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Re: $6500. bid for U.S. $1 Silver blank PCGS

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  • mdia1@aol.com
    I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do have a question about the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an upset proto-rim . At least the
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 4, 2005
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      I have no idea why the price is way up there.  I do have a question about the diagnosis, though.  The photo seems to show an upset "proto-rim".  At least the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type II" planchet.  Of course, this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and shadows cast by the insert.
       
      In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
      http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d

      Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500. plus 15% but I
      don't know why it's so high?

      Mike Byers
      http://mikebyers.com
       
    • byersnc
      Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are readily available at around $1000. so I still can t figure out why it s at $6500. Mike Byers
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 4, 2005
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        Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are readily available
        at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why it's at $6500.

        Mike Byers
        http://mikebyers.com





        --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, mdia1@a...
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do have a
        question about
        > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an upset "proto-
        rim". At least
        > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type II" planchet.
        Of course,
        > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and shadows cast
        by the
        > insert.
        >
        > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central Standard Time,
        > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
        >
        > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500. plus 15% but
        I
        > don't know why it's so high?
        >
        > Mike Byers
        > http://mikebyers.com
        >
      • fred_weinberg
        I saw this yesterday also, and wondered what was going on. I guess that s why I sold my NGC Blank Dollar this morning for $1,275............ Thank you Dallas
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 4, 2005
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          I saw this yesterday also, and wondered what was going on.

          I guess that's why I sold my NGC Blank Dollar this morning
          for $1,275............

          Thank you Dallas

          Fred


          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are readily available
          > at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why it's at $6500.
          >
          > Mike Byers
          > http://mikebyers.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, mdia1@a...
          > wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do have a
          > question about
          > > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an upset "proto-
          > rim". At least
          > > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type II"
          planchet.
          > Of course,
          > > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and shadows
          cast
          > by the
          > > insert.
          > >
          > > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central Standard Time,
          > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
          > >
          > > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
          > >
          > > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500. plus 15%
          but
          > I
          > > don't know why it's so high?
          > >
          > > Mike Byers
          > > http://mikebyers.com
          > >
          >
        • Rafael Delgado
          Is shill bidding possible on these non-internet auctions? I have no idea whatsoever and would like to know. Rafael ... __________________________________
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 5, 2005
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            Is shill bidding possible on these non-internet auctions? I
            have no idea whatsoever and would like to know.
            Rafael

            --- byersnc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            > Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are readily
            > available
            > at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why it's at
            > $6500.
            >
            > Mike Byers
            > http://mikebyers.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
            > mdia1@a...
            > wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do
            > have a
            > question about
            > > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an
            > upset "proto-
            > rim". At least
            > > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type II"
            > planchet.
            > Of course,
            > > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and
            > shadows cast
            > by the
            > > insert.
            > >
            > > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central
            > Standard Time,
            > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
            > >
            > > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
            > >
            > > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500.
            > plus 15% but
            > I
            > > don't know why it's so high?
            > >
            > > Mike Byers
            > > http://mikebyers.com
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
            Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
            http://farechase.yahoo.com
          • byersnc
            NO. Because there was no reserve, other times the reserve is met. Meaning that the coin MUST be bought. Shill bidding occurs when there is a reserve which is
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 5, 2005
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              NO. Because there was no reserve, other times the reserve is met.
              Meaning that the coin MUST be bought. Shill bidding occurs when
              there is a reserve which is not met, which allows shill bidding to
              run it up, hoping someone bids the reserve. But when you see the
              auction that has no reserve or the reserve has been met, the coin is
              in play, and the auction is real.

