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EV Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1

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      Today's Topics:

      1. Re: Electric Sun Buggy (lyle sloan)
      2. Re: KillaCycle at Bandimere Sat, Sept 1st (was:OMG KillaCycle
      AP article picked up by FOX news) (Jim Husted)
      3. Re: discovery channel (Lee Hart)
      4. Re: Brass Bolts? (Lee Hart)
      5. Re: discovery channel (lyle sloan)
      6. Re: Brass Bolts? (Bruce Weisenberger)
      7. Re: Electric Sun Buggy (Lee Hart)
      8. Re: Brass Bolts? (dale henderson)
      9. Re: discovery channel (Dan Frederiksen)
      10. Re: A123 Battery Feasibility (Joseph T. )
      11. Re: Think chargeque (David Roden)
      12. Re: Why doesn't regen work with DC (David Roden)
      13. Re: Why doesn't regen work with DC (David Roden)
      14. Re: Magazine dedicated to EVs? (David Roden)
      15. Re: Proper care and feeding of lead acid (David Roden)
      16. Re: Why doesn't regen work with DC (David Roden)
      17. Radio interview (Jim Husted)
      18. Re: A123 Battery Feasibility (dannym@...)
      19. unsubscribe (Jem)
      20. Re: discovery channel (Dave Cover)
      21. Re: Magazine dedicated to EVs? (Peter Eckhoff)
      22. Test Drive Motor Stink (Jude Anthony)
      23. Re: 3178 lb.S10 runs in 12s (KilowattA798@...)
      24. Re: I never say White Zombie runs 12's (KilowattA798@...)
      25. Re: Think chargeque (Mark Dutko)
      26. Re: Magazine dedicated to EVs? (michael wendell)
      27. Re: Brass Bolts? (joe)
      28. Re: Test Drive Motor Stink (joe)


      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

      Message: 1
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:48:16 -0700 (PDT)
      From: lyle sloan <slodown27@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Sun Buggy
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <839087.11640.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      Just in case this wasnt mentioned earlier in the
      thread, here are some links with already built ones
      that you can base actual performance. See if the
      vehicles weights are within the range taht you
      envision. Also, I recommend asking the owners some of
      these questions in case they are not on this list.

      I do tend to agree taht desert heat would be bad for
      the batts and their life and performance seriously
      shortens. The batts may not last as long as you
      think. If you do build a prototype electric buggy for
      your company, I would recommend another ICE buggy
      accompany the electric with a built-in
      alternator-inverter charger just incase your electric
      dies from customer misuse and incase the solar panel
      idea doesnt work as the sun sets. Maybe attach a
      slave cable to a tow cable so taht the recovery
      vehicle charges the batts as it is towing it. [Of
      course this may seem too elaborate, just keep a
      portable genny handy.] :-)

      *******Quote********
      > > > Perhaps the battery pack could be changed at the
      > end of each
      > > > 2 hour tour and the old pack plugged into a
      > charger for the
      > > > next trip?
      You know, back at base camp for charging you dont
      necessarily have to use a generator- a large battery
      bank could be used to dump charge into the depleted
      pack. But considering (as I understand it) that you
      are going into the desert convoy-style, this is just
      one more thing to bring into the park.

      Anyways here are the links:

      electric dune buggy built by aevehicles
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHR3a7mCiEk

      Paul Gooch's VW tub dune buggy
      http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?dismode=article&artid=180
      http://www.evalbum.com/125

      electric sandrail (work in progress)
      http://www.kevin-coughlin.com/

      voltbuggy
      http://www.dm3electrics.com/
      http://www.coolfuelroadtrip.com/


      --- ZillaVIlla wrote:

      > if the batteries were light enough, they could be
      > taken out and left on the
      > trailer at the staging area to charge during the
      > next tour with an onsite
      > diesel generator (not ideal I know but it's off the
      > grid), perhaps a 2 or 4
      > part pack to get the individual weight down under
      > 100 lbs each. I thought
      > it would be really trick to build battery poles out
      > of some type of small
      > cells (think of d-cell sized batteries rigged into
      > shrink wrap in 4 foot
      > long tubes) that could fit inside of the 1.5" frame
      > tubing thus hiding the
      > power source. Hide the wires inside the tubing so
      > all that's partially
      > exposed is a small controller box and ac motor on
      > the center of the rear
      > axle and you'd get asked "how's it go?" they're
      > independent suspension with
      > a locked rear axle which is better traction in sand
      > but it also makes it so
      > you have to slide to turn(they're setup to drive
      > fun. there's no front
      > brakes which enables you to steer during full lock
      > panic stops. Ideally,
      > with enough torque, you'd just have a motor with
      > shafts coming out both
      > sides that the CV joints could bolt right up to,
      > then no more chain to mess
      > with. they only use perhaps 2 gallons per tour,
      > these are Honda generator
      > motors which in stock form spin at 1800 rpm and make
      > 24 HP, we spin them at
      > around 4100 to 4400 rpm depending on how fast we
      > want the top speed to be.
      > we don't modify the motors we just adjust the built
      > in speed governor.
      >
      > The vroom vroom is definitely an appealing draw for
      > many, but not all of our
      > customers. personally I like the sound of the tires
      > rolling, but not the
      > suspension squeaking. A speaker with a speed
      > variable sound could put this
      > back in the mix and it could sound however you want
      > it to - perhaps like the
      > flying cars on the old Jetsons cartoon show.
      >
      > I love this forum for the technical "what ifs" that
      > pour through here. at
      > some point battery technology will be cheap enough
      > that gas won't make sense
      > for this application anymore. we spend I think
      > about $4,000 a week on gas
      > at our Las Vegas location but that's buggies,
      > shuttles, and trucks combined.
      >
      > other benefits would be to impress the BLM Bureau of
      > Land Management who
      > permit us to operate on this land on how
      > environmentally friendly we are.
      > We already send our guides out picking up trash
      > everyday. People camp in
      > this area and leave all kinds of junk, we get lots
      > of it out just to be
      > cool.
      >
      > we get perhaps 1 rollover every 2 weeks. we run
      > these thing really hard but
      > they're very stable and very hard to roll over.
      > When they do roll, oil get
      > in the wrong parts of the engine and they will not
      > turn over until it's been
      > pumped out of the cylinders, and the sealed lead
      > acid batteries we use to
      > start them don't like being upside down either.
      >
      > I believe the cost for the ICE part of the buggies
      > runs about $4,000 per
      > car, the frame and suspension we fabricate ourselves
      > so adaption to electric
      > motor mounts and position can be altered.
      >
      > Electric could also let me keep the center of
      > gravity much lower thus
      > improving it's resistance to rolling over and that's
      > just that much safer.
      > the whole appeal of these is you can drive like a
      > maniac in relative safety.
      > which brings me back to long skinny batteries so
      > they could rest in the
      > floor and be changed by pulling out from the rear of
      > the car.
      >
      > thanks again for the insights.
      >
      >
      > On 8/31/07, Roger Stockton <rstockton@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > ZillaVIlla wrote:
      > >
      > > > I currently work for a dune buggy adventure
      > company in Las
      > > > Vegas (gets up to 115 degrees here regularly
      > during the summer)
      > > > http://www.sunbuggyfunrentals.com
      > > > Our Buggies are powered by 670cc Air and Oil
      > Cooled V Twin
      > > > motors and mostly run 2 hour long adventures on
      > varied terrain
      > > > uphill, downhill, sand, hard pack,rocks, and
      > gravel. In their
      > > > current configuration the top speed is about 50
      > MPH but they
      > > > rarely see over 35 MPH
      > > >
      > > > we have about 50 of these and are building more.
      > >
      > > How many do you add to the fleet each year?
      > >
      > > I think that replacing your present fleet would be
      > a decent enough
      > > volume to perhaps allow you to get better pricing
      > on components or even
      > > access to parts individual hobbiests can only
      > dream about, but
      > > realistically you might be looking at only
      > building perhaps 10 vehicles
      > > a year on an ongoing basis.
      > >
      > > > Perhaps the battery pack could be changed at the
      > end of each
      > > > 2 hour tour and the old pack plugged into a
      > charger for the
      > > > next trip?
      > >
      > > How much time is available between trips? The
      > pictures on your site
      > > suggest the buggies are carried to/from the tour
      > start on a car-carrier
      > > type arrangement and it might be a pain to add an
      > extra unload/re-load
      > > step at your base if the buggies aren't presently
      > unloaded between trips
      > > anyway.
      > >
      > > How much time do the buggies spend on the trailer;
      > might it make sense
      > > to charge them while on the trailer?
      > >
      > > > In the current configuration the Buggies weigh
      > about 800 Lbs.
      > > > I figure you'd save weight in the engine to
      > motor conversion
      > > > and then gain it back with your gasoline to
      > battery conversion.
      > >
      > > What does the present engine, CVT, and chain drive
      > weigh? How much fuel
      > > does the tank hold?
      > >
      > > There is no doubt an electric buggy would end up
      > weighing a few hundred
      > > pounds more, but the basic buggy is so light that
      > the
      > > battery-to-curb-weight ratio should still be much
      > better than most any
      > > on-road EV. Performance should still be at least
      > equal to the ICE
      > > despite the weight, and the EV could seem more
      > powerful than the ICE by
      > > virtue of having better low end torque and
      > smoother torque application
      > > when starting.
      > >
      > > > These things bounce LOTS so I don't know if it'd
      > be better to
      > > > go with a certain type of battery over another.
      > >
      > > It would bias me toward spiral wound AGMs such as
      > Optimas, if going with
      > > lead acid. How often do your customers flip the
      > buggies? Ultimately
      > > that would be the deciding factor between using
      > floodies of any sort or
      > > not.
      > >
      > > > Expect that each buggy would run 4 times a day
      > for 2 hours each
      > > > time, every day 365 days a year.
      > >
      > > How much idle time between runs? How much time
      > spent in transit?
      > >
      > > > if they cost $13,000 to build now (we make them
      > from "Scratch"),
      > > > where does it become cost effective to go
      > electric
      > > > (initial investment VS. operating expense)?
      >
      === message truncated ===




