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EV Digest, Vol 2, Issue 31

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      Today's Topics:

      1. Re: Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes) (Lee Hart)
      2. Re: Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes) (keith vansickle)
      3. Re: Auto theft devices and EV's (Roland Wiench)
      4. Re: Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes) (Dan Frederiksen)
      5. Re: Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes) (JS)
      6. Re: New Optima Pack (kenscircus@...)
      7. Re: KillaCycle at the NextFest, Sept 13th-16th (keith vansickle)
      8. Is there an EV Magazine - YES (Steven Lough)
      9. Re: Tesla batteries (maybe good news via Valence batteries)
      (Morgan LaMoore)
      10. Re: Battery theory (Morgan LaMoore)
      11. Re: Converting from watt-hours/mi. to mi/gal & bac
      (Morgan LaMoore)
      12. Re: Cheap Temperature Sensor (Morgan LaMoore)
      13. Re: High voltage battery pack safety (Bill Dube)
      14. Re: Hymotion & A123 (Timothy Balcer)


      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

      Message: 1
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:52:04 -0500
      From: Lee Hart <leeahart@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes)
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46E6B9A4.8030909@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      mos6507@... wrote:
      > Economy only gives you so much. You have to still have a certain
      > minimum performance, something lead-acid strains to do (with
      > conversions at least).

      Yes; exactly. With a conversion, lead-acid can give you great
      performance (White Zombie, Current Eliminator, etc.) but the tradeoff is
      poor range. Or, you can get great range (Red Beastie, Sundancer, etc.)
      but trade off performance to get it. If you try to get both at once, you
      wind up with an EV with mediocre range and performance.

      The key is *not* to build conversions, but instead build it as an EV
      from the ground up. Then it *can* offer both range and performance, even
      with lowly lead-acid batteries.

      If you take 1000 lbs out of the weight of a car, and put it back as more
      batteries, you now have a vehicle that weighs the same but has 3 times
      the battery capacity, and thus 3 times the range. For performance,
      you've got 3 times the peak power that you would have had with an EV
      conversion.

      Put another way, you can go from an EV conversion that has a range of 50
      miles and does 0-60 mph in 18 seconds, to an EV with a range of 150
      miles and 0-60 mph in 6 seconds. Sure; you can beat it with advanced
      batteries for 10 times the cost. But for the average Joe, cost is more
      important. This EV will do everything he does with his present car; and
      cheaper too! Now you're talking his language!

      Can we pull it off? I don't know... but I'm certainly going to try!
      --
      Ring the bells that still can ring
      Forget the perfect offering
      There is a crack in everything
      That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
      --
      Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



      ------------------------------

      Message: 2
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:00:37 -0700 (PDT)
      From: keith vansickle <keithvansickle01@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes)
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <394958.15584.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      Lee and list
      You know you are right Lee. Keep working on the
      sunrise.
      Everybody else on the list send Lee money and
      encouragement he is doing good work for us all and he
      is the best chance we have of getting over the
      problems inherent in the EV as real world
      transportation.

      kEVs


      --- Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:

      > mos6507@... wrote:
      > > Economy only gives you so much. You have to still
      > have a certain
      > > minimum performance, something lead-acid strains
      > to do (with
      > > conversions at least).
      >
      > Yes; exactly. With a conversion, lead-acid can give
      > you great
      > performance (White Zombie, Current Eliminator, etc.)
      > but the tradeoff is
      > poor range. Or, you can get great range (Red
      > Beastie, Sundancer, etc.)
      > but trade off performance to get it. If you try to
      > get both at once, you
      > wind up with an EV with mediocre range and
      > performance.
      >
      > The key is *not* to build conversions, but instead
      > build it as an EV
      > from the ground up. Then it *can* offer both range
      > and performance, even
      > with lowly lead-acid batteries.
      >
      > If you take 1000 lbs out of the weight of a car, and
      > put it back as more
      > batteries, you now have a vehicle that weighs the
      > same but has 3 times
      > the battery capacity, and thus 3 times the range.
      > For performance,
      > you've got 3 times the peak power that you would
      > have had with an EV
      > conversion.
      >
      > Put another way, you can go from an EV conversion
      > that has a range of 50
      > miles and does 0-60 mph in 18 seconds, to an EV with
      > a range of 150
      > miles and 0-60 mph in 6 seconds. Sure; you can beat
      > it with advanced
      > batteries for 10 times the cost. But for the average
      > Joe, cost is more
      > important. This EV will do everything he does with
      > his present car; and
      > cheaper too! Now you're talking his language!
      >
      > Can we pull it off? I don't know... but I'm
      > certainly going to try!
      > --
      > Ring the bells that still can ring
      > Forget the perfect offering
      > There is a crack in everything
      > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
      > --
      > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
      > leeahart_at_earthlink.net
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Need a vacation? Get great deals
      to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
      http://travel.yahoo.com/



