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Dime struck on copper core

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  • Mike Diamond
    This is only the second dime I ve encountered struck on a copper core: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556 Specifically, both clad
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 25, 2013
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      This is only the second dime I've encountered struck on a copper core:

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556

      Specifically, both clad layers separated from the core after blanking but before the strike. I have seen 2-3 quarters struck on a copper core and a 1965 half dollar struck on a copper-silver core.

      The price seemed reasonable, so I bought it. It will go nicely with my dime struck on an "all-clad" or "coreless" planchet and my dime struck on a detached clad layer. It will also be a nice companion for a full-weight 1972-D dime struck on a mostly copper planchet. But I don't know yet if the latter is genuine. I am still studying it.
    • rjrisi
      I guess u chanced it. Appears to be a missing clad layer both sides but NGC must have got it wrong. Weight says 1.3 but ?? Sent from my iPhone
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 25, 2013
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        I guess u chanced it. Appears to be a missing clad layer both sides but NGC must have got it wrong. Weight says 1.3 but ??

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:23 PM, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:

         

        This is only the second dime I've encountered struck on a copper core:

        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556

        Specifically, both clad layers separated from the core after blanking but before the strike. I have seen 2-3 quarters struck on a copper core and a 1965 half dollar struck on a copper-silver core.

        The price seemed reasonable, so I bought it. It will go nicely with my dime struck on an "all-clad" or "coreless" planchet and my dime struck on a detached clad layer. It will also be a nice companion for a full-weight 1972-D dime struck on a mostly copper planchet. But I don't know yet if the latter is genuine. I am still studying it.

      • Mike Diamond
        The expected weight for such an error is around 1.4 grams. The reported weight is close enough.
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 25, 2013
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          The expected weight for such an error is around 1.4 grams. The reported weight is close enough.

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, rjrisi@... wrote:
          >
          > I guess u chanced it. Appears to be a missing clad layer both sides but NGC must have got it wrong. Weight says 1.3 but ??
          >
          > Sent from my iPhone
          >
          > On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:23 PM, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
          >
          > > This is only the second dime I've encountered struck on a copper core:
          > >
          > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556
          > >
          > > Specifically, both clad layers separated from the core after blanking but before the strike. I have seen 2-3 quarters struck on a copper core and a 1965 half dollar struck on a copper-silver core.
          > >
          > > The price seemed reasonable, so I bought it. It will go nicely with my dime struck on an "all-clad" or "coreless" planchet and my dime struck on a detached clad layer. It will also be a nice companion for a full-weight 1972-D dime struck on a mostly copper planchet. But I don't know yet if the latter is genuine. I am still studying it.
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Mike Diamond
          Actually, the expected weight should be around 1.47 grams. Still, a reported weight of 1.3 grams is close enough to support the claim of a struck copper core.
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 25, 2013
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            Actually, the expected weight should be around 1.47 grams. Still, a reported weight of 1.3 grams is close enough to support the claim of a struck copper core. Of course, there's no way to be sure the weight printed on the label is the true weight. I've encountered quite a few wildly inaccurate weights on NGC slabs.

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
            >
            > The expected weight for such an error is around 1.4 grams. The reported weight is close enough.
            >
            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, rjrisi@ wrote:
            > >
            > > I guess u chanced it. Appears to be a missing clad layer both sides but NGC must have got it wrong. Weight says 1.3 but ??
            > >
            > > Sent from my iPhone
            > >
            > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:23 PM, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
            > >
            > > > This is only the second dime I've encountered struck on a copper core:
            > > >
            > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556
            > > >
            > > > Specifically, both clad layers separated from the core after blanking but before the strike. I have seen 2-3 quarters struck on a copper core and a 1965 half dollar struck on a copper-silver core.
            > > >
            > > > The price seemed reasonable, so I bought it. It will go nicely with my dime struck on an "all-clad" or "coreless" planchet and my dime struck on a detached clad layer. It will also be a nice companion for a full-weight 1972-D dime struck on a mostly copper planchet. But I don't know yet if the latter is genuine. I am still studying it.
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Michael Evanchik
            nice coin.now i understand youre not a big fan of slabs.when you get something like this,will you crack it out? and do you keepp the tag? a little off
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 26, 2013
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              nice coin.now i understand youre not a big fan of slabs.when you get something like this,will you crack it out? and do you keepp the tag? a little off topic,but just curious.

