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Re: Partial die cap

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  • Mike Diamond
    Since there is absolutely no sign of movement between strikes on the obverse face, it stands to reason that the off-center coin clung to the die face between
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2006
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      Since there is absolutely no sign of movement between strikes on the
      obverse face, it stands to reason that the off-center coin clung to
      the die face between strikes. Since the obverse design is in its
      correct orientation relative to the reverse design, this would also
      support the partial die cap scenario.

      As I've always stated, cupping is a very unreliable diagnostic for
      identifying die caps. Some die caps (like many reverse die caps)
      show no cupping, while some coins that are not die caps show deep
      cupping. The latter would include uniface broadstrikes and
      broadstrikes with a first-strike brockage on the reverse face. In
      most cases, cupping doesn't appear necessary for adhesion. It's
      simply the way that coin metal curls or bends in response to the
      stresses of the strike. I'm not exactly sure of the mechanism by
      which a newly struck coin adheres to the die face. I don't know if
      it's suction, a weak atomic bond (Van der Waal's force), or a sticky
      film on the die face or planchet.

      I've seen a number of partial die caps, and cupping was weak to
      absent on all of them. Which isn't to say that all such coins will
      be weakly cupped.

      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Schemmer"
      <RichErrors@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I see NO evidence this coin adhered-to the Obverse die? Looks
      like
      > a dble struck off center, where this coin rested on top on a newly
      > fed in blank planchet. I see no where near enough cupping that
      would
      > have caused some type of suction to adhere this coin to the Obverse
      > die.. No cupping of the coin either?? I await to hear your
      thoughts
      > Mike..
      >
      > Thanx
      > Rich Schemmer
      > Rich Schemmer Error Coins
      > http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php-- In
      > errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
      > <travisbolton543@> wrote:
      > >
      > > wow that's a really a neat one Mike. It's cool that the obverse
      > shows
      > > no signs of a double strike at all, that I noticed anyway.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
      Diamond"
      > > <mdia1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy
      It
      > > Now
      > > > purchase:
      > > >
      > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
      > ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
      > > >
      > > > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck
      on
      > > both
      > > > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck
      into
      > > the
      > > > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face.
      It
      > > also
      > > > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the
      underlying
      > > coin.
      > > > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the
      die
      > > > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
      > > >
      > > > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already,
      but
      > I
      > > > can't resist a bargain.
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Mike Diamond
      It s a slightly cupped, uncentered broadstrike with split-line doubling. The copper plating has split in parallel with Lincoln s profile. So the seller s
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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        It's a slightly cupped, uncentered broadstrike with split-line
        doubling. The copper plating has split in parallel with Lincoln's
        profile.

        So the seller's description was basically correct.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, whitetumbleweed
        <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > I bought this a month ago from the same seller.
        > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160017539251
        > It is cupped.
        > I hope he didn't catch all the errors on this one also. Did he?
      • ibcooleyes
        Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of the large coin rolling
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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          Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
          found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
          the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding such
          coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.



          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
          <mdia1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy It
          Now
          > purchase:
          >
          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
          >
          > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck on
          both
          > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck into
          the
          > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face. It
          also
          > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the underlying
          coin.
          > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the die
          > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
          >
          > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already, but I
          > can't resist a bargain.
          >
        • Mike Diamond
          In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting houses (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn bags are out these
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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            In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting houses
            (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn
            bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic bags".

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
            <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
            > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
            > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding such
            > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
          • Error Coins
            This auction: http://tinyurl.com/m42t2 APPEARS to be 2 reverse dies. I ve owned the one with the Indian head on one side and one of these reverses shows the
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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              This auction:

              http://tinyurl.com/m42t2

              APPEARS to be 2 reverse dies. I've owned the one with the Indian head on one
              side and one of these reverses shows the aftermath of a crash with this
              obverse.

              Assuming these pictures are correct - is this a known CWT?

              Later.....
              Steve
            • ibcooleyes
              So what you are saying these type errors are found in these hug ballistic bags . and no where else ? And these huge ballistic bags are where ? How may
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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                So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                bags" are where ?

                How may people that are associated with this forum are involved with
                the u s mint ?.






                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                <mdia1@...> wrote:
                >
                > In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting
                houses
                > (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn
                > bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic bags".
                >
                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
                > > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
                > > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding
                such
                > > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
                >
              • Rich Schemmer
                You would have a better chance getting the Stealth secrets from the US Gov t, than to expect an error dealer to give up his error sources ... LOL ... with ...
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 5, 2006
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                  You would have a better chance getting the Stealth secrets from the
                  US Gov't, than to expect an error dealer to give up his error
                  sources ... LOL

                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                  > hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                  > bags" are where ?
                  >
                  > How may people that are associated with this forum are involved
                  with
                  > the u s mint ?.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                  > <mdia1@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting
                  > houses
                  > > (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-
                  sewn
                  > > bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic
                  bags".
                  > >
                  > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                  > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they
                  always
                  > > > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one
                  of
                  > > > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at
                  finding
                  > such
                  > > > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
                  > >
                  >
                • Mike Diamond
                  As best as I can recall, the ballistic bags are shipped directly to armored car services and possibly Federal Reserve Banks. Unless you have contacts in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 5, 2006
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                    As best as I can recall, the ballistic bags are shipped directly to
                    armored car services and possibly Federal Reserve Banks. Unless you
                    have contacts in either place, you're pretty much out of luck, at
                    least when it comes to grossly deformed coins. The government has
                    clamped down on the release of defective coins in the rare event that
                    some actually get past increasingly stringent quality control
                    technology.

                    Error coins that have a normal or near-normal diameter can still be
                    found in rolls.

                    There are no mint employees among our membership, to my knowledge.

                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                    > hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                    > bags" are where ?
                    >
                    > How may people that are associated with this forum are involved
                    with
                    > the u s mint ?.
                  • Michael
                    One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It s a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 12, 2009
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                      One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It's a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:

                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230384944656

                      Notice how the reverse design is expanded and distorted. The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die-struck on both faces). The coin clung to the obverse (hammer) die and was struck into the next planchet fed in beneath it. After that it fell off.

                      I suspect this specimen escaped the notice of most bidders (they often do) as it didn't cost me much.
                    • Jon Sullivan
                      I ve been able to cherrypick these several times myself. Seems like most people don t know what they have or don t know about the error type itself. Great
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 12, 2009
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                        I've been able to cherrypick these several times myself. Seems like most people don't know what they have or don't know about the error type itself. Great find!
                        
                        Jon
                        
                         
                        
                        On Monday, October 12, 2009, at 06:57PM, "Michael" <mdia1@...> wrote: >
                         

                        One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It's a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:

                        http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=23038494465 6

                        Notice how the reverse design is expanded and distorted. The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die-struck on both faces). The coin clung to the obverse (hammer) die and was struck into the next planchet fed in beneath it. After that it fell off.

                        I suspect this specimen escaped the notice of most bidders (they often do) as it didn't cost me much.

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