      ------------------------------

      Message: 3
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:11:21 -0600
      From: "Roland Wiench" <ev_7@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Auto theft devices and EV's
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <BAY114-DAV4FEA4FDEBF63A61A0C595BEC10@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

      Hello Tyler,

      I have built cipher lock systems and install them in very high security
      areas. So when I built my EV, I custom built a 52 switch cipher lock system
      plus interface it with the standard 10 switch cipher lock unit.

      I can pre select any number of switch actions that must be press in a exact
      sequence or the vehicle will not be power up. If the switches are press
      wrong, than you can have any alarm system activated or even put in a call to
      your phone.

      If the switches are press wrong, than you can program a time delay before
      you can try again, or press a certain amount of switches to over ride the
      time delay.

      Also after the door is unlock, there is a certain amount of time for the
      user to de-activate the security system or I can press the correct switches
      to power up the EV which also de-activates the alarms.

      If the vehicle is tilted too much, hood raise, hatch back opens, glass
      broken, this will set off the alarms.

      Normally for me, I only preset a small group of switches in the group of 52
      switches if I am just park for a minute. If I have the vehicle park out of
      site for a long time, then I will program it for the full effect.

      In a EV, the cipher system, turns off the main battery power to the
      controller by the use of two additional high voltage safety contactor, plus
      a high voltage main contactor which is control by a group of plug in glass
      12 volt relays which control by the motor controller.

      Even if a person can raise the hood fast and cut the 12 volt battery cables,
      it will still work which uses a separate chargeable battery or DC-DC
      converter.

      The motor controller 12 volt input control power is also control by another
      12 volt glass plug in relay which is also control by solid state relay and
      then control by the ignition switch which is control by a power pole on the
      AC contactor if the main AC power plug is unplug from the EV.

      You can keep interlocking all the circuits together to make a cipher system
      and it's best to have a minor combination of switches to bypass this system,
      that is mix in with a 52 button unit.

      Roland




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Tyler" <tysimons.list@...>
      To: "EV" <ev@...>
      Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:58 AM
      Subject: [EVDL] Auto theft devices and EV's


      > Hello,
      >
      > I stumbled across EV's a few months ago, and am quite eager do my first
      > conversion. Due to cost restraints, I am stuck in the "can I do it
      > phase". It looks like the only hurdle I may have, is the requirement to
      > install an immobilizer. As of Sept 2007, Manitoba Public Insurance has
      > mandated the use of select immobilizers in vehicles deemed Most at Rick
      > (95%
      > theft rate, I think). My concern is how the immobilizer works, buy
      > cutting
      > power to the starter, ignition and fuel supply. So my question is, has
      > anyone installed any type of anti theft device device in their EV, and
      > what
      > are the opinions on this?
      >
      > Here is the list of MPI approved Immobilizers,
      > http://www.mpi.mb.ca/english/autotheft/TheftImmobilizers.html for more
      > info.
      >
      > *Approved immobilizers *
      >
      > The following immobilizers have undergone extensive testing and have been
      > proven to meet the Canadian Theft Deterrent
      > Standard.<http://www.ibc.ca/en/Insurance_Crime/Prevention_Investigation/Immobilizers/IBC_Approved_Immobilizers.asp>
      > *Name of Product* *Manufacturer/Importer* Autowatch 329 TI PFK
      > Electronics Autowatch
      > 573 PPi PFK Electronics Mastergard M6000 MasterGard Enterprises
      > Powerlock-Canada Ultimate Security Systems
      >
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Tyler
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 4
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:19:24 +0200
      From: Dan Frederiksen <danfrederiksen@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes)
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46E6C00C.4030903@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      well actually, as I see it, with these new promising lifepo prices of
      around 680$/kWh, high performance lithium is now cheaper than lead acid
      given the better peukert and lifespan. although that's cell cost only I
      think that's a fact that's worth mulling over in the mind a few times.

