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Dual Date Dual Denomination Coins - ANACS Pop report

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  • seanqueue
    Part Two of my post, here are additional examples I found while reading through the March 2002 ANACS population report. These are all in addition to the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 2, 2004
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      Part Two of my post, here are additional examples I found while
      reading through the March 2002 ANACS population report. These are all
      in addition to the Jonathan Warren collection coins in my prior post:

      1976-D cent on 1973 dime, ANACS 63 (a Denver cent over Philly dime,
      tell me this one didn't have a little help...)
      1978 cent on 1977 dime, ANACS 63
      1982 LD cent on 1981-P dime, two listed, one ANACS 60, one ANACS 64
      1990 cent on 1989-P dime, ANACS 65
      1991 cent on 1990-P dime, ANACS 63
      1998 cent on 1997-P dime, two listed in addition to the two in the
      Warren collection, one ANACS 64 and one ANACS 65
      1998 cent on 1997 cent, ANACS 64 RD (this may be the coin that started
      this whole thread)
      1964-D nickel on damaged India 1940 1/4 Rupee, ANACS 60 (another one
      that had a bunch of help)
      1981-P nickel in 1980 cent, ANACS 63RB
      1991-P nickel on 1990-P dime, ANACS 61 (could this be the same coin as
      the one NGC garded MS64?!?)
      1993-P nickel on 1992 cent, ANACS 64RB

      All told, that makes twenty-four coins in the Warren collection plus
      another 13 in the ANACS pops. The 91-P nickel on 90-P dime could be a
      duplicate, if so that still makes an even three-dozen known, plus the
      broadstrike linked in Lindy's second post.

      Sean Reynolds
      CONECA #N-2090
    • fred_weinberg
      Sean, when I said one or two exceptions , the sentence was referring to what was available in the current market place....not the total number of coins known.
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 2, 2004
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        Sean, when I said "one or two exceptions", the sentence
        was referring to what was available in the current
        market place....not the total number of coins known.

        Also, I believe that some of those ANACS pieces are
        in PCGS holders, from the Auction, so they are duplicates.

        Yes, J. Warren was the collector who had accumulated
        the largest collection of dual date coins.

        The last Dual Date coins I am aware of are the four
        pieces I handled of 2000-dated Cents struck on 1999
        Struck Dimes - Dual Dates, Dual Century, Dual Millinium,
        and one of the rare times where "next year" dual dates
        did not have a single diget in common with each other!!

        Fred


        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > Part Two of my post, here are additional examples I found while
        > reading through the March 2002 ANACS population report. These are
        all
        > in addition to the Jonathan Warren collection coins in my prior
        post:
        >
        > 1976-D cent on 1973 dime, ANACS 63 (a Denver cent over Philly dime,
        > tell me this one didn't have a little help...)
        > 1978 cent on 1977 dime, ANACS 63
        > 1982 LD cent on 1981-P dime, two listed, one ANACS 60, one ANACS 64
        > 1990 cent on 1989-P dime, ANACS 65
        > 1991 cent on 1990-P dime, ANACS 63
        > 1998 cent on 1997-P dime, two listed in addition to the two in the
        > Warren collection, one ANACS 64 and one ANACS 65
        > 1998 cent on 1997 cent, ANACS 64 RD (this may be the coin that
        started
        > this whole thread)
        > 1964-D nickel on damaged India 1940 1/4 Rupee, ANACS 60 (another
        one
        > that had a bunch of help)
        > 1981-P nickel in 1980 cent, ANACS 63RB
        > 1991-P nickel on 1990-P dime, ANACS 61 (could this be the same
        coin as
        > the one NGC garded MS64?!?)
        > 1993-P nickel on 1992 cent, ANACS 64RB
        >
        > All told, that makes twenty-four coins in the Warren collection
        plus
        > another 13 in the ANACS pops. The 91-P nickel on 90-P dime could
        be a
        > duplicate, if so that still makes an even three-dozen known, plus
        the
        > broadstrike linked in Lindy's second post.
        >
        > Sean Reynolds
        > CONECA #N-2090
      • seanqueue
        ... I understand - I d love to know where some of the coins in the ANACS report are hiding. Not just the dual-denom stuff, either - the pop report lists four
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 2, 2004
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          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Sean, when I said "one or two exceptions", the sentence
          > was referring to what was available in the current
          > market place....not the total number of coins known.

          I understand - I'd love to know where some of the coins in the ANACS
          report are hiding. Not just the dual-denom stuff, either - the pop
          report lists four circulated 1909-S-VDB clips, I think one migrated to
          NGC but where are the other three??

          > Also, I believe that some of those ANACS pieces are
          > in PCGS holders, from the Auction, so they are duplicates.

          On second look, I think the PCGS '98 cent on '97-P dime was probably
          an ANACS crack-out. As for the other cross-over possibilities, I just
          had a hard time assuming that a coin like the '77 nickel on '76 cent,
          which ANACS graded 62BN, would cross to a PCGS 64RB. The NGC nickel
          on dime would have upgraded three points. Either way, we're talking
          about very rare errors with a total population in the low double-digits.