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      ------------------------------

      Message: 2
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Jim Husted <hi_torque_electric@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] KillaCycle at Bandimere Sat, Sept 1st (was:OMG
      KillaCycle AP article picked up by FOX news)
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <413367.32626.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


      --- Bill Dube <billdube@...> wrote:

      > We are racing this coming Saturday, Sept 1st at
      > Bandimere Speedway.
      > You didn't miss it, yet....

      Hey Bill

      Just wanted to give you a shout out and wish you and
      crew the very best and hope you have an awesome day
      racing tomorrow!

      Here's hoping you guys (and gal) push into the 7's 8^)

      Cya
      Jim Husted
      Hi-Torque Electric



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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      http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/



      ------------------------------

      Message: 3
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:13:40 -0500
      From: Lee Hart <leeahart@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] discovery channel
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8D8E4.9030401@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      Sharon G Alexander wrote:
      > The Discovery Channel has asked me to build 5 conversions for them,
      > they will be having a program about EV conversions soon, So I have to
      > build 5 of them, if I don't already have enough work to do. but the
      > pay is going to be good. The first one will be a V W Thing, of all
      > things. Wayne @ www.ev-blue.com

      Congratulations! Hope you have enough time to do a good job for them.
      Let us all know if we can be of any help.

      --
      Ring the bells that still can ring
      Forget the perfect offering
      There is a crack in everything
      That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
      --
      Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



      ------------------------------

      Message: 4
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:15:29 -0500
      From: Lee Hart <leeahart@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Brass Bolts?
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8D951.7000309@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      Ryan Stotts wrote:
      > I looked for copper bolts, but haven't found any yet(ever seen them?).

      Sure, they exist. I see them now and then on electrical equipment
      (relays, buss bars, etc.) so someone makes them.

      > Would it be better to use brass bolts instead of stainless steel bolts?

      Well, normal (yellow) brass has about 4 times the resistance of copper.
      But stainless steel has more like 10 times the resistance!

      --
      Ring the bells that still can ring
      Forget the perfect offering
      There is a crack in everything
      That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
      --
      Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



      ------------------------------

      Message: 5
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
      From: lyle sloan <slodown27@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] discovery channel
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <552508.44554.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      Congratulations! That seems like alot of work and
      great promotion for your biz.

      Unfortunately, beware the producers and directors,
      they will wave that contract at you and beat you on
      the nose with it like a bad dog. I dont know this
      personally, but I watch alot of build shows and
      frequent other forums with members that have been on
      these builds. I guess it is all in the name of
      entertainment :-(


      --- Sharon G Alexander wrote:

      > The Discovery Channel has asked me to build 5
      > conversions for them, they will be having a program
      > about EV conversions soon, So I have to build 5 of
      > them, if I don't already have enough work to do. but
      > the pay is going to be good. The first one will be a
      > V W Thing, of all things.. Wayne @ www.ev-blue.com
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Need a vacation? Get great deals
      to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
      http://travel.yahoo.com/



      ------------------------------

      Message: 6
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Bruce Weisenberger <darnthedog@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Brass Bolts?
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <654837.32450.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      Have you tried your local True Value or Ace Hardware
      stores. I have them in Arizona. Also I have seen brass
      in boating stores.
      Grainger is another possibility.


      --- Ryan Stotts <stotts.ryan@...> wrote:

      > I looked for copper bolts, but haven't found any
      > yet(ever seen them?).
      >
      > When using buss bars to connect batteries(example):
      >
      > http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/graphics/stack.jpg
      >
      > Would it be better to use brass bolts instead of
      > stainless steel bolts?
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
      http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow



      ------------------------------

      Message: 7
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:05:11 -0500
      From: Lee Hart <leeahart@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Sun Buggy
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8E4F7.70907@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      Another thought occurred to me. This might be a good application for a
      hybrid type vehicle; half batteries, half ICE. You could use a really
      small reliable quiet clean ICE to power a generator, which provides a
      steady charge for a relatively small battery pack. Then use a decent
      sized electric motor and controller for fast hill-climbing and
      "exciting" performance.

      --
      Ring the bells that still can ring
      Forget the perfect offering
      There is a crack in everything
      That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
      --
      Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



      ------------------------------

      Message: 8
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
      From: dale henderson <hendersonmotorcycles@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Brass Bolts?
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <353053.52820.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      there is a small demand for non-magnetic parts for the
      paleomagnetic field of geology. they might be a
      source for these items, if you can not find what you
      want i can dig in to my old contacts for stuff.

      speaking of which there was a thread that died quickly
      about magnetic fields on humans: keep in mind many
      people have spend a lot of time in extreme magnetic
      fields without issue. i don't claim all magnetic
      fields are safe [for more than one reason] but
      currently their is little reason to worry about it.
      MRIs are common in hospitals and 'zero' magnetic
      fields are are common in 'paloemagician' work


      --- Ryan Stotts <stotts.ryan@...> wrote:

      > I looked for copper bolts, but haven't found any
      > yet(ever seen them?).
      >
      > When using buss bars to connect batteries(example):
      >
      > http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/graphics/stack.jpg
      >
      > Would it be better to use brass bolts instead of
      > stainless steel bolts?
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >


      Albuquerque, NM
      http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
      http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
      http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
      http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
      http://geocities.com/solarcookingman



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
      http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469



      ------------------------------

      Message: 9
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:11:31 +0200
      From: Dan Frederiksen <danfrederiksen@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] discovery channel
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8D863.7060602@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      wow sounds nice. I hope they will be nice presentable cars and not old
      junkers.
      how does it work, why 5 and do they pay for everything and let you keep
      them or will they be sold or what?

      Dan

      Sharon G Alexander wrote:
      > The Discovery Channel has asked me to build 5 conversions for them, they will be having a program about EV conversions soon, So I have to build 5 of them, if I don't already have enough work to do. but the pay is going to be good. The first one will be a V W Thing, of all things.. Wayne @ www.ev-blue.com
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 10
      Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 00:19:46 -0400
      From: "Joseph T. " <jat1793@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID:
      <28f53d0e0708312119l3c857073kbf0cf1bdd808c0fe@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

      Some comments..

      To Morgan, super cool that you got the A123 and flooded batteries
      working together. How do they work together? Are the batteries still
      in good "health"?

      Marty said/asked...

      "Which pack would you program the controller for?"

      Well, I don't think it matters because as long as the battery voltage
      is within the controller's input voltage range, you should be fine.

      "You end up trying to accelerate a vehicle that
      is carrying the weight of the floodies with just the small A123 pack. I'm
      just a clueless newbie, but that sounds like trouble to me. "

      I am also a newb! I don't think it'd be a problem though. The A123
      batteries are so light, and yet so powerful, that I think they can
      easily pull around an EV loaded with batteries.

      "I think you need the current of the floodies plus the A123s to
      significantly improve
      acceleration with all that weight on board."

      Too complicated for me! They're both different chemistries, and both
      need to be treated very differently. So you'll need a bunch of fancy
      electronics for that.

      "I'm not big on caps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but every cap I've ever seen
      drops voltage linearly with state of charge."

      Yeah, caps aren't too good for EVs. Although there is a secretive
      company (they don't even have a website!) working with ZENN cars to
      make what they claim is some miracle capacitor that is above and
      beyond any battery today, and at a super cheap cost. Time will tell if
      it is just a bunch of hype.

