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Re: Unusually strong upset produces distinctive weak strike

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  • Jeff
    I actually went back and read the posts from a few years back when you got the CT quarter. Although it was noted that the rim height was not out of the
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 30, 2007
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      I actually went back and read the posts from a few years back when you
      got the CT quarter. Although it was noted that the rim height was not
      out of the ordinary, I am still curious how the design was struck on
      both faces and contained in the center, but not near the rim itself.

      If I understand everything, the design is absent (other than the outer
      rim area), because the rim itself is excessively high (PA Quarter).

      That would make sense then, along with the reduction of die convexity
      you mentioned.

      (I'd read some articles recently about Peace Dollars, and the story
      behind flattening out the striking dies which had a great amount of
      convexity. Evidently, the old timer in charge took the working dies
      and pounded them down himself with some heavy gauge sheet metal, and
      was just following orders. The fat cat "politicians" did not like the
      "high relief" design of the first year and stepped in to change things.)


      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
      <jylitalo@...> wrote:
      >
      > I wonder then about your weakly struck Connecticut quarter.
      >
      > Does the opposite apply, meaning that there was no proto-rim as
      > opposed to the high proto rim on the PA Quarter? Could it be too that
      > the dies were more convex on the Connecticut quarter (or was the
      > planchet actually thinner than normal)?
      >
      > Both quarters are definitely a great pair together
      >
      >
      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
      > <mdia1@> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > It'll make a nice complement to a Connecticut quarter I have that
      > > shows an equally weak strike, but one in which the central design
      > > elements are the only ones visible, along with a weak design rim and
      > > no reeding whatsoever. It's in the "weak strikes" album, along with
      > > some other weakly struck state quarters that present a more
      > > conventional appearance.
      > >
      >
    • Mike Diamond
      The Connecticut quarter presents a typical appearance for a weakly struck state quarter. There is evidently still a little bit of die convexity built into the
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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        The Connecticut quarter presents a typical appearance for a weakly
        struck state quarter. There is evidently still a little bit of die
        convexity built into the design. You'll see the same general
        appearance in the Vermont weak strikes posted by our long-absent
        friend Terry. The amount of upset in the planchet that the CT
        quarter was struck on appears to have been normal. That's why you've
        got a weak design rim and even the tops of some of the letters on the
        reverse. You don't see any design rim in older (pre-1990) quarters
        that show this amount of weakness, as die convexity was greater back
        then.

        I would like to see another Pennsylvania weak strike as profound as
        the one I purchased, to test your hypothesis that die convexity
        continues to change through the state quarter series. Judging from
        the many weak strikes I have seen on eBay, my guess is that die
        convexity has not changed through the series.

        If upset was normal on the PA quarter I bought, then you'd have to
        assume that the die face was completely flat. I can't eliminate that
        hypothesis, but it seems unlikely to me.

        If anybody out there has another PA quarter that's very weakly
        struck, please post a photo.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
        <jylitalo@...> wrote:
        >
        > I wonder then about your weakly struck Connecticut quarter.
        >
        > Does the opposite apply, meaning that there was no proto-rim as
        > opposed to the high proto rim on the PA Quarter? Could it be too
        that
        > the dies were more convex on the Connecticut quarter (or was the
        > planchet actually thinner than normal)?
        >
        > Both quarters are definitely a great pair together
        >
        >
        > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
        > <mdia1@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > It'll make a nice complement to a Connecticut quarter I have that
        > > shows an equally weak strike, but one in which the central design
        > > elements are the only ones visible, along with a weak design rim
        and
        > > no reeding whatsoever. It's in the "weak strikes" album, along
        with
        > > some other weakly struck state quarters that present a more
        > > conventional appearance.
        > >
        >
      • Mike Diamond
        ... you ... not ... Again, that would be explained by die convexity combined with a normal amount of upset. ... outer ... Yes, my working hypothesis is that
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
          <jylitalo@...> wrote:
          >
          > I actually went back and read the posts from a few years back when
          you
          > got the CT quarter. Although it was noted that the rim height was
          not
          > out of the ordinary, I am still curious how the design was struck on
          > both faces and contained in the center, but not near the rim itself.

          Again, that would be explained by die convexity combined with a
          normal amount of upset.

          > If I understand everything, the design is absent (other than the
          outer
          > rim area), because the rim itself is excessively high (PA Quarter).

