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Re: Whats a cent stock 10c weigh?

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  • Mike Diamond
    First of all, the slab labels are wrong. None of these coins are on cent stock . There is no such thing as cent stock. There is only zinc core stock. The
    Message 1 of 6 , May 5, 2005
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      First of all, the slab labels are wrong. None of these coins are
      on "cent stock". There is no such thing as cent stock. There is only
      zinc core stock. The copper plating is applied after the planchets are
      upset.

      I had thought these were cut-down cent planchets or blanks. But
      information provided by Mike Byers a few months back shot that down.
      They are much too heavy for a copper-plated zinc cent planchet cut down
      to dime size. You can go back through the archives (a pain, I know) to
      find the weight he reported. Byers also reported weak or absent
      reeding around some parts of the edge. That would indicate that the
      unstruck planchet or blank was undersized -- smaller than a dime.

      The accumulated evidence might indicate a foreign, copper-clad zinc
      planchet. However, it makes no sense to leave the zinc core exposed.
      It would corrode in no time. Perhaps these are cut-down foreign copper-
      plated zinc planchets from a denomination that is thicker than a cent.


      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
      <adkinstone@a...> wrote:

      > I realize theres a few of these cent stock dimes about on dealer
      > websites. Knowing how bright red the copper wash can be on clad
      coins,
      > I am wondering what a dime struck on 1c stock should weigh? I wish
      the
      > weight of it was included on the slab label.
      >
      > http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
      > ViewItem&item=6526910232
    • Mike Diamond
      Hey, everyone. We re able to do full archive searches again. Yipee! Type in cent stock . Make sure you use quotes. That way the two words are associated
      Message 2 of 6 , May 5, 2005
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        Hey, everyone. We're able to do full archive searches again.
        Yipee! Type in "cent stock". Make sure you use quotes. That way
        the two words are associated with each other. The weight that Mike
        Byers cited is 2.9 grams, which is WAY more than a cut-down cent
        planchet should weigh. A cut-down cent planchet should weigh less
        than 2.5 grams.

        With this heavy weight, the smaller-than-dime size planchet would
        have to have been much thicker than either a cent or a dime. Either
        that, or the core is not zinc, but a higher density metal. I wonder
        if anyone has done a specific gravity test.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
        <mdia1@a...> wrote:
        > First of all, the slab labels are wrong. None of these coins are
        > on "cent stock". There is no such thing as cent stock. There is
        only
        > zinc core stock. The copper plating is applied after the planchets
        are
        > upset.
        >
        > I had thought these were cut-down cent planchets or blanks. But
        > information provided by Mike Byers a few months back shot that
        down.
        > They are much too heavy for a copper-plated zinc cent planchet cut
        down
        > to dime size. You can go back through the archives (a pain, I
        know) to
        > find the weight he reported. Byers also reported weak or absent
        > reeding around some parts of the edge. That would indicate that
        the
        > unstruck planchet or blank was undersized -- smaller than a dime.
        >
        > The accumulated evidence might indicate a foreign, copper-clad zinc
        > planchet. However, it makes no sense to leave the zinc core
        exposed.
        > It would corrode in no time. Perhaps these are cut-down foreign
        copper-
        > plated zinc planchets from a denomination that is thicker than a
        cent.
        >
        >
        > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
        > <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
        >
        > > I realize theres a few of these cent stock dimes about on dealer
        > > websites. Knowing how bright red the copper wash can be on clad
        > coins,
        > > I am wondering what a dime struck on 1c stock should weigh? I
        wish
        > the
        > > weight of it was included on the slab label.
        > >
        > > http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
        > > ViewItem&item=6526910232
      • Mike Diamond
        What exactly happens when you attempt to do a search? Is anyone else facing the same difficulties? Maybe like access to full size images, Yahoo restricts
        Message 3 of 6 , May 5, 2005
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          What exactly happens when you attempt to do a search? Is anyone else
          facing the same difficulties? Maybe like access to full size images,
          Yahoo restricts full search privileges to the owner and moderators.
          If so, that's very unfortunate.

