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Re: Post-strike damage in PCGS slab

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  • coolwhs
    Technically, the holder doesn t say it s a mint error, but I can see how this would be confusing. Would it be possible to propose PCGS have some label for
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 17 9:23 AM
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      Technically, the holder doesn't say it's a mint error, but I can see how this would be confusing. Would it be possible to propose PCGS have some label for post-strike damage, something like "Genuine Post-Strike Damage"?

      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
      >
      > This slab disturbs me greatly. PCGS should not have holdered it. So I assume now that any damaged coin that imitates a real error can be slabbed "genuine", where the reference of "genuine" is only to the coin itself. There has already been talk in the non-error coin field of how these genuine slabs can confuse people, now this POS shows up in an auction firms listings. Terrible.
      >
      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
      > >
      > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
      > > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
      > > > on the submission flip -
      > > >
      > > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
      > > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
      > > >
      > > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
      > > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
      > > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
      > > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
      > > > and never crossed my desk.
      > > >
      > > > Fred
      > > >
      > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
      > > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • alscoins
      PCGS slabbed the coin because it is a real quarter. There is nothing on the slab indicating the coin is a Mint error. Fred W., is it possible this coin was
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 17 9:31 AM
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        PCGS slabbed the coin because it is a real quarter. There is nothing on the slab indicating the coin is a Mint error.

        Fred W., is it possible this coin was never presented to you since nothing indicates the coin to be an error?

        Allan
        http://www.alscoins.com

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
        >
        > This slab disturbs me greatly. PCGS should not have holdered it. So I assume now that any damaged coin that imitates a real error can be slabbed "genuine", where the reference of "genuine" is only to the coin itself. There has already been talk in the non-error coin field of how these genuine slabs can confuse people, now this POS shows up in an auction firms listings. Terrible.
        >
        > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
        > >
        > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
        > > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
        > > > on the submission flip -
        > > >
        > > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
        > > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
        > > >
        > > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
        > > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
        > > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
        > > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
        > > > and never crossed my desk.
        > > >
        > > > Fred
        > > >
        > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
        > > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Travis
        Allow me to take this a step further. I have a 60% off center nickel that was enhanced by someone who cut a clip into the blank area with a saw. At first
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 17 9:51 AM
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          Allow me to take this a step further. I have a 60% off center nickel that was "enhanced" by someone who cut a "clip" into the blank area with a saw. At first glance it appears off center on a clip but the edge is clearly chopped post-mint with a saw. Imagine if this coin was in a "genuine" holder, it's a real error after all, just modified. But I imagine a host of hammered / colored / etc. etc. damaged pieces all in holders labeled "genuine". PMD coins are already a problem, PCGS is now making things even worse. Appartently Teletrade isn't doing any homework either. I hate ranting but GEEEZ.


          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "coolwhs" <jjsmithdds@...> wrote:
          >
          > Technically, the holder doesn't say it's a mint error, but I can see how this would be confusing. Would it be possible to propose PCGS have some label for post-strike damage, something like "Genuine Post-Strike Damage"?
          >
          > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@> wrote:
          > >
          > > This slab disturbs me greatly. PCGS should not have holdered it. So I assume now that any damaged coin that imitates a real error can be slabbed "genuine", where the reference of "genuine" is only to the coin itself. There has already been talk in the non-error coin field of how these genuine slabs can confuse people, now this POS shows up in an auction firms listings. Terrible.
          > >
          > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
          > > >
          > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
          > > > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
          > > > > on the submission flip -
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
          > > > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
          > > > >
          > > > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
          > > > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
          > > > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
          > > > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
          > > > > and never crossed my desk.
          > > > >
          > > > > Fred
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
          > > > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • fred_weinberg
          Hi Al - Yes, as mentioned in my original post on this, I never saw this coin. PCGS just started doing Genuine tags, so I have to assume it was done at their
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 17 10:10 AM
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            Hi Al -

            Yes, as mentioned in my original post on this, I never
            saw this coin. PCGS just started doing "Genuine" tags,
            so I have to assume it was done at their headquarters,
            as it never made it up to my office.

