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Re: Partial die cap

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  • Travis Bolton
    wow that s a really a neat one Mike. It s cool that the obverse shows no signs of a double strike at all, that I noticed anyway. ... Now ... both ... the ...
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 3, 2006
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      wow that's a really a neat one Mike. It's cool that the obverse shows
      no signs of a double strike at all, that I noticed anyway.


      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
      <mdia1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy It
      Now
      > purchase:
      >
      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
      >
      > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck on
      both
      > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck into
      the
      > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face. It
      also
      > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the underlying
      coin.
      > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the die
      > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
      >
      > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already, but I
      > can't resist a bargain.
      >
    • Rich Schemmer
      I see NO evidence this coin adhered-to the Obverse die? Looks like a dble struck off center, where this coin rested on top on a newly fed in blank planchet.
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 3, 2006
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        I see NO evidence this coin adhered-to the Obverse die? Looks like
        a dble struck off center, where this coin rested on top on a newly
        fed in blank planchet. I see no where near enough cupping that would
        have caused some type of suction to adhere this coin to the Obverse
        die.. No cupping of the coin either?? I await to hear your thoughts
        Mike..

        Thanx
        Rich Schemmer
        Rich Schemmer Error Coins
        http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php-- In
        errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
        <travisbolton543@...> wrote:
        >
        > wow that's a really a neat one Mike. It's cool that the obverse
        shows
        > no signs of a double strike at all, that I noticed anyway.
        >
        >
        > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
        > <mdia1@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy It
        > Now
        > > purchase:
        > >
        > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
        ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
        > >
        > > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck on
        > both
        > > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck into
        > the
        > > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face. It
        > also
        > > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the underlying
        > coin.
        > > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the die
        > > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
        > >
        > > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already, but
        I
        > > can't resist a bargain.
        > >
        >
      • Mike Diamond
        Since there is absolutely no sign of movement between strikes on the obverse face, it stands to reason that the off-center coin clung to the die face between
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 3, 2006
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          Since there is absolutely no sign of movement between strikes on the
          obverse face, it stands to reason that the off-center coin clung to
          the die face between strikes. Since the obverse design is in its
          correct orientation relative to the reverse design, this would also
          support the partial die cap scenario.

          As I've always stated, cupping is a very unreliable diagnostic for
          identifying die caps. Some die caps (like many reverse die caps)
          show no cupping, while some coins that are not die caps show deep
          cupping. The latter would include uniface broadstrikes and
          broadstrikes with a first-strike brockage on the reverse face. In
          most cases, cupping doesn't appear necessary for adhesion. It's
          simply the way that coin metal curls or bends in response to the
          stresses of the strike. I'm not exactly sure of the mechanism by
          which a newly struck coin adheres to the die face. I don't know if
          it's suction, a weak atomic bond (Van der Waal's force), or a sticky
          film on the die face or planchet.

          I've seen a number of partial die caps, and cupping was weak to
          absent on all of them. Which isn't to say that all such coins will
          be weakly cupped.

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Schemmer"
          <RichErrors@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I see NO evidence this coin adhered-to the Obverse die? Looks
          like
          > a dble struck off center, where this coin rested on top on a newly
          > fed in blank planchet. I see no where near enough cupping that
          would
          > have caused some type of suction to adhere this coin to the Obverse
          > die.. No cupping of the coin either?? I await to hear your
          thoughts
          > Mike..
          >
          > Thanx
          > Rich Schemmer
          > Rich Schemmer Error Coins
          > http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php-- In
          > errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Bolton"
          > <travisbolton543@> wrote:
          > >
          > > wow that's a really a neat one Mike. It's cool that the obverse
          > shows
          > > no signs of a double strike at all, that I noticed anyway.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
          Diamond"
          > > <mdia1@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy
          It
          > > Now
          > > > purchase:
          > > >
          > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
          > ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
          > > >
          > > > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck
          on
          > > both
          > > > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck
          into
          > > the
          > > > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face.
          It
          > > also
          > > > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the
          underlying
          > > coin.
          > > > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the
          die
          > > > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
          > > >
          > > > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already,
          but
          > I
          > > > can't resist a bargain.
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Mike Diamond
          It s a slightly cupped, uncentered broadstrike with split-line doubling. The copper plating has split in parallel with Lincoln s profile. So the seller s
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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            It's a slightly cupped, uncentered broadstrike with split-line
            doubling. The copper plating has split in parallel with Lincoln's
            profile.

            So the seller's description was basically correct.

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, whitetumbleweed
            <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > I bought this a month ago from the same seller.
            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160017539251
            > It is cupped.
            > I hope he didn't catch all the errors on this one also. Did he?
          • ibcooleyes
            Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of the large coin rolling
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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              Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
              found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
              the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding such
              coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.