      further, I think it would be a mighty neat trick to be able to reduce a
      typical car by 1000lbs if it has to carry a ton of lead acid. Maybe you
      are thinking about a more lighter construction philosophy in which case
      you actually need lighter batteries too unless you propose an expensive
      carbon fiber construction or other semi exotic materials.
      I agree we can live well with much lighter vehicles but that's
      irrespective of whether it's electric or gas. so conversion is not the
      problem. lead acid is.

      Dan


      Lee Hart wrote:

      >The key is *not* to build conversions, but instead build it as an EV
      >from the ground up. Then it *can* offer both range and performance, even
      >with lowly lead-acid batteries.
      >
      >If you take 1000 lbs out of the weight of a car, and put it back as more
      >batteries, you now have a vehicle that weighs the same but has 3 times
      >the battery capacity, and thus 3 times the range.
      >Sure; you can beat it with advanced
      >batteries for 10 times the cost. But for the average Joe, cost is more
      >important. This EV will do everything he does with his present car; and
      >cheaper too! Now you're talking his language!
      >
      >Can we pull it off? I don't know... but I'm certainly going to try!
      >
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 5
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:45:16 -0700
      From: JS <za145@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla batteries (Was: EV attitudes)
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46E6C61C.4040803@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      keith vansickle wrote:
      > Lee and list
      > You know you are right Lee. Keep working on the
      > sunrise.
      > Everybody else on the list send Lee money and
      > encouragement he is doing good work for us all and he
      > is the best chance we have of getting over the
      > problems inherent in the EV as real world
      > transportation.
      >
      > kEVs


      You can even donate via PayPal, as many of us on this
      list do!

      John in Sylmar, CA
      PV EV



      ------------------------------

      Message: 6
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:48:10 -0400
      From: kenscircus@...
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] New Optima Pack
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <8C9C2AAABB8CB1B-824-B3B6@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

      Thanks Roger,

      I think things are becoming more clear.

      To answer your questions:
      The temperature sensor is taped to the body in the valley between the
      two center cells. The tape is HVAC tape. I think that is about as good
      as you can get without it being inside the battery.

      Actually, no, the pulse phase rarely makes it to 6 hour - typically 2
      or 3. The pulse phase does look at two parameters: temperature and the
      dv/dt of the pulses. When the rate of change of voltage drops below
      10mv between pulses, it stops. Until that time, the pulse width narrows
      as the dv/dt drops.

      I typically draw between 10 to 13 Ah between charges.
      The clampers that I build was set to not interfere with the Zivan's
      pulse phase. To do that, I monitored the peak voltage across the pack
      during a pulse. This was measured very near the end of the phase or the
      maximum voltage ever attained which was 203 volts. Then I divided that
      voltage by the number of batteries (15.6 volts) and set the regulators
      to that voltage. The point was to lessen (but not eliminate) the
      current through the batteries that went over 15.6 and leave the ones
      under 15.6 alone.

      This scheme seems to work well, since the Zivan pulse phase has not
      been affected, and the pack is very well balanced even with three new
      batteries.

      Very good questions, Roger. Sometimes good questions can shed light on
      a subject!

      Ken




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Roger Stockton <rstockton@...>
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 3:47 pm
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] New Optima Pack



      kenscircus@... wrote:

      > There is only one sensor and it is mounted on the center most battery
      > in the set of seven under the seat.