      On 8/31/07, Morgan LaMoore <morganl@...> wrote:
      > I think using Floodies with A123's would work really well if you had a
      > custom DC-DC converter to balance them. Think of it this way: build a
      > high-power DC-DC converter with 2 inputs and 1 output. Then your
      > controller can decide how to split the load between the packs
      > depending on the output current, and the motor can't tell the
      > difference. (If you want regen too, that'll add some complexity.)
      >
      > On 8/31/07, Marty Hewes <marty@...> wrote:
      > > Typically the controller has a setting for battery (and maybe also motor)
      > > current limiting, right? Which pack would you program the controller for?
      > > And if the A123 pack was significantly smaller than the floodie pack, will
      > > it supply significantly more current than the floodies (which will be
      > > disconnected) could anyway? You end up trying to accelerate a vehicle that
      > > is carrying the weight of the floodies with just the small A123 pack. I'm
      > > just a clueless newbie, but that sounds like trouble to me. I think you
      > > need the current of the floodies plus the A123s to significantly improve
      > > acceleration with all that weight on board. Kinda like EV nitrous.
      > >
      > > Has anyone successfully run two packs with two controllers into one motor?
      > > I would think results would be unpredictable depending on whether the PWM
      > > on-times overlapped or not. I could see using a second controller to
      > > control current from the floodie pack to the high current pack, but why
      > > limit it to charge current, why not have it add a few hundred amps during
      > > acceleration? You've got it, why not be able to use it?
      > >
      > > I'm not big on caps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but every cap I've ever seen
      > > drops voltage linearly with state of charge. The discharge curve is totally
      > > different than batteries. To put out sufficient voltage at 50% DOD they
      > > would have to start with nearly twice the voltage of batteries, requiring a
      > > high voltage controller, and making charging from the batteries difficult.
      > > If you started with them at the same voltage as the batteries, they wouldn't
      > > pull for long before the voltage dropped badly, and then they'd try to draw
      > > a heck of a lot of current if you slapped them across the battery to try to
      > > recharge them. I suspect trying to mix batteries and caps would cause much
      > > more trouble than mixing similar batteries. That's why I like the idea of
      > > mixing AGM and floodie, they are both lead acid with similar discharge
      > > curves, just different internal resistances, which also happen to be your
      > > current limiting resistors, right?
      > >
      > > Now I could see having a small cap across the controller input to hold the
      > > voltage up during the switch just so the controller doesn't momentarily see
      > > 0 volts in, but it wouldn't have to be big.
      > >
      > > Marty
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Joseph T. " <jat1793@...>
      > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      > > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 5:17 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility
      > >
      > >
      > > > Thank you for all the responses. Although I think I may have cause a
      > > > bit of confusion. I'll clear it up a bit.
      > > >
      > > > My idea doesn't use capacitors instead of A123. What I thought is to
      > > > have a capacitor keep the power running to the controller temporarily
      > > > while the A123 battery back is being switched on. That way, the
      > > > controller never "suffers" a loss of power. Lee above, however,
      > > > pointed out to just switch to the A123 battery pack while your foot is
      > > > off the pedal instead. It'll be like changing gears!
      > > >
      > > > Bill and Lee mentioned having different controllers. In my idea, I'd
      > > > have two completely separate packs, with two completely different
      > > > chargers. But I never meant to have two different controllers. I'd
      > > > imagine it working like this...
      > > >
      > > > Go into the car. Turn it on. You're now using the lead-acid pack. You
      > > > wanna go on the highway. Bam! You switch to the A123 pack. The very
      > > > same controller that was before controlling the lead-acid, is now
      > > > controlling the A123 pack.
      > > >
      > > > Is there a problem with having the same controller for both packs? Of
      > > > course the controller won't be "controlling" both packs at the same
      > > > time.
      > > >
      > > > Also, I've heard that the chargers from metricmind.com are supposed to
      > > > be very good, and very versatile. Are they versatile enough to charge
      > > > an A123 pack of very low amp-hour? MetricMind also sells
      > > > lithium-based-battery balancers, but they're not supposed to be
      > > > suitable for low amp-hour packs. :( Either I make my own balacers
      > > > that will involve alot time (and explosions maybe) or I'll naively
      > > > wait for someone to make A123/lithium based balancers.
      > > >
      > > > On 8/31/07, David Dymaxion <david_dymaxion@...> wrote:
      > > >> Is there any reason you couldn't use your charger as the "feed
      > > >> controller?"
      > > >>
      > > >> ----- Original Message ----
      > > >> From: Bill Dube <billdube@...>
      > > >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      > > >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:38:13 PM
      > > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility
      > > >>
      > > >> The hybrid pack concept has been discussed many times over the years.
      > > >>
      > > >> Once you think it through, the they way to do it is to have
      > > >> a higher voltage pack of flooded batteries, and a slightly lower
      > > >> voltage pack of high-power batteries (like A123 or perhaps peppy
      > > >> AGMs). You Connect the controller to the high-power pack in the
      > > >> normal manner. You then put a second, much smaller, PWM controller
      > > >> ("feed" controller") from the floodie pack to the high-power pack.
      > > >>
      > > >> You run the car with the high-power pack and then set the
      > > >> feed controller to keep it topped up at a current rate that is
      > > >> acceptable to the floodie pack.
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >> ____________________________________________________________________________________
      > > >> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
      > > >> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
      > > >> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
      > > >>
      > > >> _______________________________________________
      > > >> For subscription options, see
      > > >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > > _______________________________________________
      > > > For subscription options, see
      > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _______________________________________________
      > > For subscription options, see
      > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      > >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 11
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:11:02 -0400
      From: "David Roden" <evpost@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Think chargeque
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8BC26.12976.23C056F@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

      On 30 Aug 2007 at 20:12, Mark Dutko wrote:

      > I fixed my charger issue, I opened up the back and found the inside
      > looked like it had been on fire for a week of so.

      Whoa. What IS that gunk that's all over it? That charger looks like items
      that I've found sitting in attics of old houses for 75 years.
      David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      EVDL Administrator

      = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
      EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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      Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
      reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
      email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 12
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:11:02 -0400
      From: "David Roden" <evpost@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why doesn't regen work with DC
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8BC26.21705.23C0597@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

      On 29 Aug 2007 at 10:20, Jeff Major wrote:

      > So [if] you use extra energy
      > from your battery going up the hill, regen can get you
      > back some of that energy when you go down. How much?
      > Obviously not all. 50%, maybe, best case.

      Here's a case study of sorts - a situation in which regenerative braking
      made a very substantial contribution.

      http://www.brusa.biz/applications/e_mini_evergreen.htm

      David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      EVDL Administrator

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      EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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      reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
      email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 13
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:11:02 -0400
      From: "David Roden" <evpost@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why doesn't regen work with DC
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8BC26.1071.23C0547@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

      On 29 Aug 2007 at 10:22, Roland Wiench wrote:

      > REGEN is very expensive to install in a EV and some ev's may not have the room
      > to install it.

      Careful, this is only true if the EV uses a series motor and simple
      controller. With a separately excited DC motor or an AC induction motor,
      and possibly with other types, adding regen is almost trivial to implement
      and uses very little additional space.

      David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      EVDL Administrator

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      EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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      reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
      email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 14
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:11:02 -0400
      From: "David Roden" <evpost@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magazine dedicated to EVs?
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8BC26.11031.23C05E7@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

      On 31 Aug 2007 at 5:16, Peter Eckhoff wrote:

      > What might be more useful is to glean all the **useful** information
      > that has passed through this site into an online reference or enhance
      > the EV wiki.

      That's what the archives are for.

      David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      EVDL Administrator

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      EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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      reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
      email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 15
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:11:02 -0400
      From: "David Roden" <evpost@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8BC26.17833.23C0641@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

      On 28 Aug 2007 at 15:39, ampaynz1 wrote:

      > schumacher makes a computer smart 6 v
      > charger that puts out 6amps/hr ...

      Please don't take this personally, and I don't mean to be petty, but there
      is an error in this statement that really should be corrected to help
      novices understand the electrical principles that apply to EVs.

      There is no such unit as "amps per hour." It's a nonsense unit, and I mean
      that quite literally. It's kind of like specifying the size of a house in
      square feet per hour.

      I assume you meant to wrote "amps" or "amperes," which would make sense in
      this context.

      It might be time again to suggest that EVDL members read Edward Ang's page :

      http://www.evsource.com/articles/mind_your_units.php

      > Also, you could connect desulfators, same way as you connected the chargers.
      > Desulfators come in 6,12,24,36,48, and even 72V from different companies and
      > cost from $30 to $95 for a 72V from say battery life saver.

      I was going to say that "desulfators" are controversial, but I'm feeling a
      bit cranky tonight. ;-)

      There is no properly gathered verifiable evidence that "desulfators" really
      do what they claim to do. All the reported evidence is anecdotal, most of
      it gathered by those who have a vested interest in reporting success.

      My suggestion : don't waste your money. You'll get the same or better
      performance for less money from an ordinary charger.

      David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      EVDL Administrator

      = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
      EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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      Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
      reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
      email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 16
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:11:02 -0400
      From: "David Roden" <evpost@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why doesn't regen work with DC
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D8BC26.3193.23C05BF@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

      On 29 Aug 2007 at 21:57, Adrian DeLeon wrote:

      > How about threading a small plastic tube down the battery vent and
      > bubbling a bit of air through the cells to keep them from stratifying?