              From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
              To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 6:23 PM
              Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Dime struck on copper core
               
              This is only the second dime I've encountered struck on a copper core:

              http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556

              Specifically, both clad layers separated from the core after blanking but before the strike. I have seen 2-3 quarters struck on a copper core and a 1965 half dollar struck on a copper-silver core.

              The price seemed reasonable, so I bought it. It will go nicely with my dime struck on an "all-clad" or "coreless" planchet and my dime struck on a detached clad layer. It will also be a nice companion for a full-weight 1972-D dime struck on a mostly copper planchet. But I don't know yet if the latter is genuine. I am still studying it.

            • Mike Diamond
              I haven t decided whether to crack this one out. It rather depends on what I find on close examination. If there are a few tiny patches of cladding clinging
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 26, 2013
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                I haven't decided whether to crack this one out. It rather depends on what I find on close examination. If there are a few tiny patches of cladding clinging to one face (as the tag implies), the diagnosis would be amply confirmed. However, the photos don't seem to show any remnant cladding.

                When I do crack a coin out, especially a high-value coin, I do hold onto the tag.

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik wrote:
                >
                > nice coin.now i understand youre not a big fan of slabs.when you get something like this,will you crack it out? and do you keepp the tag? a little off topic,but just curious.
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Mike Diamond
                > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 6:23 PM
                > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Dime struck on copper core
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > This is only the second dime I've encountered struck on a copper core:
                >
                > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556
                >
                > Specifically, both clad layers separated from the core after blanking but before the strike. I have seen 2-3 quarters struck on a copper core and a 1965 half dollar struck on a copper-silver core.
                >
                > The price seemed reasonable, so I bought it. It will go nicely with my dime struck on an "all-clad" or "coreless" planchet and my dime struck on a detached clad layer. It will also be a nice companion for a full-weight 1972-D dime struck on a mostly copper planchet. But I don't know yet if the latter is genuine. I am still studying it.
                >
              • sean.reynolds@snet.net
                Mike, I have to admit I m a bit shocked at the price that coin fetched. I have a late 1960s dine struck on a coreles planchet, I have to dig it out and check
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 28, 2013
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                  Mike,

                  I have to admit I'm a bit shocked at the price that coin fetched. I have a late 1960s dine struck on a coreles planchet, I have to dig it out and check the weight and date for you. What would you estimate the value of a coreless dime to be?

                  Thanks,
                  Sean

                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                  >
                  > This is only the second dime I've encountered struck on a copper core:
                  >
                  > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281055959556
                  >
                  > Specifically, both clad layers separated from the core after blanking but before the strike. I have seen 2-3 quarters struck on a copper core and a 1965 half dollar struck on a copper-silver core.
                  >
                  > The price seemed reasonable, so I bought it. It will go nicely with my dime struck on an "all-clad" or "coreless" planchet and my dime struck on a detached clad layer. It will also be a nice companion for a full-weight 1972-D dime struck on a mostly copper planchet. But I don't know yet if the latter is genuine. I am still studying it.
                  >
                • Mike Diamond
                  This is the lowest price I ve seen for any dime or quarter struck on a copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering how seldom
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 28, 2013
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                    This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would think a price of $550 is reasonable.

                    Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some time back:

                    http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-solid-coreless-dime-

                    The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.

                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "sean.reynolds@..." wrote:
                    >
                    > Mike,
                    >
                    > I have to admit I'm a bit shocked at the price that coin fetched. I have a late 1960s dine struck on a coreles planchet, I have to dig it out and check the weight and date for you. What would you estimate the value of a coreless dime to be?
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Sean
                  • Mike Diamond
                    I went ahead and checked the Heritage archives. The 1997-P dime struck on an underweight, solid copper-nickel planchet sold in April 2008 for $747. Whether
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 28, 2013
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                      I went ahead and checked the Heritage archives. The 1997-P dime struck on an underweight, solid copper-nickel planchet sold in April 2008 for $747. Whether it's actually a coreless or "all-clad" dime is debatable. Read my column for the reasons.

                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                      >
                      > This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would think a price of $550 is reasonable.
                      >
                      > Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some time back:
                      >
                      > http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-solid-coreless-dime-
                      >
                      > The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.
                      >
                      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "sean.reynolds@" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Mike,
                      > >
                      > > I have to admit I'm a bit shocked at the price that coin fetched. I have a late 1960s dine struck on a coreles planchet, I have to dig it out and check the weight and date for you. What would you estimate the value of a coreless dime to be?
                      > >
                      > > Thanks,
                      > > Sean
                      >
                    • Steve Mills
                      I m not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it? http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867 From:
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 28, 2013
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                        I’m not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it?