          Yes, my working hypothesis is that the proto-rim, imparted by the
          upset mill, was unusually high. In a large sample of quarter
          planchets you will see variability in the proto-rim. That goes for
          any denomination

          > That would make sense then, along with the reduction of die
          convexity
          > you mentioned.
          >
          > (I'd read some articles recently about Peace Dollars, and the story
          > behind flattening out the striking dies which had a great amount of
          > convexity. Evidently, the old timer in charge took the working dies
          > and pounded them down himself with some heavy gauge sheet metal, and
          > was just following orders. The fat cat "politicians" did not like
          the
          > "high relief" design of the first year and stepped in to change
          things.)

          One thing I AM researching is whether an abnormally soft die can lose
          its convexity under the tremendous pounding it receives in the
          coinage press. I have some suggestive 1984-P nickels, but my sample
          is as yet too small to come to any firm conclusions.
        • Jeff
          I ve noticed rim design elements absent on a some of the quarters I ve encountered, (pre-1990), when they have been struck off center to some degree. Some of
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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            I've noticed rim design elements absent on a some of the quarters I've
            encountered, (pre-1990), when they have been struck off center to some
            degree. Some of the rim design is either completely gone, or about
            half struck. The more off-center, the more the rim design elements
            seem to have disappeared either on one face, or on rare occasion, both
            faces.

            This gives these period quarters a very interesting look. I'd been
            interpreting them as being struck by mis-aligned dies in some
            instances, rather than die convexity being responsible.

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
            <mdia1@...> wrote:
            >
            > The Connecticut quarter presents a typical appearance for a weakly
            > struck state quarter. There is evidently still a little bit of die
            > convexity built into the design. You'll see the same general
            > appearance in the Vermont weak strikes posted by our long-absent
            > friend Terry. The amount of upset in the planchet that the CT
            > quarter was struck on appears to have been normal. That's why you've
            > got a weak design rim and even the tops of some of the letters on the
            > reverse. You don't see any design rim in older (pre-1990) quarters
            > that show this amount of weakness, as die convexity was greater back
            > then.
          • Mike Diamond
            The effect you re referring to -- the fadeout of peripheral letters -- is very common in pre-1990 quarters. It s due to the greater die convexity, in my
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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              The effect you're referring to -- the fadeout of peripheral letters --
              is very common in pre-1990 quarters. It's due to the greater die
              convexity, in my opinion.

              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
              <jylitalo@...> wrote:
              >
              > I've noticed rim design elements absent on a some of the quarters I've
              > encountered, (pre-1990), when they have been struck off center to some
              > degree. Some of the rim design is either completely gone, or about
              > half struck. The more off-center, the more the rim design elements
              > seem to have disappeared either on one face, or on rare occasion, both
              > faces.
              >
              > This gives these period quarters a very interesting look. I'd been
              > interpreting them as being struck by mis-aligned dies in some
              > instances, rather than die convexity being responsible.
            • Jeff
              Interestingly, I have some quarters dated in the 1990 s that do and do not have this fading of the letters. In particular, two 1998 dated off center quarters,
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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                Interestingly, I have some quarters dated in the 1990's that do and do
                not have this fading of the letters. In particular, two 1998 dated
                off center quarters, one with this fading of peripheral letters and
                one without.

                Since the state quarters introduced both a new obverse design, and an
                ever changing reverse design, it would seem the dies underwent some
                definite changes. For instance, I've not encountered a single
                off-centered state quarter that shows this fading of the letters since
                the state quarters began, (perhaps there could be a few out there). I
                would think then, that this suggests convexity changes, just as you
                have said.

                I've encountered state quarters fully struck, but with the peripheral
                letters having no relief (from the mint bag). They appear flat as a
                pancake. I've not seen this on recent state quarters, but New Jersey
                and Connecticut peripheral letters were very flat, sometimes on the
                obverse, sometimes to a greater degree on the reverse. Often, other
                tell-tall signs of a wearing die, cracks, chips, double die
                deterioration, (just to name a few), accompanied these flat peripheral
                letters, but not always in the same location. (These may be good
                examples of the die surface flattening as they continue to exceed
                normal service life).