      How is it attached to the battery? The battery internal temp can easily
      be 10C higher than any readily measurable surface, and it is the
      internal temp during charge that matters. The greatest rise in temp
      typically occurs during the CV portion of charge (unless one really
      hammers the battery with an excessive finish rate).

      > I really want to figure this out!

      Does the profile you are running really pulse the batteries at 2.5A for
      6hrs on every charge? I thought the Zivan would terminate the pulsing
      phase after it saw some criteria (such as a flattening of the voltage)
      satisfied.

      How many Ah do you typically consume between charges? 6hrs seems like
      much too long for the finish phase unless those 2.5A pulses are very
      narrow and widely separated.

      I use pulsing type algorithms on my Optimas and other AGMs and don't see
      finish durations of that length even at lower charge rates and deeper
      discharges than you should ever achieve in your NmG (e.g. I'm seeing
      about a 2hr finish at a 1A pulse amplitude on some Optima-size AGMs at
      the moment, and this after pulling about 45Ah from them).

      I would wonder if the first batteries to fail did so because they were
      peaking to higher voltages than the others during finish, or if the
      higher voltages were a symptom of them having vented more than the
      others under the abuse of this seemingly excessive finish charge
      regimen.

      The Zivan finish pulsing will differ from what I've been using, but
      after a 13Ah discharge I was seeing about a 45min finish duration on my
      old Optimas when using 3A pulses. This resulted in about 110% returned
      to the battery. I'd be inclined to not let your Zivan run for the full
      6hrs in finish on every charge cycle.

      If you are letting the Zivan run to completion, then the clampers may be
      a good idea. They may prevent the batteries from enjoying the full
      benefit of the unlimited voltage finish, but by preventing the voltage
      from rising too high they may keep the recombiners from being
      overwhelmed and so prevent the batteries from excessive venting which
      might otherwise kill them even sooner.

      "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"; if your batteries seem happy and are
      performing well with the combination of clampers and the Zivan's long
      pulsing finish, then keep doing what you're doing.

      Cheers,

      Roger.

      _______________________________________________
      For subscription options, see
      http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


      ________________________________________________________________________
      Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
      http://mail.aol.com



      ------------------------------

      Message: 7
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:36:34 -0700 (PDT)
      From: keith vansickle <keithvansickle01@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] KillaCycle at the NextFest, Sept 13th-16th
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <676610.51997.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      Bill those days 13th &14th are limited to school kids.
      what times are you going to be there and can you get
      me in I am a little old to pass for a student but I am
      a teacher.
      thanks
      kEVS
      --- Bill Dube <billdube@...> wrote:

      > The KillaCycle will be on display at the Wired
      > NextFest in the Los
      > Angeles Convention Center Sept 13th through the
      > 16th.
      >
      > Rebecca (Road Princess) Bowering will be there with
      > the KillaCycle
      > for the whole show. I will only be able to be there
      > for the 13th and 14th.
      >
      > http://www.wirednextfest.com/
      >
      > See you there!
      >
      > Bill Dube'
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
      http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html



      ------------------------------

      Message: 8
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:54:43 -0700
      From: Steven Lough <stevenslough@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] Is there an EV Magazine - YES
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46E6D663.3080308@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

      I know they cover hybrids, as well as Alt.Fuel vehicles but here is a
      National Magazine which I did not see mentioned

      The GREEN CAR JOURNAL $1995/year
      http://www.greencar.com/

      --
      Steven S. Lough, Pres.
      Seattle EV Association
      6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
      Seattle, WA 98115-7230
      Day: 206 850-8535
      Eve: 206 524-1351
      e-mail: stevenslough@...
      web: http://www.seattleeva.org



      ------------------------------

      Message: 9
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:57:26 -0500
      From: "Morgan LaMoore" <morganl@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla batteries (maybe good news via Valence
      batteries)
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID:
      <4230c7190709111057p3e8cac5egbfcf20b7a95dbb8c@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      I don't think we can convince them to sell at $5 each at low volume.
      However, we could get 10-20 people together to order at high quantities. In
      a year or two, I'd be interested, and I'd expect that other people would be
      interested now.

