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Re: Partial die cap

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  • Rich Schemmer
    I see NO evidence this coin adhered-to the Obverse die? Looks like a dble struck off center, where this coin rested on top on a newly fed in blank planchet.
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2006
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      I see NO evidence this coin adhered-to the Obverse die? Looks like
      a dble struck off center, where this coin rested on top on a newly
      fed in blank planchet. I see no where near enough cupping that would
      have caused some type of suction to adhere this coin to the Obverse
      die.. No cupping of the coin either?? I await to hear your thoughts
      Mike..

      Thanx
      Rich Schemmer
      Rich Schemmer Error Coins
      http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php-- In
      errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
      <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
      >
      > wow that's a really a neat one Mike. It's cool that the obverse
      shows
      > no signs of a double strike at all, that I noticed anyway.
      >
      >
      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
      > <mdia1@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy It
      > Now
      > > purchase:
      > >
      > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
      ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
      > >
      > > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck on
      > both
      > > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck into
      > the
      > > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face. It
      > also
      > > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the underlying
      > coin.
      > > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the die
      > > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
      > >
      > > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already, but
      I
      > > can't resist a bargain.
      > >
      >
    • Mike Diamond
      Since there is absolutely no sign of movement between strikes on the obverse face, it stands to reason that the off-center coin clung to the die face between
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 3, 2006
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        Since there is absolutely no sign of movement between strikes on the
        obverse face, it stands to reason that the off-center coin clung to
        the die face between strikes. Since the obverse design is in its
        correct orientation relative to the reverse design, this would also
        support the partial die cap scenario.

        As I've always stated, cupping is a very unreliable diagnostic for
        identifying die caps. Some die caps (like many reverse die caps)
        show no cupping, while some coins that are not die caps show deep
        cupping. The latter would include uniface broadstrikes and
        broadstrikes with a first-strike brockage on the reverse face. In
        most cases, cupping doesn't appear necessary for adhesion. It's
        simply the way that coin metal curls or bends in response to the
        stresses of the strike. I'm not exactly sure of the mechanism by
        which a newly struck coin adheres to the die face. I don't know if
        it's suction, a weak atomic bond (Van der Waal's force), or a sticky
        film on the die face or planchet.

        I've seen a number of partial die caps, and cupping was weak to
        absent on all of them. Which isn't to say that all such coins will
        be weakly cupped.

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Schemmer"
        <RichErrors@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I see NO evidence this coin adhered-to the Obverse die? Looks
        like
        > a dble struck off center, where this coin rested on top on a newly
        > fed in blank planchet. I see no where near enough cupping that
        would
        > have caused some type of suction to adhere this coin to the Obverse
        > die.. No cupping of the coin either?? I await to hear your
        thoughts
        > Mike..
        >
        > Thanx
        > Rich Schemmer
        > Rich Schemmer Error Coins
        > http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php-- In
        > errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
        > <travisbolton543@> wrote:
        > >
        > > wow that's a really a neat one Mike. It's cool that the obverse
        > shows
        > > no signs of a double strike at all, that I noticed anyway.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
        Diamond"
        > > <mdia1@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy
        It
        > > Now
        > > > purchase:
        > > >
        > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
        > ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
        > > >
        > > > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck
        on
        > > both
        > > > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck
        into
        > > the
        > > > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face.
        It
        > > also
        > > > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the
        underlying
        > > coin.
        > > > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the
        die
        > > > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
        > > >
        > > > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already,
        but
        > I
        > > > can't resist a bargain.
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Mike Diamond
        It s a slightly cupped, uncentered broadstrike with split-line doubling. The copper plating has split in parallel with Lincoln s profile. So the seller s
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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          It's a slightly cupped, uncentered broadstrike with split-line
          doubling. The copper plating has split in parallel with Lincoln's
          profile.

          So the seller's description was basically correct.

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, whitetumbleweed
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > I bought this a month ago from the same seller.
          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160017539251
          > It is cupped.
          > I hope he didn't catch all the errors on this one also. Did he?
        • ibcooleyes
          Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of the large coin rolling
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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            Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
            found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
            the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding such
            coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.



