & COMP ENGR Charlottesville NC 2011-06-04

      http://charlotte.craigslist.org/sof/2466644395.html
      Software Engineer Mooresville, NC 2011-06-28

      http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/eng/2458397227.html
      UI Designer/Engineer O'Hare Office Park - Lee/Touhy IL 2011-06-23

      http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=101&dockey=xml/d/3/d3109bc304e90371096e1698d0eb1427@endecaindex&c=1&source=20
      Sr Java Developer Engr Juice Technologies LLC - San Diego, CA
      Experience with electric vehicles, smart grid or... energy usage
      including the EV in the garage. We are partnered with General
      Electric to... $100 an hour

      http://www.utilitiesjobs.com/job.asp?id=34340771&aff=AC44BA2E-E3EB-4DBC-8BDB-9FCE01C58B09
      PROJECT MANAGER II (Electric Transportation) w/Supplemental...
      Sacramento Municipal Utility District smud - Sacramento, CA
      and testing of electric vehicles, mobile emission...

      http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bus/2419004259.html
      Electrical Proj Mgr/Estimator oakland lake merritt CA 2011-06-03

      http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/bnc/egr/2426436639.html
      Mechanical Team Lead VAN-ME-11-28 Azure Burnaby BC 2011-06-07

      http://madison.craigslist.org/lab/2443974526.html
      Mechanic Madison WI 2011-06-16

      http://tucson.craigslist.org/gov/2432416948.html
      Lead Buyer - Govt. Purchasing Req'd. Phoenix AZ 2011-06-10

      http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/bnc/ofc/2406529652.html
      Office and Accounting Coordinator Azure Burnaby BC 2011-05-27

      http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mnu/2437143937.html
      EV Technicians (Scholarship provided) Orange County CA 2011-06-13

      http://monterey.craigslist.org/trd/2440039517.html
      Forklift Technician Salinas CA 2011-06-14

      http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/trd/2454480366.html
      Electrician Apprentice novato CA 2011-06-21

      http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ret/2458795550.html
      EV/Green Technology Guru CODA Century City CA 2011-06-23

      http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/sls/2413107596.html
      Auto & Truck Sales-Electric Vehicles tampa FL 2011-05-31

      http://keys.craigslist.org/sls/2441708060.html
      Sales Agent PT Key WestFL 2011-06-15





      EVjobs: 6-1-2011
      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVjobs-Director-Manager-Technician-Engineer-Process-Battery-Test-Controller-Electrical-HW-SW-Sales-tt3566726.html

      {brucedp.150m.com}
      "The best way to predict your future is to create it." -Abe Lincoln

      --
      View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVjobs-Director-Engr-QA-Electrical-EVSE-Software-UI-Java-Proj-Mechanic-Technician-tp3637824p3637824.html
      Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



      ------------------------------

      Message: 12
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 02:37:09 -0700 (PDT)
      From: brucedp <brucedp@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] Peugeot EX1 EV At Goodwood Festival of Speed
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <1309513029024-3637832.post@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


      Built for fun! 0-62mph in just 3.49 seconds

      http://www.motorward.com/2011/06/peugeot-ex1-at-goodwood-festival-of-speed/
      [image] Peugeot EX1 At Goodwood Festival of Speed
      by Arman Barari Jun 27 2011

      [image
      http://www.motorward.com/wp-content/images/2011/06/peugeot-ex1-goodwood.jpg
      Peugeot EX1 At Goodwood Festival of Speed peugeot ex1 goodwood]

      2011 Goodwood Festival of Speed will see the world?s coolest electric
      car, Peugeot EX1, running up the hill.

      Don?t let the fact that the EX1 is an electric car put you down. This
      EV is not built for saving the planet, it?s built for fun! The car?s
      powered by by two electric motors driving each axle with a combined
      power output of 340bhp, with torque at the wheels of 1680Nm which
      enables impressive acceleration with a capability of 0-62mph in just
      3.49 seconds. It?s already set many world speed records for electric
      vehicles. It?s even been featured in Top Gear last year ...

