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Re: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: My 1982 off-metal cent story

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  • Rob Risi
    YES I AGREE THAT SLABS HIDE THE EDGES AND THE RIMS OF ERROR COINS AND CANNOT THEN BE SEEN.....STILL GET IT CERTIFIED AND THEN CRACK IT OUT AND KEEP THE
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 2, 2005
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      YES I AGREE THAT SLABS HIDE THE EDGES AND THE RIMS OF ERROR COINS AND CANNOT THEN BE SEEN.....STILL GET IT CERTIFIED AND THEN CRACK IT OUT AND KEEP THE CERTIFICATION LABEL, IN CASE YOU DO EVER SELL IT...YOU SHOULD KNOW FOR SURE ITS AUTHENTICITY.....JUST MY OPINION. GOOD LUCK
      ROB

      mrlindy2000 <adkinstone@...> wrote:
      Rob, Some of my errors get bought for some future resale, others
      get bought for my own sheer amusement with no future resale inmind.
      Errors are more fun to play with raw. In a slab the eight little
      scallops on the 1982 cent were not as evident. In fact when Fred
      ebay'd this 1982 a couple times a couple years ago it closed without
      interest. I bet atleast six months passed before I asked him for a
      upclose looky~see.

      If I slabbed this Scallop Cent I'd have to continually crack it
      out...

      Lindy

      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Rob Risi
      <rjrisi@y...> wrote:
      > EHY MR LINDY, GET THAT BRASS SCALLOP CENT CERTIFIED BY NGC.....DO
      IT.
      > ITS WORTH IT!!!!!
      > ROB
      >
      > mrlindy2000 <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
      > Hey Mike W,
      >
      > Rich S has a really cool 1970's proof 25c on copper japanese made
      > struck coin. Kinda hard to explain how a Japan made copper coin
      > found its way into the hopper for proof 25c blanks which are then
      > hand fed and multistruck and hand removed , then placed in stacks
      of
      > trays for several inhouse inspections by numerous mint staff thru
      > the proof coinages' packaging without assuming any assistance of
      any
      > US Mint employees. But its real and certified, as it should be.
      > Indeed it's US Mint made and thats all that matters to
      encapsulation
      > providers. Rare? Heck yes! I've never seen another in print.
      > Logical, explainable thats up to individual error collectors to
      > decide. Its for sale at Rich Schemmer's web site. It's over
      $10,000.
      > Maybe $25,000?
      >
      > I think my brass scallop 1982 cent is a real error without the
      > assist, but I'll never know for sure. Since the blank was 4 years
      > old when struck it seems kinda unlikely. But, 1982 was the year
      the
      > Mints flushed all their copper penny blanks out for the upcoming
      > zinc based cent changes, so it's conceivable to me. Since it
      > is .05mm narrower than a 1c blank 19.10 vs 19.05 that helps too.
      No
      > problems collar striking scallop 5s with 1c dies and collar. When
      > Fred sold me this 1982 scallop cent, it was slabbed and I could
      not
      > wait to crack it out to inspect it. Very very Cool! I only knew of
      > only one other scallop cent at the time, Natalie Halpern's no date
      > off center on a scallop 5s blank cent from her 1980's Big Apple. A
      > cover coin for her back then.
      >
      > Lindy
      >
      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mwallace56"
      > <mwallace56@e...> wrote:
      > > There's another curious, and dubious, piece pictured in Breen's
      > > Encyclopedia of US and Colonial Proof Coins. It's a 1970-S Proof
      > > Quarter overstruck on a 1900 Barber Quarter.
      > >
      > > --- In
      errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
      > > <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
      > > > Here's my favorite 1982 off metal error cent. Unlike the War
      > nickel
      > > > on V 5c I just posted I think it's possible my 1982 1c on 5s
      is
      > an
      > > > error even though the US Mint stopped making scallop 5
      sentimos
      > > > strikes after 1977. Just a 4 year spread for this lost scallop
      > to
      > > > find a die pair as opposed to the 34 years the worn out V
      nickel
      > > > languished in the Mint.
      > > >
      > > > Thank you Fred! May I have another?
      >
      > http://users.adelphia.net/~adkinstone/821cPhill5s.jpg
      >
      > http://users.adelphia.net/~adkinstone/821cPhill5sb.jpg
      >
      > > > Lindy
      > > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Mike Diamond
      I agree with Lindy that there is seldom any reason to waste one s money by sending an error coin into be slabbed. There are only a few categories in which
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 2, 2005
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        I agree with Lindy that there is seldom any reason to waste one's
        money by sending an error coin into be slabbed. There are only a few
        categories in which authenticity is in doubt.