            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
            <mdia1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy It
            Now
            > purchase:
            >
            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
            >
            > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck on
            both
            > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck into
            the
            > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face. It
            also
            > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the underlying
            coin.
            > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the die
            > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
            >
            > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already, but I
            > can't resist a bargain.
            >
          • Mike Diamond
            In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting houses (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn bags are out these
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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              In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting houses
              (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn
              bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic bags".

              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
              <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
              > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
              > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding such
              > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
            • Error Coins
              This auction: http://tinyurl.com/m42t2 APPEARS to be 2 reverse dies. I ve owned the one with the Indian head on one side and one of these reverses shows the
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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                This auction:

                http://tinyurl.com/m42t2

                APPEARS to be 2 reverse dies. I've owned the one with the Indian head on one
                side and one of these reverses shows the aftermath of a crash with this
                obverse.

                Assuming these pictures are correct - is this a known CWT?

                Later.....
                Steve
              • ibcooleyes
                So what you are saying these type errors are found in these hug ballistic bags . and no where else ? And these huge ballistic bags are where ? How may
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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                  So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                  hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                  bags" are where ?

                  How may people that are associated with this forum are involved with
                  the u s mint ?.






                  --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                  <mdia1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting
                  houses
                  > (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn
                  > bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic bags".
                  >
                  > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
                  > > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
                  > > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding
                  such
                  > > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
                  >
                • Rich Schemmer
                  You would have a better chance getting the Stealth secrets from the US Gov t, than to expect an error dealer to give up his error sources ... LOL ... with ...
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 5, 2006
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                    You would have a better chance getting the Stealth secrets from the
                    US Gov't, than to expect an error dealer to give up his error
                    sources ... LOL

                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                    > hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                    > bags" are where ?
                    >
                    > How may people that are associated with this forum are involved
                    with
                    > the u s mint ?.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                    > <mdia1@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting
                    > houses
                    > > (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-
                    sewn
                    > > bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic
                    bags".
                    > >
                    > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                    > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they
                    always
                    > > > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one
                    of
                    > > > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at
                    finding
                    > such
                    > > > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
                    > >
                    >
                  • Mike Diamond
                    As best as I can recall, the ballistic bags are shipped directly to armored car services and possibly Federal Reserve Banks. Unless you have contacts in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 5, 2006
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                      As best as I can recall, the ballistic bags are shipped directly to
                      armored car services and possibly Federal Reserve Banks. Unless you
                      have contacts in either place, you're pretty much out of luck, at
                      least when it comes to grossly deformed coins. The government has
                      clamped down on the release of defective coins in the rare event that
                      some actually get past increasingly stringent quality control
                      technology.

                      Error coins that have a normal or near-normal diameter can still be
                      found in rolls.

                      There are no mint employees among our membership, to my knowledge.

                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                      > hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                      > bags" are where ?
                      >
                      > How may people that are associated with this forum are involved
                      with
                      > the u s mint ?.
                    • Michael
                      One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It s a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 12, 2009
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                        One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It's a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:

                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230384944656

                        Notice how the reverse design is expanded and distorted. The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die-struck on both faces). The coin clung to the obverse (hammer) die and was struck into the next planchet fed in beneath it. After that it fell off.

                        I suspect this specimen escaped the notice of most bidders (they often do) as it didn't cost me much.
                      • Jon Sullivan
                        I ve been able to cherrypick these several times myself. Seems like most people don t know what they have or don t know about the error type itself. Great
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 12, 2009
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                          I've been able to cherrypick these several times myself. Seems like most people don't know what they have or don't know about the error type itself. Great find!
                          
                          Jon
                          
                           
                          
                          On Monday, October 12, 2009, at 06:57PM, "Michael" <mdia1@...> wrote: >
                           

                          One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It's a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:

                          http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=23038494465 6

                          Notice how the reverse design is expanded and distorted. The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die-struck on both faces). The coin clung to the obverse (hammer) die and was struck into the next planchet fed in beneath it. After that it fell off.

                          I suspect this specimen escaped the notice of most bidders (they often do) as it didn't cost me much.

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