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Chipped working hub?

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  • Mike Diamond
    I can t tell for sure, but the appearance is promising: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210 Chipped working hubs are very hard to
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 17, 2011
      I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210

      Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and I don't even have one on a U.S. coin.
    • innff@aol.com
      Mike, Take a look at the 1936 Lincoln cent. There are more than a few to be seen from that date. The broken hub is on the left leg of the R in LIBERTY. What
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 17, 2011
        Mike,
                Take a look at the 1936 Lincoln cent. There are more than a few to be seen from that date. The broken hub is on the left leg of the R in LIBERTY. What is neat about this broken R is that you can find coins hub twice with the broken hub and coins hubbed once with the broken R and once with a good hub. The three major DDOs for this date show hubbings once with and once without the broken hub.
         
                In this case, I would think that a broken hub may have been detected by now. This is first time that I have seen the broken column on the 2000 Lincoln cent. There is a possibility that the working hub may have produced very few working dies (like maybe one or two) before it was discovered and discarded.
         
        BJ
         
        In a message dated 7/17/2011 8:31:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mdia1@... writes:
         

        I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:

        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210

        Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and I don't even have one on a U.S. coin.

      • Mike Diamond
        You never know. I ve seen only one example of a 2000 cent with the corner of the 2 broken off as the result of a chipped hub. There are a surprising number
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 17, 2011
          You never know. I've seen only one example of a 2000 cent with the corner of the 2 broken off as the result of a chipped hub. There are a surprising number of die defects that are unique or that have a handful of known examples. Case in point is the Caesar Rodney Type II counterclash, of which only two specimens have been reported.

          I'll know more once I inspect it under a microscope.

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, innff@... wrote:
          >
          > Mike,
          > Take a look at the 1936 Lincoln cent. There are more than a few to
          > be seen from that date. The broken hub is on the left leg of the R in
          > LIBERTY. What is neat about this broken R is that you can find coins hub twice
          > with the broken hub and coins hubbed once with the broken R and once with a
          > good hub. The three major DDOs for this date show hubbings once with and
          > once without the broken hub.
          >
          > In this case, I would think that a broken hub may have been
          > detected by now. This is first time that I have seen the broken column on the
          > 2000 Lincoln cent. There is a possibility that the working hub may have
          > produced very few working dies (like maybe one or two) before it was discovered
          > and discarded.
          >
          > BJ
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 7/17/2011 8:31:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          > mdia1@... writes:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:
          >
          > _http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210_
          > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210)
          >
          > Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and I
          > don't even have one on a U.S. coin.
          >
        • Howard Spindel
          Not exactly a chipped working hub, but 1868 shield are quite common with pieces of the MASTER hub broken off. See:
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 17, 2011
            Not exactly a chipped working hub, but 1868 shield are quite common with pieces of the MASTER hub broken off.   See:

            http://www.shieldnickels.net/top20/reverseOf68.html

            For 1868 and prior years, the mint did not use working hubs - they went directly from the master hub to working dies.  So the broken letters on 1868 shield nickels always break in the same sequence shown on the above web page.

            In addition to the fully broken letters shown on the web page above, there are a few transitional dies known where there is still a thin sliver of the piece of the letter missing in the photos on the web page.

            For 1870 and later (1869 was a transition year), the mint went to the master hub/master die/working hub/working die pattern.  For 1870 and later, broken reverse letters still occur on shield nickels due to broken/chipped working hubs, but the letters don't break in a predictable pattern since new working hubs were brought on line periodically.  I have seen 1870 reverses with many (perhaps up to 10) broken letters.

            Perhaps one of these coins would satisfy your desire for a broken/chipped master/working hub on a U.S. coin?  They would not be expensive, and can often be cherrypicked.

            Howard


            At 05:31 AM 7/17/2011, Mike Diamond wrote:
             

            I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:

            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210

            Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and I don't even have one on a U.S. coin.

          • Mike Diamond
            Thanks for the education, Howard. I m mainly looking for a 20th century example. Hopefully this cent will fit the bill. As a place-holder, I ve got a nice
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 17, 2011
              Thanks for the education, Howard. I'm mainly looking for a 20th century example. Hopefully this cent will fit the bill. As a place-holder, I've got a nice Colombian 10 centavos, which is also a tripled die.

