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Re: Real or fake?

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  • Mike Diamond
    Hopefully I ll be able to find some common die markers shared by the first strike and the larger of the two off-center strikes. But if I don t, it won t
    Message 1 of 33 , Mar 7, 2013
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      Hopefully I'll be able to find some common die markers shared by the first strike and the larger of the two off-center strikes. But if I don't, it won't necessarily mean the second strike is a fake. If this was a dual press, the second strike could have been delivered by the adjacent die pair.

      Here's hopin' this isn't another "Spadone coin".

      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, innff@... wrote:
      >
      > From the appearance of the coin in the pictures, I think that you have a
      > winner.
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 3/7/2013 9:37:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      > mdia1@... writes:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I'm usually quite leery of double strikes from the early 1950s. There are
      > many high-quality counterfeit second strikes from that period.
      >
      > Nevertheless, I think this triple strike has a chance of being genuine:
      >
      > _http://www.ebay.com/itm/290871288867_
      > (http://www.ebay.com/itm/290871288867)
      >
      > Both off-center strikes are quite weak. That's neither a point against or
      > in favor of authenticity. Weak, off-center second strikes are well-known,
      > if rare phenomenon. But you also encounter them in the context of
      > counterfeit second strikes.
      >
      > It's the tiny off-center strike that I find intriguing. Counterfeit
      > strikes usually cover a larger area. There's no obvious reason why they should
      > have added a tiny extra strike.
      >
      > This could be a weak saddle strike with a head-to-base orientation. Saddle
      > strikes go back as far as 1948 or 1949.
      >
      > Anyway, I submitted a modest bid and was mildly surprised when I came away
      > with it. I suspect many stayed away for the same suspicions I voiced. I'll
      > let you know what I find out when I place it under my microscope. If it
      > turns out to be a stinker, it wouldn't be the first one I've fallen for.
      >
    • Mike Diamond
      Fred, if you re going to the Central States show in Schaumberg and plan on staying until Saturday (the only day I can make it), I ll bring it along and show it
      Message 33 of 33 , Mar 12, 2013
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        Fred, if you're going to the Central States show in Schaumberg and plan on staying until Saturday (the only day I can make it), I'll bring it along and show it to you.

        I'm not totally convinced it's genuine, but mere unease is not a sufficient basis for a refund request. So I'll keep it and eat the loss if it turns out to be bogus.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
        >
        > As far as I can tell, the D-mintmark is in the same position relative to both 9s. It does seem a bit closer to the tail of the 5 on the second strike, but the copper may have been "mushed" here as it has been elsewhere on this EF coin.
        >
        > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Mike,
        > >
        > > To first answer your question, no I don't recall seeing
        > > flow lines for the NG Spadone coins - although most of
        > > the 1964/64 Counterfeit silver coins do have flow lines,
        > > but they are generally too 'extended'.
        > >
        > > There's something about this piece that just doesn't look
        > > right, after viewing the scans as best I can.
        > >
        > > Question: is it me, or just an optical illusion that the
        > > Mintmark location is different on each of the strikes?
        > >
        > > Can you check the MM on the coin, and see if they are
        > > aligned under the '9' the same? They look like different
        > > position to me, from what I can see.
        > >
        > > Fred
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Although it was implied in my earlier post, I should say explicitly that this presumed saddle strike has the head-to-base orientation seen in some other saddle strikes of this period. I would think that's another indicator of authenticity.
        > > >
        > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Up close this has proven to be a difficult call. The coin is more worn than I anticipated, and this has undoubtedly obscured some essential clues.
        > > > >
        > > > > Both obverse strikes show clear patterns of die flow lines. The strength and direction of the flow lines seem almost identical. I can't say they're identical in every respect because some of the microscopic details don't seem to match. However, some of these differences may be due to wear and slight pitting of the coin (environmental damage). It's hard to imagine that a counterfeit die would nearly match the original strike in its pattern of flow lines.
        > > > >
        > > > > The small off-center strike is die-struck on both faces. The T of TRUST seems to have a small die chip beneath the right half of the crossbar. But again, this could be damage from circulation.
        > > > >
        > > > > The spacing between the two strikes seems similar to saddle strikes of the era.
        > > > >
        > > > > In the end, I can't identify any fatal indicators of fakery. So I'll keep it and file it away as an early, weak saddle/triple strike.
        > > > >
        > > > > Fred, in your experience handling "Spadone coins" have you encountered any examples of worn counterfeit dies with distinct die flow lines?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, innff@ wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > From the appearance of the coin in the pictures, I think that you have a
        > > > > > winner.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > In a message dated 3/7/2013 9:37:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        > > > > > mdia1@ writes:
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I'm usually quite leery of double strikes from the early 1950s. There are
        > > > > > many high-quality counterfeit second strikes from that period.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Nevertheless, I think this triple strike has a chance of being genuine:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > _http://www.ebay.com/itm/290871288867_
        > > > > > (http://www.ebay.com/itm/290871288867)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Both off-center strikes are quite weak. That's neither a point against or
        > > > > > in favor of authenticity. Weak, off-center second strikes are well-known,
        > > > > > if rare phenomenon. But you also encounter them in the context of
        > > > > > counterfeit second strikes.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > It's the tiny off-center strike that I find intriguing. Counterfeit
        > > > > > strikes usually cover a larger area. There's no obvious reason why they should
        > > > > > have added a tiny extra strike.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > This could be a weak saddle strike with a head-to-base orientation. Saddle
        > > > > > strikes go back as far as 1948 or 1949.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Anyway, I submitted a modest bid and was mildly surprised when I came away
        > > > > > with it. I suspect many stayed away for the same suspicions I voiced. I'll
        > > > > > let you know what I find out when I place it under my microscope. If it
        > > > > > turns out to be a stinker, it wouldn't be the first one I've fallen for.
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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