      This is one of several tricks that have been tried for exactly this purpose.
      I recall reading about a fair bit of work done in this area about 20 years
      ago. I think I also recall some kind of vibrating gadget that was supposed
      to implement some amount of electrolyte mixing.

      One of the more interesting tricks that Robert Aronson incorporated into at
      least one version of his "tri-polar" batteries was intercell connectors
      located at the >bottom< of the battery. The heat from the connectors
      (presumably a bit undersized) was supposed to create convection currents to
      help stir the electrolyte.

      I suspect that the best solution to electrolyte stratification is AGM
      design. However, I'm not an electrochemist, so I might be wrong about that.

      David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      EVDL Administrator

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      EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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      Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
      reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
      email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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      ------------------------------

      Message: 17
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:04:33 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Jim Husted <hi_torque_electric@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] Radio interview
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <90938.85380.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


      --- James Massey <jcmassey@...> wrote:

      > G'day Jim, All
      >
      > "Founder and head engineer"?!!

      Hey James

      Caught that did ya, wasn't my doing! lol.

      Must be an honorary thing 8^P Although I do have
      masters in both "head banging" and "knuckle ripping"
      8^o

      > That's a bit of a come down from "The
      > Greatest Motor Builder in the World"! :^)

      I only screamed that from my roof once 8^) and my
      neighbors got a court order saying I can't do it
      anymore, so there 8^P LMAO.

      Honestly I'm in a good chapter in my life (FWIW it's
      not all glamore). The last couple of years have
      offered me a real sense of purpose though, and that
      I'm doing something that matters, and it's larger than
      I am, and that's pretty cool. It's by connecting with
      all of you guys that's allowed a little magic to
      happen.

      >From my point of view I'm just switching from one
      abusive customer to another 8^o which brings about
      more head banging 8^)

      I will say there is something to that "be careful what
      you wish for" thing 8^P But I'll also say if you
      aren't passionant about it, how are you going to get
      the public to be passionant about it? Of course there
      is that fine line between passion and looking like a
      lunitic 8^)

      How'd I do BTW 0 being passion and 10 being loony ;^)

      Wishing you all a great weekend.

      Cya
      Jim Husted
      Hi-Torque Electric




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
      http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting



      ------------------------------

      Message: 18
      Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:08:57 -0500
      From: dannym@...
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Cc: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <def1b8b8d678.d678def1b8b8@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

      Is that significant for acceleration? My numbers suggest otherwise.

      1 farad means that drawing 1 amp makes the voltage drop 1V/sec.

      Series caps divide their capacitance. A 120V system with 10x 4 farad
      caps in series is 0.4 farads. So under an acceleration where you try to
      draw 100A from the cap, the voltage will drop 250V/sec. It sounds like
      there will be only a delay of a few milliseconds before the batt+cap
      voltage ends up at the voltage the batt would drop to anyways.

      In other words if the batt is 30V lower when loaded down, the 10x 4
      farad caps in series can supplement all of 12 amp-seconds between the
      higher and lower voltage states. 12 amps over 1 sec, 1 amp over 12 sec,
      100 amps over 0.12 sec.

      It might help stiffen the battery against current ripple- but the total
      capacitance is insignificant for acceleration.

      Danny

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Michael T Kadie <kd@...>
      Date: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:51 pm
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility
      To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' <ev@...>

      > For short burst of acceleration coupled to a 12 volt'ish battery
      > system I
      > don't think you will be able to beat the competition stereo
      > capacitors. 1-4
      > farads for a very affordable price. <note not nearly enough juice
      > for the
      > quarter, but enough for quick response to pass someone, also will help
      > extend range of batteries>
      > The thing about a123 batteries are they are light for what you get.
      > However
      > to have more umph than the lead acid / agm you need to buy enough
      > of them
      > that you can probably run the vehicle on the a123 (figure 100 amps
      > and 3
      > volt per cell at $10-20 each, a good lead acid will produce 500
      > amps, so
      > that means you need 10 times the system voltage divide by 3 or 3
      > times the
      > system voltage to get any benefit). I love them (using them in
      > 2SSIC) but
      > they do not seem to be a way to save any money.
      >
      > KD
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Jack Murray [mailto:jack@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:04 PM
      > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
      > Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility
      >
      > yep, a capacitor thingy is a better approach than using A123, the
      > caps can
      > take the abuse of constant charge discharge. and while it would be
      > complicated, it will also be very expensive, so if you consider how
      > muchlifespan it improves the cheap batteries, you might be better
      > off to buy a
      > few sets of batteries than pay for the caps and complications.
      > But if they are expensive batteries, e.g. some low-rate Lithium, it
      > might be
      > worthwhile to improve their lifetime by lowering their amp draws.
      > If you
      > are trying to go fast and don't care as much about cost, then it
      > might be
      > worthwhile approach in any case. I've been toying with some ideas,
      > andmight try them out on an R/C car.
      >
      > Jack
      >
      > Timothy Balcer wrote:
      > > Actually there is a discussion of using AGMs + Floodies in buddy
      > pairs
      > > for just the same idea. A veddy nice list member looks like he is
      > > going to bench a pair and get some numbers on this scenario.
      > >
      > > As far as using A123s as an 'acceleration pack', that's been
      > discussed
      > > as well. It's called a Hybrid pack, and such a thing has the
      > potential
      > > to be absolutely fraught with difficulties.
      > >
      > > If order for this sort of thing to work -very- well, the pack
      > control
      > > would have to be based on amps demanded, and so it would have to
      > be a
      > > controller that had that smarts in it tp handle this scenario.
      > >
      > > In order for it to work -reasonably- well (which is to say, it
      > would
      > > work, but not be elegant), you could spend a lot of time thinking
      > > about balancing currents and battery voltages for unequal pairs,
      > set
      > > up faux 'buddy pairs' and go to town. The A123s would be a bit
      > abused
      > > by this treatment though.
      > >
      > > All of this is predicated on the idea that the 'demand' battery
      > (A123
      > > in your case) has a lower internal resistance than the 'float'
      > battery
      > > and so would provide most of the current for short durations of
      > high
      > > demand. Once demand went down to below a certain threshold
      > (depending
      > > on your 'float' battery) then current would start to flow from
      > the
      > > float battery. If the demand were low enough, the float battery
      > would
      > > recharge the demand battery as well as supply current to the
      > > controller.
      > >
      > > I am actually working out a way to use NiCD floodies as a demand
      > pack
      > > myself. They are very resistant to abuse and have a pretty low
      > > internal resistance.
      > >
      > > What I've been learning is that you really have to think hard
      > about
      > > how you match up batteries, otherwise you'll end up with one or
      > the
      > > other cooked off by current runaway or overuse.
      > >
      > > _______________________________________________
      > > For subscription options, see
      > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 19
      Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 00:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Jem <cyelkovan@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] unsubscribe
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <572849.56206.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      unsubscribe

      --- "Paschke, Stephen" <SPaschke@...> wrote:

      > The ICE components do not weigh much in any air
      > cooled VW. You may get
      > rid of 500lbs. The engine is so light 1 strong
      > person could carry it if
      > it weren't so awkwardly shaped.
      > Good Luck with your project. I'm sure you'll love
      > it!
      >
      > > Stephen Paschke
      > > Senior Consultant
      > > Keane, Inc.
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-ev@...
      > [mailto:owner-ev@...] On
      > Behalf Of Deb Hollenback
      > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:21 PM
      > To: ev@...
      > Subject: Re: Karmann Ghia Design - System voltage
      >
      > Thanks Bruce for the valuable battery sizing and
      > donor info!
      >
      > I neglected to include weight stats - a 70ish Ghia
      > weighs close to 1900
      > lbs curb weight. I do not have GVW - anyone else
      > know? I'm guessing
      > the ICE components removed will be around 600 lbs.
      > The main occupants
      > of the vehicle will be myself and my lab/boxer -
      > combined weight of
      > 200lbs. I would like to add a passenger along with
      > said pup
      > occasionally - with the pup on a flat bed I envision
      > to go over the
      > batteries that will reside in the back seat.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      > ____________
      > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out
      > Yahoo! Autos new
      > Car Finder tool.
      > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
      >
      >
      ********************************************************************************************
      > This message, including any attachments, contains
      > confidential information intended
      > for a specific individual and purpose, and is
      > protected by law. If you are not the intended
      > recipient, please contact the sender immediately by
      > reply e-mail and destroy all copies.
      > You are hereby notified that any disclosure,
      > copying, or distribution of this message, or
      > the taking of any action based on it, is strictly
      > prohibited.
      >
      > TIAA-CREF
      >
      ********************************************************************************************
      >
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 20
      Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 01:17:12 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Dave Cover <davecover@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] discovery channel
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <733154.35513.qm@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

      Congratulations! As Lee said, let us know if you need any help. With the scarcity of some parts,
      do you think you have enough parts to build five more conversions? If you run short, maybe someone
      on the list can fill the bill quickly. Don't hestitate to send out the call.