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, alscoins <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > PCGS slabbed the coin because it is a real quarter. There is nothing on the slab indicating the coin is a Mint error.
            >
            > Fred W., is it possible this coin was never presented to you since nothing indicates the coin to be an error?
            >
            > Allan
            > http://www.alscoins.com
            >
            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@> wrote:
            > >
            > > This slab disturbs me greatly. PCGS should not have holdered it. So I assume now that any damaged coin that imitates a real error can be slabbed "genuine", where the reference of "genuine" is only to the coin itself. There has already been talk in the non-error coin field of how these genuine slabs can confuse people, now this POS shows up in an auction firms listings. Terrible.
            > >
            > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
            > > >
            > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
            > > > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
            > > > > on the submission flip -
            > > > >
            > > > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
            > > > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
            > > > >
            > > > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
            > > > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
            > > > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
            > > > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
            > > > > and never crossed my desk.
            > > > >
            > > > > Fred
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
            > > > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Travis
            If this coin was submitted NOT under the mint error service, but just as a regular coin, PCGS has no reason to send it to Fred right? For those that don t know
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 17 10:51 AM
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              If this coin was submitted NOT under the mint error service, but just as a regular coin, PCGS has no reason to send it to Fred right?
              For those that don't know the 5th and 6th digits of the serial number, in this case 98, is the code for why it wasn't graded ( "other damage" - code chart below). These codes and holders are meant for regular non-error coins.
              These are the codes for PCGS genuine holders:

              •91 Artificially Colored
              •92 Cleaned
              •93 Planchet (Coin Blank) Flaw
              •94 Altered Surface
              •95 Scratched or Rim Dented
              •97 Environmentally Damaged
              •98 Other Damage



              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
              >
              > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
              >
              > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
              > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
              > > on the submission flip -
              > >
              > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
              > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
              > >
              > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
              > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
              > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
              > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
              > > and never crossed my desk.
              > >
              > > Fred
              > >
              > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
              > > >
              > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
              > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • alscoins
              NCS holders have been listing items for years as Genuine . No difference. Try contacting Teletrade (Insert laugh track here) to see if they will correct their
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 17 10:56 AM
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                NCS holders have been listing items for years as "Genuine". No difference. Try contacting Teletrade (Insert laugh track here) to see if they will correct their mistake.

                Bottom line: Buy the coin and not the holder!

                Allan
                http://www.alscoins.com

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
                >
                > Allow me to take this a step further. I have a 60% off center nickel that was "enhanced" by someone who cut a "clip" into the blank area with a saw. At first glance it appears off center on a clip but the edge is clearly chopped post-mint with a saw. Imagine if this coin was in a "genuine" holder, it's a real error after all, just modified. But I imagine a host of hammered / colored / etc. etc. damaged pieces all in holders labeled "genuine". PMD coins are already a problem, PCGS is now making things even worse. Appartently Teletrade isn't doing any homework either. I hate ranting but GEEEZ.
                >
                >
                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "coolwhs" <jjsmithdds@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Technically, the holder doesn't say it's a mint error, but I can see how this would be confusing. Would it be possible to propose PCGS have some label for post-strike damage, something like "Genuine Post-Strike Damage"?
                > >
                > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > This slab disturbs me greatly. PCGS should not have holdered it. So I assume now that any damaged coin that imitates a real error can be slabbed "genuine", where the reference of "genuine" is only to the coin itself. There has already been talk in the non-error coin field of how these genuine slabs can confuse people, now this POS shows up in an auction firms listings. Terrible.
                > > >
                > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
                > > > > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
                > > > > > on the submission flip -
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
                > > > > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
                > > > > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
                > > > > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
                > > > > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
                > > > > > and never crossed my desk.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Fred
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
                > > > > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Steve Mills
                Fred had this coin in an auction recently: http://tinyurl.com/yzgnpb7 and it brought to mind a confusion on my part. What are the basic diagnostics in
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 17 11:32 AM
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                  Fred had this coin in an auction recently:

                   

                  http://tinyurl.com/yzgnpb7

                   

                  and it brought to mind a confusion on my part. What are the basic diagnostics in determining a split die vs a split cap.

