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Re: Question on shots

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  • Andrea Haas
    Maybe that s what they like to do in OK, the vets I polled were from Wisconsin, Florida, and New Mexico. None of the WI vets recommended the vaccine, except
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 3, 2007
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      Maybe that's what they like to do in OK, the vets I polled were from
      Wisconsin, Florida, and New Mexico. None of the WI vets recommended
      the vaccine, except for colts in some instances, the Florida vet
      vaccinated all of the stallions in his practice, but no mares unless
      they were to be bred to an EVA positive stallion, and the ones in New
      Mexico were variable on whether they vaccinated stallions, and none
      of them recommended vaccinating mares unless being bred to an EVA
      positive stallion. I did read a paper from CSU about a strategy
      involving vaccinating all of the horses on a breeding farm if it is
      in a high risk area. Have there been a lot of outbreaks in OK? I
      haven't heard of any...

      The vaccine in not approved for pregnant mares...I wouldn't give any
      type of modified live vaccine to a pregnant mare. Its to risky to
      the foal. That is what they teach us here at school is well...Don't
      give modified-live vaccines (MLV) to a pregnant animal period. There
      are usually alternatives, or other periods of time when vaccination
      can be done when the animal isn't pregnant. When you give a MLV you
      are essentially infecting the animal with a live strain of virus,
      although it is weaker than a natural version, it can become strong
      again, or still cause problems with the foal. However, the CSU paper
      also documents that the vaccine has been given to pregnant mares with
      no documentation of abortion or infected foals...I still wouldn't do
      it, but some people apparently have.

      Vaccines in some animals (dogs and cats!), including humans work very
      well, however in the horse for some reason, it is difficult to get a
      long lasting immunity from a vaccine. The best vaccines we have only
      last a year, and many, like EHV vaccines only last 3 months! (hence
      giving the rhino shot at 3,5,7 and 9 months) The vaccines are tested
      through challenge studies by the manufacturer to determine the length
      of immunity achieved. So even though we can go 10 years in between a
      tetanus shot, a horse only has immunity to the same thing for 1
      year.