              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@...> wrote:
              >
              > Not exactly a chipped working hub, but 1868 shield are quite common
              > with pieces of the MASTER hub broken off. See:
              >
              > http://www.shieldnickels.net/top20/reverseOf68.html
              >
              > For 1868 and prior years, the mint did not use working hubs - they
              > went directly from the master hub to working dies. So the broken
              > letters on 1868 shield nickels always break in the same sequence
              > shown on the above web page.
              >
              > In addition to the fully broken letters shown on the web page above,
              > there are a few transitional dies known where there is still a thin
              > sliver of the piece of the letter missing in the photos on the web page.
              >
              > For 1870 and later (1869 was a transition year), the mint went to the
              > master hub/master die/working hub/working die pattern. For 1870 and
              > later, broken reverse letters still occur on shield nickels due to
              > broken/chipped working hubs, but the letters don't break in a
              > predictable pattern since new working hubs were brought on line
              > periodically. I have seen 1870 reverses with many (perhaps up to 10)
              > broken letters.
              >
              > Perhaps one of these coins would satisfy your desire for a
              > broken/chipped master/working hub on a U.S. coin? They would not be
              > expensive, and can often be cherrypicked.
              >
              > Howard
              >
              >
              > At 05:31 AM 7/17/2011, Mike Diamond wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:
              > >
              > ><http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210
              > >
              > >Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and
              > >I don't even have one on a U.S. coin.
              >
            • bigdcoins
              Awesome example of a chipped hub Howard., Master or working hub, that link shows a pretty good progression either way. Some error folks like to put together
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 17, 2011
                Awesome example of a chipped hub Howard., Master or working hub, that link shows a pretty good progression either way. Some error folks like to put together progressions and that link was spot on. Wonder how easy (or hard, I should say) it would be to put together a set from working hubs as well? Thanks for the info. Doug Huntley

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@...> wrote:
                >
                > Not exactly a chipped working hub, but 1868 shield are quite common
                > with pieces of the MASTER hub broken off. See:
                >
                > http://www.shieldnickels.net/top20/reverseOf68.html
                >
                > For 1868 and prior years, the mint did not use working hubs - they
                > went directly from the master hub to working dies. So the broken
                > letters on 1868 shield nickels always break in the same sequence
                > shown on the above web page.
                >
                > In addition to the fully broken letters shown on the web page above,
                > there are a few transitional dies known where there is still a thin
                > sliver of the piece of the letter missing in the photos on the web page.
                >
                > For 1870 and later (1869 was a transition year), the mint went to the
                > master hub/master die/working hub/working die pattern. For 1870 and
                > later, broken reverse letters still occur on shield nickels due to
                > broken/chipped working hubs, but the letters don't break in a
                > predictable pattern since new working hubs were brought on line
                > periodically. I have seen 1870 reverses with many (perhaps up to 10)
                > broken letters.
                >
                > Perhaps one of these coins would satisfy your desire for a
                > broken/chipped master/working hub on a U.S. coin? They would not be
                > expensive, and can often be cherrypicked.
                >
                > Howard
                >
                >
                > At 05:31 AM 7/17/2011, Mike Diamond wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:
                > >
                > ><http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210
                > >
                > >Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and
                > >I don't even have one on a U.S. coin.
                >
              • Howard Spindel
                Doug, I think how hard it is to put together a set from working hubs depends on how you define set . For shield nickels, which is all I m familiar with, you
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 17, 2011
                  Doug, I think how hard it is to put together a set from working hubs depends on how you define "set".  For shield nickels, which is all I'm familiar with, you would have multiple working hubs on which the letters break in different orders.  For a "complete" set, you would have to start by putting together (for a given year) a chart of coins showing various combinations of broken letters.  Then examine the coins which exhibit at least partially common subsets of the broken letters, but no discontinuities that would eliminate a common working hub.  Then you would have to examine other die characteristics in hopes of proving the coins came from the same die.

                  All in all, an extremely daunting task, which is why no one has attempted it.  No one has even so far attempted a catalog of shield nickels seen with broken letters 1870-1883 (though I have thought about attempting that) without worrying about what dies they came from.  So no one knows what a "complete" set of combinations of broken letters would look like.

                  When you know there's only one master hub to deal with, as in 1868, the problem is much simpler.