              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
              <mdia1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here's a partial die cap that I snapped up for $11 with a Buy It
              Now
              > purchase:
              >
              > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160026180355
              >
              > The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die struck on
              both
              > faces). The coin adhered to the obverse die and was struck into
              the
              > next planchet. This smeared the design on the reverse face. It
              also
              > left an "aligned brockage" on the obverse face of the underlying
              coin.
              > In other words, the brockage would have been aligned with the die
              > struck design on the reverse face of the bottom coin.
              >
              > I've got a few such errors already in my collection already, but I
              > can't resist a bargain.
              >
            • Mike Diamond
              In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting houses (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn bags are out these
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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                In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting houses
                (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn
                bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic bags".

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                <no_reply@...> wrote:
                >
                > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
                > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
                > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding such
                > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
              • Error Coins
                This auction: http://tinyurl.com/m42t2 APPEARS to be 2 reverse dies. I ve owned the one with the Indian head on one side and one of these reverses shows the
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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                  This auction:

                  http://tinyurl.com/m42t2

                  APPEARS to be 2 reverse dies. I've owned the one with the Indian head on one
                  side and one of these reverses shows the aftermath of a crash with this
                  obverse.

                  Assuming these pictures are correct - is this a known CWT?

                  Later.....
                  Steve
                • ibcooleyes
                  So what you are saying these type errors are found in these hug ballistic bags . and no where else ? And these huge ballistic bags are where ? How may
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 4, 2006
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                    So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                    hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                    bags" are where ?

                    How may people that are associated with this forum are involved with
                    the u s mint ?.






                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                    <mdia1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting
                    houses
                    > (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-sewn
                    > bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic bags".
                    >
                    > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                    > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they always
                    > > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one of
                    > > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at finding
                    such
                    > > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
                    >
                  • Rich Schemmer
                    You would have a better chance getting the Stealth secrets from the US Gov t, than to expect an error dealer to give up his error sources ... LOL ... with ...
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 5, 2006
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                      You would have a better chance getting the Stealth secrets from the
                      US Gov't, than to expect an error dealer to give up his error
                      sources ... LOL

                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                      <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                      > hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                      > bags" are where ?
                      >
                      > How may people that are associated with this forum are involved
                      with
                      > the u s mint ?.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Diamond"
                      > <mdia1@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > In days past, familiar sources included mint-sewn bags, counting
                      > houses
                      > > (incl. armored car services), and Federal Reserve banks. Mint-
                      sewn
                      > > bags are out these days since they switched to huge "ballistic
                      bags".
                      > >
                      > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                      > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Rookie question: On these and all other such errors are they
                      always
                      > > > found in mint bags, rolls or do you have to know someone at one
                      of
                      > > > the large coin rolling companies that have first dibs at
                      finding
                      > such
                      > > > coins ?? I know this coin wouldn't fit in a roll.
                      > >
                      >
                    • Mike Diamond
                      As best as I can recall, the ballistic bags are shipped directly to armored car services and possibly Federal Reserve Banks. Unless you have contacts in
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 5, 2006
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                        As best as I can recall, the ballistic bags are shipped directly to
                        armored car services and possibly Federal Reserve Banks. Unless you
                        have contacts in either place, you're pretty much out of luck, at
                        least when it comes to grossly deformed coins. The government has
                        clamped down on the release of defective coins in the rare event that
                        some actually get past increasingly stringent quality control
                        technology.

                        Error coins that have a normal or near-normal diameter can still be
                        found in rolls.

                        There are no mint employees among our membership, to my knowledge.

                        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, ibcooleyes
                        <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > So what you are saying these type errors are found in these
                        > hug "ballistic bags". and no where else ? And these huge "ballistic
                        > bags" are where ?
                        >
                        > How may people that are associated with this forum are involved
                        with
                        > the u s mint ?.
                      • Michael
                        One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It s a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 12, 2009
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                          One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It's a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:

                          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230384944656

                          Notice how the reverse design is expanded and distorted. The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die-struck on both faces). The coin clung to the obverse (hammer) die and was struck into the next planchet fed in beneath it. After that it fell off.

                          I suspect this specimen escaped the notice of most bidders (they often do) as it didn't cost me much.
                        • Jon Sullivan
                          I ve been able to cherrypick these several times myself. Seems like most people don t know what they have or don t know about the error type itself. Great
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 12, 2009
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                            I've been able to cherrypick these several times myself. Seems like most people don't know what they have or don't know about the error type itself. Great find!
                            
                            Jon
                            
                             
                            
                            On Monday, October 12, 2009, at 06:57PM, "Michael" <mdia1@...> wrote: >
                             

                            One of these shows up every once in awhile on eBay. It's a partial (i.e. off-center) obverse die cap:

                            http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=23038494465 6

                            Notice how the reverse design is expanded and distorted. The first strike was an ordinary off-center strike (die-struck on both faces). The coin clung to the obverse (hammer) die and was struck into the next planchet fed in beneath it. After that it fell off.

                            I suspect this specimen escaped the notice of most bidders (they often do) as it didn't cost me much.

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