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"Spadone" Double Struck Cents

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  • fred_weinberg
    Sean, you re right - all three of them are counterfiet. They are what I ve called Spadone fakes - I m not saying that he made them, but such items (lots of
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 11, 2005
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      Sean, you're right - all three of them are counterfiet.

      They are what I've called "Spadone" fakes - I'm not saying
      that he made them, but such items (lots of 'em !) are
      pictured in all of the Editions of his error books from the
      early-mid 1960's.....I don't know the source of them, but
      they were well dissected and discussed by the local error
      clubs, and explained to me by Mort Goodman.

      Almost all multi-struck coins in Spadone's book are N.G.,
      and he also "highlighted" many die-cracks and other errors
      to make them look good in the photos that are in the book.

      It's possible Al is bidding on them to keep as reference
      items AS N.G. specimens....I have a group of such items,
      and other silver quarters and halves, made in the mid and
      late 60's, that are also counterfiet - I add them to my
      special corner of the safe as I run across them in collections
      and at shows.....


      Fred

      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      >
      > I have the picture here in front of me. I also just received this
      > week my copy of Robert's book on SLQ errors, but I don't have the
      > picture of the coin from that reference with me. I will say the
      shape
      > of the second strike looks odd beneath the olive branch, almost as
      if
      > the second die wasn't round. However, looking at the weakness at
      the
      > edge of the other single off-center strikes, this coin doesn't
      stand
      > out to me as an obvious fake.
      >
      > To be honest, Allan, I have more of a problem with the
      authenticity of
      > those eBay double and triple struck Wheat cents you're bidding on.
      > None of them show any collar scars at the edge of the off-center
      > strikes. I also remember mike posting some fake multi-struck cents
      > from around that same time period (late 1950s or maybe the early
      1960s).
      >
      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734116
      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734118
      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734125
      >
      >
      > Sean Reynolds
      >
      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, alscoins
      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > The reverse is not pictured. But, no one sees anything wrong
      with
      > > that double strike? Especially the 2nd striking? Compare the
      letters
      > > showing from each strike along with the other detail.
      > >
      > > Allan
      > > http://www.alscoins.com
      > >
      > > --- In
      errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
      > > <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Exactly Allan!
      > > >
      > > > When I brought up the fact the Pollard Peters colorlaiden,
      error
      > > > laiden, way~out SLQ errors amoung other wacky errors pictured
      in
      > > an
      > > > auction that DID NOT happen. Nobody said a thing when I
      mentioned
      > > > that it did not happen. All I know is I heard that error
      laiden
      > > > pollard peters color spread of errors got pulled "due to
      numerous
      > > > counterfits pictured" of which at least one of the odd SLQs
      errors
      > > > was plated. Possibly two, but one for sure: The double
      strike.
      > > >
      > > > Maybe one of the Forum's numerous Error Gurus can add info to
      what
      > > > was told to me a long time ago concerning the Pollard Peters
      Error
      > > > auction from the mid late 1970's.
      > > >
      > > > Lindy
      > > >
      > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, alscoins
      > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I scanned through the new CONECA's Errorscope with all those
      > > > Standing
      > > > > Liberty quarter errors. But how many of those are
      counterfeit?
      > > > >
      > > > > Allan
      > > > > http://www.alscoins.com
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • seanqueue
      Thanks, Fred, I assumed Allan was bidding on them to get them off the market or as reference examples. I hope I didn t imply that Allan thought they were
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 11, 2005
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        Thanks, Fred,

        I assumed Allan was bidding on them to get them off the market or as
        reference examples. I hope I didn't imply that Allan thought they
        were legitimate errors, I respect his knowledge too much to think he
        could be fooled by those.

        Back to the coin that started this thread, have any of the members
        here ever examined this coin in person (I'm thinking of Rich Schemmer
        in particular)? I hate to make declarations about authenticity based
        on a grainy photo of one side of a coin. I will say that a couple of
        the clips shown in Knauss' book are obvious post-Mint damage, and that
        does make me wonder about using his opinion as the final authority.