                         

                        http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867

                         

                        From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Diamond
                        Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:45 PM
                        To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Dime struck on copper core

                         

                         

                        This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would think a price of $550 is reasonable.

                        Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some time back:

                        http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-solid-coreless-dime-

                        The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.


                      • Mike Diamond
                        Oy. $129 for the same coin I bought. That ll teach me to check Heritage s weekly and Sunday auctions. While most of the time they have nothing worthwhile,
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 28, 2013
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                          Oy. $129 for the same coin I bought. That'll teach me to check Heritage's weekly and Sunday auctions. While most of the time they have nothing worthwhile, occasionally they'll list a winner.

                          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Mills" wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
                          > Diamond
                          > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:45 PM
                          > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Dime struck on copper core
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a
                          > copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering
                          > how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would
                          > think a price of $550 is reasonable.
                          >
                          > Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your
                          > "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some
                          > time back:
                          >
                          > http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-soli
                          > d-coreless-dime-
                          >
                          > The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several
                          > times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have
                          > to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.
                          >
                        • Mike Diamond
                          On close inspection, this coin deviates significantly from the few other struck copper cores I ve seen. The surface is very friable and is flaking off in many
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 31, 2013
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                            On close inspection, this coin deviates significantly from the few other struck copper cores I've seen. The surface is very friable and is flaking off in many areas. Some of the copper flaked off before the strike and some after. This would account for the coin weighing 1.3 grams instead of the expected 1.47 grams. Where the metal flaked off after the strike, the exposed metal shows a fine grainy texture. Some of the areas where the design didn't strike up also show the same grainy texture.

                            The small piece of remnant cladding on the right side of the obverse is dark gray, instead of silvery. Both faces have small flecks of silvery or gray metal scattered about.

                            I suspect that this core was damaged or even created by improper annealing. The uniform grainy texture is a near constant feature of such errors where the surface metal has fallen away. Cladding sometimes turns black from improper annealing. The excessive temperatures may have caused the clad layers to break away.

                            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                            >
                            > Oy. $129 for the same coin I bought. That'll teach me to check Heritage's weekly and Sunday auctions. While most of the time they have nothing worthwhile, occasionally they'll list a winner.
                            >
                            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Mills" wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I'm not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                            > > [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
                            > > Diamond
                            > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:45 PM
                            > > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Dime struck on copper core
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a
                            > > copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering
                            > > how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would
                            > > think a price of $550 is reasonable.
                            > >
                            > > Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your
                            > > "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some
                            > > time back:
                            > >
                            > > http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-soli
                            > > d-coreless-dime-
                            > >
                            > > The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several
                            > > times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have
                            > > to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.
                            > >
                            >
                          • Mike Diamond
                            Perhaps this coin can help explain at least some seriously underweight, improperly annealed nickels. Perhaps in some planchets significant amounts of metal
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 31, 2013
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                              Perhaps this coin can help explain at least some seriously underweight, improperly annealed nickels. Perhaps in some planchets significant amounts of metal spall off one or both faces, leaving the characteristic grainy undermetal.

                              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                              >
                              > On close inspection, this coin deviates significantly from the few other struck copper cores I've seen. The surface is very friable and is flaking off in many areas. Some of the copper flaked off before the strike and some after. This would account for the coin weighing 1.3 grams instead of the expected 1.47 grams. Where the metal flaked off after the strike, the exposed metal shows a fine grainy texture. Some of the areas where the design didn't strike up also show the same grainy texture.
                              >
                              > The small piece of remnant cladding on the right side of the obverse is dark gray, instead of silvery. Both faces have small flecks of silvery or gray metal scattered about.
                              >
                              > I suspect that this core was damaged or even created by improper annealing. The uniform grainy texture is a near constant feature of such errors where the surface metal has fallen away. Cladding sometimes turns black from improper annealing. The excessive temperatures may have caused the clad layers to break away.
                              >
                              > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Oy. $129 for the same coin I bought. That'll teach me to check Heritage's weekly and Sunday auctions. While most of the time they have nothing worthwhile, occasionally they'll list a winner.
                              > >
                              > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Mills" wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
                              > > > Diamond
                              > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:45 PM
                              > > > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Dime struck on copper core
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a
                              > > > copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering
                              > > > how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would
                              > > > think a price of $550 is reasonable.
                              > > >
                              > > > Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your
                              > > > "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some
                              > > > time back:
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-soli
                              > > > d-coreless-dime-
                              > > >
                              > > > The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several
                              > > > times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have
                              > > > to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • jylitalo
                              It is certainly interesting. Perhaps the copper core itself is responsible, since it is clearly underweight (given the previous numbers of what it should weigh
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 31, 2013
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                                It is certainly interesting.