              Mike Byers
              http://mikebyers.com






              --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Rafael Delgado
              <my_errors@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Is shill bidding possible on these non-internet auctions? I
              > have no idea whatsoever and would like to know.
              > Rafael
              >
              > --- byersnc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              >
              > > Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are readily
              > > available
              > > at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why it's at
              > > $6500.
              > >
              > > Mike Byers
              > > http://mikebyers.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
              > > mdia1@a...
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do
              > > have a
              > > question about
              > > > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an
              > > upset "proto-
              > > rim". At least
              > > > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type II"
              > > planchet.
              > > Of course,
              > > > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and
              > > shadows cast
              > > by the
              > > > insert.
              > > >
              > > > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central
              > > Standard Time,
              > > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
              > > >
              > > > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
              > > >
              > > > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500.
              > > plus 15% but
              > > I
              > > > don't know why it's so high?
              > > >
              > > > Mike Byers
              > > > http://mikebyers.com
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
              > http://farechase.yahoo.com
              >
            • byersnc
              This applies to the real auction houses. Ebay is different. In the example that I gave in my previous post, on ebay it is possible to have met the reserve, or
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 5, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                This applies to the real auction houses. Ebay is different. In the
                example that I gave in my previous post, on ebay it is possible to
                have met the reserve, or have no reserve, but shill bidding still
                occured. The seller continues to have someone run it up (past the
                reserve or higher with no reserve) to see how much he can run up the
                highest bidder. Then if he isn't happy before the end of the
                auction with the price, the seller CAN CLOSE the auction and cancel
                all of the bids. That should not be allowed and allows for games,
                fraud and is illegal in my humble opinion.

                Mike Byers
                http://mikebyers.com









                --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
                <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                >
                > NO. Because there was no reserve, other times the reserve is met.
                > Meaning that the coin MUST be bought. Shill bidding occurs when
                > there is a reserve which is not met, which allows shill bidding to
                > run it up, hoping someone bids the reserve. But when you see the
                > auction that has no reserve or the reserve has been met, the coin
                is
                > in play, and the auction is real.
                >
                > Mike Byers
                > http://mikebyers.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Rafael
                Delgado
                > <my_errors@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Is shill bidding possible on these non-internet auctions? I
                > > have no idea whatsoever and would like to know.
                > > Rafael
                > >
                > > --- byersnc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                > >
                > > > Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are readily
                > > > available
                > > > at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why it's at
                > > > $6500.
                > > >
                > > > Mike Byers
                > > > http://mikebyers.com
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                > > > mdia1@a...
                > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do
                > > > have a
                > > > question about
                > > > > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an
                > > > upset "proto-
                > > > rim". At least
                > > > > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type II"
                > > > planchet.
                > > > Of course,
                > > > > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and
                > > > shadows cast
                > > > by the
                > > > > insert.
                > > > >
                > > > > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central
                > > > Standard Time,
                > > > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                > > > >
                > > > > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
                > > > >
                > > > > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500.
                > > > plus 15% but
                > > > I
                > > > > don't know why it's so high?
                > > > >
                > > > > Mike Byers
                > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________
                > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                > > http://farechase.yahoo.com
                > >
                >
              • Rafael Delgado
                Thanks Rafael ... __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 5, 2005
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                  Thanks
                  Rafael

                  --- byersnc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  > This applies to the real auction houses. Ebay is
                  > different. In the
                  > example that I gave in my previous post, on ebay it is
                  > possible to
                  > have met the reserve, or have no reserve, but shill
                  > bidding still
                  > occured. The seller continues to have someone run it up
                  > (past the
                  > reserve or higher with no reserve) to see how much he can
                  > run up the
                  > highest bidder. Then if he isn't happy before the end of
                  > the
                  > auction with the price, the seller CAN CLOSE the auction
                  > and cancel
                  > all of the bids. That should not be allowed and allows
                  > for games,
                  > fraud and is illegal in my humble opinion.
                  >
                  > Mike Byers
                  > http://mikebyers.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                  > byersnc
                  > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > NO. Because there was no reserve, other times the
                  > reserve is met.
                  > > Meaning that the coin MUST be bought. Shill bidding
                  > occurs when
                  > > there is a reserve which is not met, which allows shill
                  > bidding to
                  > > run it up, hoping someone bids the reserve. But when
                  > you see the
                  > > auction that has no reserve or the reserve has been
                  > met, the coin
                  > is
                  > > in play, and the auction is real.
                  > >
                  > > Mike Byers
                  > > http://mikebyers.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                  > Rafael
                  > Delgado
                  > > <my_errors@y...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Is shill bidding possible on these non-internet
                  > auctions? I
                  > > > have no idea whatsoever and would like to know.
                  > > > Rafael
                  > > >
                  > > > --- byersnc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are
                  > readily
                  > > > > available
                  > > > > at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why
                  > it's at
                  > > > > $6500.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Mike Byers
                  > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In
                  > errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > > > mdia1@a...
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I
                  > do
                  > > > > have a
                  > > > > question about
                  > > > > > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show
                  > an
                  > > > > upset "proto-
                  > > > > rim". At least
                  > > > > > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type
                  > II"
                  > > > > planchet.
                  > > > > Of course,
                  > > > > > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting
                  > and
                  > > > > shadows cast
                  > > > > by the
                  > > > > > insert.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central
                  > > > > Standard Time,
                  > > > > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at
                  > $6500.
                  > > > > plus 15% but
                  > > > > I
                  > > > > > don't know why it's so high?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Mike Byers
                  > > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > __________________________________
                  > > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one
                  > click.
                  > > > http://farechase.yahoo.com
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >





