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RE: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: 1971-D nickel struck on odd, possibly clad planchet

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  • Steve Mills
    You did it again! I was unaware of this usage. From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 16 4:11 PM
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      You did it again! I was unaware of this usage.

       

      From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Diamond
      Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:31 PM
      To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: 1971-D nickel struck on odd, possibly clad planchet

       

      ….. both soluble and insoluble……

    • Mike Diamond
      I ve placed the coin under a microscope and the coin remains a puzzle. At the surface, the copper areas have a normal color where they ve been die-struck.
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 20 1:40 PM
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        I've placed the coin under a microscope and the coin remains a puzzle. At the surface, the "copper" areas have a normal color where they've been die-struck. Below the surface the "copper" is rust-red and has a uniformly grainy texture. Such a texture is often found in improper annealing errors in areas where the surface metal has spalled off.

        The edge is uniformly brown except for some areas where there is light speckling with silvery flecks.

        I am going to crack the coin out and send it in for XRF analysis. I'm interested to see if the red, grainy areas are 100% copper as should be the case if this is clad stock.

        Wish me luck.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
        >
        > I first saw this nickel on eBay somewhere around the year 2000 when it sold for $1500:
        >
        > http://www.ebay.com/itm/400521187761
        >
        > It has always puzzled me, so much so that I bought it today for a surprisingly low price.
        >
        > The weight seems in line with clad dime stock, but its appearance is so odd as to leave that diagnosis in question. The copper-nickel surface is interrupted on the obverse, exposing rusty-red metal. The red color and a fine grainness reminds me of some improper annealing errors, but the pattern of exposure and overall general appearance of the coin is not what I associate with conventional improper annealing errors. The edge of the planchet was rolled and squeezed before the strike, generating a thin apron of metal that was struck into both faces.
        >
        > I may crack it out and submit it for XRF analysis. I'm especiallly interested to see if the exposed copper core on the edge is truly 100% copper.
        >
        > In the end, I doubt I'll get to the bottom of this mystery, but I may be able to eliminate some possibilities. I'll certainly write it up at some point for Coin World.
        >
        > I suspect some bidders stayed away because of its odd appearance. If this had been unambigous clad dime stock, it would presumably been at least as desirable as the 1987-P nickels on clad quarter stock. In my experience, most collectors like diagnostic certainty instead of impenetrable mystery.
        >
      • Mike Diamond
        Actually, pure or relatively pure copper in the interior of the coin wouldn t necessarily confirm a clad composition. In improper annealing errors the
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 20 3:35 PM
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          Actually, pure or relatively pure copper in the interior of the coin wouldn't necessarily confirm a clad composition. In improper annealing errors the constituent metals (copper and nickel) migrate and segregate out into relatively pure layers and localized deposits. While copper usually rises to the surface, there are exceptions.

          Still, if the metal content deviates significantly from 100% copper, we can surmise something else is going on.

          I hope you don't mind my habit of thinking out loud on the message board. It helps me clarify my thinking and preserve my ideas for later use.

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
          >
          > I've placed the coin under a microscope and the coin remains a puzzle. At the surface, the "copper" areas have a normal color where they've been die-struck. Below the surface the "copper" is rust-red and has a uniformly grainy texture. Such a texture is often found in improper annealing errors in areas where the surface metal has spalled off.
          >
          > The edge is uniformly brown except for some areas where there is light speckling with silvery flecks.
          >
          > I am going to crack the coin out and send it in for XRF analysis. I'm interested to see if the red, grainy areas are 100% copper as should be the case if this is clad stock.
          >
          > Wish me luck.
          >
          > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I first saw this nickel on eBay somewhere around the year 2000 when it sold for $1500:
          > >
          > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/400521187761
          > >
          > > It has always puzzled me, so much so that I bought it today for a surprisingly low price.
          > >
          > > The weight seems in line with clad dime stock, but its appearance is so odd as to leave that diagnosis in question. The copper-nickel surface is interrupted on the obverse, exposing rusty-red metal. The red color and a fine grainness reminds me of some improper annealing errors, but the pattern of exposure and overall general appearance of the coin is not what I associate with conventional improper annealing errors. The edge of the planchet was rolled and squeezed before the strike, generating a thin apron of metal that was struck into both faces.
          > >
          > > I may crack it out and submit it for XRF analysis. I'm especiallly interested to see if the exposed copper core on the edge is truly 100% copper.
          > >
          > > In the end, I doubt I'll get to the bottom of this mystery, but I may be able to eliminate some possibilities. I'll certainly write it up at some point for Coin World.
          > >
          > > I suspect some bidders stayed away because of its odd appearance. If this had been unambigous clad dime stock, it would presumably been at least as desirable as the 1987-P nickels on clad quarter stock. In my experience, most collectors like diagnostic certainty instead of impenetrable mystery.
          > >
          >
        • Mike Diamond
          I finally cracked this coin out of its NGC slab. I ve learned never to trust weights printed on slab labels. However, in this case the printed weight matches
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 28 1:53 PM
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            I finally cracked this coin out of its NGC slab. I've learned never to trust weights printed on slab labels. However, in this case the printed weight matches the actual weight. The weight on the slab is 3.2 grams and on my analytical balance it comes out to 3.18 grams.

