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Out Of Place "D" On Rim (another Washington $)

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  • Adam Miller
    I added two photos to the default album of the out of place mint mark. My question is simple. Are these worth looking for, or should we simply put them back
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 26, 2007
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      I added two photos to the default album of the out of place mint mark.
      My question is simple.
      Are these worth looking for, or should we simply put them back into circulation?
      Are they caused from a "Jam" after the edges have been embedded?
      There has been so much talk about this, but I tend to get lost in some of the terminology.

      --
      God Bless,
      Adam Miller
       
    • Marc
      I have noticed several out of place letters like this, plus other marks on the edge in several ebay listings this past week. My guess is that it s either a
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 26, 2007
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        I have noticed several 'out of place' letters like this, plus other
        marks on the edge in several ebay listings this past week. My guess is
        that it's either a slip or a bounce.
        As the informative front page article in 2/26 CW explains, the
        lettering is applied by rolling the coin along a "block of tooling
        steel that contains the required edge lettering" (die). Perhaps in
        ejection, the coin may slip (as you's slip on ice) or bounce (like
        ejection doubling) causing these new errors.
        It has to happen at this stage of production. Just what happens is the
        question. The article explains the new process.
        Also, proof coins are collar struck with the edge lettering on the
        collar. This is a totally different process than circulation coins. I
        wonder why they didn't use collar dies for circulation strikes. The
        one step would have been more efficient and given the error collectors
        more errors to look for.
      • Adam Miller
        OH OK. Are they worth looking for? Or are they going to be a common error with no $ value. (in your opinion) ... -- God Bless, Adam Miller Ozark Mountain
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 26, 2007
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          OH OK.
          Are they worth looking for?
          Or are they going to be a common error with no $ value. (in your opinion)

           
          On 2/26/07, Marc <numismistake@...> wrote:

          I have noticed several 'out of place' letters like this, plus other
          marks on the edge in several ebay listings this past week. My guess is
          that it's either a slip or a bounce.
          As the informative front page article in 2/26 CW explains, the
          lettering is applied by rolling the coin along a "block of tooling
          steel that contains the required edge lettering" (die). Perhaps in
          ejection, the coin may slip (as you's slip on ice) or bounce (like
          ejection doubling) causing these new errors.
          It has to happen at this stage of production. Just what happens is the
          question. The article explains the new process.
          Also, proof coins are collar struck with the edge lettering on the
          collar. This is a totally different process than circulation coins. I
          wonder why they didn't use collar dies for circulation strikes. The
          one step would have been more efficient and given the error collectors
          more errors to look for.




          --
          God Bless,
          Adam Miller

          Ozark Mountain Photography
          www.handsguidedbygod.com

          Kay's Gifts & More
          (Gifts, Electronics, Collectibles, & More)
          http://www.giftshopsavings.com/
        • Mike Diamond
          I d need to better understand the nature and origin of these errors before offering an opinion as to rarity and value. I think you should keep them all, at
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 27, 2007
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            I'd need to better understand the nature and origin of these errors
            before offering an opinion as to rarity and value. I think you should
            keep them all, at least until the picture becomes clearer. This is a
            whole new world.

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Miller"
            <adammiller69@...> wrote:
            >
            > I added two photos to the default album of the out of place mint mark.
            > My question is simple.
            > Are these worth looking for, or should we simply put them back into
            > circulation?
            > Are they caused from a "Jam" after the edges have been embedded?
            > There has been so much talk about this, but I tend to get lost in
            some of
            > the terminology.
            >
            > --
            > God Bless,
            > Adam Miller
            >
          • portpere
            Im my opinion, these are the result of being squeezed against another coin (post-strike)and some of the rim elements are being transfered. Some are light and
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 28, 2007
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              Im my opinion, these are the result of being squeezed against
              another coin (post-strike)and some of the rim elements are being
              transfered. Some are light and others quite clear probably according
              to the pressure involved. Seems they have been commanding $5-$10 on
              eBay. Now the smooth rims are another story. They are obvious and
              there are a fair amount of them out there. It would be nice to have
              a slabbed set of P & D. I heard that the proofs will be edge struck
              in collar, so we probably won't see S mints with smooth edges. But,
              of course, the in collar edge strike may shower us with different
              errors. Some of these dollar errors could become famous errors as
              long as the Mint corrects these early problems. It's a fun time to
              collect errors. I bet there are more than a few non-collectors that
              have a "lucky" smooth edged Washington dollars in their pocket right
              now.
              John
              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
              <mdia1@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'd need to better understand the nature and origin of these
              errors
              > before offering an opinion as to rarity and value. I think you
              should
              > keep them all, at least until the picture becomes clearer. This
              is a
              > whole new world.
              >
              > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Miller"
              > <adammiller69@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I added two photos to the default album of the out of place mint
              mark.
              > > My question is simple.
              > > Are these worth looking for, or should we simply put them back
              into
              > > circulation?
              > > Are they caused from a "Jam" after the edges have been embedded?
              > > There has been so much talk about this, but I tend to get lost
              in
              > some of
              > > the terminology.
              > >
              > > --
              > > God Bless,
              > > Adam Miller
              > >
              >
            • Mike Diamond
              There are at least two populations of weakly-developed extra letters. One is raised and mirror-image. These are possibly due to coins being rolled and
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 28, 2007
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                There are at least two populations of weakly-developed extra
                letters. One is raised and mirror-image. These are possibly due to
                coins being rolled and squeezed against each other in mint
                machinery. The other population (the one Adam is referring to)
                features incuse, normally-oriented letters. These are probably due
                to a malfunction of the lettering device. Whether device is jamming,
                vibrating, skipping or a combination of such events has yet to be
                determined. But it appears that the incuse extra letters are being
                caused by direct contact with the lettering machine.