                  __________________________________
                  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                • byersnc
                  Hi Lindy. Here are some answers: ##### NOW, consignors may bid on their lots, BUT if they buy it they must pay the regular buyers fee, not the buy-back
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 6, 2005
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                    Hi Lindy. Here are some answers:

                    ##### NOW, consignors may bid on their lots, BUT if they buy it
                    they must pay the regular buyers' fee, not the buy-back free pre-
                    arranged if their lot does not sell. This prevents them from running
                    it up because it hurts financially to pay the buyers fee to get your
                    own coin back. Also- afterwards in the prices realized, the unsold
                    lots either say not sold, there is no price, or they are not listed.

                    ##### Most of the time, the discretion exercised by the auction
                    houses in regards to the possibility of eliminating a
                    bid....happens BEFORE not afterwards. Those clauses that you are
                    referring to is a legal warning that is rarely enforced as long as
                    legitimate good funds are used and the bid was properly executed. If
                    the auction house finds out that the bidder was 5 years old using
                    his dad's computer from Bogota Columbia and wanted to wire funds
                    from a Swiss bank account in his dog's name then yes, his bid will
                    be voided for many obvious reasons.

                    ##### Yes, absolutely bid. The B and M Baltimore ANA mint error
                    section prices realized...was the rip of the century (for buying
                    errors in a public auction).