                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                <mdia1@...> wrote:
                >
                > The effect you're referring to -- the fadeout of peripheral letters --
                > is very common in pre-1990 quarters. It's due to the greater die
                > convexity, in my opinion.
                >
                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
                > <jylitalo@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I've noticed rim design elements absent on a some of the quarters I've
                > > encountered, (pre-1990), when they have been struck off center to some
                > > degree. Some of the rim design is either completely gone, or about
                > > half struck. The more off-center, the more the rim design elements
                > > seem to have disappeared either on one face, or on rare occasion, both
                > > faces.
                > >
                > > This gives these period quarters a very interesting look. I'd been
                > > interpreting them as being struck by mis-aligned dies in some
                > > instances, rather than die convexity being responsible.
                >
              • Mike Diamond
                ... do ... The extent of fadeout and letter truncation varies even within the same year. Contributing factors would include minimum die clearance and,
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
                  <jylitalo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Interestingly, I have some quarters dated in the 1990's that do and
                  do
                  > not have this fading of the letters. In particular, two 1998 dated
                  > off center quarters, one with this fading of peripheral letters and
                  > one without.

                  The extent of fadeout and letter truncation varies even within the
                  same year. Contributing factors would include minimum die clearance
                  and, perhaps, extent of off-centeredness. It seems to me that
                  fadeout is less pronounced in way off-center strikes, perhaps due to
                  the increased effective striking pressure on the smaller area that is
                  exposed to the strike.


                  > Since the state quarters introduced both a new obverse design, and
                  an
                  > ever changing reverse design, it would seem the dies underwent some
                  > definite changes. For instance, I've not encountered a single
                  > off-centered state quarter that shows this fading of the letters
                  since
                  > the state quarters began, (perhaps there could be a few out
                  there). I
                  > would think then, that this suggests convexity changes, just as you
                  > have said.

                  I also haven't seen an off-center state quarter with fadeout.

                  > I've encountered state quarters fully struck, but with the
                  peripheral
                  > letters having no relief (from the mint bag). They appear flat as a
                  > pancake.

                  That would reflect a slightly weak strike, probably from excessive
                  minimum die clearance.

                  > I've not seen this on recent state quarters, but New Jersey
                  > and Connecticut peripheral letters were very flat, sometimes on the
                  > obverse, sometimes to a greater degree on the reverse.

                  This effect is often seen on Delaware quarters, too.

                  > Often, other
                  > tell-tall signs of a wearing die, cracks, chips, double die
                  > deterioration, (just to name a few), accompanied these flat
                  peripheral
                  > letters, but not always in the same location. (These may be good
                  > examples of the die surface flattening as they continue to exceed
                  > normal service life).

                  Signs of die deterioration and brittle fracture are common. I don't
                  think they have any connection to the weakly struck peripheral
                  letters. Since the die face is almost flat when installed, it would
                  probably be impossible to detect further flattening. That's why I'm
                  looking at earlier years with marked die convexity.
                • Jeff
                  That is cool. So, if your looking at earlier years, what exactly do you need, more precisely, what exactly are you looking for which you lack or do not have so
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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                    That is cool.

                    So, if your looking at earlier years, what exactly do you need, more
                    precisely, what exactly are you looking for which you lack or do not
                    have so that you can show or illustrate this "softening of the die" or
                    to prove that the die becomes flatter?

                    Just time maybe?


                    >
                    > Signs of die deterioration and brittle fracture are common. I don't
                    > think they have any connection to the weakly struck peripheral
                    > letters. Since the die face is almost flat when installed, it would
                    > probably be impossible to detect further flattening. That's why I'm
                    > looking at earlier years with marked die convexity.
                    >
                  • Travis Bolton
                    Hey guys, I wish I had another PA quarter Mike for camparison but I did at one time have a Connecticut quarter DAS, I sold it a couple of years ago but saved a
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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                      Hey guys,
                      I wish I had another PA quarter Mike for camparison but I did at one
                      time have a Connecticut quarter DAS, I sold it a couple of years ago
                      but saved a couple of scans of it. I haven't seen your CT but just
                      thought I would show it to contribute to the discussion. It was
                      slabbed PCGS AU55.

                      http://members.cox.net/kransom2/CT1.jpg

                      http://members.cox.net/kransom2/CT2.jpg

                      --Travis

                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
                      <jylitalo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > That is cool.
                      >
                      > So, if your looking at earlier years, what exactly do you need, more
                      > precisely, what exactly are you looking for which you lack or do not
                      > have so that you can show or illustrate this "softening of the die"
                      or
                      > to prove that the die becomes flatter?
                      >
                      > Just time maybe?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Signs of die deterioration and brittle fracture are common. I
                      don't
                      > > think they have any connection to the weakly struck peripheral
                      > > letters. Since the die face is almost flat when installed, it
                      would
                      > > probably be impossible to detect further flattening. That's why
                      I'm
                      > > looking at earlier years with marked die convexity.
                      > >
                      >
                    • Travis Bolton
                      Correction, I checked the weak strikes album and saw your CT Mike. A very light strike! ... one ... ago ... more ... not ... die ... why
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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                        Correction, I checked the weak strikes album and saw your CT Mike. A
                        very light strike!