                  Howard

                  At 02:39 PM 7/17/2011, bigdcoins wrote:
                   

                  Awesome example of a chipped hub Howard., Master or working hub, that link shows a pretty good progression either way. Some error folks like to put together progressions and that link was spot on. Wonder how easy (or hard, I should say) it would be to put together a set from working hubs as well? Thanks for the info. Doug Huntley

                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Not exactly a chipped working hub, but 1868 shield are quite common
                  > with pieces of the MASTER hub broken off. See:
                  >
                  > http://www.shieldnickels.net/top20/reverseOf68.html
                  >
                  > For 1868 and prior years, the mint did not use working hubs - they
                  > went directly from the master hub to working dies. So the broken
                  > letters on 1868 shield nickels always break in the same sequence
                  > shown on the above web page.
                  >
                  > In addition to the fully broken letters shown on the web page above,
                  > there are a few transitional dies known where there is still a thin
                  > sliver of the piece of the letter missing in the photos on the web page.
                  >
                  > For 1870 and later (1869 was a transition year), the mint went to the
                  > master hub/master die/working hub/working die pattern. For 1870 and
                  > later, broken reverse letters still occur on shield nickels due to
                  > broken/chipped working hubs, but the letters don't break in a
                  > predictable pattern since new working hubs were brought on line
                  > periodically. I have seen 1870 reverses with many (perhaps up to 10)
                  > broken letters.
                  >
                  > Perhaps one of these coins would satisfy your desire for a
                  > broken/chipped master/working hub on a U.S. coin? They would not be
                  > expensive, and can often be cherrypicked.
                  >
                  > Howard
                  >
                  >
                  > At 05:31 AM 7/17/2011, Mike Diamond wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:
                  > >
                  > >< http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210
                  > >
                  > >Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and
                  > >I don't even have one on a U.S. coin.
                  >


                • Howard Spindel
                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302 I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike is simply a very worn
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 23, 2011
                    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302

                    I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                    is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                    me some diagnostics to prove that.

                    Thanks,
                    Howard
                  • Lee Lydston
                    I have no diagnostics but feel the same as you. Perhaps if there were more of a rim I might feel differently. _____ From:
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 23, 2011

                      I have no diagnostics but feel the same as you.

                       

                      Perhaps if there were more of a rim I “might” feel differently.

                       


                      From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com [mailto: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Howard Spindel
                      Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 10:27 PM
                      To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Die adjustment strike??

                       

                       

                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302

                      I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                      is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                      me some diagnostics to prove that.

                      Thanks,
                      Howard

                    • Mike Diamond
                      I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are: 1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other. 2. Lack of tumbling marks. 3.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011
                        I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:

                        1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                        2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                        3. Lack of proto-rim.

                        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                        >
                        > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                        > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                        > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Howard
                        >
                      • Michael Evanchik
                        what exactly is a proto rim??? ... From: Mike Diamond Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike?? To:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011
                          what exactly is a proto rim???

                          --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:

                          From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                          Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                          To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 8:52 AM

                           
                          I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:

                          1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                          2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                          3. Lack of proto-rim.

                          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                          >
                          > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                          > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                          > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Howard
                          >

                        • Mike Diamond
                          The proto-rim is the upset rim on an unstruck planchet. The proto-rim will persist in a very weak strike. A proto-rim is distinct from the design rim ,
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011
                            The "proto-rim" is the upset rim on an unstruck planchet. The proto-rim will persist in a very weak strike. A proto-rim is distinct from the "design rim", which is generated by the strike and is a feature present on the die face.

                            Simply using the term "rim" causes confusion. There are many kinds of "rims".

                            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > what exactly is a proto rim???
                            >
                            > --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                            > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                            > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 8:52 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:
                            >
                            > 1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                            > 2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                            > 3. Lack of proto-rim.
                            >
                            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                            > >
                            > > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                            > > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                            > > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                            > >
                            > > Thanks,
                            > > Howard
                            > >
                            >
                          • Lee Lydston
                            I expect that this would be the rim produced by the upset mill which is readily apparent on unstruck Type 2 blanks. _____ From:
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011

                              I expect that this would be the rim produced by the upset mill which is readily apparent on unstruck Type 2 blanks.

                               


                              From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com [mailto: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Evanchik
                              Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 12:26 PM
                              To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??

                               

                               

                              what exactly is a proto rim???

                              --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:


                              From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                              Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                              To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 8:52 AM

                               

                              I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:

                              1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                              2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                              3. Lack of proto-rim.

                              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@...> wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                              >
                              > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                              > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                              > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              > Howard
                              >

                            • Lee Lydston
                              Ooops Shoulda read all my email before replying. _____ From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com [mailto:errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com]
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011

                                Ooops Shoulda read all my email before replying.