          I strongly doubt that the outer margin of these coins was sheared off
          by the collar during the strike. It is almost impossible for an
          oversized planchet to pass through the feeding mechanism. Only a few
          strikes on oversized planchets are known among U.S. coins.

          Each one of these "cent stock dimes" is perfectly centered. To have
          each of these "sheared broadstrikes" perfectly centered is not at all
          likely. To have them all sheared (rather than broadstruck) is
          equally unlikely. The closest error to these would be an elliptical
          strike clip, and none have been reported since 1994. None at all are
          known among dimes (although I strongly suspect some exist).

          The reported weakness or absence of reeding along parts of the edge
          is not what you'd expect of this kind of "circular strike clip".

          Also, you'd expect to see microscopic stress splits (from stretching)
          in the copper plating along the periphery of the reverse. This has
          not been reported.

          You'd also expect to see a weakly-struck, rounded shoulder on the
          reverse face. This too is not in evidence.

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
          <adkinstone@a...> wrote:

          > The seach does not work for me. At least you have access to the
          > poweful engine again.
          >
          > 2.9 grams and exposed zinc in the reeding.
          >
          > I agree its not usa cent stock.
          >
          > I remember Byers saying all his pieces he saw or owned had exposed
          > zinc.
          >
          > Looks to me like a few oversized foreign planchets or mint medal
          > planchets that manually got fed into the dime dies and then edges
          > sheared away by the collar due to the larger size. We know how
          > delicate copper plated zinc is because of strike clips.
          >
          > At Rich's website I see he sold the finest known for $9,500.
          >
          > It would be fun to own and study but even at $1,600 to start its
          way
          > above my error collecting budget.
          >
          > I bet it hits $3,000 plus the fees.
          >
          > Lindy
        • Marc
          Hi Guys. Continuing with this thought I ve been reading upon coming home from work.Is it possible that these copper dimes are dime stock maybe close to the end
          Message 4 of 6 , May 5, 2005
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            Hi Guys. Continuing with this thought I've been reading upon coming
            home from work.Is it possible that these copper dimes are dime stock
            maybe close to the end of the sheet where the thickness of the now
            copper core stock is rolled for an inch or two to dime thickness
            before the sheet ends? The clad might have ended 2 inches before? A
            planchet or 2 might have been punched out of this now clad-less end of
            sheet stock with the correct (or close to) thickness. I see this in
            other denominations where clad turns to copper at the end of the
            sheet. Just a thought....Marc
          • Mike Diamond
            I don t see how these could be dime stock when you ve got copper plating (or copper cladding) over a zinc or zinc-colored core. You seem to be describing a
            Message 5 of 6 , May 5, 2005
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              I don't see how these could be dime stock when you've got copper
              plating (or copper cladding) over a zinc or zinc-colored core. You
              seem to be describing a pure copper dime. But in these coins, the zinc
              core is visible on the edge.

              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Marc"
              <numismistake@y...> wrote:
              > Hi Guys. Continuing with this thought I've been reading upon coming
              > home from work.Is it possible that these copper dimes are dime stock
              > maybe close to the end of the sheet where the thickness of the now
              > copper core stock is rolled for an inch or two to dime thickness
              > before the sheet ends? The clad might have ended 2 inches before? A
              > planchet or 2 might have been punched out of this now clad-less end
              of
              > sheet stock with the correct (or close to) thickness. I see this in
              > other denominations where clad turns to copper at the end of the
              > sheet. Just a thought....Marc
            • Mike Diamond
              Just for the record, a dime struck on a cent planchet cut down to the size of a dime planchet should weigh around 2.21 grams. At 2.9 grams these dimes struck
              Message 6 of 6 , May 5, 2005
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                Just for the record, a dime struck on a cent planchet cut down to the
                size of a dime planchet should weigh around 2.21 grams. At 2.9 grams
                these "dimes struck on cent stock" are way too heavy.
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