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, portpere
                <no_reply@...> wrote:
                >
                > Im my opinion, these are the result of being squeezed against
                > another coin (post-strike)and some of the rim elements are being
                > transfered. Some are light and others quite clear probably
                according
                > to the pressure involved. Seems they have been commanding $5-$10 on
                > eBay. Now the smooth rims are another story. They are obvious and
                > there are a fair amount of them out there. It would be nice to have
                > a slabbed set of P & D. I heard that the proofs will be edge struck
                > in collar, so we probably won't see S mints with smooth edges. But,
                > of course, the in collar edge strike may shower us with different
                > errors. Some of these dollar errors could become famous errors as
                > long as the Mint corrects these early problems. It's a fun time to
                > collect errors. I bet there are more than a few non-collectors that
                > have a "lucky" smooth edged Washington dollars in their pocket
                right
                > now.
                > John
              • portpere
                Mike, Would you agree that the squeezed coins are post stike damage and the the normally oriented lettering might be an DDE or Double Die Edge? Another thing
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 28, 2007
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                  Mike,
                  Would you agree that the squeezed coins are post stike damage and
                  the the normally oriented lettering might be an DDE or Double Die
                  Edge?
                  Another thing that I have been wondering. Are these
                  planchets "softer" than the other circulating coins? I know that
                  very high grade sag. dollars are low pop. Could the softer metal
                  allow for more of all type of errors? I think a metal like the
                  modern nickel would be more stable if used in this process.
                  John
                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                  <mdia1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > There are at least two populations of weakly-developed extra
                  > letters. One is raised and mirror-image. These are possibly due
                  to
                  > coins being rolled and squeezed against each other in mint
                  > machinery. The other population (the one Adam is referring to)
                  > features incuse, normally-oriented letters. These are probably
                  due
                  > to a malfunction of the lettering device. Whether device is
                  jamming,
                  > vibrating, skipping or a combination of such events has yet to be
                  > determined. But it appears that the incuse extra letters are
                  being
                  > caused by direct contact with the lettering machine.
                  >
                  > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, portpere
                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Im my opinion, these are the result of being squeezed against
                  > > another coin (post-strike)and some of the rim elements are being
                  > > transfered. Some are light and others quite clear probably
                  > according
                  > > to the pressure involved. Seems they have been commanding $5-$10
                  on
                  > > eBay. Now the smooth rims are another story. They are obvious
                  and
                  > > there are a fair amount of them out there. It would be nice to
                  have
                  > > a slabbed set of P & D. I heard that the proofs will be edge
                  struck
                  > > in collar, so we probably won't see S mints with smooth edges.
                  But,
                  > > of course, the in collar edge strike may shower us with
                  different
                  > > errors. Some of these dollar errors could become famous errors
                  as
                  > > long as the Mint corrects these early problems. It's a fun time
                  to
                  > > collect errors. I bet there are more than a few non-collectors
                  that
                  > > have a "lucky" smooth edged Washington dollars in their pocket
                  > right
                  > > now.
                  > > John
                  >
                • Mike Diamond
                  ... If the scenario I laid out is correct, then yes. ... Die ... DDE or Doubled Die would presumably only apply to errors in the manufacturing of the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 28, 2007
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                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, portpere
                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Mike,
                    > Would you agree that the squeezed coins are post stike damage?

                    If the scenario I laid out is correct, then yes.

                    > and the the normally oriented lettering might be an DDE or Double
                    Die
                    > Edge?

                    "DDE" or "Doubled Die" would presumably only apply to errors in the
                    manufacturing of the raised letters on the lettering device. There
                    is no evidence that this is the root cause, so no.

                    > Another thing that I have been wondering. Are these
                    > planchets "softer" than the other circulating coins?

                    The lettering is placed on the dollars after they are struck. The
                    coins would therefore be work-hardened.
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