                                Perhaps the copper core itself is responsible, since it is clearly underweight (given the previous numbers of what it should weigh without a clad layer attached to either face). For instance, the cladding could not adhere correctly to the core because the the copper core was too thin to begin with (granted not by much).

                                As you mentioned, annealing might have been just the excuse for the cladding on either face to run away in complete disgust from such a skinny core.

                                The spalling off you mention is interesting. Would enough metal have flaked off to account for the difference in expected weight (1.47 verses the reported 1.3)?

                                On a related note: How many out there knew that cladding used on US coinage was an invention by two chemists who gave their patent to the US Mint? The Mint Director at the time, Mrs. Mary Brooks, gave both individuals a special achievement award and both shared a $5000 cash award.

                                Without this invention we would be without many wonderful errors having a cladding issue!

                                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                >
                                > Perhaps this coin can help explain at least some seriously underweight, improperly annealed nickels. Perhaps in some planchets significant amounts of metal spall off one or both faces, leaving the characteristic grainy undermetal.
                                >
                                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                > >
                                > > On close inspection, this coin deviates significantly from the few other struck copper cores I've seen. The surface is very friable and is flaking off in many areas. Some of the copper flaked off before the strike and some after. This would account for the coin weighing 1.3 grams instead of the expected 1.47 grams. Where the metal flaked off after the strike, the exposed metal shows a fine grainy texture. Some of the areas where the design didn't strike up also show the same grainy texture.
                                > >
                                > > The small piece of remnant cladding on the right side of the obverse is dark gray, instead of silvery. Both faces have small flecks of silvery or gray metal scattered about.
                                > >
                                > > I suspect that this core was damaged or even created by improper annealing. The uniform grainy texture is a near constant feature of such errors where the surface metal has fallen away. Cladding sometimes turns black from improper annealing. The excessive temperatures may have caused the clad layers to break away.
                                > >
                                > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Oy. $129 for the same coin I bought. That'll teach me to check Heritage's weekly and Sunday auctions. While most of the time they have nothing worthwhile, occasionally they'll list a winner.
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Mills" wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'm not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it?
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
                                > > > > Diamond
                                > > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:45 PM
                                > > > > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Dime struck on copper core
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a
                                > > > > copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering
                                > > > > how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would
                                > > > > think a price of $550 is reasonable.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your
                                > > > > "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some
                                > > > > time back:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-soli
                                > > > > d-coreless-dime-
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several
                                > > > > times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have
                                > > > > to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • oldsubguru
                                Your end comment on cladding gave me an idea for error-ref.com. Maybe we could make a page for interesting facts related to error coins on this site? BJ In a
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 31, 2013
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                                  Your end comment on cladding gave me an idea for error-ref.com. Maybe we could make a page for interesting facts related to error coins on this site?
                                   
                                  BJ
                                   
                                  In a message dated 1/31/2013 1:52:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                                   

                                  It is certainly interesting.

                                  Perhaps the copper core itself is responsible, since it is clearly underweight (given the previous numbers of what it should weigh without a clad layer attached to either face). For instance, the cladding could not adhere correctly to the core because the the copper core was too thin to begin with (granted not by much).

                                  As you mentioned, annealing might have been just the excuse for the cladding on either face to run away in complete disgust from such a skinny core.

                                  The spalling off you mention is interesting. Would enough metal have flaked off to account for the difference in expected weight (1.47 verses the reported 1.3)?

                                  On a related note: How many out there knew that cladding used on US coinage was an invention by two chemists who gave their patent to the US Mint? The Mint Director at the time, Mrs. Mary Brooks, gave both individuals a special achievement award and both shared a $5000 cash award.

                                  Without this invention we would be without many wonderful errors having a cladding issue!