        Sean Reynolds

        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Sean, you're right - all three of them are counterfiet.
        >
        > They are what I've called "Spadone" fakes - I'm not saying
        > that he made them, but such items (lots of 'em !) are
        > pictured in all of the Editions of his error books from the
        > early-mid 1960's.....I don't know the source of them, but
        > they were well dissected and discussed by the local error
        > clubs, and explained to me by Mort Goodman.
        >
        > Almost all multi-struck coins in Spadone's book are N.G.,
        > and he also "highlighted" many die-cracks and other errors
        > to make them look good in the photos that are in the book.
        >
        > It's possible Al is bidding on them to keep as reference
        > items AS N.G. specimens....I have a group of such items,
        > and other silver quarters and halves, made in the mid and
        > late 60's, that are also counterfiet - I add them to my
        > special corner of the safe as I run across them in collections
        > and at shows.....
      • fred_weinberg
        Sean, sorry but I must have missed the beginning of the thread. What SLQ are we talking about, and can you link it so I can view it.....yes, there were
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 11, 2005
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          Sean, sorry but I must have missed the beginning of the thread.

          What SLQ are we talking about, and can you link it so I can
          view it.....yes, there were numerous counterfiet SLQ's that
          came out in "collections" 25 years ago.....

          In fact, there is still one coin that is controversial - most
          error dealers think it's NG, but some regular coin dealers
          (well respected) believe it's genuine....I don't want to say
          what coin it is at this time......

          Fred

          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks, Fred,
          >
          > I assumed Allan was bidding on them to get them off the market or
          as
          > reference examples. I hope I didn't imply that Allan thought they
          > were legitimate errors, I respect his knowledge too much to think
          he
          > could be fooled by those.
          >
          > Back to the coin that started this thread, have any of the members
          > here ever examined this coin in person (I'm thinking of Rich
          Schemmer
          > in particular)? I hate to make declarations about authenticity
          based
          > on a grainy photo of one side of a coin. I will say that a couple
          of
          > the clips shown in Knauss' book are obvious post-Mint damage, and
          that
          > does make me wonder about using his opinion as the final authority.
          >
          > Sean Reynolds
          >
          > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Sean, you're right - all three of them are counterfiet.
          > >
          > > They are what I've called "Spadone" fakes - I'm not saying
          > > that he made them, but such items (lots of 'em !) are
          > > pictured in all of the Editions of his error books from the
          > > early-mid 1960's.....I don't know the source of them, but
          > > they were well dissected and discussed by the local error
          > > clubs, and explained to me by Mort Goodman.
          > >
          > > Almost all multi-struck coins in Spadone's book are N.G.,
          > > and he also "highlighted" many die-cracks and other errors
          > > to make them look good in the photos that are in the book.
          > >
          > > It's possible Al is bidding on them to keep as reference
          > > items AS N.G. specimens....I have a group of such items,
          > > and other silver quarters and halves, made in the mid and
          > > late 60's, that are also counterfiet - I add them to my
          > > special corner of the safe as I run across them in collections
          > > and at shows.....
          >
        • seanqueue
          Fred, Allan was questioning the authenticity of the double-struck 1929-S Standing Liberty Quarter pictured in the current Errorscope and also in Robert Knauss
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 11, 2005
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            Fred,

            Allan was questioning the authenticity of the double-struck 1929-S
            Standing Liberty Quarter pictured in the current Errorscope and also
            in Robert Knauss' book. It has a second 75% off-center strike at 9:00.

            I think I know the coin you allude to in your second comment, I think
            it certified by a second-tier TPG and sold in a major auction within
            the last 3-4 years.

