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Re: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine

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  • Lori lambie
    A horsehas foot after foot after foot of intestine and it is supported by a small ( oh boy..its been too long I ve forgotten my names) amount of connecting
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 28, 2006
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      A horsehas foot after foot after foot of intestine and it is supported by a small  ( oh boy..its been too long I've forgotten my names) amount of connecting tissue.  If a horse has the right conditions in those intestines ( say gas ) and a good roll that foot after foot can give a good roll around and that bubble of gas will roll around and there you go... had a horse die in front of my eyes from a twist...it was not a happy expereince for me 
      Lori Lambie
      Scio, Oregon
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:51 PM
      Subject: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine

      I do have banamine on hand and walk the horse until the vet arrives. 
      The reason I asked this question in because I lost a mare about a month
      ago, two weeks before she was to foal to what the vet called a twisted
      intestine.  When I went out in the morning, she has signs of colic, so
      I called the vet, gave her a shot and walked her until the vet arrived.
      She oiled her with a tube through her nose and told me her feces was a
      little dry and that if the colic didn't seem better, I should take her
      to the clinic so they could hook her up to a IV. The vet had barely
      pulled out of the driveway and she started pawing again, so I called
      the office and told them I was bringing her in. The end of the story
      came three days later when the vet called and finally said she had to
      put the mare down. She attempted to save the foal, but it was too early
      for him.
      I just find it hard to believe that a mare with a 10 month fetus has
      enough room in her body cavity to twist a intestine by rolling. In fact
      it doesn't sound reasonalbe to me that a horse that isn't even pregnant
      could twist a intestine. What is this theory based on?  Were
      postmortems done on coliced horses and twisted intestines found, or is
      it just one of those things that is said when a horse has colic whether
      it is impaction or any other thing?

    • wildwoodapp@aol.com
      Thanks, I bookmarked those sites and will go over them tomorrow. I am one of those people who can t stand not knowing what happened and why!!?? This mare was
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 28, 2006
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        Thanks, I bookmarked those sites and will go over them tomorrow. I am
        one of those people who can't stand not knowing what happened and
        why!!??
        This mare was perfectly healthy for all of her life until I sent her to
        a trainer last summer. She was only there for three months and shortly
        after I got her home I received a bill from a vet clinic near the
        trainer for treatment for colic. I have had horses with colic before,
        but it was mostly a case of a mild upset. No fever, normal heart rate,
        good gut sounds and one shot of banamine takes care of it.
        This was such a shock, but I knew right away it was not a normal
        problem. My husband is always teasing me about fussing over any horse
        that does the slightest thing out of the ordinary.
      • wildwoodapp@aol.com
        Thanks Cindy. That is what I wondered about. I know inner organs in most species are held in place by inner membranes and that is why I couldn t understand
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 28, 2006
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          Thanks Cindy. That is what I wondered about. I know inner organs in
          most species are held in place by inner membranes and that is why I
          couldn't understand how rolling over could twist an intestine. Thank
          you so much. I will do more studying up on this now.
        • horsegal984
          If you re familiar with large breed dogs, a twisted intestine is very similar to bloat in dogs where the stomach flips. Due to the deep chest s on horses the
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 28, 2006
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            If you're familiar with large breed dogs, a twisted intestine is very
            similar to bloat in dogs where the stomach flips. Due to the deep
            chest's on horses the stomach has a lot of room to move around. That
            has a lot to do with why it is reccomended to feed horses in several
            small feedings versus one large one, and why it is reccomended not to
            allow strenous exercise right after eating. The theory is that this
            can help decrease the likely hood of a twist. Think of holding a
            baloon that is half full of water and half full of air by either end,
            then swinging it around. Once it's filpped, it's very unlikely it
            will correct itself. Walking during a colic doesn't always prevent
            the twist, since sometimes the twist can be what causes the colic
            symptoms to begin with.

            Katherine
            Vet Tech student

            --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, wildwoodapp@...
            wrote:
            >
            > I do have banamine on hand and walk the horse until the vet
            arrives.
            > The reason I asked this question in because I lost a mare about a
            month
            > ago, two weeks before she was to foal to what the vet called a
            twisted
            > intestine. When I went out in the morning, she has signs of colic,
            so
            > I called the vet, gave her a shot and walked her until the vet
            arrived.
            > She oiled her with a tube through her nose and told me her feces
            was a
            > little dry and that if the colic didn't seem better, I should take
            her
            > to the clinic so they could hook her up to a IV. The vet had barely
            > pulled out of the driveway and she started pawing again, so I
            called
            > the office and told them I was bringing her in. The end of the
            story
            > came three days later when the vet called and finally said she had
            to
            > put the mare down. She attempted to save the foal, but it was too
            early
            > for him.
            > I just find it hard to believe that a mare with a 10 month fetus
            has
            > enough room in her body cavity to twist a intestine by rolling. In
            fact
            > it doesn't sound reasonalbe to me that a horse that isn't even
            pregnant
            > could twist a intestine. What is this theory based on? Were
            > postmortems done on coliced horses and twisted intestines found, or
            is
            > it just one of those things that is said when a horse has colic
            whether
            > it is impaction or any other thing?
            >
          • wildwoodapp@aol.com
            Thanks to everyone for all the information. I can only guess what happened with my mare. She was well taken care of and full of energy. Maybe that could have
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 1, 2006
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              Thanks to everyone for all the information. I can only guess what
              happened with my mare. She was well taken care of and full of energy.
              Maybe that could have been the problem. She was ten months pregnant and
              still running and bucking, kicking her hind legs way up in the air and
              generally snorting and prancing around like a yearling because she felt
              so good. It is amazing when I think of all the stories my grandfather
              used to tell me about the horses he worked with on the farm. They
              would pull all day and he even had a mare foal while she was in harness
              and he was in eating his lunch. They are so strong and powerful and at
              the same time so completely vulnerable and fragile. I guess that is why
              we love them so much.