            This matches the expected weight of a nickel struck on clad dime stock (3.19 grams). However, I suspect that the coin was originally heavier, since a considerable amount of surface metal is missing.

            It's certainly possible that the precise match-up with dime stock is purely coincidental. Still, the appearance of the coin is consistent with some sort of clad composition. Wherever the surface cladding is disrupted, you only see red, grainy metal, which is presumably copper.

            If this nickel blank was truly struck on dime stock, it certainly went through the ringer afterward. The grainy, red metal strongly suggests it was subjected to excessive heat in the annealing oven. The blank was rolled and squeezed as well. I suspect the edge damage followed upon the annealing damage, because in many places the thin apron generated by the squeezing covers over the exposed red metal.

            It's also possible that the original blank was wider than a nickel blank. Despite being rolled and squeezed so that considerable metal was displaced from the edge, the coin shows collar contact all around. It's unexpected for a blank squeezed to a smaller-than-normal diameter to fully expand afterward when struck. However, it's not impossible, given that the strike was strong.

            I still plan on sending the coin to John Lorenzo for x-ray flourescence analysis of the nickel-colored and copper-colored areas.

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
            >
            > I first saw this nickel on eBay somewhere around the year 2000 when it sold for $1500:
            >
            > http://www.ebay.com/itm/400521187761
            >
            > It has always puzzled me, so much so that I bought it today for a surprisingly low price.
            >
            > The weight seems in line with clad dime stock, but its appearance is so odd as to leave that diagnosis in question. The copper-nickel surface is interrupted on the obverse, exposing rusty-red metal. The red color and a fine grainness reminds me of some improper annealing errors, but the pattern of exposure and overall general appearance of the coin is not what I associate with conventional improper annealing errors. The edge of the planchet was rolled and squeezed before the strike, generating a thin apron of metal that was struck into both faces.
            >
            > I may crack it out and submit it for XRF analysis. I'm especiallly interested to see if the exposed copper core on the edge is truly 100% copper.
            >
            > In the end, I doubt I'll get to the bottom of this mystery, but I may be able to eliminate some possibilities. I'll certainly write it up at some point for Coin World.
            >
            > I suspect some bidders stayed away because of its odd appearance. If this had been unambigous clad dime stock, it would presumably been at least as desirable as the 1987-P nickels on clad quarter stock. In my experience, most collectors like diagnostic certainty instead of impenetrable mystery.
            >
          • Mike Diamond
            As I mentioned in a previous post, none of the copper-colored edge is hidden by cladding dragged over from the bottom face of the blank. The copper-colored
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 28 2:38 PM
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              As I mentioned in a previous post, none of the copper-colored edge is hidden by cladding dragged over from the bottom face of the blank. The copper-colored edge does have flecks of nickel-colored metal.

              This appearance is easily attributed to the rolling and squeezing the blank was subjected to. When ordinary dimes are rolled and squeezed you generally end up with an all-copper edge.