      On Thursday, Peugeot is running a number RCZ Sports Coup?s and new
      508s in both Saloon and SW body style guises in the 2nd Goodwood
      Moving Motor Show. [(c) 2008 - 2011 Motorward.com]
      ...
      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Peugeot-EX1-250kW-340hp-unofficial-0-100kmph-0-62mph-3-49sec-td3224227.html
      Peugeot EX1 250kW/340hp unofficial_0-100kmph/0-62mph:3.49sec
      ...
      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Drop-Dead-Gorgeous-Sexy-EVs-not-your-great-grandma-s-golfcart-anymore-tt3231577.html
      Drop Dead Gorgeous Sexy EVs: not your great grandma's golfcart anymore





      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/UK-s-Gordon-Murray-reveals-ultra-economical-T-27-EV-r-100mi-ts-65mph-td3636169.html

      {brucedp.150m.com}

      --
      View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Peugeot-EX1-EV-At-Goodwood-Festival-of-Speed-tp3637832p3637832.html
      Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



      ------------------------------

      Message: 13
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 04:16:05 -0700 (PDT)
      From: brucedp5 <brucedp3@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Opinion ...
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <1309518965611-3637970.post@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


      As many know I go through a lot of newswires, many of them do not
      make it to the list of those I consider evdl bandwidth use worthy.
      At one time I was posting a regular EVcharging topic
      http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=EVcharging

      I try to tailor what I post to what viewers are interested in. I
      go by the amount of responses/comments, views on the nabble and
      diy evdl archives, and what is picked-up and re-fed on twitter and fb
      feeds. Its my way of knowing if that topic is using evdl bandwidth
      with viewer interest. In the case of EV charging, not so much. So, I
      stopped posting them.

      I would like to share with you what I see in my newswire searches.
      I've already told of the die-down of the media hoopla over EVs since
      the release of the Volt pish and Leaf EV. Newswire EV and pih pieces
      came back up in amount when U.S. petrol price rose.

      As it stands at this point in time, when searching for EV newswires,
      the amount of useful pieces is about less that 5%. As before there
      are still many paid-for pieces that dis-EVs (gloom and doom, no one
      wants them, EVs will end the world as we know it, ... the list is
      too great to go on). Those dis-EVs pieces are about 50%.

      The 45+% left over are EV Charging pieces (Tampa Fl gets new EV
      charging stations, ect.). Folks there is a lot of public EVSE sites
      being installed all across the good ol' U.S. of A.

      energy.gov EV charging finder site is not a good representation of
      what is up and available. Their budget is too low to properly staff
      enough to take database updates from EVSE companies fast enough
      (meaning the energy.gov database is way behind). Recargo registered
      EV drivers are adding sites on a daily basis
      http://www.recargo.com/activity
      that are not on the energy.gov or the some of the EVSE web sites
      (i.e. Coulomb's, etc.).

      There is a lot of EV Charging candy that has gone in, and much more
      is being installed. Most of these are either EVSE with a dual level
      1&2 capability, or level 2 EVSE with regular less-expensive level 1
      120VAC 20A outlet(s) installed along side (its cheaper that way).

      As many know I am keenly interested in EV charging, but others can
      take it or leave it. Personally, I see so many nice post-2010
      Production EVs that only have a wimpy half powered charger on-board.

      I use the word wimpy as it is my opinion, the rest of the Production
      EV is excellent. So, why didn't the manufacturer completed the job by
      including an on-board charger that can use all 6+kW of available
      power available from U.S. public level2 EVSE sites? Or at least give
      the consumer the option to upgrade.

      I use the wording half-powered because of all the post-2010 Production
      EVs I know of, only the Ford Focus Electric EV has an on-board charger
      worthy of the rest of the EV's nice design: it 'can' use all available
      power from a level 2 EVSE. Whereas the rest of the Production EVs
      (i.e. Leaf, many others, etc.) can only push 3Kw into the pack. That
      is half the power that is available to it (!?!).

      Even the sweet little T.27 EV I recently posted about
      http://evdl.org/archive/#nabble-tt3636169
      also comes with a less than half-powered charger ... What gives?

      Imagine buying and driving your sweet new ice ride up to a petrol
      station, and you take twice as long to fill up. All the impatient
      drivers waiting on you to get out of there will glare at you like
      you are filling the tank with an eye-dropper. It would be the same
      embarrassing situation like when your credit/debit card does not
      work at the check out line. Everyone else behind you is
      exasperatingly looking to move to the next line over.

      I do not think automakers only chose to put the smaller capacity 3kW
      charging in because it was cheaper. The 3kW charge fits perfectly for
      plugging into a 240VAC Euro power outlet. Most of the world is running
      off ~200VAC in some form
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Weltkarte_der_Netzspannungen_und_Netzfrequenzen.svg

      So, what we have is a nice EV that is designed to charge in Europe,
      Asia, Australia, NZ ... yet it is the U.S. that is screaming like a
      stuck-pig for EVs because of their first experience with high petrol
      prices (the rest of the world has been paying through the nose for
      petrol, but that is OT so let that go).