                   

                  Thanks for any help.

                   

                   

                  Steven A. Mills

                   

                  When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it. -- Dilbert

                • Mike Diamond
                  Fred s auction features a dime struck by a split die that was also covered by a late-stage die cap. Many split dies are associated with die caps, evidently
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 17 11:56 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Fred's auction features a dime struck by a split die that was also covered by a late-stage die cap. Many split dies are associated with die caps, evidently because the crevasse in the die face causes a newly-struck coin to stick to the die.

                    Split caps should show a zone of normal, die-struck design flanked by two blurry areas. Split caps are very uncommon, although coins struck through torn and otherwise incomplete caps are encountered with regularity.

                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Mills" <steve@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Fred had this coin in an auction recently:
                    >
                    >
                    > http://tinyurl.com/yzgnpb7
                    >
                    >
                    > and it brought to mind a confusion on my part. What are the basic
                    > diagnostics in determining a split die vs a split cap.
                    >
                    > Thanks for any help.
                    >
                    >
                    > Steven A. Mills
                    >
                    >
                    > When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it. -- Dilbert
                    >
                  • Michael Evanchik
                    sorry guys,i was under the assumption it was a minting error.if its post mint damage,i dare someone to tell what happened here.it was definately not melted or
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 17 3:31 PM
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                      sorry guys,i was under the assumption it was a minting error.if its post mint damage,i dare someone to tell what happened here.it was definately not melted or pried arart.

                      --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Travis <travisbolton543@...> wrote:

                      From: Travis <travisbolton543@...>
                      Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Post-strike damage in PCGS slab
                      To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 1:51 PM

                       
                      If this coin was submitted NOT under the mint error service, but just as a regular coin, PCGS has no reason to send it to Fred right?
                      For those that don't know the 5th and 6th digits of the serial number, in this case 98, is the code for why it wasn't graded ( "other damage" - code chart below). These codes and holders are meant for regular non-error coins.
                      These are the codes for PCGS genuine holders:

                      •91 Artificially Colored
                      •92 Cleaned
                      •93 Planchet (Coin Blank) Flaw
                      •94 Altered Surface
                      •95 Scratched or Rim Dented
                      •97 Environmentally Damaged
                      •98 Other Damage

                      --- In errorcoininformatio nexchange@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
                      >
                      > --- In errorcoininformatio nexchange@ yahoogroups. com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
                      > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
                      > > on the submission flip -
                      > >
                      > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
                      > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
                      > >
                      > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
                      > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
                      > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
                      > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
                      > > and never crossed my desk.
                      > >
                      > > Fred
                      > >
                      > > --- In errorcoininformatio nexchange@ yahoogroups. com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In errorcoininformatio nexchange@ yahoogroups. com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@ > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
                      > > > > http://teletrade. com/coins/ lot.asp?auction= 2814&lot= 3026
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >


                    • Mike Diamond
                      It would be difficult to say what exactly happened to this coin. But it s really not necessary. It is sufficient to show that the defect could not have been
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 17 5:23 PM
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                        It would be difficult to say what exactly happened to this coin. But it's really not necessary. It is sufficient to show that the defect could not have been produced in a coinage press or any prior step in the minting process. In this case, the copper lump stands above the design and even curls over it. That clearly demonstrates it is a case of post-strike damage.

                        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > sorry guys,i was under the assumption it was a minting error.if its post mint damage,i dare someone to tell what happened here.it was definately not melted or pried apart.
                      • Michael Evanchik
                        like i said,i do have one and have looked at it for hours.the coin is struck even where it curls over.i am assuming it was done inside the mint before leaving
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 17 5:41 PM
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                          like i said,i do have one and have looked at it for hours.the coin is struck even where it curls over.i am assuming it was done inside the mint before leaving because of what al had said.my question is still how?if something happened to freshly minted coins before leaving the mint,would that be considered an error?if it did happen at mint,and what happened was unintentional,and had the mint known about them,they would have destroted them because they were erred,no?so why wouldnt it be a mint error?kinda like getting a proof set with 2 nj quarters,thats not an error.anyway,it does still bother me as to what happened.it looks like something that could have been done with heat,yet theres isnt the slightest disruption of luster or coloring of any kind.regardless,i do have one,and if anyone is interested in examining it,i would be more then happy to let anyone borrow it for study.