      Andrea
      vet student
      UW SVM Class of 2009

      --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Schaffer"
      <hrscrz40@...> wrote:
      >
      > The vet I talked to in OK said we SHOULD get them vaccinated all
      the
      > horses because of having the chance of them catching it if the
      others
      > are done.
      > I know that they have to have a test first since they show
      postive
      > after the shot, but they do test and give shots the same day they
      > draw blood. I dont plan on shipping semen, at least not for a while
      I
      > mainly plan on breeding my mares to him for a couple of yrs at
      least.
      > The vet I talked to said that it IS safe to give to broodmares
      but
      > needs to be 60 days before foaling, they have been doing it in OK
      and
      > Tx. He said they went to a seminar and the guy, dont remember who
      he
      > said was a leading authority on this. Just repeating what I was
      told,
      > also said that if I am going to breed any of my studs I NEED to get
      > them done. No My mares dont travel but are in pastures next to my
      > running horses and can come into contact with them. I was also told
      > that they dont know HOW long it takes for a mare and gelding to
      sluff
      > off the EVA so not sure how long it will be vefore I could resume
      > breeding again.
      > I was also told that is was ok to give my mares in foal the shots
      > that contain the live version of rhino, I always thought it was NOT
      > alright, which do I believe. I just want to do what is best for my
      > horses and protect them against these things. I do sometimes wonder
      > though If I am not hurting them by OVER doing it. I mean that I
      > wonder if they like us need shots for a coouple of yrs then dont
      need
      > them again except every so many yrs as boosters. Has a study ever
      > been done on this?
      >
      > Will read the information from the link and try to decide which
      is
      > best for my horses.
      > Thanks so much for sending it and helping with this,
      > Debbie S
      >
      > --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea Haas"
      > <dakotabarbay@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Well, I would get your colt tested first...you have to have a
      > > negative test before you give the vaccine because he will test
      > > positive after being vaccinated...also there are restrictions in
      > some
      > > countries regarding vaccination, and positive tests...if you plan
      > on
      > > exporting semen, make sure you are familiar with these. Then
      > > vaccinate the colt. It can be spread through aerosol
      transmission,
      > > however mares and geldings catch it and get rid of it. Thier
      > immune
      > > response is adequate and they develop long lasting immunity,
      which
      > > means they get rid of it pretty easily, and won't be susceptible
      > > again for awhile-"Equine Viral Arteritis"- P. J. Timoney
      > > Gluck Equine Research Center, Department of Veterinary Science,
      The
      > > University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY, USA
      > >
      > > Stallions however become chronic carriers...which is why they
      are
      > > vaccinated more so than mares. The last outbreaks I have heard
      > about
      > > were in New Mexico this year...most vets don't recommend the
      > vaccine
      > > because the disease occurs very sporadically. Also, you cannot
      > > vaccinate pregnant mares because it is a live virus vaccine. For
      > > this reason, any horses who receive the vaccine need to be kept
      > away
      > > from any pregnant mares.
      > >
      > > But, if you feel like your horses are definately at risk, I would
      > > vaccinate the colt for sure. Do you travel with your mares that
      > you
      > > breed as well? If they are pregnant when the travel, or thier
      > > herdmates travel, I guess vaccinating them to might be a good
      idea.
      > >
      > > This link has some info on the disease
      > > http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/52900.htm
      > >
      > > Andrea
      > > vet student
      > > UW SVM class of 2009
      > >
      >
    • Debbie Schaffer
      Thanks for the reply and the info Andrea, No as far as I know there HASNT (not a shout a strees word), been any cases in OK or in Pilot Point, TX, which is
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 4, 2007
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        Thanks for the reply and the info Andrea,
        No as far as I know there HASNT (not a shout a strees word), been
        any cases in OK or in Pilot Point, TX, which is near here but they
        are big time breeding operations there. I know this thing with Dash
        to Fame has the barrel racing world scared. The vet I talked to said
        that ALL the vaccine has been sold out and no more avalible until
        March, which kinda bothers me on a different level, as I am worried
        they may be in such a rush to produce more that they take short cuts,
        not thinking they will hurt anything.
        I am also worried about the fact IF I give it to my 2 mares, one in
        foal and one open can they pass it on to the stallions they breed
        with, live cover, who have NOT had the shot, I mean after the period
        it can spread is over, just by having had the virus in their system?
        I was told no by this other vet who says it SHOULD be given but have
        they really DONE enough studies to KNOW for sure.
        I guess another thing I am having troubel grasping is the fact if
        it HAS been out there for so long WHY is it that some are NOW wanting
        us to panic and get it??
        I really and truely am torn on this as I want to do what is right
        for the horses but at the same time dont want to jump out and just do
        it for the sake of doing it and MAYBE in the end hurt my horses at
        the same time.
        I know of one breeder who said he didnt care IF it hurt his unborn
        babies he was going to make sure ALL his mares had it before they
        foaled, I just done understand that kind of reasoning at all.
        I think I will take the approach of a friend of mine and just wait
        and see.
        Also thanks for the info on the shots. DO have a question on the
        EHV now though, I know we give the broodmares shots at 3/5/7&9
        months BUT what about the other horses that we only give once a yr?
        I do give my running horses another booster shot in the fall as we
        are still running then and seems like alot of the horses we come into
        contact with are sick then so just take it safe and give them a
        booster than. SHoule I be giving them one in the summer too??
        Sorry to be such a pain,
        Debbie S


