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Re: Quarter struck off-center on 80% silver, straight-clipped planchet

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  • Mike Diamond
    Okay, I tried something else. I tilted the slab so I could see the unstruck corner in cross-section while simultaneously flicking my gaze back and forth
    Message 1 of 33 , Mar 29, 2013
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      Okay, I tried something else. I tilted the slab so I could see the unstruck corner in cross-section while simultaneously flicking my gaze back and forth between the coin and a caliper first adjusted to 1.75mm and then to 2.15mm. There's no longer any doubt in my mind that the unstruck corner matches or nearly matches the thickness of quarter stock.

      So it would appear that the last scenario I presented is the most likely one. So how would one even classify this error? Wrong stock rolled to the wrong thickness? Wrong stock rolled to the right thickness? I guess it would simply be 1970-D silver-clad half dollar stock rolled to quarter dollar thickness and then sent through a quarter blanking press and then struck as a quarter. So is it still a wrong stock error? Oy, my head hurts.

      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
      >
      > If the unstruck northern corner of this coin does eventually prove to be of quarter thickness, then there's another possibility. It might be that back in 1970 some silver-clad half dollar strip was rolled to quarter thickness, placed into storage with normal quarter stock, and then removed from inventory the next year, whereupon it was fed through a quarter blanking press. This scenario doesn't require as many egregious screw-ups. There already is a well-known 1971-D half dollar struck on quarter stock, so such mishaps were occurring around this time. Almost all wrong stock errors come from the Denver Mint (the 1987-P nickel on quarter stock and a 1979(P) quarter on dime stock are two of the rare exceptions).
      >
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      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
      > >
      > > The U.S. Mint website lists the thickness of a half dollar as 2.15mm and the thickness of a quarter as 1.75mm. I presume these measurements pertain to the thickness of a blank. I don't think it's possible for me to accurately eyeball a difference of .35mm through the NGC slab. There's a possibility that what we have is silver-clad half dollar stock rolled to quarter dollar thickness and then sent through a quarter blanking press. That's a more complicated scenario. It seems unlikely that existing half dollar strip would be sent back through the rolling mill. If someone was observant enough to notice that the stock was too thick, then they most likely would have noticed the improper composition. Still, I can't rule this out.
      > >
      > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I now have the coin in hand and I need to modify my original conclusion. This coin was NOT struck on unreduced 80% silver cladding. It was struck on coin-thickness, silver-clad half dollar stock left over from the striking of 1970-D half dollars. The unstruck corners of the coin are quite thick, certainly thicker than that of quarter stock. I would guess they approximate the thickness of half dollar stock. Equally important is the fact that I can clearly see a grayish core flanked by two bright, silvery clad layers. That core is presumably composed of 79% copper and 21% silver. The appearance of the exposed core is typical for the silver-clad half dollar struck between 1965 and 1970.
      > > >
      > > > So the scenario that explains this coin is simpler but no less satisfying than the one I originally came up with. It's an off-metal, transitional, wrong stock, cross-denominational planchet error. Apart from the transitional aspect, if falls into the same category as the 1987-P nickels struck on clad quarter stock and the dateless nickel struck off-center on clad quarter stock.
      > > >
      > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > At great cost I came away with this remarkable specimen:
      > > > >
      > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390559862509
      > > > >
      > > > > I do believe I've got it figured out. An 80% silver / 20% copper alloy is what you find on silver-clad half dollars produced from 1965-1970. I suspect this planchet is derived from a coil of unreduced cladding left over from the striking of 1970-D half dollars. In other words, this cladding never went through the bonding mill and was never reduced to coin thickness in the process of rolling the composite strip.
      > > > >
      > > > > Since it has a straight clip, it's probably from the leading edge of that strip. Probably a mint technician mistook the strip for quarter strip and sent it a little ways through the blanking press before realizing the mistake.
      > > > >
      > > > > If my construction of events is correct, this coin fills a lot of holes. It could be described as an off-metal, transitional, wrong stock, solid clad, cross-denominational error. It's similar in origin to Jon Sullivan's nickel struck off-center on a straight-clipped planchet punched out of quarter stock. But this one fills even more holes. The off-center strike is a bonus.
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    • mrlindy2000
      I just found this US Mint made in US Mint packaging 1974 Panama Proof Set, seller states all coins are base metal except the Siver Dollar Type Un Balboa:
      Message 33 of 33 , Mar 31, 2013
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        I just found this US Mint made in US Mint packaging 1974 Panama Proof Set, seller states all coins are "base metal" except the Siver Dollar Type Un Balboa:

        http://www.ebay.com/itm/220994302757


        Glad to help,

        Lindy

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Since the Standard Catalog of World coins agrees with your account and observations, I'm going to ignore Mirsky on this. I will modify my CW column accordingly. Thanks again.
        >
        > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > >
        > > It's certainly possible that Mirsky's Excel table (or the source he consulted) has a mistake.
        > >
        > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000" <adkinstone@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Cool, I'll look into Mirsky's Book.
        > > >
        > > > My Proof 1974 Medio Balboa is not 40% silver looking at the edge.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for thye shopping tip !
        > > >
        > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > According to Gregory Mirsky's table of foreign coins produced by the U.S. Mint, proof silver-clad 1/2 balboas were minted through 1975. Mirsky incorporates data from the book you cite, but also uses other sources.
        > > > >
        > > > > 2,150,000 1970-D half dollars were minted versus 294,000 1971(S) 1/2 balboas. Therefore, using simply numerical criteria, the 1971-D silver-clad half dollar would more likely be a transitional error. But when you're dealing with such a tiny sample, these probabilities don't mean much.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000" <adkinstone@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I think 1972 was last year of 40% Silver Medio Balboa. 73 & later is copper nickel like our 50c. Not 100% certain as I don't own a 1973 Panama Proof Set to double check. I've got all the other San Fransico made sets from 1966 foward, but not the 73.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Considering how few 70D 50c were made for Mint Sets only I'd guess 71D 40% 50c are most likely a Wrong Country Strike. The 77D 40% 50c I'd guess is transitional. 1976 40% 50c were srtuck in 75 and 76. 1977 is one year later.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Lindy
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Likewise, there are a number of reported 1971-D and 1977-D half dollars struck on silver-clad planchets. The 1971-D half dollars could be transitional errors (struck on leftover 1970-D planchets) or they could represent planchets punched out of contemporary 1/2 balboa stock. In that case they could be considered off-metal, foreign stock errors.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Since the 1977-D silver-clad half dollars were produced two years after the U.S. Mint ended its production of 1/2 balboas, it's highly unlikely that they represent off-metal, foreign stock errors. Most folks believe they were struck on planchets left over from the previous year's production of bicenntenial (1976-S) silver clad half dollars.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000" <adkinstone@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Kinda reminds me of those Ike Dollar 1974D 40% silver strikes, the Denver Mint should have had no 40% silver $ blanks yet there is several of these odd off metals in existence.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000" <adkinstone@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Yes, 71 & 72 MedioBalboas were San Fransico struck, but who rolled the coils ?
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > True, and thank you for that somewhat sobering bit of information. It's important to note, however that the 1/2 balboa coins you speak of were only produced in the San Franscisco Mint. So it's still more likely, in my opinion, that this 1971-D quarter was struck on silver-clad half dollar stock rolled to quarter dollar thickness.
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        > > > > > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000" <adkinstone@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > The US Mint continued striking 40% silver halves for Panama's Medio Balboa thru 1972. Look in your copy of Domestic and Foreign Coins Manufactured by Mints of the United States 1793-1980, page 130.
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