                        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
                        <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey guys,
                        > I wish I had another PA quarter Mike for camparison but I did at
                        one
                        > time have a Connecticut quarter DAS, I sold it a couple of years
                        ago
                        > but saved a couple of scans of it. I haven't seen your CT but just
                        > thought I would show it to contribute to the discussion. It was
                        > slabbed PCGS AU55.
                        >
                        > http://members.cox.net/kransom2/CT1.jpg
                        >
                        > http://members.cox.net/kransom2/CT2.jpg
                        >
                        > --Travis
                        >
                        > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
                        > <jylitalo@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > That is cool.
                        > >
                        > > So, if your looking at earlier years, what exactly do you need,
                        more
                        > > precisely, what exactly are you looking for which you lack or do
                        not
                        > > have so that you can show or illustrate this "softening of the
                        die"
                        > or
                        > > to prove that the die becomes flatter?
                        > >
                        > > Just time maybe?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Signs of die deterioration and brittle fracture are common. I
                        > don't
                        > > > think they have any connection to the weakly struck peripheral
                        > > > letters. Since the die face is almost flat when installed, it
                        > would
                        > > > probably be impossible to detect further flattening. That's
                        why
                        > I'm
                        > > > looking at earlier years with marked die convexity.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Mike Diamond
                        I ve only just started my investigation and it might prove to be a dead end. I ve been working on lots of other projects, so my attention to the issue has
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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                          I've only just started my investigation and it might prove to be a dead
                          end. I've been working on lots of other projects, so my attention to
                          the issue has been sporadic.

                          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff"
                          <jylitalo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > That is cool.
                          >
                          > So, if your looking at earlier years, what exactly do you need, more
                          > precisely, what exactly are you looking for which you lack or do not
                          > have so that you can show or illustrate this "softening of the die" or
                          > to prove that the die becomes flatter?
                          >
                          > Just time maybe?
                        • Mike Diamond
                          Thanks for the scan of the CT quarter. It shows a conventional weak strike, with design strongest in the center. You ll note how poorly struck the peripheral
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 1, 2007
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                            Thanks for the scan of the CT quarter. It shows a conventional weak
                            strike, with design strongest in the center. You'll note how poorly
                            struck the peripheral letters are. It's a nice contrast to your
                            exceptional Pennsylvania quarter. I don't recall seeing many weakly
                            struck Pennsylvania quarters; I suppose frequency does fluctuate from
                            issue to issue. Virginia produced an exceptionally large number of
                            weak strikes.

                            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
                            <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Correction, I checked the weak strikes album and saw your CT Mike.
                            A
                            > very light strike!
                            >
                            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis
                            Bolton"
                            > <travisbolton543@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hey guys,
                            > > I wish I had another PA quarter Mike for camparison but I did at
                            > one
                            > > time have a Connecticut quarter DAS, I sold it a couple of years
                            > ago
                            > > but saved a couple of scans of it. I haven't seen your CT but
                            just
                            > > thought I would show it to contribute to the discussion. It was
                            > > slabbed PCGS AU55.
                            > >
                            > > http://members.cox.net/kransom2/CT1.jpg
                            > >
                            > > http://members.cox.net/kransom2/CT2.jpg
                            > >
                            > > --Travis
                          • Mike Diamond
                            I received Travis Pennsylvania quarter today, and I m even more impressed at its peculiar appearance. The boundary between the die- struck periphery and
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 5, 2007
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                              I received Travis' Pennsylvania quarter today, and I'm even more
                              impressed at its peculiar appearance. The boundary between the die-
                              struck periphery and featureless center is even more abrupt than it
                              appears in the photos. I would say there's a subtle but detectable
                              drop-off at this circular boundary line. The amount of upset that must
                              have been originally present on this coin would have been a remarkable
                              departure from the norm.

