21531Re: [Error Coin Information Exchange] "OUT-ING" LIVE AUCTIONS
- Jul 3, 2009As Fred pointed out, this is an interesting topic.While I very, very rarely bid on error coins, I will do so with frequency on variety coins. This same situation does occur on other sites who's main menus are varieties. People will post live auctions on those sites for comments and validity of such coins for like error coins, we do have questions concerning these coinsI feel that all forums are a learning tool and to stifle what one wants to post is detrimental to the education that these forums do provide. If the validity of a coin is in question, or if the post is concerning information as to what the error is, or if it is a fake, or if the nomenclature is incorrect, then feel free to post away without concerns that you are uncovering a hidden treasure for all to see. However, to post an auction for "the personal gratification of being the first to find it", then better judgement should be used.There is another example that should be taken into consideration; auctions of items that have a particularly, unwarranted high price. Example; last night I post an auction concerning a 2009-P roll of Jefferson nickels that went off for $247.00. This was not an error or variety coin auction, these were just plain, simple 2009 Jefferson nickels. I thought the price outrageous and still do, even when I found out that a single 2009-P nickel was selling for an average price of $8.00. I felt this worthy of a post in the Lincoln Cent Resource Forum.To further compound the problem of being courteous, a particular auction does not carry the username of the bidder in most instances. So, you really do not know who you are bidding against.In a nutshell, I can see the point of both sides, however, I do feel that Fred has the better reasoning.BJ NeffIn a message dated 7/3/2009 10:35:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes:
This will be an interesting topic.
Marc - I understand your position about being
courteous to other collectors by not mentioning
live error auctions in a chatroom, with your two
exceptions - Fakes and Rip-Offs.... ..
However, what if a member here doesn't know if the
coin is a fake/counterfiet (as was the situation with
the Cent that started this thread), or, if a member
thinks a coin is a rip-off, but it's not,(maybe it is
rare, has bad scans, or is improperly described)and
the member has legitimate questions about it?
Your philosophy makes us take one of two positions:
1. We owe it to others not to 'talk about' a coin that
we might or might not know someone else wants to bid on.
This allows someone to find something, but not 'out' it.
What happens if that person's 'coin of interest' IS
fake, altered, or not what it is as described in the listing?
Should that collector have the opportunity to know that
the coin they are watching or bidding on is bad?
2. We owe it to others to openly discuss anything that is
of interest or questionable - for any reason. That's the
purpose of ECIE, as I understand it. This allows everyone
to learn about different types of coins/errors, and get
educated from the knowledgable collectors who post here.
Should that collector/member have the opportunity to know
that the coin they are watching or bidding on is not as
Again, I understand your frustration, but is it any different
from me finding a coin on Ebay, and with only a few days left
in the auction, someone else (a member or not)is also BIDDING on
it? Should I be frustrated that someone else noticed it? Maybe,
but Ebay is a very large AUCTION venue, and I'm not sure that
"keeping quiet" during a live auction is realistic, to be
expected, or is doing the collecting hobby a service. In the
past, when I've been in this positon, the best thing I can
do for myself is to NOT comment in a chatroom about it. Read
the posts, be frustrated that it's 'outed', but just don't
put your comments/feelings/ observations/ value/etc. in a post.
There could be a good argument made that instead of the 'courtesy'
of NOT outing the coin, it is a 'courtesy' TO SPECIFICALLY
OUT the coin for education and knowledge.
I both bid and sell errors on Ebay - as a seller, would I
like a public discussion of my coin if it's a better error
than I realize, or describe? Is Ebay for buyers, or sellers?
Or, is being open about a listed coin the best 'side to take',
I'll look forward to the others in this chatroom discussing
your suggestions and philosophy.
--- In errorcoininformatio nexchange@ yahoogroups. com, "Marc" <numismistake@ ...> wrote:
> There is no printed policy that I know of regarding outing live auctions. Maybe it should be in print. That's up to the membership and moderators. Perhaps it should be mentioned as you stated.
> As I had explained years ago, outing a live auction does a disservice to ECIE members that are watching that auction and plan to bid on it. It can only drive the price up. I had used the analogy of surfing eBay being like to a walk in a flea market. If you see a Rembrant amongst photos under someone's table, do you yell out, "Hey, look at this Rembrant hiding here!", or do you quietly try to buy it and take it home to show your friends the next day?
> Waiting for an auction to end before posting a question publicly is a COURTESY that I believe each member of this group should practice, and would want practiced on themselves. It is only fair. How many times do we see someone pay a few dollars for what turns out to be an exotic error that was overlooked, and show it to us on ECIE? Very frequently. And we say in this forum and to ourselves, "I wish I had seen that before. Nice find!"
> As an exeption, any live auction for fake errors, or auctions trying to rip someone off should be outed and properly so. We are civilized collectors, and proud of what we collect. We should afford this COURTESY to others that we would expect of ourselves... Marc
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