          > Yes, J. Warren was the collector who had accumulated
          > the largest collection of dual date coins.

          Since his name was all over that catalog, I figured it was okay to
          mention it. :)

          > The last Dual Date coins I am aware of are the four
          > pieces I handled of 2000-dated Cents struck on 1999
          > Struck Dimes - Dual Dates, Dual Century, Dual Millinium,
          > and one of the rare times where "next year" dual dates
          > did not have a single diget in common with each other!!

          I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the few error types that
          still occurs with the new presses, unless they have refined the feed
          mechanisms to prevent undersized planchets. Dual-denomination strikes
          would not be caught by the usual QC measures designed to capture coins
          out of spec for weight or size.


          Sean Reynolds
          CONECA #N-2090
        • Mike Diamond
          Thanks for compiling such a valuable list, Sean. I guess this particular hole in my collection will have to be filled by my 1978 Canadian cent struck over a
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 2, 2004
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            Thanks for compiling such a valuable list, Sean.

            I guess this particular hole in my collection will have to be filled
            by my 1978 Canadian cent struck over a 1977 Candian nickel. An
            assisted error, obviously.

            There's no way to tell which among the coins you listed were given an
            assist and which were purely accidental. Certainly the ones with a
            gap of several years are highly suspect. For those with a one year
            gap, there's no reason to suspect that they were helped along.
            Still, it strikes me as odd that dual year strikes are much rarer
            within the same denomination than between different denominations.
            You'd expect there to be at least parity.

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > Part Two of my post, here are additional examples I found while
            > reading through the March 2002 ANACS population report. These are
            all
            > in addition to the Jonathan Warren collection coins in my prior
            post:
            >
            > 1976-D cent on 1973 dime, ANACS 63 (a Denver cent over Philly dime,
            > tell me this one didn't have a little help...)
            > 1978 cent on 1977 dime, ANACS 63
            > 1982 LD cent on 1981-P dime, two listed, one ANACS 60, one ANACS 64
            > 1990 cent on 1989-P dime, ANACS 65
            > 1991 cent on 1990-P dime, ANACS 63
            > 1998 cent on 1997-P dime, two listed in addition to the two in the
            > Warren collection, one ANACS 64 and one ANACS 65
            > 1998 cent on 1997 cent, ANACS 64 RD (this may be the coin that
            started
            > this whole thread)
            > 1964-D nickel on damaged India 1940 1/4 Rupee, ANACS 60 (another one
            > that had a bunch of help)
            > 1981-P nickel in 1980 cent, ANACS 63RB
            > 1991-P nickel on 1990-P dime, ANACS 61 (could this be the same coin
            as
            > the one NGC garded MS64?!?)
            > 1993-P nickel on 1992 cent, ANACS 64RB
            >
            > All told, that makes twenty-four coins in the Warren collection plus
            > another 13 in the ANACS pops. The 91-P nickel on 90-P dime could
            be a
            > duplicate, if so that still makes an even three-dozen known, plus
            the
            > broadstrike linked in Lindy's second post.
            >
            > Sean Reynolds
            > CONECA #N-2090
          • Mike Diamond
            I guess you could call it a double strike with different subtypes , or double strike with mismatched subtypes or something to that effect. An awesome
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 2, 2004
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              I guess you could call it a "double strike with different subtypes",
              or "double strike with mismatched subtypes" or something to that
              effect. An awesome error, if real.

              Does the second strike have some of the expected signs of an
              authentic strike, e.g. collar scar, die flow lines, die
              scratches, "slide marks" along the slope leading to the second
              strike, etc.? I would assume there are no obvious signs of fakery,
              like toolmarks, EDM bumps, etc.

              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
              <adkinstone@e...> wrote:

              > Years ago Bill Fivaz wrote one of those "say it ain't so"
              columns
              > for coneca. It featured a 1909 VDB with non VDB off center 2nd
              strike
              > error. I thought for sure it was genuine and fired off aletter to
              > Bill. But Bill tried to convince me otherwise. Years later Bill
              sold
              > it to me with the promise I say its counterfit according to Fivaz.
              > That worked for me and I EAGERLY bought it. I really like the piece
              > and I feel its real.
              >
              > Since my purchase of it, I've noticed a couple times it had been an
              > error lot in Major Catalogue auctions past. It was never withdrawn
              and
              > it always traded hands. I paid Bill about the same ammount it
              closed
              > for last time it traded publically, like a decade earlier.
              >
              > Anyways long story short,
              >
              > if genuine,
              >
              > what error hole would it fill for me?
              >
              > Its not dual different dates but different designs for sure. Its
              > sequence is correct: VDB normal strike with non VDB dies used on
              > second 50% O/C Strike ???
              >
              > Lindy
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