      If you are going to sell an EV or pih in U.S. offer an option to
      Americanize the EV to true level 2 6+kW on-board charging. Let U.S.
      consumers have an option to upgrade the on-board charger to use all
      the power public EVSE can provide.

      Perhaps it is Ford that is the wise one of all the Automakers. They
      tailor to their demanding customer base. Not only Ford will be
      offering an EV with a full-power on-board charger, but they will also
      offer a pih, hev and ice versions of the same vehicle. Customers
      will choose what they want.

      Now if only the Leaf, Smart, and other EV makers had that approach.
      I could select the option to remove the wimpy 3kW Leaf
      on-board charger for a 6+kW one. Or I could select to do the same
      on a Smart and also not 'have-to' lease the Smart but buy the EV,
      etc.

      What do you think?





      {brucedp.150m.com}

      --
      View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Opinion-tp3314915p3637970.html
      Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



      ------------------------------

      Message: 14
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 09:36:59 -0400
      From: Mark Hanson <marke.hanson@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] Sagging LiFePO4 T-Sky cell
      To: <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <snt114-w256D0843BE7EB994EB24E3845B0@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


      Hi Willie etc;

      My bad, I forgot to update the www.evalbum.com/2749 electric cat when I changed to Thundersky batteries a couple years ago. I'm using the shunt regulator balancers similar to www.evdl.org/lib/mh circuit shown. Battery (cell) number 15 keeps needing *way* more charge than the rest. After bulk charging the pack and all lights came on as they were balanced to 3.8V, cell number 15 *again* wouldn't get higher than 3.35V. So I put my regulated bench supply on it set to 3.8V for 3 days at 1 amp (about an extra 75ah) just to get that cell to read 3.8V & be charged like the rest. While running it seams to be ok though but initially my battery scanner showed it sagging while on the lake at 7mph 80A. If I don't charge it more than the rest it will sag while running. If it gets an additional 3 days trickle at 3.8V then it's ok. The regulator is not leaking the charge.

      Best Regards,
      mark
      www.reevadiy.org

      Message: 16
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:15:37 -0500
      From: Willie McKemie <mckemie@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] One LiFePO4 T-Sky cell needs 75ah more than rest
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <20110630141537.GP5547@c25>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

      On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 08:17:32AM -0400, Mark Hanson wrote:
      >
      > Hi Folk's,
      >
      > In my www.evalbum.com/2749 E-Cat one of 16 buddy pairs (100ah T-Sky batts pair) never ends at 3.8V with one cycle each Satiurday or Sunday at area lakes noticed on my battery scanner. I charge the slacker 200ah cell/s to 3.8V with a 3.8V bench supply over 3 days at 1A *after* the pack was bulk charged Sunday night after coming back from the lake. All the balancers except number 15 got up to 3.8V. I can't figure out why one cell won't come up & needs extra charge from the rest. It seams to stay at 3.3V on the lake with the rest (if it was previously overcharged).

      I went to look at your EVAlbum page to see what kind of balancers you
      are using and was surprised to see that you say you are using lead
      batteries.

      I've had several balancers fail so that they bypass at low voltages.
      That gives symptoms just as you describe.


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      ------------------------------

      Message: 15
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 09:46:47 -0400
      From: "Mark Grasser" <markgrasser@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sagging LiFePO4 T-Sky cell
      To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <000001cc37f5$5612f560$0238e020$@net>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

      Mark,
      I would pull it from the pack, charge it and then let it sit a week and see
      if it self discharges. I think it should stay up at about 3.4 volts, that is
      where my CALB cells sit when topped up. I suspect you have some serious self
      discharge going on.