                    Mike Byers
                    http://mikebyers.com








                    --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
                    <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Maybe you could clear up misunderstandings I may have Mike Byers.
                    >
                    > I've always thought the major coin auction houses allow the
                    > consigner to bid on their own lots. This was pointed out to me
                    years
                    > ago by a major error collector/dealer, that consigners DO bid up
                    > their own items.
                    >
                    > I also thought that the auction house can decide after the close
                    > whether they want to honor the winning bid on each and every lot.
                    > This is what I read when scrolling thru the major coin auction
                    house
                    > rules, when they piggy back their auctions at ebay.
                    >
                    > Due to the deposit to bid, the buyers charge, no credit cards, no
                    > simple returns, the winning big that may not be honored:
                    >
                    > I never bid, ever.
                    >
                    > I did consider signing up it bid when Bill Fivaz cosigned his
                    errors
                    > to a major auction house. But I did not.
                    >
                    > When I see what Fivaz's items closed for and what they immediately
                    > got marked up for re-sale, maybe I should participate inspite of
                    all
                    > the rules and extra fees?
                    >
                    > Lindy
                    >
                    > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
                    > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > This applies to the real auction houses. Ebay is different. In
                    the
                    > > example that I gave in my previous post, on ebay it is possible
                    to
                    > > have met the reserve, or have no reserve, but shill bidding
                    still
                    > > occured. The seller continues to have someone run it up (past
                    the
                    > > reserve or higher with no reserve) to see how much he can run up
                    > the
                    > > highest bidder. Then if he isn't happy before the end of the
                    > > auction with the price, the seller CAN CLOSE the auction and
                    > cancel
                    > > all of the bids. That should not be allowed and allows for
                    games,
                    > > fraud and is illegal in my humble opinion.
                    > >
                    > > Mike Byers
                    > > http://mikebyers.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
                    > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > NO. Because there was no reserve, other times the reserve is
                    > met.
                    > > > Meaning that the coin MUST be bought. Shill bidding occurs
                    when
                    > > > there is a reserve which is not met, which allows shill
                    bidding
                    > to
                    > > > run it up, hoping someone bids the reserve. But when you see
                    the
                    > > > auction that has no reserve or the reserve has been met, the
                    > coin
                    > > is
                    > > > in play, and the auction is real.
                    > > >
                    > > > Mike Byers
                    > > > http://mikebyers.com
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, Rafael
                    > > Delgado
                    > > > <my_errors@y...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Is shill bidding possible on these non-internet auctions? I
                    > > > > have no idea whatsoever and would like to know.
                    > > > > Rafael
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- byersnc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are readily
                    > > > > > available
                    > > > > > at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why it's at
                    > > > > > $6500.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Mike Byers
                    > > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > > > mdia1@a...
                    > > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do
                    > > > > > have a
                    > > > > > question about
                    > > > > > > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an
                    > > > > > upset "proto-
                    > > > > > rim". At least
                    > > > > > > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type II"
                    > > > > > planchet.
                    > > > > > Of course,
                    > > > > > > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and
                    > > > > > shadows cast
                    > > > > > by the
                    > > > > > > insert.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central
                    > > > > > Standard Time,
                    > > > > > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500.
                    > > > > > plus 15% but
                    > > > > > I
                    > > > > > > don't know why it's so high?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Mike Byers
                    > > > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > __________________________________
                    > > > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                    > > > > http://farechase.yahoo.com
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • byersnc
                    Lindy- if a consignor buys it back live, he pays the buyers commission- just like a customer who is trying to BUY the coin. If the consignor sits on the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 6, 2005
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                      Lindy- if a consignor buys it back live, he pays the buyers
                      commission- just like a customer who is trying to BUY the coin. If
                      the consignor sits on the sidelines and does not bid live but has a
                      reserve and it does NOT sell, he pays the pre-arranged buy back fee
                      agreed upon between the consignor and the auction house.

                      This does not of course, guarantee that there aren't ways to beat
                      the system and games to play. If a consignor has a reserve of
                      $100,000 he might have his friend bid it up to $95,000 and hope the
                      next bidder hits the reserve of $100,000. There is no way to prevent
                      this.

                      There also may be private arrangements between auction houses and
                      their biggest consignors which enables the consignor to pay a lesser
                      buyers fee if he bids live and buys it back.

                      Speaking of games etc... Heritage Auctions is 100% straight. An
                      example:

                      At the Pittsburgh ANA I had a table but finished early. I left my
                      Heritage bids with Leo for the error part of the sale on Saturday
                      because I was already back home in California. I spent well over
                      $100,000 and bought the Buffalo 5c struck off center on the cent,
                      the Indian Cent struck on the half dime blank uniface, the double
                      struck $20 Liberty ANACS and the Indian Cent struck on a 3 cent
                      blank NGC, as well as others. My bid for the Indian Cent struck on
                      the half dime blank was $25,000 and I got it for under $10,000.
                      Heritage is as straight as they come in their auctions and everyone
                      knows it.