                              Now I have to decide whether to crack it out for additional study.
                              Travis says full speed ahead. I'll mull it over for a day.
                            • Al C.
                              Interesting. :) ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 5, 2007
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                                Interesting. :)


                                --- Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:

                                > I received Travis' Pennsylvania quarter today, and
                                > I'm even more
                                > impressed at its peculiar appearance. The boundary
                                > between the die-
                                > struck periphery and featureless center is even more
                                > abrupt than it
                                > appears in the photos. I would say there's a subtle
                                > but detectable
                                > drop-off at this circular boundary line. The amount
                                > of upset that must
                                > have been originally present on this coin would have
                                > been a remarkable
                                > departure from the norm.
                                >
                                > Now I have to decide whether to crack it out for
                                > additional study.
                                > Travis says full speed ahead. I'll mull it over for
                                > a day.
                                >
                                >




                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                                that gives answers, not web links.
                                http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                              • Travis Bolton
                                I am glad it made it there A-OK. I very rarely crack out coins, but as I said before Mike since it s not mine now you should get cracking! Easy for me to say
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 5, 2007
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                                  I am glad it made it there A-OK. I very rarely crack out coins, but
                                  as I said before Mike since it's not mine now you should get
                                  cracking! Easy for me to say though....


                                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Al C."
                                  <bull102797@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Interesting. :)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- Mike Diamond <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I received Travis' Pennsylvania quarter today, and
                                  > > I'm even more
                                  > > impressed at its peculiar appearance. The boundary
                                  > > between the die-
                                  > > struck periphery and featureless center is even more
                                  > > abrupt than it
                                  > > appears in the photos. I would say there's a subtle
                                  > > but detectable
                                  > > drop-off at this circular boundary line. The amount
                                  > > of upset that must
                                  > > have been originally present on this coin would have
                                  > > been a remarkable
                                  > > departure from the norm.
                                  > >
                                  > > Now I have to decide whether to crack it out for
                                  > > additional study.
                                  > > Travis says full speed ahead. I'll mull it over for
                                  > > a day.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  ______________________________________________________________________
                                  ______________
                                  > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
                                  > that gives answers, not web links.
                                  > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
                                  >
                                • Jeff
                                  Beauty........ :^)
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jul 5, 2007
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                                    Beauty........ :^)


                                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                                    <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I received Travis' Pennsylvania quarter today, and I'm even more
                                    > impressed at its peculiar appearance. The boundary between the die-
                                    > struck periphery and featureless center is even more abrupt than it
                                    > appears in the photos. I would say there's a subtle but detectable
                                    > drop-off at this circular boundary line. The amount of upset that must
                                    > have been originally present on this coin would have been a remarkable
                                    > departure from the norm.
                                    >
                                    > Now I have to decide whether to crack it out for additional study.
                                    > Travis says full speed ahead. I'll mull it over for a day.
                                    >
                                  • Mike Diamond
                                    You re probably right. At the very least, I should crack it out in order to weigh it. Gotta make sure that something else isn t going on. Stay tuned...
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jul 5, 2007
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                                      You're probably right. At the very least, I should crack it out in
                                      order to weigh it. Gotta make sure that something else isn't going
                                      on. Stay tuned...

                                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
                                      <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I am glad it made it there A-OK. I very rarely crack out coins, but
                                      > as I said before Mike since it's not mine now you should get
                                      > cracking! Easy for me to say though....
                                    • Mike Diamond
                                      I cracked it out today. The weight is normal (5.7 grams on my quickie scale). Reeding ranges from weak to absent. So my original hypothesis of abnormally
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jul 6, 2007
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                                        I cracked it out today. The weight is normal (5.7 grams on my quickie
                                        scale). Reeding ranges from weak to absent.

                                        So my original hypothesis of abnormally strong upset seems to be
                                        confirmed.

                                        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                                        <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > You're probably right. At the very least, I should crack it out in
                                        > order to weigh it. Gotta make sure that something else isn't going
                                        > on. Stay tuned...
                                      • Travis Bolton
                                        I know you like unusual upset edge coins Mike. I am glad it is..... without a doubt....normal weight.
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jul 6, 2007
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                                          I know you like unusual upset edge coins Mike. I am glad it is.....
                                          without a doubt....normal weight.

                                          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                                          <mdia1@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I cracked it out today. The weight is normal (5.7 grams on my quickie
                                          > scale). Reeding ranges from weak to absent.
                                          >
                                          > So my original hypothesis of abnormally strong upset seems to be
                                          > confirmed.
                                          >
                                          > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                                          > <mdia1@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > You're probably right. At the very least, I should crack it out in
                                          > > order to weigh it. Gotta make sure that something else isn't going
                                          > > on. Stay tuned...
                                          >
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