      Sincerely,
      Mark Grasser


      -----Original Message-----
      From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On Behalf
      Of Mark Hanson
      Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 9:37 AM
      To: ev@...
      Subject: [EVDL] Sagging LiFePO4 T-Sky cell


      Hi Willie etc;

      My bad, I forgot to update the www.evalbum.com/2749 electric cat when I
      changed to Thundersky batteries a couple years ago. I'm using the shunt
      regulator balancers similar to www.evdl.org/lib/mh circuit shown. Battery
      (cell) number 15 keeps needing *way* more charge than the rest. After bulk
      charging the pack and all lights came on as they were balanced to 3.8V, cell
      number 15 *again* wouldn't get higher than 3.35V. So I put my regulated
      bench supply on it set to 3.8V for 3 days at 1 amp (about an extra 75ah)
      just to get that cell to read 3.8V & be charged like the rest. While
      running it seams to be ok though but initially my battery scanner showed it
      sagging while on the lake at 7mph 80A. If I don't charge it more than the
      rest it will sag while running. If it gets an additional 3 days trickle at
      3.8V then it's ok. The regulator is not leaking the charge.

      Best Regards,
      mark
      www.reevadiy.org

      Message: 16
      Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:15:37 -0500
      From: Willie McKemie <mckemie@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] One LiFePO4 T-Sky cell needs 75ah more than rest
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <20110630141537.GP5547@c25>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

      On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 08:17:32AM -0400, Mark Hanson wrote:
      >
      > Hi Folk's,
      >
      > In my www.evalbum.com/2749 E-Cat one of 16 buddy pairs (100ah T-Sky batts
      pair) never ends at 3.8V with one cycle each Satiurday or Sunday at area
      lakes noticed on my battery scanner. I charge the slacker 200ah cell/s to
      3.8V with a 3.8V bench supply over 3 days at 1A *after* the pack was bulk
      charged Sunday night after coming back from the lake. All the balancers
      except number 15 got up to 3.8V. I can't figure out why one cell won't come
      up & needs extra charge from the rest. It seams to stay at 3.3V on the lake
      with the rest (if it was previously overcharged).

      I went to look at your EVAlbum page to see what kind of balancers you
      are using and was surprised to see that you say you are using lead
      batteries.

      I've had several balancers fail so that they bypass at low voltages.
      That gives symptoms just as you describe.


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      ------------------------------

      Message: 16
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:07:17 -0400
      From: Dave Davidson <davetex99@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Opinion ...
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <BANLkTi=v9FKjja2dJiUOu2=MXXzWVzN1OQ@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      In my first month with my Leaf (just over 1700 miles), I have not
      found the 3.3 kw charger to be a big disadvantage. I normally charge
      at home and drive less than 70 miles a day, so public charging is not
      needed. As public charging is increased and if I start making longer
      trips, I will start using public charging and will have to see how
      well the lighter charger works.

      Witt respect to the Leaf, I understand the ones made in Tennessee will
      have the 6.6kw charger. Last I heard, that plant will start up in late
      2012, so I imagine they will be 2013 models.

      One other thing, most Leafs being sold have the fast charge port. Once
      the fast chargers are deployed, the car can be charged to 80% in 30
      minutes. I also understand the Mitsubishi also has the same port.
      Currently, this hasn't been adopted as a US standard, although it has
      been used in Japan for several years.