                          --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:

                          From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                          Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Post-strike damage in PCGS slab
                          To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 8:23 PM

                           
                          It would be difficult to say what exactly happened to this coin. But it's really not necessary. It is sufficient to show that the defect could not have been produced in a coinage press or any prior step in the minting process. In this case, the copper lump stands above the design and even curls over it. That clearly demonstrates it is a case of post-strike damage.

                          --- In errorcoininformatio nexchange@ yahoogroups. com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > sorry guys,i was under the assumption it was a minting error.if its post mint damage,i dare someone to tell what happened here.it was definately not melted or pried apart.


                          __________________________________________________
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                        • Mike Diamond
                          Post-strike damage is post-strike damage, whether it occurs inside or outside the Mint. Often it s impossible to say where the damage occurred. Post-strike
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 17 7:31 PM
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                            Post-strike damage is post-strike damage, whether it occurs inside or outside the Mint. Often it's impossible to say where the damage occurred. Post-strike mint damage is not a minting error because developed after the minting process concluded.

                            Of course, people can collect whatever they want.

                            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > like i said,i do have one and have looked at it for hours.the coin is struck even where it curls over.i am assuming it was done inside the mint before leaving because of what al had said.my question is still how?if something happened to freshly minted coins before leaving the mint,would that be considered an error?if it did happen at mint,and what happened was unintentional,and had the mint known about them,they would have destroted them because they were erred,no?so why wouldnt it be a mint error?kinda like getting a proof set with 2 nj quarters,thats not an error.anyway,it does still bother me as to what happened.it looks like something that could have been done with heat,yet theres isnt the slightest disruption of luster or coloring of any kind.regardless,i do have one,and if anyone is interested in examining it,i would be more then happy to let anyone borrow it for study.
                            >
                            > --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Mike Diamond <mdia1@...>
                            > Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Re: Post-strike damage in PCGS slab
                            > To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 8:23 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > It would be difficult to say what exactly happened to this coin. But it's really not necessary. It is sufficient to show that the defect could not have been produced in a coinage press or any prior step in the minting process. In this case, the copper lump stands above the design and even curls over it. That clearly demonstrates it is a case of post-strike damage.
                            >
                            > --- In errorcoininformatio nexchange@ yahoogroups. com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@ ...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > sorry guys,i was under the assumption it was a minting error.if its post mint damage,i dare someone to tell what happened here.it was definately not melted or pried apart.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                            >
                          • bucky__1
                            Really sorry I missed this auction. I have an unexplainable affinity for this error type and the last one of these I saw at a show was priced at 3 times this
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 18 5:15 AM
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                              Really sorry I missed this auction. I have an unexplainable affinity for this error type and the last one of these I saw at a show was priced at 3 times this unslabbed.

                              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Fred's auction features a dime struck by a split die that was also covered by a late-stage die cap. Many split dies are associated with die caps, evidently because the crevasse in the die face causes a newly-struck coin to stick to the die.
                              >
                              > Split caps should show a zone of normal, die-struck design flanked by two blurry areas. Split caps are very uncommon, although coins struck through torn and otherwise incomplete caps are encountered with regularity.
                              >
                            • coolwhs
                              I thought I d post this since it s been discussed before, but the PCGS graded post-strike damaged coin is on eBay instead of Teletrade, and actually has bids
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 3, 2010
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                                I thought I'd post this since it's been discussed before, but the PCGS graded post-strike damaged coin is on eBay instead of Teletrade, and actually has bids of $61 right now.