      Good luck,

      Dave Cover

      --- Sharon G Alexander <sharon1248@...> wrote:

      > The Discovery Channel has asked me to build 5 conversions for them, they will be having a
      > program about EV conversions soon, So I have to build 5 of them, if I don't already have enough
      > work to do. but the pay is going to be good. The first one will be a V W Thing, of all things..
      > Wayne @ www.ev-blue.com
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 21
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:45:09 -0400
      From: Peter Eckhoff <peckhoff@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magazine dedicated to EVs?
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D950C5.1090701@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      Hello David,

      Not to take away from the archive, I have used the archive before and
      find it to be very useful. But sometimes trying to find a specific
      piece of information is hit or miss especially when you know that it is
      there -- somewhere. It can take time to find the right entry
      izspechialy if there are misspellingz or my dislectic typo-ing fingers
      get in "teh" way. Sometimes a thought is buried in text under a
      completely different heading and I bypass the heading. It maybe that I
      need to learn how to use the archive more effectively.

      My idea would be to take something like K&W chargers and find all
      references to them in the archive, edit out the fluff and compile the
      remaining information into several coherent paragraphs (Specifications,
      operation, repair, settings, tricks of the trades/rules of thumb,
      etc.). I've done this a couple of time with Slashdot articles
      (recommended software utilities) and EVDL topics. It is a **joy ** to be
      able to have diversely spread out thoughts and emails coallesed into one
      file with all the i-DAN-ified fluff removed.

      Below is something I did awhile back on shipping. When anyone of our
      TEAA members or associates wants to ship a car, I could say to them
      look through the archive or I could hand them the list below. The list
      below is an impressive way of saying "we are here to help you" drive
      electric.

      In this list, there is a reference to finding a survey on highly rated
      companies, something that might have gone unnoticed or not found in a
      search and would be a topic in an online book such as "rolling
      backwards". There are details here that are common to them all that
      could be the basis for a topic such as insurance and a rare comment that
      might lead to asking for loading/unloading instructions from EVDL
      members. Here's an excerpt from below:

      "I also elected to go with their insurance ($119), so if they burn
      out the controller by applying forward
      power while rolling backwards it will be covered."

      An online magazine could use the above to create many an article. Just
      some thoughts.

      Peter

      shipping.txt:

      Compiled by Peter Eckhoff
      From EVDL on shipping 10/21/2003 to 7/23/2004
      June 2, 2005


      Lonnie Borntreger:
      I used TNT - http://www.tnt-inc.com/ - to move my ICE from Chicago to
      California. They're a little more expensive, but it was completely
      hassle free, with an on-time guarantee - and they have great customer
      service.

      Here is where I looked to find highly rated transporters in preparation
      for my move: http://www.howwerate.com/

      John Lussmyer:
      I used Kiwi Karriers out of Port Townsend, WA to ship a Sparrow from MI
      to WA.
      Of course I purposely told them that there was no hurry, and take as long
      as they wanted. Took a month or so, but I did get a good price.

      Rudy:
      Hello - I'm new to the list. In fact I just had my volkrabbit sent to me
      from CA to TX via DASautoshippers (the company ebay recommends)
      http://www.dasautoshippers.com . I've used them several times
      before and have always been happy with them. I'm loving the voltsrabbit
      too, by the way :) . Good luck

      James Jarrett
      I used shipauto
      http://www.shipauto.com

      to ship my Henney from California to NC. There were a couple of false
      starts getting the car picked up (the mis-keyed the zip code and went to the
      wrong place first time), but other than that it went smoothly. Only cost me
      about $900.00 to ship coast to coast and I got it in 4 days.

      They do door to door shipping.

      Brad Waddell:
      I used Dependable Auto Shippers (DAS) 800-826-1083 - they did a great job,
      had tracking all the way so I always knew where my car was.

      Mark Hanson:
      I used intercitylines.com 1-800-221-3936 to ship two GE Elec-Tracs,
      attachments and associated paraphenalia from Roanoke VA to Inverness,
      California last year. Took them a couple weeks to pick up but their prices
      were reasonable.

      David Brandt compilation and may duplicate some of the messages herein:
      Mike Chancey:
      I used M & W Trucking, Inc out of Odessa MO. They moved my Forces from New
      York to Kansas City for $650 each, and they were quick. Their phone number
      is 816-230-7895 or mobile 417-850-8718.

      Derrick J Brashear:
      dependableautoshippers.com shipped my 84 Daytona conversion from the
      seller in Burbank to me in Pittsburgh; It took them less than a week from
      pickup to dropoff including 2 days delay on the dropoff because I was out
      of town.

      The seller's comment on the receipt when she gave it to the driver at the
      other end was amusing:
      "Electric car. Drive like golf cart."


      a.k. howard:
      Might want to check out Passport Transport, which is a a division of
      FedEx.
      www.passporttransport.com.

      Regards, A.K. Howard, Las Vegas NV.


      Tom Peterson:
      I have a flatbed (20ft), and I and my son in law have hauled cars and trucks
      to be restored. This is not a commercal enterprize. Get with me at:
      topper@...

      Mark A Klemosky:
      Reliable Carriers.

      Brad Waddell:
      I have used two carriers:

      http://a1-auto.com/ A-1 Auto Transport, INC 1-800-452-2880

      report: very inexpensive, but they damaged my wheel & tire and would not
      cover my replacement cost, but I used a VISA card and was able to dispute
      that amount, so I would use them again because it was so much less
      expensive.

      Dependable Auto Shippers (DAS) 800-826-1083 http://dasautoshippers.com/

      White glove treatment at a premium price, about double A1.


      Bruce Tucker:
      I have been trying to get an ev shipped from Florida to California since
      April. Based upon a low/reasonable bid in line with others, I made a
      reservation with A-1 Auto Transport (www.a1-auto.com). While the stories
      the told me were plausible (truck broke down), in the end they never did
      even come close to giving me a confirmed pick-up date. The worker the
      assigned my case to never returned calls (at one point confessing she wasn't
      allowed outgoing calls) and her voice sounded like she had no life in her.
      I wonder if the increase in fuel prices is causing some of this backing out
      of deals.

      I still had a few days left on my original 30 day quotes from other
      transporters, so I re-read this FAQ post, and some of the others about
      transporters used for ev's and started calling back a few. I tried trusted
      auto, but only got voicemail. Wanting to talk directly with someone who
      answered the phone. I kept looking. I ended up with Dependable Auto
      Shippers (www.dasautoshippers.com) who were just about twice as expensive.
      On the other hand, they picked up the car in two days, and it will be here
      within 2 weeks. I should mention that one of the reasons it was more
      expensive is that they stated that whenever a car has been modified, they
      require the use of an enclosed transporter. I also elected to go with their
      insurance ($119), so if they burn out the controller by applying forward
      power while rolling backwards it will be covered.

      So far so good,
      Bruce Tucker

      Ben White:
      You might try Blueline Carriers, 626-967-3020.
      They shipped my Honda Civic GX from LA
      to San Jose for $150. I don't think they have
      a web site, but the invoice (I still have it!) says
      they serve the states of CA and GA, among others.



      David Roden wrote:
      > On 31 Aug 2007 at 5:16, Peter Eckhoff wrote:
      >
      >
      >> What might be more useful is to glean all the **useful** information
      >> that has passed through this site into an online reference or enhance
      >> the EV wiki.
      >>
      >
      > That's what the archives are for.
      >
      > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      > EVDL Administrator
      >
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 22
      Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:09:48 -0400
      From: Jude Anthony <Judebert@...>
      Subject: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink
      To: EVDL new <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <46D9568C.9040809@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

      Just took Silent E out for a spin around the block. She's not finished
      yet -- needs splashguards, cable conduit, and lots of little things --
      but I had reconnected everything and wanted to find any big problems.
      (I need to readjust my potbox, because I could never get more than 1/2
      acceleration out of it, even with my foot on the floor.)

      The big problem was motor stink. It smelled like burned insulation.
      (Not that I've smelled that before.) It was strong enough that my wife
      noticed it as I pulled into the garage after only one trip around the
      cul-de-sac.

      This is, essentially, a new motor. Jim rebuilt it months ago, on short
      notice, and I just got it back on the road (sorry, Jim. Family stuff
      got in the way). Am I burning off lubrication oil, or breaking in
      brushes, or actually hurting something?