      $7500 of batteries would be 11.5kWh with 96kW continuous power rating, and
      it would only weigh 126kg.

      Also, over the next few months, I'll be designing a Lithium-Polymer BMS for
      school. I'll have to check whether it would be legal for me to release the
      design or if it belongs to the school or something.

      -Morgan


      ------------------------------

      Message: 10
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:06:49 -0500
      From: "Morgan LaMoore" <morganl@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery theory
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID:
      <4230c7190709111106q172787afi173009a84797fd6f@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      Dan,

      I don't have much chemistry theory, but I think there's an electric circuits
      explanation.

      The small batteries in parallel can have slightly different values of
      internal resistance. Because of this, the batteries in parallel will
      discharge at different rates, so one will get to empty before the others.

      Also, as they discharge at different rates, the internal cell voltages might
      no longer be the same, so when you change the load, you could get
      circulating currents from one battery charging another. Say one battery is
      at 12.5V and the other is at 12.4V and their combined internal resistance is
      15mOhm. Then You'll get 6.7A from the one battery into the other battery;
      this is just a waste of energy.

      Overall, fewer high Ah cells is easier to balance than more low Ah cells in
      parallel.

      If you use large strings of cells in parallel, it becomes much easier to
      deal with these problems, and there are fewer locations where circulating
      currents can occur.

      This is just using my common sense and what I've read about batteries
      online; I'm no expert, but I think that's how it works.

      -Morgan


      ------------------------------

      Message: 11
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:14:37 -0500
      From: "Morgan LaMoore" <morganl@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Converting from watt-hours/mi. to mi/gal & bac
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID:
      <4230c7190709111114i2d1023bcw997ccb00a8d8925b@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      There's two different measurements here: cost per mile and energy per mile.

      For cost per mile, find energy per mile and multiply by cost per unit of
      energy. (There may be easier ways to calculate for specific energy forms,
      but this generic method will always work.)

      For energy per mile, just take the energy input and divide by the miles
      traveled. For example, for gas:

      (1 gallon of gas)*(36kWh/gallon)/(32 miles)=1100Wh/mile

      The same works for biodiesel, but I don't know the numbers. For electric,
      it's even easier; Wh-meter reading divided by miles.

      -Morgan


      ------------------------------

      Message: 12
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:20:58 -0500
      From: "Morgan LaMoore" <morganl@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cheap Temperature Sensor
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID:
      <4230c7190709111120m73af1812j408e85402c61ac9e@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      Mark Ward <thescreendoctor@...> wrote:
      > The problem with putting a sensor on the outside of a traction motor is that
      > it is already too hot by the time it is picked up by the sensor. The things
      > that burn out internally are probably already gone by the time the heat goes
      > out the case. It is probably better to keep air flow through the motor(via a
      > fan if necessary), and watch the current to establish a "norm" for your
      > system rather than rely on a temperature reading.
      >
      Of course you can't let the outside of the motor get up to a
      temperature that would damage your motor. A reading is still good,
      though, so you know what's normal and what's higher than normal.

      I think the temperature sensor is a lot more useful on the batteries
      than the motor, though.

      -Morgan



      ------------------------------

      Message: 13
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:24:58 -0600
      From: Bill Dube <billdube@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] High voltage battery pack safety
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <20070911182728.1423016187C@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

      I may seem silly, but it makes a big difference if you wear those
      thin blue "mechanics" gloves while you are working on (or near) the
      live parts of the car. You would not ever want to rely on them
      primarily to prevent a shock, but they offer "just one more" barrier
      to current flow if you make a mistake or touch something you didn't intend to.

      If I neglect to put on the gloves, I get shocked once in a while.
      Conversely, when I have worn these silly blue gloves, I have never
      had a shock. Not even once.