      Dave


      On 7/1/11, brucedp5 <brucedp3@...> wrote:
      >
      > As many know I go through a lot of newswires, many of them do not
      > make it to the list of those I consider evdl bandwidth use worthy.
      > At one time I was posting a regular EVcharging topic
      > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=EVcharging
      >
      > I try to tailor what I post to what viewers are interested in. I
      > go by the amount of responses/comments, views on the nabble and
      > diy evdl archives, and what is picked-up and re-fed on twitter and fb
      > feeds. Its my way of knowing if that topic is using evdl bandwidth
      > with viewer interest. In the case of EV charging, not so much. So, I
      > stopped posting them.
      >
      > I would like to share with you what I see in my newswire searches.
      > I've already told of the die-down of the media hoopla over EVs since
      > the release of the Volt pish and Leaf EV. Newswire EV and pih pieces
      > came back up in amount when U.S. petrol price rose.
      >
      > As it stands at this point in time, when searching for EV newswires,
      > the amount of useful pieces is about less that 5%. As before there
      > are still many paid-for pieces that dis-EVs (gloom and doom, no one
      > wants them, EVs will end the world as we know it, ... the list is
      > too great to go on). Those dis-EVs pieces are about 50%.
      >
      > The 45+% left over are EV Charging pieces (Tampa Fl gets new EV
      > charging stations, ect.). Folks there is a lot of public EVSE sites
      > being installed all across the good ol' U.S. of A.
      >
      > energy.gov EV charging finder site is not a good representation of
      > what is up and available. Their budget is too low to properly staff
      > enough to take database updates from EVSE companies fast enough
      > (meaning the energy.gov database is way behind). Recargo registered
      > EV drivers are adding sites on a daily basis
      > http://www.recargo.com/activity
      > that are not on the energy.gov or the some of the EVSE web sites
      > (i.e. Coulomb's, etc.).
      >
      > There is a lot of EV Charging candy that has gone in, and much more
      > is being installed. Most of these are either EVSE with a dual level
      > 1&2 capability, or level 2 EVSE with regular less-expensive level 1
      > 120VAC 20A outlet(s) installed along side (its cheaper that way).
      >
      > As many know I am keenly interested in EV charging, but others can
      > take it or leave it. Personally, I see so many nice post-2010
      > Production EVs that only have a wimpy half powered charger on-board.
      >
      > I use the word wimpy as it is my opinion, the rest of the Production
      > EV is excellent. So, why didn't the manufacturer completed the job by
      > including an on-board charger that can use all 6+kW of available
      > power available from U.S. public level2 EVSE sites? Or at least give
      > the consumer the option to upgrade.
      >
      > I use the wording half-powered because of all the post-2010 Production
      > EVs I know of, only the Ford Focus Electric EV has an on-board charger
      > worthy of the rest of the EV's nice design: it 'can' use all available
      > power from a level 2 EVSE. Whereas the rest of the Production EVs
      > (i.e. Leaf, many others, etc.) can only push 3Kw into the pack. That
      > is half the power that is available to it (!?!).
      >
      > Even the sweet little T.27 EV I recently posted about
      > http://evdl.org/archive/#nabble-tt3636169
      > also comes with a less than half-powered charger ... What gives?
      >
      > Imagine buying and driving your sweet new ice ride up to a petrol
      > station, and you take twice as long to fill up. All the impatient
      > drivers waiting on you to get out of there will glare at you like
      > you are filling the tank with an eye-dropper. It would be the same
      > embarrassing situation like when your credit/debit card does not
      > work at the check out line. Everyone else behind you is
      > exasperatingly looking to move to the next line over.
      >
      > I do not think automakers only chose to put the smaller capacity 3kW
      > charging in because it was cheaper. The 3kW charge fits perfectly for
      > plugging into a 240VAC Euro power outlet. Most of the world is running
      > off ~200VAC in some form
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Weltkarte_der_Netzspannungen_und_Netzfrequenzen.svg
      >
      > So, what we have is a nice EV that is designed to charge in Europe,
      > Asia, Australia, NZ ... yet it is the U.S. that is screaming like a
      > stuck-pig for EVs because of their first experience with high petrol
      > prices (the rest of the world has been paying through the nose for
      > petrol, but that is OT so let that go).
      >
      > If you are going to sell an EV or pih in U.S. offer an option to
      > Americanize the EV to true level 2 6+kW on-board charging. Let U.S.
      > consumers have an option to upgrade the on-board charger to use all
      > the power public EVSE can provide.
      >
      > Perhaps it is Ford that is the wise one of all the Automakers. They
      > tailor to their demanding customer base. Not only Ford will be
      > offering an EV with a full-power on-board charger, but they will also
      > offer a pih, hev and ice versions of the same vehicle. Customers
      > will choose what they want.
      >
      > Now if only the Leaf, Smart, and other EV makers had that approach.
      > I could select the option to remove the wimpy 3kW Leaf
      > on-board charger for a 6+kW one. Or I could select to do the same
      > on a Smart and also not 'have-to' lease the Smart but buy the EV,
      > etc.
      >
      > What do you think?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > {brucedp.150m.com}
      >
      > --
      > View this message in context:
      > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Opinion-tp3314915p3637970.html
      > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
      > Nabble.com.
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
      > |
      > | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >

      --
      Sent from my mobile device



      ------------------------------

      Message: 17
      Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:31:02 -0700
      From: "bruce parmenter" <brucedp3@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Opinion ...
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <1309534262.19664.1469358237@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


      Thanks Dave for your sharing views and Leaf experiences.

      My first year in my S-10 Blazer conversion EV back in 1992 was about
      the same. It had a 90lb boat anchor Bycan charger on-board that could
      only be used as a level 1 overnight charger. My EV did what I needed
      it to do, though it was old 90's technology and not as sweet as your
      ride. I probably spent most of my time getting to know my EV.