              Visit our website at: www.wildwoodappaloosas.com
            • c
              It s a wonder horses don t twist intestines more with those that like to roll every day in the sand. What stops twists from happening during their daily sand
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 2, 2006
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                It's a wonder horses don't twist intestines more with those that like to roll every day in the sand.  What stops twists from happening during their daily sand rolls ?
                This horse here rolls every day in the sand, then gets up and shakes himself off.
                 
                Carrie.
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:01 PM
                Subject: Re: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine

                A horsehas foot after foot after foot of intestine and it is supported by a small  ( oh boy..its been too long I've forgotten my names) amount of connecting tissue.  If a horse has the right conditions in those intestines ( say gas ) and a good roll that foot after foot can give a good roll around and that bubble of gas will roll around and there you go... had a horse die in front of my eyes from a twist...it was not a happy expereince for me 
                Lori Lambie
                Scio, Oregon
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:51 PM
                Subject: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine

                I do have banamine on hand and walk the horse until the vet arrives. 
                The reason I asked this question in because I lost a mare about a month
                ago, two weeks before she was to foal to what the vet called a twisted
                intestine.  When I went out in the morning, she has signs of colic, so
                I called the vet, gave her a shot and walked her until the vet arrived.
                She oiled her with a tube through her nose and told me her feces was a
                little dry and that if the colic didn't seem better, I should take her
                to the clinic so they could hook her up to a IV. The vet had barely
                pulled out of the driveway and she started pawing again, so I called
                the office and told them I was bringing her in. The end of the story
                came three days later when the vet called and finally said she had to
                put the mare down. She attempted to save the foal, but it was too early
                for him.
                I just find it hard to believe that a mare with a 10 month fetus has
                enough room in her body cavity to twist a intestine by rolling. In fact
                it doesn't sound reasonalbe to me that a horse that isn't even pregnant
                could twist a intestine. What is this theory based on?  Were
                postmortems done on coliced horses and twisted intestines found, or is
                it just one of those things that is said when a horse has colic whether
                it is impaction or any other thing?

              • Lori lambie
                I watch my mare roll and I just wonder that very thing myself. They are such big and beautiful strong animals but have such a weird make up wich makes them
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 2, 2006
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                  I watch my mare roll and I just wonder that very thing myself.   They are such big and beautiful strong animals but have such a weird make up wich makes them so fragile in so many ways. 
                  Lori Lambie
                  Scio, Oregon
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: c
                  Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:20 AM
                  Subject: Re: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine

                  It's a wonder horses don't twist intestines more with those that like to roll every day in the sand.  What stops twists from happening during their daily sand rolls ?
                  This horse here rolls every day in the sand, then gets up and shakes himself off.
                   
                  Carrie.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:01 PM
                  Subject: Re: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine

                  A horsehas foot after foot after foot of intestine and it is supported by a small  ( oh boy..its been too long I've forgotten my names) amount of connecting tissue.  If a horse has the right conditions in those intestines ( say gas ) and a good roll that foot after foot can give a good roll around and that bubble of gas will roll around and there you go... had a horse die in front of my eyes from a twist...it was not a happy expereince for me 
                  Lori Lambie
                  Scio, Oregon
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:51 PM
                  Subject: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine

                  I do have banamine on hand and walk the horse until the vet arrives. 
                  The reason I asked this question in because I lost a mare about a month
                  ago, two weeks before she was to foal to what the vet called a twisted
                  intestine.  When I went out in the morning, she has signs of colic, so
                  I called the vet, gave her a shot and walked her until the vet arrived.
                  She oiled her with a tube through her nose and told me her feces was a
                  little dry and that if the colic didn't seem better, I should take her
                  to the clinic so they could hook her up to a IV. The vet had barely
                  pulled out of the driveway and she started pawing again, so I called
                  the office and told them I was bringing her in. The end of the story
                  came three days later when the vet called and finally said she had to
                  put the mare down. She attempted to save the foal, but it was too early
                  for him.
                  I just find it hard to believe that a mare with a 10 month fetus has
                  enough room in her body cavity to twist a intestine by rolling. In fact
                  it doesn't sound reasonalbe to me that a horse that isn't even pregnant
                  could twist a intestine. What is this theory based on?  Were
                  postmortems done on coliced horses and twisted intestines found, or is
                  it just one of those things that is said when a horse has colic whether
                  it is impaction or any other thing?