        --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea Haas"
        <dakotabarbay@...> wrote:
        >
        > Maybe that's what they like to do in OK, the vets I polled were
        from
        > Wisconsin, Florida, and New Mexico. None of the WI vets
        recommended
        > the vaccine, except for colts in some instances, the Florida vet
        > vaccinated all of the stallions in his practice, but no mares
        unless
        > they were to be bred to an EVA positive stallion, and the ones in
        New
        > Mexico were variable on whether they vaccinated stallions, and none
        > of them recommended vaccinating mares unless being bred to an EVA
        > positive stallion. I did read a paper from CSU about a strategy
        > involving vaccinating all of the horses on a breeding farm if it is
        > in a high risk area. Have there been a lot of outbreaks in OK? I
        > haven't heard of any...
        >
        > The vaccine in not approved for pregnant mares...I wouldn't give
        any
        > type of modified live vaccine to a pregnant mare. Its to risky to
        > the foal. That is what they teach us here at school is
        well...Don't
        > give modified-live vaccines (MLV) to a pregnant animal period.
        There
        > are usually alternatives, or other periods of time when vaccination
        > can be done when the animal isn't pregnant. When you give a MLV
        you
        > are essentially infecting the animal with a live strain of virus,
        > although it is weaker than a natural version, it can become strong
        > again, or still cause problems with the foal. However, the CSU
        paper
        > also documents that the vaccine has been given to pregnant mares
        with
        > no documentation of abortion or infected foals...I still wouldn't
        do
        > it, but some people apparently have.
        >
        > Vaccines in some animals (dogs and cats!), including humans work
        very
        > well, however in the horse for some reason, it is difficult to get
        a
        > long lasting immunity from a vaccine. The best vaccines we have
        only
        > last a year, and many, like EHV vaccines only last 3 months! (hence
        > giving the rhino shot at 3,5,7 and 9 months) The vaccines are
        tested
        > through challenge studies by the manufacturer to determine the
        length
        > of immunity achieved. So even though we can go 10 years in between
        a
        > tetanus shot, a horse only has immunity to the same thing for 1
        > year.
        >
        > Andrea
        > vet student
        > UW SVM Class of 2009
        >
      • Andrea Haas
        Hi Debbie, the same thing happened this fall when there was an outbreak in New Mexico...everyone panicked and the vaccine was sold out for a few months. There
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 5, 2007
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          Hi Debbie, the same thing happened this fall when there was an
          outbreak in New Mexico...everyone panicked and the vaccine was sold
          out for a few months.

          There hasn't been strong evidence that the vaccine can cause disease
          in other horses, but since its modified live, there is always a risk,
          so there are precautions recommended just in case. I'm not sure if
          mares can pass it venearally to stallions...I haven't heard of it.
          Three weeks after natural infection, the only thing that will be left
          in the mare is antibodies against the virus. The virus will have
          been cleared. After a mare is bred to a carrier stallion, it is
          recommended she be quarentined for 21 days, so that must be enough
          time that she will have the virus cleared. After vaccination, since
          the virus isn't as strong, I would think it would clear faster.

          As far as EHV, the vaccine isn't the best. However, if your horse
          isn't at a high risk of exposure, annual revaccination may be okay.
          If you are showing, and your horse is at more risk, revaccination is
          recommended (by AAEP) every 3-4 months.

          http://www.aaep.org/pdfs/AAEP_vacc_guide.pdf
          This link is for the AAEP vaccination guidelines

          Andrea
          vet student
          UW SVM class of 2009

          --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Schaffer"
          <hrscrz40@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for the reply and the info Andrea,
          > No as far as I know there HASNT (not a shout a strees word), been
          > any cases in OK or in Pilot Point, TX, which is near here but they
          > are big time breeding operations there. I know this thing with Dash
          > to Fame has the barrel racing world scared. The vet I talked to
          said
          > that ALL the vaccine has been sold out and no more avalible until
          > March, which kinda bothers me on a different level, as I am worried
          > they may be in such a rush to produce more that they take short
          cuts,
          > not thinking they will hurt anything.
          > I am also worried about the fact IF I give it to my 2 mares, one
          in
          > foal and one open can they pass it on to the stallions they breed
          > with, live cover, who have NOT had the shot, I mean after the
          period
          > it can spread is over, just by having had the virus in their
          system?
          > I was told no by this other vet who says it SHOULD be given but
          have
          > they really DONE enough studies to KNOW for sure.
          > I guess another thing I am having troubel grasping is the fact if
          > it HAS been out there for so long WHY is it that some are NOW
          wanting
          > us to panic and get it??
          > I really and truely am torn on this as I want to do what is right
          > for the horses but at the same time dont want to jump out and just
          do
          > it for the sake of doing it and MAYBE in the end hurt my horses at
          > the same time.
          > I know of one breeder who said he didnt care IF it hurt his
          unborn
          > babies he was going to make sure ALL his mares had it before they
          > foaled, I just done understand that kind of reasoning at all.
          > I think I will take the approach of a friend of mine and just
          wait
          > and see.
          > Also thanks for the info on the shots. DO have a question on the
          > EHV now though, I know we give the broodmares shots at 3/5/7&9
          > months BUT what about the other horses that we only give once a
          yr?
          > I do give my running horses another booster shot in the fall as we
          > are still running then and seems like alot of the horses we come
          into
          > contact with are sick then so just take it safe and give them a
          > booster than. SHoule I be giving them one in the summer too??
          > Sorry to be such a pain,
          > Debbie S
          >
          >
          >
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