      Bill Dube'



      ------------------------------

      Message: 14
      Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:36:54 -0400
      From: "Timothy Balcer" <saltwind@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hymotion & A123
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID:
      <c19365cf0709111136q5544c00braf115100fc989885@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      A123 cells don't explode, mate :)

      On 9/11/07, mos6507@... <mos6507@...> wrote:
      > A blog item from mid august says they were about to do formal crash tests.
      > Any news on that front? Assuming these are simply head-on crashes, they may
      > not reveal anything, but if the BMS is punctured in a rear-end collision I
      > would expect an explosion spectacular enough to fill an Iraqi carbomber with
      > envy.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > That, however, I doubt they can pull off since Tesla has proven through
      > exhaustive testing that their modules based on commodity LiCo work just
      > fine,
      >
      >
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        Today's Topics:

        1. EVLN: East-coast cold weather driving halves iMiev range to
        31mi (brucedp5)
        2. EVLN: Leaf & battery production @Smyrna, TN plant (brucedp5)


        ----------------------------------------------------------------------

        Message: 1
        Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 03:41:43 -0800 (PST)
        From: brucedp5 <brucedp5@...>
        To: ev@...
        Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: East-coast cold weather driving halves iMiev
        range to 31mi
        Message-ID: <1355744503933-4660072.post@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


        iMiev 60mi range only in west-coast fair weather regions

        http://www.plugincars.com/week-mitsubishi-i-miev-125711.html
        [image] A Week with the Mitsubishi I-MiEV: Cute Car Provokes Range Anxiety
        By Jim Motavalli Dec 14 2012

        [image / Jim Motavalli
        http://www.plugincars.com/sites/default/files/mitsubishi%20i-miev%20sales.JPG
        A bargain price helps, but don't expect to make long trips

        http://www.plugincars.com/sites/default/files/mitsubishi%20i-miev%20at%20home.JPG
        The car is cute, kind of fun to drive, but a bit pokey


        video
        http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q-JArWA02Eg
        A Visit With the Mitsubishi i-MiEV
        Jim Motavalli Dec 14, 2012
        The little car is fun and nicely priced, but has some range issues.
        ]

        Most of the time I borrow test cars from the carmakers, but the
        battery-powered and budget-minded Mitsubishi i-MiEV came to me by way of my
        local dealer, who thought I ought to drive it. So it?s been at my house for
        a week, giving me a fairly accurate picture of what it would be like to live
        with this particular electric car.

        On Empty at 31 Miles
        I liked a lot of things about the i-MiEV, but there?s a major range issue.
        After 31.3 miles of around-town driving, where electrics should be
        strongest, I was getting a blinking fuel gauge and three miles of range
        left. The car is supposed to have 62 miles of travel, says the EPA, and I?ve
        seen anecdotal evidence that some people have gotten that and more, but
        probably in California. Others, including some of PlugInCars.com's own
        testers, have seen similar results to mine.

        A major factor for an east coaster like me, I think, is unseasonably cold
        weather. I?ve been blasting the cabin and seat heaters, listening to CDs,
        running the defroster?a bunch of power draws.

        Mitsubishi i-MiEV in the driveway
        Some electrics from start-ups feel flimsy, but the I-MiEV is a major
        manufacturer car and it feel like it, with solid build quality. Everything
        works. The car is also somewhat bare-bones in contrast to competitors like
        the Nissan LEAF, without the latter?s fancy graphic displays and smooth
        interfaces. You get the vital information, but with the sophistication of a
        $10 Casio watch. That said, there is a useful key fob type gizmo to monitor
        your state of charge.

        The Bargain EV?
        Details like that explain how the dealer can offer the i-MiEV for an
        eye-popping $19,995 (inclusive of the $7,500 federal income tax credit and a
        $3,160 discount). That makes it the cheapest electric car on the market, at
        least until the Smart Electric Drive is available next spring. The second
        edition of the Smart, which is much improved, gets a big price drop to
        $17,500 after the credit ...

        That said, the cabin is open and airy and feels big for the size of the car.
        The driver?s seat could have more backwards travel, and the rear seat is a
        too-flat bench with not-great legroom. The rear seats fold, which is good
        because storage is somewhat limited. Access and visibility are both good ...