                      Mike Byers
                      http://mikebyers.com







                      --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
                      <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I thought over the years the auction house rules for consigners
                      > bidding up and possibly buying back their own lots had more
                      > favorable fees. I thought that when they bought back their coins
                      > their bid would show up as a sell in prices realized. Lets say the
                      > consigner wins high bid on their coin for $10,000 but then only
                      pay
                      > 3% or so for the fees. And the $10k shows up as an actual sale in
                      > prices realized.
                      >
                      > Please clarify Mike Byers if I am misinformed as I've always
                      > discounted the "prices" garnered at major coin auction houses due
                      to
                      > hidden consigner bidding and hidden consigner buybacks.
                      >
                      > Lindy
                      >
                      > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
                      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Lindy. Here are some answers:
                      > >
                      > > ##### NOW, consignors may bid on their lots, BUT if they buy
                      > it
                      > > they must pay the regular buyers' fee, not the buy-back free pre-
                      > > arranged if their lot does not sell. This prevents them from
                      > running
                      > > it up because it hurts financially to pay the buyers fee to get
                      > your
                      > > own coin back. Also- afterwards in the prices realized, the
                      unsold
                      > > lots either say not sold, there is no price, or they are not
                      > listed.
                      > >
                      > > ##### Most of the time, the discretion exercised by the
                      > auction
                      > > houses in regards to the possibility of eliminating a
                      > > bid....happens BEFORE not afterwards. Those clauses that you are
                      > > referring to is a legal warning that is rarely enforced as long
                      as
                      > > legitimate good funds are used and the bid was properly
                      executed.
                      > If
                      > > the auction house finds out that the bidder was 5 years old
                      using
                      > > his dad's computer from Bogota Columbia and wanted to wire funds
                      > > from a Swiss bank account in his dog's name then yes, his bid
                      will
                      > > be voided for many obvious reasons.
                      > >
                      > > ##### Yes, absolutely bid. The B and M Baltimore ANA mint
                      > error
                      > > section prices realized...was the rip of the century (for buying
                      > > errors in a public auction).
                      > >
                      > > Mike Byers
                      > > http://mikebyers.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In
                      errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, "mrlindy2000"
                      > > <adkinstone@a...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Maybe you could clear up misunderstandings I may have Mike
                      Byers.
                      > > >
                      > > > I've always thought the major coin auction houses allow the
                      > > > consigner to bid on their own lots. This was pointed out to me
                      > > years
                      > > > ago by a major error collector/dealer, that consigners DO bid
                      up
                      > > > their own items.
                      > > >
                      > > > I also thought that the auction house can decide after the
                      close
                      > > > whether they want to honor the winning bid on each and every
                      > lot.
                      > > > This is what I read when scrolling thru the major coin auction
                      > > house
                      > > > rules, when they piggy back their auctions at ebay.
                      > > >
                      > > > Due to the deposit to bid, the buyers charge, no credit cards,
                      > no
                      > > > simple returns, the winning big that may not be honored:
                      > > >
                      > > > I never bid, ever.
                      > > >
                      > > > I did consider signing up it bid when Bill Fivaz cosigned his
                      > > errors
                      > > > to a major auction house. But I did not.
                      > > >
                      > > > When I see what Fivaz's items closed for and what they
                      > immediately
                      > > > got marked up for re-sale, maybe I should participate inspite
                      of
                      > > all
                      > > > the rules and extra fees?
                      > > >
                      > > > Lindy
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
                      > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > This applies to the real auction houses. Ebay is different.
                      In
                      > > the
                      > > > > example that I gave in my previous post, on ebay it is
                      > possible
                      > > to
                      > > > > have met the reserve, or have no reserve, but shill bidding
                      > > still
                      > > > > occured. The seller continues to have someone run it up
                      (past
                      > > the
                      > > > > reserve or higher with no reserve) to see how much he can
                      run
                      > up
                      > > > the
                      > > > > highest bidder. Then if he isn't happy before the end of the
                      > > > > auction with the price, the seller CAN CLOSE the auction and
                      > > > cancel
                      > > > > all of the bids. That should not be allowed and allows for
                      > > games,
                      > > > > fraud and is illegal in my humble opinion.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Mike Byers
                      > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
                      > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > NO. Because there was no reserve, other times the reserve
                      is
                      > > > met.
                      > > > > > Meaning that the coin MUST be bought. Shill bidding occurs
                      > > when
                      > > > > > there is a reserve which is not met, which allows shill
                      > > bidding
                      > > > to
                      > > > > > run it up, hoping someone bids the reserve. But when you
                      see
                      > > the
                      > > > > > auction that has no reserve or the reserve has been met,
                      the
                      > > > coin
                      > > > > is
                      > > > > > in play, and the auction is real.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Mike Byers
                      > > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                      Rafael
                      > > > > Delgado
                      > > > > > <my_errors@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Is shill bidding possible on these non-internet
                      auctions? I
                      > > > > > > have no idea whatsoever and would like to know.
                      > > > > > > Rafael
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > --- byersnc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Yes, but both T1 and T2 silver dollar blanks are
                      readily
                      > > > > > > > available
                      > > > > > > > at around $1000. so I still can't figure out why it's
                      at
                      > > > > > > > $6500.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Mike Byers
                      > > > > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > > > > mdia1@a...
                      > > > > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > I have no idea why the price is way up there. I do
                      > > > > > > > have a
                      > > > > > > > question about
                      > > > > > > > > the diagnosis, though. The photo seems to show an
                      > > > > > > > upset "proto-
                      > > > > > > > rim". At least
                      > > > > > > > > the pattern of shadows is consistent with a "Type
                      II"
                      > > > > > > > planchet.
                      > > > > > > > Of course,
                      > > > > > > > > this might simply be an artifact of the lighting and
                      > > > > > > > shadows cast
                      > > > > > > > by the
                      > > > > > > > > insert.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/4/05 10:44:13 A.M. Central
                      > > > > > > > Standard Time,
                      > > > > > > > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/7gt8d
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Heritage's bids are real, the bid is real at $6500.
                      > > > > > > > plus 15% but
                      > > > > > > > I
                      > > > > > > > > don't know why it's so high?
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Mike Byers
                      > > > > > > > > http://mikebyers.com
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > __________________________________
                      > > > > > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one
                      > click.
                      > > > > > > http://farechase.yahoo.com
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Rafael Delgado
                      I think this coin is inserted in some kind of metal holder. I ve seen these before but can t figure out why some cents are inserted in such holders. The
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 6, 2005
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                        I think this coin is inserted in some kind of metal holder.
                        I've seen these before but can't figure out why some cents
                        are inserted in such holders. The obverse is obcured by the
                        holder and there is no loop to suspend the coin. ????