                • George
                  I agree they are very fragile in some ways, and colic is the #1 killer of horses. But as far as play rolling, I havebeen told time and time again, that this
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 21, 2006
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                    I agree they are very fragile in some ways, and colic is the #1 killer
                    of horses. But as far as "play" rolling, I havebeen told time and
                    time again, that this does not cause twisting of the intestines. That
                    only occurs when they are already in a colic, and are thrashing
                    around. Having dealt with several colics, I can see there is a big
                    difference between rolling in pain from a colic and just rolling for
                    fun because it feels good. I have also wondered if the twist was
                    actually what caused the colic, rather than the other way around. Of
                    course, any vet will tell you there are 2 types of colics. One is not
                    very severe, and is basically caused by solid stool that dont want to
                    pass. Those are still life threatening, but more often than not, a
                    little oil and some Banamine will cause the stool to pass. The second
                    type is much more severe, more painful for the horse and is more often
                    fatal. That consists of a solid blockage, ad in some cases a twist.
                    I should note that I had a horse severely colic last year, and the vet
                    said she would not likely survive, and left my farm telling me to rush
                    her to an equine hospital ASAP, or else he would put her down. As
                    soon as he left, I found out that the nearest hospital would be a 4
                    hour drive, and I would need to put down at least $1000 before they
                    would even take the horse, and then too, how the heck do I get a
                    struggling painful horse into a trailer. Instead, I called my
                    farrier, who seems to be able to treat anything on a horse. He came
                    over, grabbed some dairy gloves and cleaned her out with his hands
                    until he was inside her to his shoulder. Then he took several
                    handfulls of epsom salt and shoved it down her throat, and told me to
                    give her more banamine (I keep some on hand). The vet had given her
                    some, but he said to give her more. After doing all of this, he told
                    me to walk her. She kept laying down. Thats when he told me to get
                    on another horse, or my tractor and take her into a full gallop. I
                    must admit I was very hesitant to do that, but there was nothing left
                    to lose. Either I tried everything, or I'd lose my beautiful mare. I
                    chose the tractor, even though I think another horse was safer, I was
                    too upset to really ride a horse and handle her at the same time.
                    When I got the tractor going she was pulling back and trying to lay
                    down. I just kept pulling and gaining speed until she had little
                    choice but to keep her legs moving. My farrier ran along side of her,
                    and tried to keep her away from the tractor tires with a crop. When I
                    was in 4th gear, she suddenly began to outrun the tractor. I was
                    worried having her right along side those large tires, but I shifted
                    into 5th gear (the highest gear on my old farmall H), and I got ahead
                    of her. Suddenly she began to drop back, and the farrier yelled to me
                    to stop. Sure enough, she pooped all over the place. He grebbed the
                    lead rope from me, and ran her back to the barn on foot. By the time
                    I turned the tractor around and got back, she was laying on the hill
                    in front of the barn completely out of breath. I thought she was
                    dying. We sat next to her for 1/2 hour. She laid totally still.
                    Suddenly she began to grab grass in her teeth, then got up, and ran
                    right over by her favorite gelding.

                    She's fine today..... It took me months to get her weight back to
                    normal, but she is healthy now.

                    I am NOT suggesting doing this, but I am telling you what worked for
                    me. Much of this is contrary to what vets say to do, but then again,
                    the vet wanted to put her down, and I am sure glad that I refused now.
                    I still have my mare and she's still my best friend. The only side
                    effect from all of this, is that she is really afraid of crops now.
                    But he did what he had to do to keep her away from that tractor tire.
                    I guess that is a small price to pay to have saved her life. (I
                    guess that is why I think using another horse would have been better,
                    but I know how sensitive horses are to our emotions, and mine were
                    very stressed and unbalanced at the time, not to mention the delay to
                    saddle up, and all of that).

                    By the way, I run an equine sanctuary, and this 4 year old mare is
                    blind, which is why I have her.

                    George


                    --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "Lori lambie"
                    <lamb@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I watch my mare roll and I just wonder that very thing myself.
                    They are such big and beautiful strong animals but have such a weird
                    make up wich makes them so fragile in so many ways.
                    > Lori Lambie
                    > Scio, Oregon
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: c
                    > To: equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:20 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [equineveterinarymedicine] Twisted Intestine
                    >
                    >
                    > It's a wonder horses don't twist intestines more with those that
                    like to roll every day in the sand. What stops twists from happening
                    during their daily sand rolls ?
                    > This horse here rolls every day in the sand, then gets up and
                    shakes himself off.
                    >
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