        The car handles well?think Toyota Corolla or something like that. Its most
        distinctive quality on the road is leisurely acceleration?15 or 20 seconds
        to 60. There are three drive modes: drive, eco (with stronger regenerative
        braking) and B (for even more regen?they told me to use it on downhills). I
        used Eco as the default mode, and didn?t find the regen effect excessive.

        No Highway Car
        My main challenge was range, because I had to pass up using the i-MiEV for
        several highway trips because I didn?t think I could make it back (except on
        the end of tow hook). The most range I ever saw on the in-car display with a
        full change was 46 miles. The car?s 16-kilowatt-hour pack is modestly sized
        for a battery car. I?m going to try not using climate control or the
        (confusing) radio and see how much that helps.

        The included 110-volt charger was easy enough to use, though pulled up to my
        garage, with the port at the rear of the car, a longer cord would have been
        helpful. A full charge takes 12 hours on 110, but I was always able to fully
        charge overnight.
        Cloudy Future

        It?s uncertain what will become of the i-MiEV, which has found hundreds?not
        thousands?of U.S. buyers. Sales have never topped 85 nationally in a single
        month?in November, just 42 found homes (compared to 1,539 LEAFs). Mitsubishi
        head Osamu Masuko recently told the Australian media, in translated remarks,
        ?The i-MiEV is now on life-support, and we are just warning the family that
        the end is near.? Does he mean just in Australia, or everywhere? Mitsubishi
        is evidently turning its attention to the forthcoming Outlander plug-in
        hybrid, which I would indeed expect to sell much better than the i-MiEV
        (which was never advertised much).

        Masuko said that the strong Japanese yen was one reason for its slow sales,
        but it?s probably not the price point that?s the biggest issue. The pool of
        would-be buyers for battery cars isn?t huge, and for many the pricier LEAF
        presents a more attractive package.

        My Connecticut dealer has sold some i-MiEVs to happy customers, most of whom
        are using it for around-town driving. It?s quite possible to have a good
        experience that way. ?The i-MiEV is a commuter car; you can?t expect to use
        it for everything,? the sales manager told me. That?s true, but if your
        wintertime round-trip commute is more than 40 miles, and you don?t have
        charging on both ends, watch out for range anxiety.
        [? 2012 PluginCars.com ]




        For all EVLN posts use:
        http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date

        Here are today's archive-only posts:

        EVLN: EVs dominate EPA list & have completely taken over in the US
        EVLN: Think Twice About You Working On Your Production EV, Please
        EVLN: Mitsubishi-aims EV price leader, MGR sez pih like Toyota
        EVLN: $37k 2013 Ford C-Max Energi pih, First Drive
        +
        EVLN: Leaf & battery production @Smyrna, TN plant


        {brucedp.150m.com}



        --
        View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-East-coast-cold-weather-driving-halves-iMiev-range-to-31mi-tp4660072.html
        Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


        ------------------------------

        Message: 2
        Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 03:44:50 -0800 (PST)
        From: brucedp5 <brucedp5@...>
        To: ev@...
        Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Leaf & battery production @Smyrna, TN plant
        Message-ID: <1355744690835-4660073.post@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


        http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312120172&nclick_check=1
        [image] Smyrna ramps up for Leaf
        Electric cars, battery packs roll off lines at Tennessee plant
        by G. Chambers Williams III Dec 13 2012

        [image / Samuel M. Simpkins / The Tennessean
        http://cmsimg.tennessean.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DN&Date=20121213&Category=BUSINESS03&ArtNo=312120172&Ref=AR&Border=0&Smyrna-ramps-up-Leaf
        Smyrna is heading toward expanded production of the Leaf

        http://cmsimg.tennessean.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DN&Date=20121213&Category=BUSINESS03&ArtNo=312120172&Ref=V1&Border=0&Smyrna-ramps-up-Leaf
        Nissan Leaf electric vehicles get their batteries charged in a parking lot
        at the automaker's plant in Smyrna
        ]

        SMYRNA ? Nissan has begun limited production of its Leaf electric car at its
        manufacturing complex in Smyrna, and it is now using lithium-ion battery
        packs also made at the facility to power the cars coming off the assembly
        line.