                        Has anybody previously seen it or knows about this
                        "chastity belt".

                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8350843253&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1

                        Rafael



                        __________________________________
                        Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                        http://farechase.yahoo.com
                      • seanqueue
                        Mike & Lindy, I can t afford to compete on the type of stuff Mike deals in, but I d also like to endorse Heritage auctions. They don t always have error coins
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 7, 2005
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                          Mike & Lindy,

                          I can't afford to compete on the type of stuff Mike deals in, but I'd
                          also like to endorse Heritage auctions. They don't always have error
                          coins in their auctions, but when they do they tend to sell for very
                          reasonable prices.

                          Last month I won a clipped 1894-O Morgan dollar in an ANACS
                          net-graded XF holder in a Heritage Internet-only auction for less than
                          $100 including the buyers fees. I've also picked up a clipped Carson
                          City Seated Dime and Standing Liberty Quarter from Heritage, and I was
                          the underbidder on a clipped York commemmorative.

                          The one caution I'd give is that their 'post-auction bargains' are
                          often nothing of the sort. I've found those are mainly coins that did
                          not reach reserve during bidding, and the 'bargain' price is the old
                          reserve price plus the buyers fee.


                          Sean Reynolds

                          --- In errorcoininformationexchange@yahoogroups.com, byersnc
                          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Speaking of games etc... Heritage Auctions is 100% straight. An
                          > example:
                          >
                          > At the Pittsburgh ANA I had a table but finished early. I left my
                          > Heritage bids with Leo for the error part of the sale on Saturday
                          > because I was already back home in California. I spent well over
                          > $100,000 and bought the Buffalo 5c struck off center on the cent,
                          > the Indian Cent struck on the half dime blank uniface, the double
                          > struck $20 Liberty ANACS and the Indian Cent struck on a 3 cent
                          > blank NGC, as well as others. My bid for the Indian Cent struck on
                          > the half dime blank was $25,000 and I got it for under $10,000.
                          > Heritage is as straight as they come in their auctions and everyone
                          > knows it.
                          >
                          > Mike Byers
                          > http://mikebyers.com
                          >
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