      During those first years, there was no public EV charging here in the
      Silicon Valley area (South of SF, CA), and I am fairly sure there was
      none to be had anywhere else. But after a while, an EV driver learns
      where there are permissions to be had to secure access to regular
      outlets on the outside edge of my (at the time) 40 mile range.


      I had read on the Leaf forum that the U.S. made Leaf EVs would have a
      full-powered on-board charger. I look forward to when that happens.


      The fast charging level 3 stations just are not being put in. Even the
      one that was put in 160 miles North-East of here in Sacramento was
      shut down for the same reason more have not been put in: the charging
      has not had approval by the forces that be. As you already said,
      CHAdeMO level 3 charging has not been adopted by the U.S. There are
      other level 3 charging methods vying for the right. The one that wins
      makes the profits.


      Since it will take some time to sort that out, I am focusing on level
      2 charging. Public level 2 EV charging had served me well for the rare
      times I would get time off from work to go push my envelope and enjoy
      my EV in a non-routine way.

      Even though it was the old Avcon EVSE or the even older mcs-100 or
      mcs-400 14-50 outlets on a 40A breaker. I used several of those to
      be able to go to the NEDRA drags in Sacramento. Or to the Corbin
      Sparrow factory tour down South in Hollister. And further South to
      Monterey and back leveraging off RV parks.

      I had planned to follow in the EV-charging steps of other EV drivers
      that were regularly driving their pre-2010 Production ~100 mile EVs
      (EV1, Honda+, RAV4-EV) between LA and Sacramento. That is a 400+ mile
      trip one way. At the time that would have been quite a challenge for
      a conversion EV to attempt.

      Though not 'everyone' would want or need the more powerful 6kW charger,
      a point of mine is it should be made available as an option. Years ago,
      there were vehicle option packages: low-cost manual-tranny with the
      small ice, automatic with the V6, or the V8 towing package (for those
      who love their boat). I would like options, especially since I would
      void the manufacturers' warranty if I installed a beefier charger on my
      own.



      {brucedp.150m.com}




      On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:07 -0400, "Dave Davidson" <davetex99@...>
      wrote:
      > In my first month with my Leaf (just over 1700 miles), I have not
      > found the 3.3 kw charger to be a big disadvantage. I normally charge
      > at home and drive less than 70 miles a day, so public charging is not
      > needed. As public charging is increased and if I start making longer
      > trips, I will start using public charging and will have to see how
      > well the lighter charger works.
      >
      > Witt respect to the Leaf, I understand the ones made in Tennessee will
      > have the 6.6kw charger. Last I heard, that plant will start up in late
      > 2012, so I imagine they will be 2013 models.
      >
      > One other thing, most Leafs being sold have the fast charge port. Once
      > the fast chargers are deployed, the car can be charged to 80% in 30
      > minutes. I also understand the Mitsubishi also has the same port.
      > Currently, this hasn't been adopted as a US standard, although it has
      > been used in Japan for several years.
      >
      > Dave
      -

      --
      http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class



      ------------------------------

      Message: 18
      Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:45:58 -0700
      From: "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] EV's vs Power Generation
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <4E0DEBB6.2050000@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      There has been a discussion about EV's on one of my other lists, one guy
      who has worked for Power Co's, brought up this possible problem:
      Is it valid?

      -------- Original Message --------

      The worst near-term concern for utilities is not baseload power, it's
      distribution. Residential neighborhoods mostly aren't wired for 480V
      3-phase power. They were wired for 240 V, with peak and average kVA
      capacity based on historical data on electrical loads. If a large
      fraction of homes in a neighborhood try to draw 30A at 240V for the
      EV charger for a few hours (or twice that, for 2-car households),
      "pole pig" transformers will die, buried lines will overheat, etc.
      (Yes, clothes dryers and stoves draw comparable amounts of power, but
      they're not on in half the houses at the same time for hours on end.)
      And rewiring entire neighborhoods, *especially* in cities or in newer
      developments where power wiring is underground, will be hideously
      expensive. Transmission lines and substations are also sized for
      current loads; upgrading transformers and switchgear is expensive and
      time consuming, but upgrading transmission lines is, in the US,
      nearly impossible.


      Utility-controlled smart chargers (so the charging load can be spread
      out as evenly as possible) help, but if true EVs (as opposed to even
      plugin hybrids) become popular quickly, there will be major problems.




