Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Strange struck-through cent

Expand Messages
  • Rafael Delgado
    Could this have anything to do with (grease n metal-dust) dirty dies? Rafael ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/errorcoininformationexchange/ ...
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 4, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Could this have anything to do with (grease n' metal-dust)
      dirty dies?
      Rafael


      --- Jon Sullivan <errcoins@...> wrote:

      > Hi Mike,
      >
      > Thanks for the responses. They sound plausible, and of
      > course I know
      > you can't say for sure without seeing the coin, but I
      > knew you'd have
      > an opinion, which is why I asked :-)
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Jon
      >
      >
      > On Sunday, October 3, 2004, at 08:19 AM, Mike Diamond
      > wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
      > Jon Sullivan
      > > <errcoins@b...> wrote:
      > > > Hi Mike,
      > > >
      > > > Did you see the cent strike through that Rich has on
      > eBay right
      > > now.
      > > > the one which is doubled-sided? Any idea as to how it
      > was made?
      > > >
      > > > Jon
      > >
      > > I assume you mean this coin:
      > >
      > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
      > > ViewItem&category=524&item=3933508833
      > >
      > > I confess that I am baffled by this one.� I have seen
      > this custard-
      > > like texture before, but only on the obverse face.� I
      > had previously
      > > assumed that it was from an oddly wrinkled die cap.�
      > Its presence on
      > > both faces is very puzzling.
      > >
      > > The doubled date is odd, too.� The stronger date, while
      > weak, has
      > > sharp outlines.� That's not what you'd expect in a
      > capped die
      > > strike.� The weaker date appears smaller, which is also
      > odd.� It
      > > would be interesting to hear whether the smaller date
      > is raised or
      > > incuse.
      > >
      > > I don't know if the cent is double-struck, as Rich
      > claims.� The
      > > doubling may be due to some other cause.
      > >
      > > Whatever it is, it is fascinating.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > <image.tiff>
      > >
      > >
      > <image.tiff>
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/errorcoininformationexchange/
      > > �
      > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > >
      > errorcoininformationexchange-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > �
      > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      > Terms of Service.
      > >
      >




      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
      http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
    • Mike Diamond
      That s possible but, again, I ve previously only seen this texture associated with the obverse (hammer) die. That suggests a die cap or cap-like obstruction.
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 4, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        That's possible but, again, I've previously only seen this texture
        associated with the obverse (hammer) die. That suggests a die cap or
        cap-like obstruction. I've also seen apparent shifted cap strikes
        with this texture, which would again support the die cap
        interpretation.

        On the other hand, "grease strikes" are often found on both dies,
        while I've never seen a coin struck by a die cap on both dies.

        So I will admit that all my hypotheses are saddled with an
        unacceptably high degree of uncertainty.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Rafael Delgado
        <my_errors@y...> wrote:
        > Could this have anything to do with (grease n' metal-dust)
        > dirty dies?
        > Rafael
      • Mike Diamond
        I edged out midnitesurfer for the chance to thoroughly examine this specimen. I hope I can narrow down the possibilities after I get it. I will give you all
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 9, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          I edged out midnitesurfer for the chance to thoroughly examine this
          specimen. I hope I can narrow down the possibilities after I get
          it. I will give you all a full report next week (or as soon as it
          arrives).

          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3933508833

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
          <mdia1@a...> wrote:
          >
          > That's possible but, again, I've previously only seen this texture
          > associated with the obverse (hammer) die. That suggests a die cap
          or
          > cap-like obstruction. I've also seen apparent shifted cap strikes
          > with this texture, which would again support the die cap
          > interpretation.
          >
          > On the other hand, "grease strikes" are often found on both dies,
          > while I've never seen a coin struck by a die cap on both dies.
          >
          > So I will admit that all my hypotheses are saddled with an
          > unacceptably high degree of uncertainty.
          >
          > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Rafael Delgado
          > <my_errors@y...> wrote:
          > > Could this have anything to do with (grease n' metal-dust)
          > > dirty dies?
          > > Rafael
        • Mike Diamond
          I just received the coin that stimulated quite a bit of conjecture: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3933508833 The last hypothesis I
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 18, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            I just received the coin that stimulated quite a bit of conjecture:

            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3933508833

            The last hypothesis I introduced appears to be the correct one. It
            looks like the first strike was normal (or nearly so) and the second
            strike was between a different set of dies that were covered by die
            caps or cap-like obstructions. The perfect alignment between the two
            strikes appears to be coincidental.

            The coin is expanded to beyond the size of a nickel. The clearer of
            the two dates (2000) is flattened in a way that can only be
            accomplished through a second strike. The outer parts of the
            peripheral letters are clear and reach the rim, despite the
            significant expansion of the coin. This is also characteristic of a
            double strike beneath a cap or planchet. Farther toward the center
            of the coin those same letters are flattened in the same way that the
            date is. The manner of flattening is very similar to my double
            struck nickel in which the second strike was through a late-stage die
            cap.

            So this coin represents a remarkable series of events.

            Thanks, Rich!

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Jon Sullivan
            <errcoins@b...> wrote:

            > Hi Mike,
            >
            > Thanks for the responses. They sound plausible, and of course I
            know
            > you can't say for sure without seeing the coin, but I knew you'd
            have
            > an opinion, which is why I asked :-)
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Jon
          • Mike Diamond
            As to whether this would qualify as a full sandwich strike on the second strike, that would be iffy. Generally the term sandwich strike is applied to a
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 18, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              As to whether this would qualify as a "full sandwich strike" on the
              second strike, that would be iffy. Generally the term "sandwich
              strike" is applied to a coin or planchet that is struck between two
              other coins or planchets. I don't think deteriorated caps or cap-
              like obstructions qualify.

