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Cent "shell"?

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  • Mike Diamond
    I m not sure what is meant by a shell in this instance. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2214691644 I suspect that this is the base of a
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 31, 2003
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      I'm not sure what is meant by a "shell" in this instance.

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2214691644

      I suspect that this is the base of a late-stage obverse die cap that
      broke away from its walls and that was subsequently struck two
      additional times after breaking free.

      The other possibility is a split-before-strike planchet that was was
      struck three times, with the striations being obliterated during
      those strikes.

      The weight printed on the slab (4.6g) cannot be correct. This coin
      is obviously very thin. Probably a misprint.
    • Mike Diamond
      This specimen is also instructive in that it clearly shows that a shifted cap, cap base, or other thin, uniface, multi-struck piece of metal will leave
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 31, 2003
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        This specimen is also instructive in that it clearly shows that a
        shifted cap, cap base, or other thin, uniface, multi-struck piece of
        metal will leave normally oriented, incuse design elements in the
        planchets that it's struck into.

        Look at the reverse face of this "shell". The design elements
        produced by the final strike are incuse (LIBERTY, date), while those
        produced during earlier strikes are raised. The direction of the
        earlier design elements was reversed during subsequent strikes, from
        being raised toward the obverse die to being raised toward the
        planchet. These will have left two sets of normally oriented, incuse
        design elements in the last planchet struck through this "shell".
      • fred_weinberg
        I don t remember the coin specifically, or when it was submitted, but I believe the 4.6 g is 4.6 GRAINS. Please remember that I only have 22 characters AND
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 31, 2003
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          I don't remember the coin specifically, or when it was
          submitted, but I believe the 4.6 g is 4.6 GRAINS.

          Please remember that I only have 22 characters AND spaces
          to describe the Mint Error for PCGS tags. That places a
          great limit on how I can describe a complicated error, or
          a secondary error.

          (FYI - I weigh ALL clips, and express them as a percentage
          missing, so you can always figure out the exact weight of
          a clipped coin in a PCGS holder.)

          It looks like PCGS should have eliminated the "dash -",
          and added a "r" to the G, making it read 4.6 gr.

          These things happen on occassion.

          As far as the 1964 cent - calling it a 3 Stk Shell is
          about the only thing I can do with 22 spaces.....it is
          a shell - I just can't describe on the holder how it occured.

          Hope this info helps....
          See you all at the FUN show next week -

          Fred
          FredWeinberg.com



          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
          <mdia1@a...> wrote:
          > This specimen is also instructive in that it clearly shows that a
          > shifted cap, cap base, or other thin, uniface, multi-struck piece
          of
          > metal will leave normally oriented, incuse design elements in the
          > planchets that it's struck into.
          >
          > Look at the reverse face of this "shell". The design elements
          > produced by the final strike are incuse (LIBERTY, date), while
          those
          > produced during earlier strikes are raised. The direction of the
          > earlier design elements was reversed during subsequent strikes,
          from
          > being raised toward the obverse die to being raised toward the
          > planchet. These will have left two sets of normally oriented,
          incuse
          > design elements in the last planchet struck through this "shell".
        • Mike Diamond
          4.6 grains works out to 0.3 grams, which is just about right for this sort of error, if it s a cap bottom. They tend to range from 0.2 to 0.4 grams, in my
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 31, 2003
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            4.6 grains works out to 0.3 grams, which is just about right for this
            sort of error, if it's a cap bottom. They tend to range from 0.2 to
            0.4 grams, in my experience. Thanks for clarifying.

            Yes, the typo was replacing "gr" with "g". That's a switch that
            should have occurred to me.

            The limitation of 22 characters and spaces is admittedly a severe
            constraint on accurate description. I really don't know why PCGS
            won't let you use all that empty space. Still, the word "shell"
            conveys no meaning as regards the nature or origin of the error. It
            makes a little more sense in the context of plated or clad coins,
            where a detached layer could be construed as a "shell". Perhaps a
            better substitute would be "cap bottom, 3X stk" (18 characters +
            spaces).

            Anyway, I brought this coin up for discussion not to carp on the
            description, but because it was useful in showing what a detached cap
            bottom looks like and because it nicely demonstates the kind of coin
            that is responsible for normally oriented incuse design elements.

            Have a Happy New Year and a great time at FUN! I won't be there,
            unfortunately.

            --Mike Diamond


            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > I don't remember the coin specifically, or when it was
            > submitted, but I believe the 4.6 g is 4.6 GRAINS.
            >
            > Please remember that I only have 22 characters AND spaces
            > to describe the Mint Error for PCGS tags. That places a
            > great limit on how I can describe a complicated error, or
            > a secondary error.
            >
            > (FYI - I weigh ALL clips, and express them as a percentage
            > missing, so you can always figure out the exact weight of
            > a clipped coin in a PCGS holder.)
            >
            > It looks like PCGS should have eliminated the "dash -",
            > and added a "r" to the G, making it read 4.6 gr.
            >
            > These things happen on occassion.
            >
            > As far as the 1964 cent - calling it a 3 Stk Shell is
            > about the only thing I can do with 22 spaces.....it is
            > a shell - I just can't describe on the holder how it occured.
            >
            > Hope this info helps....
            > See you all at the FUN show next week -
            >
            > Fred
            > FredWeinberg.com
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
            > <mdia1@a...> wrote:
            > > This specimen is also instructive in that it clearly shows that a
            > > shifted cap, cap base, or other thin, uniface, multi-struck piece
            > of
            > > metal will leave normally oriented, incuse design elements in the
            > > planchets that it's struck into.
            > >
            > > Look at the reverse face of this "shell". The design elements
            > > produced by the final strike are incuse (LIBERTY, date), while
            > those
            > > produced during earlier strikes are raised. The direction of the
            > > earlier design elements was reversed during subsequent strikes,
            > from
            > > being raised toward the obverse die to being raised toward the
            > > planchet. These will have left two sets of normally oriented,
            > incuse
            > > design elements in the last planchet struck through this "shell".
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