        I HAVE had a few zinc cents darken a bit after cracking them out, so
        there is an argument to be made for keeping at least some zinc cents
        in their slabs.

        It is often the case that an error coin's value is diminished when a
        description comes back that underplays or omits the most significant
        aspect of an error. I just bought a triple-struck quarter in which
        the most significant aspect of the error was omitted; that the second
        strike was exceedingly weak ("die trial" strength). I'm not
        complaining, of course. These omissions are one reason why slabs
        provide some of the best cherrypicking opportunities out there.

        As I've often said, any error that is novel, obscure, subtle,
        compound, or complex is likely to come back with a description that
        is incorrect, incomplete, inaccurate, hopelessly nonspecific, or
        completely speculative.

        Rob, you just bought a double or triple-struck nickel that was
        labeled as a double-struck reverse die cap. As we established, the
        coin may or may not have been a reverse die cap, but did feature
        a "sandwich strike" on the final strike with a full indent on the
        obverse and a partial indent on the reverse. The first strike
        featured a full brockage. Now, there was insufficient space on the
        label to incorporate even a fraction of this information, but even
        with the space constraints a more accurate and more helpful label
        could have been devised.

        Slabs are bulky and, as Lindy points out, they prevent detailed
        examination. You can't see the edge, you can't weigh them, you can't
        do a specific gravity test, you can't test the "ring", you might not
        get a magnetic pull from a small steel object embedded in the coin,
        etc.

        Grading on error coins is completely arbitrary. Badly damaged coins
        are often awarded high MS grades, while weakly struck coins
        and "grease strikes" are often undergraded. Just my experience and
        impressions.

        By the way, I remember seeing that scalloped cents years ago. I
        didn't bite. I might have had I spent the time to research it and
        had realized it was four years "late". It's a neat off-metal error.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Rob Risi
        <rjrisi@y...> wrote:
        > YES I AGREE THAT SLABS HIDE THE EDGES AND THE RIMS OF ERROR COINS
        AND CANNOT THEN BE SEEN.....STILL GET IT CERTIFIED AND THEN CRACK IT
        OUT AND KEEP THE CERTIFICATION LABEL, IN CASE YOU DO EVER SELL
        IT...YOU SHOULD KNOW FOR SURE ITS AUTHENTICITY.....JUST MY OPINION.
        GOOD LUCK
        > ROB
        >
        > mrlindy2000 <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
        > Rob, Some of my errors get bought for some future resale, others
        > get bought for my own sheer amusement with no future resale inmind.
        > Errors are more fun to play with raw. In a slab the eight little
        > scallops on the 1982 cent were not as evident. In fact when Fred
        > ebay'd this 1982 a couple times a couple years ago it closed
        without
        > interest. I bet atleast six months passed before I asked him for a
        > upclose looky~see.
        >
        > If I slabbed this Scallop Cent I'd have to continually crack it
        > out...
        >
        > Lindy
      • Mike Diamond
        ... Here s a perfect example from today s eBay lineup. http://tinyurl.com/9kham This coin is slabbed as a partial brockage , a very ho-hum diagnosis. It s
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 2, 2005
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          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
          <mdia1@a...> wrote:

          > It is often the case that an error coin's value is diminished when a
          > description comes back that underplays or omits the most significant
          > aspect of an error.

          Here's a perfect example from today's eBay lineup.

          http://tinyurl.com/9kham

          This coin is slabbed as a "partial brockage", a very ho-hum diagnosis.
          It's actually a brockage from a struck fragment, a rarer and more
          desirable error.
        • mwallace56
          Mike, I actually agree with you and Lindy 100%. I have been collecting errors for about 30 years now, and until recently had NEVER sent one in to be slabbed or
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005
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            Mike,

            I actually agree with you and Lindy 100%. I have been collecting
            errors for about 30 years now, and until recently had NEVER sent one
            in to be slabbed or even bought one slabbed. I too do as you two say
            you do, i.e. weigh each piece, check the edges, check specific gravity
            when necessary, etc., etc., etc. However, with that being said, I'm
            not getting any younger. One day I'll no longer be here. Slabbed coins
            are simply a numismatic reality today. Slabbed coins are easier to
            sell and usually bring more money. I have no intention of selling any
            of my coins, but I want to make it easier for my heirs to, so I've
            begun sending in some of the better pieces. A friend of mine, who also
            resisted slabbing for years began slabbing his coins a few years ago
            for the same reason. I eventually followed suit.