              Still, it's a pretty neat set of circumstances.

              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
              <mdia1@a...> wrote:
              >
              > I just received the coin that stimulated quite a bit of conjecture:
              >
              > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3933508833
              >
              > The last hypothesis I introduced appears to be the correct one. It
              > looks like the first strike was normal (or nearly so) and the
              second
              > strike was between a different set of dies that were covered by die
              > caps or cap-like obstructions. The perfect alignment between the
              two
              > strikes appears to be coincidental.
              >
              > The coin is expanded to beyond the size of a nickel. The clearer
              of
              > the two dates (2000) is flattened in a way that can only be
              > accomplished through a second strike. The outer parts of the
              > peripheral letters are clear and reach the rim, despite the
              > significant expansion of the coin. This is also characteristic of
              a
              > double strike beneath a cap or planchet. Farther toward the center
              > of the coin those same letters are flattened in the same way that
              the
              > date is. The manner of flattening is very similar to my double
              > struck nickel in which the second strike was through a late-stage
              die
              > cap.
              >
              > So this coin represents a remarkable series of events.
            • Mike Diamond
              The perfect alignment between the first and second strike remains disturbing. There is only a 1 in 360 chance that a coin will end up in this orientation when
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 19, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                The perfect alignment between the first and second strike remains
                disturbing. There is only a 1 in 360 chance that a coin will end up
                in this orientation when shunted to a different striking chamber.
                Still, all the remaining physical evidence points to this being the
                case.

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                <mdia1@a...> wrote:
                >
                > As to whether this would qualify as a "full sandwich strike" on the
                > second strike, that would be iffy. Generally the term "sandwich
                > strike" is applied to a coin or planchet that is struck between two
                > other coins or planchets. I don't think deteriorated caps or cap-
                > like obstructions qualify.
                >
                > Still, it's a pretty neat set of circumstances.
              • Rich Schemmer
                Your welcome, Mike I knew this coin would get your attention as It did mine when it was offered to me at the ANA. Thanx Rich Rich Schemmer Error Coins
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 19, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Your welcome, Mike I knew this coin would get your attention as It
                  did mine when it was offered to me at the ANA.
                  Thanx
                  Rich
                  Rich Schemmer Error Coins
                  http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php

                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                  <mdia1@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I just received the coin that stimulated quite a bit of conjecture:
                  >
                  > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3933508833
                  >
                  > The last hypothesis I introduced appears to be the correct one. It
                  > looks like the first strike was normal (or nearly so) and the
                  second
                  > strike was between a different set of dies that were covered by die
                  > caps or cap-like obstructions. The perfect alignment between the
                  two
                  > strikes appears to be coincidental.
                  >
                  > The coin is expanded to beyond the size of a nickel. The clearer
                  of
                  > the two dates (2000) is flattened in a way that can only be
                  > accomplished through a second strike. The outer parts of the
                  > peripheral letters are clear and reach the rim, despite the
                  > significant expansion of the coin. This is also characteristic of
                  a
                  > double strike beneath a cap or planchet. Farther toward the center
                  > of the coin those same letters are flattened in the same way that
                  the
                  > date is. The manner of flattening is very similar to my double
                  > struck nickel in which the second strike was through a late-stage
                  die
                  > cap.
                  >
                  > So this coin represents a remarkable series of events.
                  >
                  > Thanks, Rich!
                  >
                  > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Jon Sullivan
                  > <errcoins@b...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi Mike,
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for the responses. They sound plausible, and of course I
                  > know
                  > > you can't say for sure without seeing the coin, but I knew you'd
                  > have
                  > > an opinion, which is why I asked :-)
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Jon
                • Mike Diamond
                  It s also possible that the perfect alignment between first and second strikes could be due to an assist from a mischeivous mint worker. Maybe someone just
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 19, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It's also possible that the perfect alignment between first and
                    second strikes could be due to an assist from a mischeivous mint
                    worker. Maybe someone just wanted to see what a struck cent would
                    look like when placed between a pair of die caps. Anything's
                    possible.

                    This is certainly one for the books.

                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                    <mdia1@a...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The perfect alignment between the first and second strike remains
                    > disturbing. There is only a 1 in 360 chance that a coin will end
                    up
                    > in this orientation when shunted to a different striking chamber.
                    > Still, all the remaining physical evidence points to this being the
                    > case.
                  • Mike Diamond
                    Another neat thing to appreciate is that this coin provides one exception to the rule that you cannot get an enlarged coin that shows expansion of the raised
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 19, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Another neat thing to appreciate is that this coin provides one
                      exception to the rule that you cannot get an enlarged coin that shows
                      expansion of the raised design on both faces.

                      There are lots of "giant coins" out there that show proportional
                      expansion on both faces. These are allegedly hammered between two
                      pieces of leather to acheive this effect.

                      The coin I got from Rich obviously looks nothing like these fakes,
                      except that both faces do show expansion of the design.

                      Any full sandwich strike on a struck coin would also be expected to
                      show expansion of the design on both faces. I haven't seen one yet.
                      I have seen full sandwich strikes with a full brockage on the obverse
                      and an expanded raised design on the reverse. I have one
                      (regrettfully mangled after the strike) and Glen Burger had one. I
                      suspect that if you were able to pry apart some bonded coins, you
                      will find expansion of the raised design of both faces of some of the
                      coins in the stack.

                      I once thought I had a full sandwich strike on an already-struck 2000-
                      D cent. But I now believe that one is a fake.
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.