                                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps this coin can help explain at least some seriously underweight, improperly annealed nickels. Perhaps in some planchets significant amounts of metal spall off one or both faces, leaving the characteristic grainy undermetal.
                                  >
                                  > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > On close inspection, this coin deviates significantly from the few other struck copper cores I've seen. The surface is very friable and is flaking off in many areas. Some of the copper flaked off before the strike and some after. This would account for the coin weighing 1.3 grams instead of the expected 1.47 grams. Where the metal flaked off after the strike, the exposed metal shows a fine grainy texture. Some of the areas where the design didn't strike up also show the same grainy texture.
                                  > >
                                  > > The small piece of remnant cladding on the right side of the obverse is dark gray, instead of silvery. Both faces have small flecks of silvery or gray metal scattered about.
                                  > >
                                  > > I suspect that this core was damaged or even created by improper annealing. The uniform grainy texture is a near constant feature of such errors where the surface metal has fallen away. Cladding sometimes turns black from improper annealing. The excessive temperatures may have caused the clad layers to break away.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Oy. $129 for the same coin I bought. That'll teach me to check Heritage's weekly and Sunday auctions. While most of the time they have nothing worthwhile, occasionally they'll list a winner.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Mills" wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I'm not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
                                  > > > > Diamond
                                  > > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:45 PM
                                  > > > > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Dime struck on copper core
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck on a
                                  > > > > copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000. Considering
                                  > > > > how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking, I would
                                  > > > > think a price of $550 is reasonable.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications of your
                                  > > > > "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin World some
                                  > > > > time back:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-soli
                                  > > > > d-coreless-dime-
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands several
                                  > > > > times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago. You'd have
                                  > > > > to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >

                                • jylitalo
                                  That is a great idea, BJ! I ve gathered together many old Mint PR documents and kept those related to error and variety coins. I will be publishing them in
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 31, 2013
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                                    That is a great idea, BJ!

                                    I've gathered together many old Mint PR documents and kept those related to error and variety coins. I will be publishing them in full in future issues of Errorscope.

                                    For instance, the March April 2013 issue which is at the print plant now has a 2 page PR document detailing the when, where, and why mintmarks were restored to coinage. Pretty darn interesting.