            Sean Reynolds

            --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Sean, sorry but I must have missed the beginning of the thread.
            >
            > What SLQ are we talking about, and can you link it so I can
            > view it.....yes, there were numerous counterfiet SLQ's that
            > came out in "collections" 25 years ago.....
            >
            > In fact, there is still one coin that is controversial - most
            > error dealers think it's NG, but some regular coin dealers
            > (well respected) believe it's genuine....I don't want to say
            > what coin it is at this time......
            >
            > Fred
            >
            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
            > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks, Fred,
            > >
            > > I assumed Allan was bidding on them to get them off the market or
            > as
            > > reference examples. I hope I didn't imply that Allan thought they
            > > were legitimate errors, I respect his knowledge too much to think
            > he
            > > could be fooled by those.
            > >
            > > Back to the coin that started this thread, have any of the members
            > > here ever examined this coin in person (I'm thinking of Rich
            > Schemmer
            > > in particular)? I hate to make declarations about authenticity
            > based
            > > on a grainy photo of one side of a coin. I will say that a couple
            > of
            > > the clips shown in Knauss' book are obvious post-Mint damage, and
            > that
            > > does make me wonder about using his opinion as the final authority.
            > >
            > > Sean Reynolds
            > >
            > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg
            > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Sean, you're right - all three of them are counterfiet.
            > > >
            > > > They are what I've called "Spadone" fakes - I'm not saying
            > > > that he made them, but such items (lots of 'em !) are
            > > > pictured in all of the Editions of his error books from the
            > > > early-mid 1960's.....I don't know the source of them, but
            > > > they were well dissected and discussed by the local error
            > > > clubs, and explained to me by Mort Goodman.
            > > >
            > > > Almost all multi-struck coins in Spadone's book are N.G.,
            > > > and he also "highlighted" many die-cracks and other errors
            > > > to make them look good in the photos that are in the book.
            > > >
            > > > It's possible Al is bidding on them to keep as reference
            > > > items AS N.G. specimens....I have a group of such items,
            > > > and other silver quarters and halves, made in the mid and
            > > > late 60's, that are also counterfiet - I add them to my
            > > > special corner of the safe as I run across them in collections
            > > > and at shows.....
            > >
            >
          • fred_weinberg
            OK, now I see it...it s Page 297 in the Knauss book, and pictured in the current ES. I do not believe this coin is a genuine double strike......... Fred ...
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 11, 2005
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              OK, now I see it...it's Page 297 in the Knauss book, and pictured
              in the current ES.

              I do not believe this coin is a genuine double strike.........

              Fred



              > Fred,
              >
              > Allan was questioning the authenticity of the double-struck 1929-S
              > Standing Liberty Quarter pictured in the current Errorscope and
              also
              > in Robert Knauss' book. It has a second 75% off-center strike at
              9:00.
              >
              > I think I know the coin you allude to in your second comment, I
              think
              > it certified by a second-tier TPG and sold in a major auction
              within
              > the last 3-4 years.
              >
              > Sean Reynolds
              >
              > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, fred_weinberg
              > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Sean, sorry but I must have missed the beginning of the thread.
              > >
              > > What SLQ are we talking about, and can you link it so I can
              > > view it.....yes, there were numerous counterfiet SLQ's that
              > > came out in "collections" 25 years ago.....
              > >
              > > In fact, there is still one coin that is controversial - most
              > > error dealers think it's NG, but some regular coin dealers
              > > (well respected) believe it's genuine....I don't want to say
              > > what coin it is at this time......
              > >
              > > Fred
              > >
              > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
              > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Thanks, Fred,
              > > >
              > > > I assumed Allan was bidding on them to get them off the market
              or
              > > as
              > > > reference examples. I hope I didn't imply that Allan thought
              they
              > > > were legitimate errors, I respect his knowledge too much to
              think
              > > he
              > > > could be fooled by those.
              > > >
              > > > Back to the coin that started this thread, have any of the
              members
              > > > here ever examined this coin in person (I'm thinking of Rich
              > > Schemmer
              > > > in particular)? I hate to make declarations about
              authenticity
              > > based
              > > > on a grainy photo of one side of a coin. I will say that a
              couple
              > > of
              > > > the clips shown in Knauss' book are obvious post-Mint damage,
              and
              > > that
              > > > does make me wonder about using his opinion as the final
              authority.
              > > >
              > > > Sean Reynolds
              > > >
              > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
              fred_weinberg
              > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Sean, you're right - all three of them are counterfiet.
              > > > >
              > > > > They are what I've called "Spadone" fakes - I'm not saying
              > > > > that he made them, but such items (lots of 'em !) are
              > > > > pictured in all of the Editions of his error books from the
              > > > > early-mid 1960's.....I don't know the source of them, but
              > > > > they were well dissected and discussed by the local error
              > > > > clubs, and explained to me by Mort Goodman.
              > > > >
              > > > > Almost all multi-struck coins in Spadone's book are N.G.,
              > > > > and he also "highlighted" many die-cracks and other errors
              > > > > to make them look good in the photos that are in the book.
              > > > >
              > > > > It's possible Al is bidding on them to keep as reference
              > > > > items AS N.G. specimens....I have a group of such items,
              > > > > and other silver quarters and halves, made in the mid and
              > > > > late 60's, that are also counterfiet - I add them to my
              > > > > special corner of the safe as I run across them in
              collections
              > > > > and at shows.....
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • alscoins
              None of those wheat cent double strikes are real. I m not bidding hundreds of dollars for them. But, they are collectible!!! Allan http://www.alscoins.com ...
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 11, 2005
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                None of those wheat cent double strikes are real. I'm not bidding
                hundreds of dollars for them. But, they are collectible!!!