      Thanks,
      Jude



      ------------------------------

      Message: 23
      Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:50:28 EDT
      From: KilowattA798@...
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] 3178 lb.S10 runs in 12s
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <c8b.1458a627.340ac824@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

      I thought my S10 would be a little lighter but an official weight of 3178 +-
      1.5lbs without me!!With me 3354 lbs.Well it is a service truck, daily driver.
      The 13in. x 13in. 24/36 volt traction motor put my S 10 in the 12s.It kinda
      slow in the 1st 1/8 mile but pulls like a freight train at the top end. All its
      runs were well over 100mph with almost bracket race close ets.the best being a
      12.76 at almost 106mph.This was again almost a third of a second quicker than
      last week. This is the 13th time down the qt. mile and still taking off big
      chunks of time. We did have a lot of wind and dust (side and front) to contend
      with being this is still our monsoon season. This improvement in performance
      did not include adjusting the zilla to the remaining power left in the
      batteries but came as the result of a smaller tire. So there may be still surprise
      ETS. left in this heavy truck. This truck has only 30 26ah lead batteries in the
      drive system.

      The motor is performing great, no sign of arcing, a
      beautiful golden tan communator.It must be all the motor homework. I still have
      to add weight though to be legal in the 900lb? lighter zombies nedra record
      catorgy.The truck still needs a headliner! Dennis Berube


      ------------------------------

      Message: 24
      Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:57:46 EDT
      From: KilowattA798@...
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] I never say White Zombie runs 12's
      To: ev@...
      Message-ID: <c8a.103bd69c.340ac9da@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

      In a message dated 8/29/2007 12:39:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
      KilowattA798@... writes:
      > White Zombie runs 12's
      > Date:8/29/2007 12:39:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time
      > From:KilowattA798@...
      > Reply-to:ev@...
      > To:ev@...
      > Received from Internet:
      >
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 8/21/2007 7:15:41 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
      > jw@... writes:
      > >mbie runs 12's
      > >Date:8/21/2007 7:15:41 AM US Mountain Standard Time
      > >From:jw@...
      > >Reply-to:ev@...
      > >To:ev@...
      > >Received from Internet:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Hello to All,
      > >
      > >MrGoFast99@... wrote:
      > >
      > >>
      > >>OK Dennis, when are you going to race the Zombie? You're almost as fast
      > >now,
      > >>can you crank it up some more?
      > >>
      > >>
      > >Jim, since 'when' was 13.0 "almost as fast" as 11.4? OK, maybe lithium
      > >is an unfair comparison. How 'bout since 'when' was 13.0 "almost as
      > >fast" as 11.8? I know you're a serious drag racer, so you 'do' know
      > >there's a HUGE difference between 13.0 and 12.5, right? Going from 12.5
      > >to 11-anything is another HUGE step.
      > >
      > >Dennis doing 13 flat in his new S10, is terrific. That's a quick street
      > >machine that will beat most street cars he may run up against. Keep in
      > >mind, I was running 13.1 seven years ago, and it has taken me this long
      > >to get to where we are now, but with lithium as an option these days,
      > >pretty much anyone can run 12s I would suspect. A set of stout and light
      > >weight lithiums in Dennis' truck would certainly push it into the low
      > >12's-high 11s, and with Dennis' skills and has fox-crafty attitude, it
      > >is almost certain that he will beat me into the 10s if I don't pay
      > >attention to my rear view mirror!
      > >
      > >I have no doubt that Dennis will get his truck into the high 12s very
      > >soon, again, a very impressive feat with just a single string of lead
      > >acid Hawkers! I can hardly wait to read his post when he does! Can he
      > >get it into the mid 12s with just a single string of non-lithium
      > >Hawkers? I doubt it. However, Dennis is VERY competitive, and if anyone
      > >can make me eat my words, he can :-) If he were to double up his pack,
      > >even with the extra pack weight, his Zilla could be properly fed and his
      > >S10 pickup would go deep into the 12s.
      > >Sounds like you think my daily driver(312 miles in 3 weeks) has little
      > >chance against the zombie.Its going to be an intresting FALL. D.Berube
      > >See Ya....John Wayland
      > >
      ***John are you ready to eat your words?Thanks for geting me off the couch,I
      am looking foward to a HEADS UP race,with my hands and feet tied behind my
      back. Dennis Berube


      ------------------------------

      Message: 25
      Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 06:58:22 -0700
      From: Mark Dutko <mdutko@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Think chargeque
      To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <E239A11B-E678-4C14-A001-0D0D355F3DBC@...>
      Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

      It's some sort of nuclear fallout. The charger was sealed too!
      On Aug 31, 2007, at 10:11 PM, David Roden wrote:

      > On 30 Aug 2007 at 20:12, Mark Dutko wrote:
      >
      >> I fixed my charger issue, I opened up the back and found the inside
      >> looked like it had been on fire for a week of so.
      >
      > Whoa. What IS that gunk that's all over it? That charger looks
      > like items
      > that I've found sitting in attics of old houses for 75 years.
      > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
      > EVDL Administrator
      >
      > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
      > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
      > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
      > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
      > reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
      > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
      > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > For subscription options, see
      > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
      >



      ------------------------------

      Message: 26
      Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 10:03:45 -0400
      From: "michael wendell" <mwendell@...>
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magazine dedicated to EVs?
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Message-ID: <FC2B8EA574B645A081BBCEFE800006B5@Kwyjibo>
      Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
      reply-type=original

      i agree that an ongoing EV wiki project could be very helpful and much
      better than an archive for disseminating useful information. if there's
      anything i can do towards this, feel free to contact me offlist.

      m.



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Peter Eckhoff" <peckhoff@...>
      To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
      Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 7:45 AM
      Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magazine dedicated to EVs?


      > Hello David,
      >
      > Not to take away from the archive, I have used the archive before and
      > find it to be very useful. But sometimes trying to find a specific
      > piece of information is hit or miss especially when you know that it is
      > there -- somewhere. It can take time to find the right entry
      > izspechialy if there are misspellingz or my dislectic typo-ing fingers
      > get in "teh" way. Sometimes a thought is buried in text under a
      > completely different heading and I bypass the heading. It maybe that I
      > need to learn how to use the archive more effectively.
      >
      > My idea would be to take something like K&W chargers and find all
      > references to them in the archive, edit out the fluff and compile the
      > remaining information into several coherent paragraphs (Specifications,
      > operation, repair, settings, tricks of the trades/rules of thumb,
      > etc.). I've done this a couple of time with Slashdot articles
      > (recommended software utilities) and EVDL topics. It is a **joy ** to be
      > able to have diversely spread out thoughts and emails coallesed into one
      > file with all the i-DAN-ified fluff removed.
      >
      > Below is something I did awhile back on shipping. When anyone of our
      > TEAA members or associates wants to ship a car, I could say to them
      > look through the archive or I could hand them the list below. The list
      > below is an impressive way of saying "we are here to help you" drive
      > electric.
      >
      > In this list, there is a reference to finding a survey on hi
      (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
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        Today's Topics:

        1. Re: EVLN: Why Do EVs Front Vestigial Fake Grilles?
        (EVDL Administrator)
        2. Re: whats this all about (EVDL Administrator)
        3. EVLN: Tacita T-Race Enduro Cross-Country Electric Motorcycle
        (brucedp5)
        4. EVLN: Renault Tech's firefighting Twizy EV for quick
        interventions (brucedp5)
        5. SJSU list (please read) (EVDL Administrator)
        6. Re: SJSU list (please read) (EVDL Administrator)


        ----------------------------------------------------------------------

        Message: 1
        Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:05:36 -0500
        From: "EVDL Administrator" <evpost@...>
        To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
        Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Why Do EVs Front Vestigial Fake Grilles?
        Message-ID: <50B8F570.1798.48D02325@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

        On 30 Nov 2012 at 9:44, Chris Tromley wrote:

        > It's hard enough getting Mr. & Ms Public to believe an EV is a real
        > car. Why make it harder by making it looking like some sort of
        > spaceship?

        This is true, and yet there's a balance here. One reason the Prius took an
        early lead over the Civic Hybrid is that it had an immediately identifiable
        appearance. Curiously, part of that appearance was a quite subtle grill,
        and the absence of a visible tailpipe (it was almost entirely concealed
        behind the rear valence panel).

        There's a segment of buyers we might call greenies. For them, buying a Prius
        was "conspicuous consumption," and I mean that in a positive way. The Prius
        worked like a normal car - which was still important to them - but it was
        greener, and it looked the part.

        The Prius also appealed to early adopters and the technical crowd. It had
        an undeniable high-tech look, especially with its distinctive profile,
        touchscreen dash, and funky joystick-y shifter. It looked very different
        from everything else on the road. (Imitating its look has not helped the
        newer Honda Insight. Honda doesn't seem to get it.)

        This is not to make this a discussion of how to succeed in hybrids-that-
        really-aren't, but rather to give an example of how EVs might do well in the
        marketplace. IMO Nissan and Mitsubishi did the right thing in building EVs
        that have a distinctive look. GM was right to make the Volt its own line,
        but I think they made it look too much like every other GM (your views may
        vary). Ford, Honda, and the rest are blowing it by making their EVs look
        just like their ICE counterparts - but then their EVs are just compliance
        cars, and they don't really care. (They should. For compliance cars to
        fulfill their purpose, they have to sell.)