                                http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260655533594



                                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > If this coin was submitted NOT under the mint error service, but just as a regular coin, PCGS has no reason to send it to Fred right?
                                > For those that don't know the 5th and 6th digits of the serial number, in this case 98, is the code for why it wasn't graded ( "other damage" - code chart below). These codes and holders are meant for regular non-error coins.
                                > These are the codes for PCGS genuine holders:
                                >
                                > •91 Artificially Colored
                                > •92 Cleaned
                                > •93 Planchet (Coin Blank) Flaw
                                > •94 Altered Surface
                                > •95 Scratched or Rim Dented
                                > •97 Environmentally Damaged
                                > •98 Other Damage
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
                                > >
                                > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
                                > > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
                                > > > on the submission flip -
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
                                > > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
                                > > >
                                > > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
                                > > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
                                > > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
                                > > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
                                > > > and never crossed my desk.
                                > > >
                                > > > Fred
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
                                > > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Michael Evanchik
                                just a quick side note to this coin too.in one of my original posts,i said i got it from als coins.that is incorrect.i got it from rich errors(rich schemmer i
                                Message 15 of 24 , Sep 3, 2010
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                                  just a quick side note to this coin too.in one of my original posts,i said i got it from als coins.that is incorrect.i got it from rich errors(rich schemmer i beleive) and he also has another up right now.its a bit different,but from the same group.i know its post strike damage,but i still consider it an error as rich swears the source never sold him a bogus error and his source said they came right out of bags directly from the mint.also its an odd post strike damage as in nobody can figure out what happened,it definately looks melted,but there are absolutely no signs of any other heat damage whatsoever.interesting to say the least.

                                  --- On Fri, 9/3/10, coolwhs <jjsmithdds@...> wrote:

                                  From: coolwhs <jjsmithdds@...>
                                  Subject: [Error Coin Information Exchange] Post-strike damage in PCGS slab on eBay ending today
                                  To: errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 6:01 PM

                                   
                                  I thought I'd post this since it's been discussed before, but the PCGS graded post-strike damaged coin is on eBay instead of Teletrade, and actually has bids of $61 right now.

                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260655533594

                                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis" <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > If this coin was submitted NOT under the mint error service, but just as a regular coin, PCGS has no reason to send it to Fred right?
                                  > For those that don't know the 5th and 6th digits of the serial number, in this case 98, is the code for why it wasn't graded ( "other damage" - code chart below). These codes and holders are meant for regular non-error coins.
                                  > These are the codes for PCGS genuine holders:
                                  >
                                  > •91 Artificially Colored
                                  > •92 Cleaned
                                  > •93 Planchet (Coin Blank) Flaw
                                  > •94 Altered Surface
                                  > •95 Scratched or Rim Dented
                                  > •97 Environmentally Damaged
                                  > •98 Other Damage
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I figured as much, Fred. It's too bad that PCGS funnels some errors and damaged coins to people who don't know much. That can damage your reputation among people who assume you handle ALL of the errors. It also give PCGS a black mark.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I think I would have remembered that particular coin; and
                                  > > > it would have received one of my 'altered/damaged' stickers
                                  > > > on the submission flip -
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I'm very familiar with this type of 'helped' peeled clad
                                  > > > layer, and would have noted it as such.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Because PCGS just started doing their 'Genuine' tags, and
                                  > > > the fact that I don't recall seeing this coin (can't always
                                  > > > remember every piece, of course, especially if it's years past),
                                  > > > I'm fairly certain that it was certified as 'genuine' In-House,
                                  > > > and never crossed my desk.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Fred
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond" <mdia1@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It's not an error. It's post-strike damage. It may have occurred inside the Mint but it's still post-strike damage. I don't know why PCGS slabbed it as "genuine". I suppose you could consider it a genuine example of post-strike damage, but you could extend that to any form of post-strike damage. Or maybe they meant that the quarter was genuine. Who knows? Maybe Fred can enlighten us.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Michael Evanchik <ivan0000013@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > if you look at auction 2814,lot 3026 youll also see an interesting item.its a quarter with a genuine error that nobody seems to know what happened.these were sold by als coins(i have one)looks like it melted but its not.you have to see it.i asked al about it.he said he got them from someone thats been selling him errors for 20 years and never gave him one bogus error.but he even has no idea how it happened.heres a link.
                                  > > > > > http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2814&lot=3026
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >


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