                Allan
                http://www.alscoins.com

                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
                <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                >
                > I have the picture here in front of me. I also just received this
                > week my copy of Robert's book on SLQ errors, but I don't have the
                > picture of the coin from that reference with me. I will say the
                shape
                > of the second strike looks odd beneath the olive branch, almost as
                if
                > the second die wasn't round. However, looking at the weakness at
                the
                > edge of the other single off-center strikes, this coin doesn't
                stand
                > out to me as an obvious fake.
                >
                > To be honest, Allan, I have more of a problem with the
                authenticity of
                > those eBay double and triple struck Wheat cents you're bidding on.
                > None of them show any collar scars at the edge of the off-center
                > strikes. I also remember mike posting some fake multi-struck cents
                > from around that same time period (late 1950s or maybe the early
                1960s).
                >
                > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734116
                > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734118
                > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734125
                >
                >
                > Sean Reynolds
                >
                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, alscoins
                > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > The reverse is not pictured. But, no one sees anything wrong
                with
                > > that double strike? Especially the 2nd striking? Compare the
                letters
                > > showing from each strike along with the other detail.
                > >
                > > Allan
                > > http://www.alscoins.com
                > >
                > > --- In
                errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
                > > <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Exactly Allan!
                > > >
                > > > When I brought up the fact the Pollard Peters colorlaiden,
                error
                > > > laiden, way~out SLQ errors amoung other wacky errors pictured
                in
                > > an
                > > > auction that DID NOT happen. Nobody said a thing when I
                mentioned
                > > > that it did not happen. All I know is I heard that error
                laiden
                > > > pollard peters color spread of errors got pulled "due to
                numerous
                > > > counterfits pictured" of which at least one of the odd SLQs
                errors
                > > > was plated. Possibly two, but one for sure: The double
                strike.
                > > >
                > > > Maybe one of the Forum's numerous Error Gurus can add info to
                what
                > > > was told to me a long time ago concerning the Pollard Peters
                Error
                > > > auction from the mid late 1970's.
                > > >
                > > > Lindy
                > > >
                > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, alscoins
                > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I scanned through the new CONECA's Errorscope with all those
                > > > Standing
                > > > > Liberty quarter errors. But how many of those are
                counterfeit?
                > > > >
                > > > > Allan
                > > > > http://www.alscoins.com
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Rich Schemmer
                I collected Standing Liberty quarter errors for 20 years.. 90% of the SLQ s errors of Off Center Double Strikes and struck on 1c planchets were counterfiets
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 14, 2005
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                  I collected Standing Liberty quarter errors for 20 years.. 90% of the
                  SLQ's errors of Off Center Double Strikes and struck on 1c planchets
                  were counterfiets that I encountered.. & a few cast broadstrikes that
                  were badly made.. **never seen a bad Off Center (not that their
                  coundn't be 1)

                  Also seen a counterfiet die adjust strike on a Canadian silver planchet.


                  I can see NO collar marks on the d/s shown in this issue of the
                  Errorscope.. I don't like it (by this photo)

                  Thanx
                  Rich Schemmer
                  Rich Schemmer Error Coins
                  http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php
                • seanqueue
                  Woof. Check out what those fake wheat cent errors sold for - the triple struck coins went for over $330 each, and the double-struck 56 closed over $150.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 14, 2005
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                    Woof. Check out what those fake wheat cent errors sold for - the
                    triple struck coins went for over $330 each, and the double-struck '56
                    closed over $150.