        I think there are two reasonably certain paths to success for an EV, thouigh
        there are probably others that are less sure.

        One is the above - build a vehicle that gives the buyer the same kind of
        service he already expects from a car, including adequate range, but does so
        with more green cred and a high-tech sheen. Just like they'll pay a bit
        more for recycled paper towels or the latest smartphone (but not 50% more),
        they'll pay a bit more for a green EV or a highly evolved one (but not 50%
        more).

        Another is to build a vehicle that delibvers SOME of the same service, but
        is cheap enough to be (for some folks) close to the impulse purchase
        category. E-bikes took this route to success. I think the Renault Twizy is
        also close to joining this segment. If Renault can get the price down to
        around $4-5k, they might very well have a winner. Whether we'll ever see it
        in the US is another matter. Maybe I'll have to move to Europe to get one.

        David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
        EVDL Administrator

        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
        reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
        email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




        ------------------------------

        Message: 2
        Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:05:36 -0500
        From: "EVDL Administrator" <evpost@...>
        To: ev@...
        Subject: Re: [EVDL] whats this all about
        Message-ID: <50B8F570.25187.48D0245A@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

        Much of what is said in this post I disagree VERY STRONGLY with, but that's
        all I'm going to say about it. I don't want this thread to turn into yet
        another argument over promoting safe driving vs designing vehicles to
        protect their occupants when accidents happen, or about traditional rigid
        this-truck-can-crush-anything iron vs modern absorb-the-crash-energy,
        computer-designed steel. While these issues certainly relate to selecting a
        glider, and sometimes in challenging ways (what happens to crashworthiness
        when you start welding new steel into a carefully designed body shell?),
        they're not mainly about EVs and they tend to generate more heat than light.

        As for a conversion vs a factory EV, for me, there's no contest. If a
        factory EV suits my needs and I can afford it, I quickly lose interest in
        converting. I have other things I'd rather do with my time and energy.

        But that's me. I really don't get a kick out of working on cars any more,
        not like I did when I was in my 20s and 30s. Plenty of folks do, though,
        and if you like rolling your own EV, picking from hundreds of available
        gliders, great! That's what the EVDL is here for, to help you through that
        process.

        David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
        EVDL Administrator

        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
        reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
        email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




        ------------------------------

        Message: 3
        Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 06:25:01 -0800 (PST)
        From: brucedp5 <brucedp5@...>
        To: ev@...
        Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Tacita T-Race Enduro Cross-Country Electric
        Motorcycle
        Message-ID: <1354371901337-4659696.post@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


        Tacita is ?Silent? in Latin, 10kWh Li-Po pack, c:3.5h@3kWh

        http://www.autoevolution.com/news/tacita-t-race-the-electric-cross-country-motorcycle-52216.html
        [image] Tacita T-Race, the Electric Cross-Country Motorcycle
        by Florin Tibu 26 Nov 2012

        [image
        http://www.autoevolution.com/news-g-image/tacita-t-race-the-electric-cross-country-motorcycle/95194.html
        Tacita T-Race photo gallery
        ]

        We can't help happily smiling after we've seen the Tacita T-Race, a most
        welcomed appearance in the electric motorcycle market. We're looking at
        (probably) the first electric motorcycle to be tested in a real life
        cross-country rally (Merzouga, Morocco) and we hope we'll get to see more of
        these machines soon.

        The Tacita stands for ?Silent? in Latin, and you could easily guess why the
        name. Since cross-country rally racing is more to bikes' endurance and range
        than it is to speed alone, we are still wondering about the Tacita's range.
        Rumors claim the Tacita T-Race can last a whole day's riding on a full
        charge, but still we'd like to see some official data on that.

        However, the Tacita T-Race is loaded with 4 Lithium-Polymer batteries
        intelligently loaded on the bike for a nifty balance. Despite the power
        storage, the Tacita T-Race is said to weigh in at less than 180 kg (397
        lbs). The batteries come with more than 10 kWh energy storage and that's why
        the no-memory Li-Po batteries can be recharged anytime and anywhere with the
        supplied charger.

        The standard charger needs 9 hours for a full charge, while an optional 3
        kWh fast one can do that in 3.5 hours. The Tacita T-Race comes with a rated
        power of 8 kW and 24 kW peak rating, 3 ?engine mapping? modes.

        Equipped with 18? and 21? Excel rims and fully-adjustable suspension for
        both front and rear, the Tacita T-Race can tackle the roughest terrains,
        just like any combustion engine bike would. Optional solar charging stations
        are available ...
        [? 2012 SoftNews NET All rights reserved]



        http://beforeitsnews.com/motor-junkies/2012/11/tacita-t-race-a-new-electric-enduro-bike-2452766.html
        [images] Tacita T-Race ? A New Electric Enduro Bike
        Indian Car Bike News and Reviews Nov 27 2012

        [images
        http://www.motorbeam.com/wp-content/uploads/Tacita-T-Race-Bike.jpg

        http://www.motorbeam.com/wp-content/uploads/Tacita-T-Race-Bike-enduro.jpg
        Tacita T-Race Bike enduro
        ]

        An Italian company, Tacita, has launched the latest electric enduro off-road
        bike called the T-Race. This bike was tested this month at the Merzouga
        Rally in Morocco where it not only competed, but also won in the ?New
        Energy? category. This makes it the first ever electric bike to start the
        rally, first to traverse the whole distance of the rally as well as first to
        finish the rally in history. The bike was ridden by Canadian Dakar and rally
        racer, Patrick Trahan.

        This amazing bike was conceptualized as an all electric bike, that was road
        legal, to be enjoyed on proper off-road trails, riding in the countryside as
        well as to compete in rallies with a battery range enough to last a full day
        of riding keeping up with petrol powered bikes. It was designed and
        engineered to be a typical Italian enduro bike with high-tech features,
        great ergonomics and great fun to ride, along with zero emissions, no noise
        and protection of the environment.

        The Tacita T-Race has an aerodynamic high-tech design with perfect weight
        distribution to make it extremely agile and maneuverable. It has a three
        phase alternate current, maintenance free motor delivering normal rated
        power of 10.7 HP and a peak power of 32 HP. It has three settings ? Eco,
        Sport and Boost for various power requirements. The T-Race also has a
        multiple-speed gearbox, which most electric vehicles do not have.

        There are four battery packs on the Tacita T-Race, two in front and two at
        the back specially positioned to keep the centre of gravity a low as
        possible offering ideal weight distribution. The batteries are the latest
        advanced rechargeable Lithium Polymer with very low weight and high output
        and a storage capacity of 10.6 kW and have a range of about 100 kms in rally
        or race conditions. They are capable of two thousand charges (or 1,00,000
        ksm) after which the residual capacity is 80 percent. The battery requires 9
        hours to charge from a 220 v socket but can be charged in three and half
        hours using a 3 kW charger.

        Tacita will also supply a trailer for racing or rallying purposes that acts
        as storage for the bike as well and a Solar charging station. The trailer
        has solar panels on the roof which stores electricity which can be used at
        night to charge the T-Race. The chassis, suspension and tyres are the latest
        in the off-road / enduro category giving it superlative handling, agility
        and balance required in rally and off-road conditions.

        Tacita boast of typical Italian craftsmanship and passion in building the
        T-Race with cutting edge technology and customers can get their bikes
        tailor-made to their requirements. Also they will sell riding gear, helmets,
        bags and accessories for the customers all hand made in Italy. From March
        next year, the company will start organizing tours for customers to special
        trails and off-road destinations in the glorious Italian Alps which will
        give an experience of what the T-Race Enduro bike was built to do.
        [? 2012 Before It's News All Rights Reserved]



        http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012/tacita-t-race-electric-enduro-tested-at-morocco
        Tacita T-Race Electric Enduro: Tested at Morocco | Ultimate ...
        ? Tacita T-Race Electric Enduro Motorcycle Details. The problem with
        electric motorcycles has always been their limited autonomy and general ...



        http://motorallyonairnews.blogspot.com/2012/11/tacita-t-race-rally-bikes-with-electric.html
        Motorallyonairnews: Tacita T-RACE Electric rally
        Tacita T-RACE Electric rally. Tacita T-Race, Rally bikes with electric
        propulsion. The realization, all Italian, implies an entire system, ranging
        from philosophy to ...