      ------------------------------

      Message: 19
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:48:18 -0500
      From: Willie McKemie <mckemie@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Opinion ...
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <20110701174818.GA30796@c25>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

      On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 10:07:17AM -0400, Dave Davidson wrote:
      > In my first month with my Leaf (just over 1700 miles), I have not
      > found the 3.3 kw charger to be a big disadvantage. I normally charge
      > at home and drive less than 70 miles a day, so public charging is not
      > needed. As public charging is increased and if I start making longer
      > trips, I will start using public charging and will have to see how
      > well the lighter charger works.

      Same here. Faster charging would be nice in certain cases, but we
      haven't encountered one of those cases. We did 110 charging for the
      first couple of weeks we had the Leaf and did not suffer from it. We
      typically do 80 mile trips, sometimes 90, sometimes 60.

      Range is much more of a problem than charge time. Whenever we need to
      do more than 100 miles, we have to take the (not air conditioned)
      Hyundai.

      --
      Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
      http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
      Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 9 days 4 hours 04 minutes



      ------------------------------

      Message: 20
      Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 16:55:44 +0000
      From: " jukka j?rvinen " <jarviju@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV's vs Power Generation
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <4e0dfc11.0109ec0a.2bd7.ffffde9a@...>
      Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8

      This is valid problem if it ever would be reality. Best way to go around is to enable powerfull charging (more than 1000w or so) off-peak hours. Usually at night while most of us sleep. Simple, effective and cheap.

      Utilities are scared on something OEM auto people keep blabbering about. Fictioinal thingy which helps on ICE sales up.

      -akkuJukka
      @my N8
      ---- alkuper?inen viesti ----
      L?hett?j?: John G. Lussmyer
      L?hetetty: 01.07.2011, 18:45
      To:
      Aihe: [EVDL] EV's vs Power Generation


      There has been a discussion about EV's on one of my other lists, one guy
      who has worked for Power Co's, brought up this possible problem:
      Is it valid?

      -------- Original Message --------

      The worst near-term concern for utilities is not baseload power, it's
      distribution. Residential neighborhoods mostly aren't wired for 480V
      3-phase power. They were wired for 240 V, with peak and average kVA
      capacity based on historical data on electrical loads. If a large
      fraction of homes in a neighborhood try to draw 30A at 240V for the
      EV charger for a few hours (or twice that, for 2-car households),
      "pole pig" transformers will die, buried lines will overheat, etc.
      (Yes, clothes dryers and stoves draw comparable amounts of power, but
      they're not on in half the houses at the same time for hours on end.)
      And rewiring entire neighborhoods, *especially* in cities or in newer
      developments where power wiring is underground, will be hideously
      expensive. Transmission lines and substations are also sized for
      current loads; upgrading transformers and switchgear is expensive and
      time consuming, but upgrading transmission lines is, in the US,
      nearly impossible.


      Utility-controlled smart chargers (so the charging load can be spread
      out as evenly as possible) help, but if true EVs (as opposed to even
      plugin hybrids) become popular quickly, there will be major problems.


      _______________________________________________
      | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
      |
      | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



      ------------------------------

      Message: 21
      Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:18:37 -0700
      From: lektwik <lektwik@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Jetsons' dome
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <BANLkTinsyaDjcSpnvkiECU3jTZUWZoCOUQ@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      How to blow your own plexiglass bubble-
      http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/bubbles/hpvbubbles.htm

      On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:56 AM, <cowtown@...> wrote:
      > <<<<I've been thinking
      > that it would be fun to build an electric 4-wheel bicycle that looks
      > like the Jetsons car, complete with "pedestrian warning" sound
      > effects....but the giant plastic dome would be hard to source.>>>>
      >
      > You could get a "bubble"-like one here: http://www.modernmicrocars.co.uk/
      >
      > or a longer, sleeker one here: http://www.blueskydsn.com/
      >
      > Other sources may use "acrylic", "lucite", or "perspex" to describe
      > the material.
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
      > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. ?Thanks.
      > |
      > | REPLYING: address your message to ev@... only.
      > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
      > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
      > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
      > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 22
      Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:19:53 -0600
      From: Bill Dube <billdube@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV's vs Power Generation
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <20110701172022.B23296F8060@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

      An EV used for commuting, has the same annual energy use as a
      refrigerator. Would your pal be concerned if everyone, slowly over
      time, purchased a second refrigerator?

      When EVs become popular, and the load becomes noticeable on the grid,
      then there will be incentives offered to charge at a lower rate
      overnight, rather than quickly during peak load periods. A comm
      (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
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