                                 


                                From: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com [mailto: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Diamond
                                Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 1:20 PM
                                To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??

                                 

                                 

                                The "proto-rim" is the upset rim on an unstruck planchet. The proto-rim will persist in a very weak strike. A proto-rim is distinct from the "design rim", which is generated by the strike and is a feature present on the die face.

                                Simply using the term "rim" causes confusion. There are many kinds of "rims".

                                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > what exactly is a proto rim???
                                >
                                > --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                                > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                                > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 8:52 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:
                                >
                                > 1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                                > 2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                                > 3. Lack of proto-rim.
                                >
                                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                                Howard Spindel <howard@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                                > >
                                > > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                                > > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                                > > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks,
                                > > Howard
                                > >
                                >

                              • Howard Spindel
                                Thank you, Mike. Your point #1 says that a die adjustment strike should show equally weakly on both sides? Makes sense to me. Howard
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011
                                  Thank you, Mike. 

                                  Your point #1 says that a die adjustment strike should show equally weakly on both sides?  Makes sense to me.

                                  Howard

                                  At 05:52 AM 7/24/2011, Mike Diamond wrote:
                                   

                                  I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:

                                  1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                                  2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                                  3. Lack of proto-rim.

                                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                                  >
                                  > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                                  > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                                  > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Howard
                                  >

                                • Michael Evanchik
                                  ok so the proto rim is applied after the disc of metal is punched out-its from the upsetting mill? yes??? thanks for clearing that up for me mike. ... From:
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011
                                    ok so the proto rim is applied after the disc of metal is punched out-its from the upsetting mill? yes??? thanks for clearing that up for me mike.

                                    --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:

                                    From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                                    Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                                    To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 4:19 PM

                                     
                                    The "proto-rim" is the upset rim on an unstruck planchet. The proto-rim will persist in a very weak strike. A proto-rim is distinct from the "design rim", which is generated by the strike and is a feature present on the die face.

                                    Simply using the term "rim" causes confusion. There are many kinds of "rims".

                                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > what exactly is a proto rim???
                                    >
                                    > --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                                    > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                                    > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 8:52 AM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:
                                    >
                                    > 1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                                    > 2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                                    > 3. Lack of proto-rim.
                                    >
                                    > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                                    > >
                                    > > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                                    > > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                                    > > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks,
                                    > > Howard
                                    > >
                                    >

                                  • Mike Diamond
                                    Yes, the proto-rim is produced by the upsetting process, which occurs after blanking.
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jul 24, 2011
                                      Yes, the proto-rim is produced by the upsetting process, which occurs after blanking.

                                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > ok so the proto rim is applied after the disc of metal is punched out-its from the upsetting mill? yes??? thanks for clearing that up for me mike.
                                      >
                                      > --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                                      > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                                      > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 4:19 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > The "proto-rim" is the upset rim on an unstruck planchet. The proto-rim will persist in a very weak strike. A proto-rim is distinct from the "design rim", which is generated by the strike and is a feature present on the die face.
                                      >
                                      > Simply using the term "rim" causes confusion. There are many kinds of "rims".
                                      >
                                      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > what exactly is a proto rim???
                                      > >
                                      > > --- On Sun, 7/24/11, Mike Diamond <mdia1@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@>
                                      > > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Die adjustment strike??
                                      > > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 8:52 AM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >  
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I agree. The design was either worn off or ground off. Clues are:
                                      > >
                                      > > 1. Total absence of design on one face but not the other.
                                      > > 2. Lack of tumbling marks.
                                      > > 3. Lack of proto-rim.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Howard Spindel <howard@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230651244302
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I feel certain that the above coin listed as a die adjustment strike
                                      > > > is simply a very worn coin. I would appreciate if anyone can give
                                      > > > me some diagnostics to prove that.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks,
                                      > > > Howard
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Mike Diamond
                                      It turned out to be a strike-thru, as described. Oh, well. As they say, no guts, no glory.
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jul 29, 2011
                                        It turned out to be a strike-thru, as described. Oh, well. As they say, no guts, no glory.

                                        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I can't tell for sure, but the appearance is promising:
                                        >
                                        > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150630197210
                                        >
                                        > Chipped working hubs are very hard to come by in my experience, and I don't even have one on a U.S. coin.
                                        >
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