              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
              >
              > I finally cracked this coin out of its NGC slab. I've learned never to trust weights printed on slab labels. However, in this case the printed weight matches the actual weight. The weight on the slab is 3.2 grams and on my analytical balance it comes out to 3.18 grams.
              >
              > This matches the expected weight of a nickel struck on clad dime stock (3.19 grams). However, I suspect that the coin was originally heavier, since a considerable amount of surface metal is missing.
              >
              > It's certainly possible that the precise match-up with dime stock is purely coincidental. Still, the appearance of the coin is consistent with some sort of clad composition. Wherever the surface cladding is disrupted, you only see red, grainy metal, which is presumably copper.
              >
              > If this nickel blank was truly struck on dime stock, it certainly went through the ringer afterward. The grainy, red metal strongly suggests it was subjected to excessive heat in the annealing oven. The blank was rolled and squeezed as well. I suspect the edge damage followed upon the annealing damage, because in many places the thin apron generated by the squeezing covers over the exposed red metal.
              >
              > It's also possible that the original blank was wider than a nickel blank. Despite being rolled and squeezed so that considerable metal was displaced from the edge, the coin shows collar contact all around. It's unexpected for a blank squeezed to a smaller-than-normal diameter to fully expand afterward when struck. However, it's not impossible, given that the strike was strong.
              >
              > I still plan on sending the coin to John Lorenzo for x-ray flourescence analysis of the nickel-colored and copper-colored areas.
              >
              > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I first saw this nickel on eBay somewhere around the year 2000 when it sold for $1500:
              > >
              > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/400521187761
              > >
              > > It has always puzzled me, so much so that I bought it today for a surprisingly low price.
              > >
              > > The weight seems in line with clad dime stock, but its appearance is so odd as to leave that diagnosis in question. The copper-nickel surface is interrupted on the obverse, exposing rusty-red metal. The red color and a fine grainness reminds me of some improper annealing errors, but the pattern of exposure and overall general appearance of the coin is not what I associate with conventional improper annealing errors. The edge of the planchet was rolled and squeezed before the strike, generating a thin apron of metal that was struck into both faces.
              > >
              > > I may crack it out and submit it for XRF analysis. I'm especiallly interested to see if the exposed copper core on the edge is truly 100% copper.
              > >
              > > In the end, I doubt I'll get to the bottom of this mystery, but I may be able to eliminate some possibilities. I'll certainly write it up at some point for Coin World.
              > >
              > > I suspect some bidders stayed away because of its odd appearance. If this had been unambigous clad dime stock, it would presumably been at least as desirable as the 1987-P nickels on clad quarter stock. In my experience, most collectors like diagnostic certainty instead of impenetrable mystery.
              > >
              >
            • dermestid
              The column devoted to this coin is in this week s Coin World. I ll let you know if and when the public domain version is released. ... I finally cracked this
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 9, 2013
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                 The column devoted to this coin is in this week's Coin World.  I'll let you know if and when the public domain version is released.



                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, <errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                I finally cracked this coin out of its NGC slab. I've learned never to trust weights printed on slab labels. However, in this case the printed weight matches the actual weight. The weight on the slab is 3.2 grams and on my analytical balance it comes out to 3.18 grams.

                This matches the expected weight of a nickel struck on clad dime stock (3.19 grams). However, I suspect that the coin was originally heavier, since a considerable amount of surface metal is missing.

                It's certainly possible that the precise match-up with dime stock is purely coincidental. Still, the appearance of the coin is consistent with some sort of clad composition. Wherever the surface cladding is disrupted, you only see red, grainy metal, which is presumably copper.

                If this nickel blank was truly struck on dime stock, it certainly went through the ringer afterward. The grainy, red metal strongly suggests it was subjected to excessive heat in the annealing oven. The blank was rolled and squeezed as well. I suspect the edge damage followed upon the annealing damage, because in many places the thin apron generated by the squeezing covers over the exposed red metal.

                It's also possible that the original blank was wider than a nickel blank. Despite being rolled and squeezed so that considerable metal was displaced from the edge, the coin shows collar contact all around. It's unexpected for a blank squeezed to a smaller-than-normal diameter to fully expand afterward when struck. However, it's not impossible, given that the strike was strong.

                I still plan on sending the coin to John Lorenzo for x-ray flourescence analysis of the nickel-colored and copper-colored areas.

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
                >
                > I first saw this nickel on eBay somewhere around the year 2000 when it sold for $1500:
                >
                > http://www.ebay.com/itm/400521187761
                >
                > It has always puzzled me, so much so that I bought it today for a surprisingly low price.
                >
                > The weight seems in line with clad dime stock, but its appearance is so odd as to leave that diagnosis in question. The copper-nickel surface is interrupted on the obverse, exposing rusty-red metal. The red color and a fine grainness reminds me of some improper annealing errors, but the pattern of exposure and overall general appearance of the coin is not what I associate with conventional improper annealing errors. The edge of the planchet was rolled and squeezed before the strike, generating a thin apron of metal that was struck into both faces.
                >
                > I may crack it out and submit it for XRF analysis. I'm especiallly interested to see if the exposed copper core on the edge is truly 100% copper.
                >
                > In the end, I doubt I'll get to the bottom of this mystery, but I may be able to eliminate some possibilities. I'll certainly write it up at some point for Coin World.
                >
                > I suspect some bidders stayed away because of its odd appearance. If this had been unambigous clad dime stock, it would presumably been at least as desirable as the 1987-P nickels on clad quarter stock. In my experience, most collectors like diagnostic certainty instead of impenetrable mystery.
                >
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