        For all EVLN posts use:
        http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date

        Here are today's archive-only posts:

        EVLN: Hampstead Women's Club donation recharges Topsail-HS EV Program
        EVLN: Get off the road!, scene: me, my e-bike, and China
        EVLN: RAC EVs To Deliver ~90 Electric Buses/Trucks in 2013
        EVLN: Not the 1st EV of Paraguay r:120km
        EVLN: BAE/Northrop-Grumman GCV hybrid replacing the Bradley
        +
        EVLN: Renault Tech's firefighting Twizy EV for quick interventions


        {brucedp.150m.com}



        --
        View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tacita-T-Race-Enduro-Cross-Country-Electric-Motorcycle-tp4659696.html
        Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


        ------------------------------

        Message: 4
        Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 06:27:35 -0800 (PST)
        From: brucedp5 <brucedp5@...>
        To: ev@...
        Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Renault Tech's firefighting Twizy EV for quick
        interventions
        Message-ID: <1354372055084-4659697.post@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


        Arrives ahead of the more consequential lifesaving equipment

        http://www.thehimalayantimes.com/fullNews.php?headline=Early+response+electric+car&NewsID=355981
        Early response electric car
        2012-11-29
        AGENCIES
        LONDON: A French automaker has just unveiled a firefighting version of
        Renault Twizy electric car that could somewhat do the job of a full-fledged
        fire-truck!

        Built by Renault and its vehicle conversion subsidiary Renault Tech with
        help from the Paris Fire Brigade, this modified Twizy can double up as an
        early response vehicle and packs a storage trunk complete with two fire
        extinguishers, two oxygen tanks, a fire suit and helmet, and a first aid
        kit.

        Of course you wouldn?t expect an electric car as such to hose down a burning
        house. But then again, this little car will make its way through heavy
        traffic long before the chunky fire-truck does, and could help put rescue
        operations in place beforehand!
        [? thehimalayantimes.com ]



        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10843801
        [image] Renault develops mini fire truck for fast action
        Nov 2 2012

        [image / Supplied
        http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201244/SCCZEN_3110twizy1_460x230.jpg
        Renault Twizy
        ]

        Renault has presented the Paris fire brigade with the keys to an innovative
        Twizy prototype adapted specifically to the needs of firefighters.

        The Twizy prototype was co-developed by Renault Tech, the company's vehicle
        conversion subsidiary, and the Paris fire brigade. The special model was
        designed for early interventions ahead of the arrival of further equipment,
        if needed.

        The rear seat has been replaced by a boot used to store emergency response
        equipment - two fire extinguishers, two oxygen tanks, a fire suit, a helmet
        and a first-aid kit.

        Tests of the prototype begin in November for an eight-month period, the aim
        being to use Twizy as a support vehicle in Paris and its immediate suburbs
        and when setting up temporary safety installations for major public events
        such as New Year's Eve.

        The Paris fire brigade is reviewing the long-term possibility of setting up
        a fleet of light electric vehicles, for more efficiency and environmental
        respect.

        "This initial prototype is real-life proof of the research and development
        work carried out together with the emergency services, demonstrating
        Renault's ability and determination to innovate to meet the needs of
        firefighters," said Renault's Claire Petit Boulanger.

        Renault and the French national firefighter association, FNSPF, signed a
        partnership agreement on June 21 this year to step up their collaborative
        efforts in fields including technical co-operation and donating vehicles to
        firefighters for vehicle-extrication training.
        [? 2012 APN Holdings NZ ]



        http://green.autoblog.com/2012/10/28/firefighters-will-test-renault-twizy-as-emergency-support-vehicl/
        [images] Firefighters will test Renault Twizy as emergency support vehicle
        in Paris
        By Sebastian Blanco Oct 28 2012

        [images
        http://green.autoblog.com/photos/firefighters-test-out-renault-twizy/#photo-5389878/
        renault twizy firefighter gallery
        ]

        The Twizy can be adapted to a variety of situations, from wall art to music
        video attention getter. Eurocarblog, for example, has a new story about a
        Twizy decorated in such a way that it is, "blatantly inspired by the work of
        Pablo Picasso," in order to take part in a Milan exhibition dedicated to the
        painter. But Renault's latest suggestion for the odd little electric vehicle
        (EV) is one we really didn't see coming.

        This week, Renault offered firefighters in Paris the chance to test out a
        Twizy that had been "adapted to firefighters' needs." That means that the
        minimal back seat was taken out and replaced with emergency equipment,
        specifically "two fire extinguishers, two oxygen tanks, a fire suit, a
        helmet and a first-aid kit." Starting in November, the prototype will be
        used for an eight-month period as a support vehicle, "for early
        interventions ahead of the arrival of more consequential lifesaving
        equipment." In other words, the ER-ready Twizy can flit in and get the
        rescue started, without pesky things like doors getting in the way.

        PR
        Firefighters try out Twizy
        Oct 24 2012

        On October 24 Renault is presenting the Paris firefighter brigade with the
        keys to a Twizy prototype adapted to firefighters' needs.

        The Twizy prototype was co-developed by Renault, Renault Tech, the company's
        vehicle conversion subsidiary, and the Paris firefighter brigade. The
        special model was designed for early interventions ahead of the arrival of
        more consequential lifesaving equipment.

        The rear seat has been replaced by a trunk used to store emergency response
        equipment, i.e. two fire extinguishers, two oxygen tanks, a fire suit, a
        helmet and a first-aid kit.

        Tests of the prototype will begin in November for an eight-month period, the
        aim being to use Twizy as a support vehicle in Paris and its immediate
        suburbs and when setting up temporary safety installations (for major public
        events, July 14, New Year's Eve, etc.). The Paris firefighter brigade is
        reviewing the long-term possibility of setting up a fleet of light electric
        vehicles, for more efficiency and environmental respect.

        For Claire Petit Boulanger, tertiary safety officer at Renault, "This
        initial prototype is real-life proof of the research and development work
        carried out together with the emergency services, demonstrating Renault's
        ability and determination to innovate to meet the needs of firefighters."

        Renault and the French national firefighter association, FNSPF, signed a
        partnership agreement on June 21, 2012 to step up their collaborative
        efforts in fields including technical cooperation and donating vehicles to
        firefighters for vehicle-extrication training.
        * Renault subsidiary dedicated to additional adaptations
        [? 2012 AOL All rights reserved]



        http://www.renaultzeforum.com/forums/Thread-The-Twizy-s-other-uses
        [images] Some of the other applications for a Renault Twizy...
        08-04-2012

        [images
        https://p.twimg.com/Ax8ThRUCMAArXsF.jpg:large
        First responder

        http://ambulance-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/3728.jpg

        http://files.bos-fahrzeuge.info/vehicles/photos/b/d/4/a/208224-large.jpg
        ] [? 2012 MyBB Group]




        For all EVLN posts use:
        http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date

        Here are today's archive-only posts:

        EVLN: Hampstead Women's Club donation recharges Topsail-HS EV Program
        EVLN: Get off the road!, scene: me, my e-bike, and China
        EVLN: RAC EVs To Deliver ~90 Electric Buses/Trucks in 2013
        EVLN: Not the 1st EV of Paraguay r:120km
        EVLN: BAE/Northrop-Grumman GCV hybrid replacing the Bradley
        +
        EVLN: Tacita T-Race Enduro Cross-Country Electric Motorcycle


        {brucedp.150m.com}



        --
        View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Renault-Tech-s-firefighting-Twizy-EV-for-quick-interventions-tp4659697.html
        Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


        ------------------------------

        Message: 5
        Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:49:14 -0500
        From: "EVDL Administrator" <evpost@...>
        To: ev@...
        Subject: [EVDL] SJSU list (please read)
        Message-ID: <50BA18EA.6153.4D42B816@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

        As I've posted before, the old SJSU list was scheduled to shut down at the
        end of the day yesterday. I asked SJSU to consider either forwarding the
        old list's email addresses to the new one, or configuring their mailserver
        so that bounces from those addresses would contain info on the new list.

        They declined both requests, but did extend the life of the old list to 21
        November.

        If you've subscribed to the new list at evdl.org, some time in the next few
        days, maybe today, you'll be unsubscribed from the old list at sjsu.edu.

        Once that's done, I'll use the old SJSU list solely to send out shutdown
        warnings, a sort of last chance for the nearly 1400 people who haven't yet
        made the jump.

        If you have comments or suggestions, they're probably best sent to my
        private offlist address (see below).

        David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
        EVDL Administrator

        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
        reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
        email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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        ------------------------------

        Message: 6
        Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 15:20:54 -0500
        From: "EVDL Administrator" <evpost@...>
        To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
        Subject: Re: [EVDL] SJSU list (please read)
        Message-ID: <50BA2056.6389.4D5FB72D@...>
        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

        On 1 Dec 2012 at 14:49, EVDL Administrator wrote:

        > They declined both requests, but did extend the life of the old list to 21
        > November.

        Obviously, I meant 21 December. Sorry!

        Everyone on the new list who was also on the old list has now been
        unsubscribed from the old list (410 people).

        Interesting and a bit surprising : 42 people were on the new list, but
        couldn't be unsubbed from the old list because they weren't there. Not sure
        how we got so many newbies - maybe some are just new addresses for longtime
        friends - but in any case, a hearty welcome to y'all!

        David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
        EVDL Administrator

        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
        Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
        reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
        email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
        = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




        ------------------------------

        _______________________________________________
        EV@...
        For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
        http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org


        End of EV Digest, Vol 2, Issue 1
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