                                    Jeff

                                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, innff@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Your end comment on cladding gave me an idea for error-ref.com. Maybe we
                                    > could make a page for interesting facts related to error coins on this site?
                                    >
                                    > BJ
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > In a message dated 1/31/2013 1:52:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                    > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > It is certainly interesting.
                                    >
                                    > Perhaps the copper core itself is responsible, since it is clearly
                                    > underweight (given the previous numbers of what it should weigh without a clad
                                    > layer attached to either face). For instance, the cladding could not adhere
                                    > correctly to the core because the the copper core was too thin to begin with
                                    > (granted not by much).
                                    >
                                    > As you mentioned, annealing might have been just the excuse for the
                                    > cladding on either face to run away in complete disgust from such a skinny core.
                                    >
                                    > The spalling off you mention is interesting. Would enough metal have
                                    > flaked off to account for the difference in expected weight (1.47 verses the
                                    > reported 1.3)?
                                    >
                                    > On a related note: How many out there knew that cladding used on US
                                    > coinage was an invention by two chemists who gave their patent to the US Mint?
                                    > The Mint Director at the time, Mrs. Mary Brooks, gave both individuals a
                                    > special achievement award and both shared a $5000 cash award.
                                    >
                                    > Without this invention we would be without many wonderful errors having a
                                    > cladding issue!
                                    >
                                    > --- In _errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com_
                                    > (mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com) , "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Perhaps this coin can help explain at least some seriously underweight,
                                    > improperly annealed nickels. Perhaps in some planchets significant amounts
                                    > of metal spall off one or both faces, leaving the characteristic grainy
                                    > undermetal.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In _errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com_
                                    > (mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com) , "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On close inspection, this coin deviates significantly from the few
                                    > other struck copper cores I've seen. The surface is very friable and is
                                    > flaking off in many areas. Some of the copper flaked off before the strike and
                                    > some after. This would account for the coin weighing 1.3 grams instead of the
                                    > expected 1.47 grams. Where the metal flaked off after the strike, the
                                    > exposed metal shows a fine grainy texture. Some of the areas where the design
                                    > didn't strike up also show the same grainy texture.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The small piece of remnant cladding on the right side of the obverse
                                    > is dark gray, instead of silvery. Both faces have small flecks of silvery or
                                    > gray metal scattered about.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I suspect that this core was damaged or even created by improper
                                    > annealing. The uniform grainy texture is a near constant feature of such errors
                                    > where the surface metal has fallen away. Cladding sometimes turns black
                                    > from improper annealing. The excessive temperatures may have caused the clad
                                    > layers to break away.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In _errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com_
                                    > (mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com) , "Mike Diamond" wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Oy. $129 for the same coin I bought. That'll teach me to check
                                    > Heritage's weekly and Sunday auctions. While most of the time they have nothing
                                    > worthwhile, occasionally they'll list a winner.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In _errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com_
                                    > (mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com) , "Steve Mills" wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I'm not sure if Heritage links work, but this seemed low or was it?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > _http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867_
                                    > (http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=131303&lotNo=28867)
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > From: _errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com_
                                    > (mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com)
                                    > > > > > [mailto:_errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com_
                                    > (mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Mike
                                    > > > > > Diamond
                                    > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:45 PM
                                    > > > > > To: _errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com_
                                    > (mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com)
                                    > > > > > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Dime struck on
                                    > copper core
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > This is the lowest price I've seen for any dime or quarter struck
                                    > on a
                                    > > > > > copper core. Others have ranged from $800 to well over $1000.
                                    > Considering
                                    > > > > > how seldom both clad layers fly away from the core after blanking,
                                    > I would
                                    > > > > > think a price of $550 is reasonable.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Anyway, I would be interested in seeing photos and specifications
                                    > of your
                                    > > > > > "coreless" dime. I wrote an article on the phenomenon for Coin
                                    > World some
                                    > > > > > time back:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > _http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-soli_
                                    > (http://www.coinworld.com/articles/printarticle/varying-weights-undercut-soli)
                                    > > > > > d-coreless-dime-
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > The first coreless dime mentioned in the article has changed hands
                                    > several
                                    > > > > > times. I think it appeared in a Heritage auction some years ago.
                                    > You'd have
                                    > > > > > to look at their archives to find out how much it sold for.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Mike Diamond
                                    In a normal dime, the core starts out much thicker and, once bonded to the clad layers, is further rolled to final thickness within the rolling mill. Same
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 31, 2013
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                                      In a normal dime, the core starts out much thicker and, once bonded to the clad layers, is further rolled to final thickness within the rolling mill. Same goes for the clad layers. I doubt this copper core started out abnormally thin. Given the amount of copper that spalled off the core before and after strike, I'm somewhat surpised it's not lighter.

                                      I didn't know about this particular historical tidbit about the cladding process. Thanks for sharing it with us all.

                                      Strictly from the standpoint of errors, I'm rather glad we switched from silver to clad composition. The clad coins are also much more durable.

                                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, jylitalo wrote:
                                      >
                                      > It is certainly interesting.
                                      >
                                      > Perhaps the copper core itself is responsible, since it is clearly underweight (given the previous numbers of what it should weigh without a clad layer attached to either face). For instance, the cladding could not adhere correctly to the core because the the copper core was too thin to begin with (granted not by much).
                                      >
                                      > As you mentioned, annealing might have been just the excuse for the cladding on either face to run away in complete disgust from such a skinny core.
                                      >
                                      > The spalling off you mention is interesting. Would enough metal have flaked off to account for the difference in expected weight (1.47 verses the reported 1.3)?
                                      >
                                      > On a related note: How many out there knew that cladding used on US coinage was an invention by two chemists who gave their patent to the US Mint? The Mint Director at the time, Mrs. Mary Brooks, gave both individuals a special achievement award and both shared a $5000 cash award.
                                      >
                                      > Without this invention we would be without many wonderful errors having a cladding issue!
                                    • Mike Diamond
                                      While every possible clad error is accounted for in the checklist, a separate section devoted to the history and specifics of the cladding process certainly
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jan 31, 2013
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                                        While every possible clad error is accounted for in the checklist, a separate section devoted to the history and specifics of the cladding process certainly couldn't hurt. Do keep in mind, though, that we still have many empty slots to fill in terms of checklist entries.

                                        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, innff@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Your end comment on cladding gave me an idea for error-ref.com. Maybe we
                                        > could make a page for interesting facts related to error coins on this site?
                                        >
                                        > BJ
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