                    Allan - I don't know any way around the effect I'm about to describe,
                    but do you ever worry that by bidding on those coins you inadvertnely
                    lent them an air of legitimacy which helped push the final price so
                    high?

                    I'm often very reluctant to bid on a clip I think is not legitimate
                    (which I will sometimes do for a reference example) only because I've
                    been around eBay long enough that I have some 'shadows' who recognize
                    my handle and assume I wouldn't be bidding on an error if it were not
                    real. At some point people just need to look out for themselves, but
                    I still hate feeling like I'm leading someone astray.

                    Sean Reynolds

                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, alscoins
                    <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > None of those wheat cent double strikes are real. I'm not bidding
                    > hundreds of dollars for them. But, they are collectible!!!
                    >
                    > Allan
                    > http://www.alscoins.com
                    >
                    > > To be honest, Allan, I have more of a problem with the
                    > authenticity of
                    > > those eBay double and triple struck Wheat cents you're bidding on.
                    > > None of them show any collar scars at the edge of the off-center
                    > > strikes. I also remember mike posting some fake multi-struck cents
                    > > from around that same time period (late 1950s or maybe the early
                    > 1960s).
                    > >
                    > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734116
                    > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734118
                    > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734125
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Sean Reynolds
                  • alscoins
                    Sean, I have followers. If I bid, they bid. This happens to all dealers. I almost notified the two bidders that the coins are counterfeit. But, the last time I
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 14, 2005
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                      Sean,

                      I have followers. If I bid, they bid. This happens to all dealers.

                      I almost notified the two bidders that the coins are counterfeit.
                      But, the last time I did this, the buyer jumped all over me then
                      notified the seller. I, therefore, stay out of it. (Try notifying
                      eBAy........GOOD LUCK!)

                      Did you notice that the 1951 & 1955 triple strikes looked like they
                      were struck from the same dies?)

                      Be very "watchful" when it comes to clips. Quite a few counterfeits
                      out there. (Some collectors know this, they will buy them for their
                      collection, just like you.)

                      There was a standing liberty quarter struck off center on a struck
                      off center cent. It was being shown to dealers a few years back at a
                      Long Beach Expo. The seller knew it was no good. But, would have
                      sold it for big money if anyone jumped. He was offered $800 from a
                      well known standing liberty dealer. We advised him to take it since
                      the dealer knew it was counterfeit. What do you think the dealer did
                      with this coin?

                      Allan
                      http://www.alscoins.com

                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, seanqueue
                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Woof. Check out what those fake wheat cent errors sold for - the
                      > triple struck coins went for over $330 each, and the double-
                      struck '56
                      > closed over $150.
                      >
                      > Allan - I don't know any way around the effect I'm about to
                      describe,
                      > but do you ever worry that by bidding on those coins you
                      inadvertnely
                      > lent them an air of legitimacy which helped push the final price so
                      > high?
                      >
                      > I'm often very reluctant to bid on a clip I think is not legitimate
                      > (which I will sometimes do for a reference example) only because
                      I've
                      > been around eBay long enough that I have some 'shadows' who
                      recognize
                      > my handle and assume I wouldn't be bidding on an error if it were
                      not
                      > real. At some point people just need to look out for themselves,
                      but
                      > I still hate feeling like I'm leading someone astray.
                      >
                      > Sean Reynolds
                      >
                      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, alscoins
                      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > None of those wheat cent double strikes are real. I'm not
                      bidding
                      > > hundreds of dollars for them. But, they are collectible!!!
                      > >
                      > > Allan
                      > > http://www.alscoins.com
                      > >
                      > > > To be honest, Allan, I have more of a problem with the
                      > > authenticity of
                      > > > those eBay double and triple struck Wheat cents you're bidding
                      on.
                      > > > None of them show any collar scars at the edge of the off-
                      center
                      > > > strikes. I also remember mike posting some fake multi-struck
                      cents
                      > > > from around that same time period (late 1950s or maybe the
                      early
                      > > 1960s).
                      > > >
                      > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734116
                      > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734118
                      > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350734125
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Sean Reynolds
                      >
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