            Mike W.


            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
            <mdia1@a...> wrote:
            > I agree with Lindy that there is seldom any reason to waste one's
            > money by sending an error coin into be slabbed. There are only a few
            > categories in which authenticity is in doubt.
            >
            > I HAVE had a few zinc cents darken a bit after cracking them out, so
            > there is an argument to be made for keeping at least some zinc cents
            > in their slabs.
            >
            > It is often the case that an error coin's value is diminished when a
            > description comes back that underplays or omits the most significant
            > aspect of an error. I just bought a triple-struck quarter in which
            > the most significant aspect of the error was omitted; that the second
            > strike was exceedingly weak ("die trial" strength). I'm not
            > complaining, of course. These omissions are one reason why slabs
            > provide some of the best cherrypicking opportunities out there.
            >
            > As I've often said, any error that is novel, obscure, subtle,
            > compound, or complex is likely to come back with a description that
            > is incorrect, incomplete, inaccurate, hopelessly nonspecific, or
            > completely speculative.
            >
            > Rob, you just bought a double or triple-struck nickel that was
            > labeled as a double-struck reverse die cap. As we established, the
            > coin may or may not have been a reverse die cap, but did feature
            > a "sandwich strike" on the final strike with a full indent on the
            > obverse and a partial indent on the reverse. The first strike
            > featured a full brockage. Now, there was insufficient space on the
            > label to incorporate even a fraction of this information, but even
            > with the space constraints a more accurate and more helpful label
            > could have been devised.
            >
            > Slabs are bulky and, as Lindy points out, they prevent detailed
            > examination. You can't see the edge, you can't weigh them, you can't
            > do a specific gravity test, you can't test the "ring", you might not
            > get a magnetic pull from a small steel object embedded in the coin,
            > etc.
            >
            > Grading on error coins is completely arbitrary. Badly damaged coins
            > are often awarded high MS grades, while weakly struck coins
            > and "grease strikes" are often undergraded. Just my experience and
            > impressions.
            >
            > By the way, I remember seeing that scalloped cents years ago. I
            > didn't bite. I might have had I spent the time to research it and
            > had realized it was four years "late". It's a neat off-metal error.
            >
          • mdia1@aol.com
            I understand your reasoning. In a message dated 10/3/05 6:42:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mwallace56@earthlink.net writes: Mike, I actually agree with you
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005
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              I understand your reasoning.
               
              In a message dated 10/3/05 6:42:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mwallace56@... writes:
              Mike,

              I actually agree with you and Lindy 100%. I have been collecting
              errors for about 30 years now, and until recently had NEVER sent one
              in to be slabbed or even bought one slabbed. I too do as you two say
              you do, i.e. weigh each piece, check the edges, check specific gravity
              when necessary, etc., etc., etc. However, with that being said, I'm
              not getting any younger. One day I'll no longer be here. Slabbed coins
              are simply a numismatic reality today. Slabbed coins are easier to
              sell and usually bring more money. I have no intention of selling any
              of my coins, but I want to make it easier for my heirs to, so I've
              begun sending in some of the better pieces. A friend of mine, who also
              resisted slabbing for years began slabbing his coins a few years ago
              for the same reason. I eventually followed suit.

              Mike W.
               
            • Mike Diamond
              Slabbing wouldn t do me much good. Most of my coins are those obscure, subtle, novel, complex, and compound errors that grading services are not
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005
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                Slabbing wouldn't do me much good. Most of my coins are
                those "obscure, subtle, novel, complex, and compound" errors that
                grading services are not well-equipped to deal with. I can see
                slabbing some errors like Sac/SBA or SBA/Sac transitional errors, where
                fakery could be a problem.

                I've been slowly selling off my redundant and lower-quality specimens,
                as well as ones I've finished researching or otherwise lost interest
                in. I intend to continue to do so until my collection is down to an
                essential core. That way my heirs won't have so much to worry about.
                Also, by selling off some coins I can afford to buy new ones!
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