        Production of the cars in Smyrna began in September, using batteries
        imported from Japan. The lithium-ion batteries began coming off the line in
        October at the new $1 billion battery plant, which is adjacent to the
        vehicle-assembly facility.

        About 300 workers have been hired so far to staff the battery and vehicle
        assembly lines at the Smyrna complex. An additional 1,000 new employees
        might be added as production cranks up, Nissan said. The Leaf is made on the
        same assembly line as the Nissan Altima sedan and coupe and the Maxima
        sedan.

        The first battery packs assembled at the new facility have completed the
        required several-week ?aging? process that they must go through before being
        installed in the Leaf, Nissan said Wednesday. They are now being used in
        Leaf models that are being assembled at the plant.

        Nissan had built 111 Leaf cars as of Saturday, according to company
        production reports. The first 12 came off the line in September; 27 were
        made in October; and 67 rolled off in November.

        But complete ramp-up of Leaf production is not expected until sometime in
        January. Eventually, the Smyrna plant will provide all of the Leaf cars for
        the North American market. Since the vehicle was launched in December 2010,
        all had come from Nissan?s only Leaf plant, in Japan, until production
        started in Smyrna.

        Smyrna has the capacity to build 200,000 of the battery packs and 150,000 of
        the Leaf cars annually, Nissan said.

        The company said Wednesday that it had sold more than 18,000 Leafs to U.S.
        customers since sales began and had delivered more than 46,000 of the cars
        worldwide since the launch date.

        ?Opening this U.S. plant is an important milestone in Nissan?s overarching
        strategy to foster sustainable mobility around the world,? Nissan Motor Co.
        President and CEO Carlos Ghosn said in a prepared statement.

        Nissan has invested $1.7 billion in the battery plant and expansion of the
        vehicle-assembly line to accommodate production of the Leaf, using a $1.4
        billion loan from the U.S. Department of Energy to finance most of the
        project.

        The Leaf is a four-door compact hatchback based on the chassis of the Nissan
        Versa, and it?s powered entirely by an electric motor and the built-in
        battery pack. The vehicle, which can go about 75 miles between charges, has
        to be recharged from an external power source.

        Prices begin at about $35,000, but some federal and state tax incentives can
        lower the price by several thousand dollars for qualified buyers.

        The cars also are available for lease, starting at payments of about $200 a
        month with a down payment.
        [? 2012 tennessean.com All Rights Reserved]



        http://wpln.org/?p=43858
        Nissan Quietly Opens Smyrna Battery Plant
        Nissan says the first electric car batteries produced at its plant in Smyrna
        are ready to be charged up. The Franklin-based automaker announced the
        official ...
        ...
        http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081082_nissan-builds-first-lithium-ion-cells-for-2013-leaf-electric-car
        Nissan Builds First Lithium-Ion Cells For 2013 Leaf Electric Car (Video)
        ...
        http://www.myperfectautomobile.com/popular-reviews/nissan-leaf-battery.html
        Nissan Announces Giant Battery Facility
        Nissan Motor Co. is marking two years of selling the Leaf all-electric car
        by announcing activation of the largest lithium battery plant in the U.S.
        Sitting directly ...




        For all EVLN posts use:
        http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date

        Here are today's archive-only posts:

        EVLN: EVs dominate EPA list & have completely taken over in the US
        EVLN: Think Twice About You Working On Your Production EV, Please
        EVLN: Mitsubishi-aims EV price leader, MGR sez pih like Toyota
        EVLN: $37k 2013 Ford C-Max Energi pih, First Drive
        +
        EVLN: East-coast cold weather driving halves iMiev range to 31mi


        {brucedp.150m.com}



        --
        View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Leaf-battery-production-Smyrna-TN-plant-tp4660073.html
        Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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