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Re: Derby

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  • Andrea Gade
    ... Breaking a leg during recovery from anesthesia is one of the major risks of undergoing such a procedure, I would not condemn genetics for that reason.
    Message 1 of 21 , May 4, 2008
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      >
      > Ruffian's breakdown points more toward genetics. Both her sire and
      > dam were dead within two years of her death. Reviewer broke a hind
      > leg in a breeding accident, and after one month in a cast, did
      > unrepairable damage to it after the cast was changed. Shenanigans
      > under went colic surgery, and as she was coming to, thrashed about
      > and broke both front legs (sound familiar?). Both died within a month
      > of each other, and about 2 years after Ruffian.
      >
      Breaking a leg during recovery from anesthesia is one of the major
      risks of undergoing such a procedure, I would not condemn genetics for
      that reason. Breeding accidents are also common. Ruffian's breakdown
      seemed to be a pretty classic breakdown injury, I think its probably
      the same thing as what happened with Eight Belles, a lot of stress, and
      eventually something has to give...

      Andrea
      vet student
      UW SVM class of 2009
    • Kathy Marshall
      Totally agree!! ... From: Lori Lambie To: equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [equineveterinarymedicine]
      Message 2 of 21 , May 4, 2008
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        Totally agree!!
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:57 PM
        Subject: Re: [equineveterinarymedicine] Derby

        I think they are too young too.  But that is the way that is done... there are others in the horse industry that start their young ones to early also... the main reason I am not a trainer... so now I raise children and ride for pleasure
        Lori Lambie
        Scio, Oregon
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:19 AM
        Subject: Re: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Derby

        Hi, I'm new to your list. I watched the Derby with great reluctance after the Barbaro incident which I followed his progress reports till the end.
        The Track Vet said he had never seen this happen before in all the yrs, he had been doing this job. So I don't know what the deal was, I watched her finish the race and she looked fine, and seconds later she was down. Maybe we will here more on the subject. I was very upset about this and will not be watching the Derby anymore.
        To my understanding the tracks are all suppose to be changing the turf, but I see Churchill Downs hasn't. This decision brought on by Barbaro's accident. In my opinion these horses are way to young for the stress level put upon there still growing bones and that is why these accidents occur.
        Just my opinion!
        Kathy
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:50 AM
        Subject: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Derby

        Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly at the derby.   How often does that kind of thing happen with both fornt legs like that.  I know she was put down but I jus tcan't imagine both fornt legs like that.    Was it possibly from a previous injury...  I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still don;t understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown races...
        Lori Lambie
        Scio, Oregon

      • Beth Lackey
        The filly was shown in it s stall before the race - and I always look for ears forward or working around, alertness, and calmness...Eight Belles was shown and
        Message 3 of 21 , May 4, 2008
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          The filly was shown in it's stall before the race - and I always look for ears forward or working around, alertness, and calmness...Eight Belles was shown and her head was down, my husband (who knows nothing of horses) even stated that she looked downtrodden.  I firmly believe, only by looking at this magnificent filly and then her tragic push to death, that she was overtrained....they probably thought she needed more training racing against the colts.  Also, I agree with everyone that says the artificial surface and distance added danger to her overworked bones.  I have always worried about the number of horses on a track during a race - contributing to bumps, legs tangled, etc....I do think that is dangerous...and poor Eight Belles - having someone ride her that she didn't know or trust...what a magnificent animal to perform under all those conditions...

          I saved a 3 year old racehorse...and although he is not rideable, because he bucks from abuse, etc...he loves to run around the pond and arena....but that's natural...and I love watching him do what he loves.  In a derby situation - he would hate it....Beth

          --- On Sun, 5/4/08, Lori Lambie <lamb@...> wrote:

          From: Lori Lambie <lamb@...>
          Subject: Re: [equineveterinarymedicine] Re: Derby
          To: equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, May 4, 2008, 11:02 AM

          I guess all horses should be let free then?   Nothing I provide for my horse is natural... My riding them is certainly not natural...  them being fenced is not natural... i don't have enough land to provide tham with just grass forage...so that is not natural, I have to suppliment w hay and some grainand minerals... I really think that some of your points are legitamate but to say its not natural is silly....everything we humans do to horses is not "natural" 
          Lori Lambie
          Scio, Oregon
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:45 AM
          Subject: Re: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Re: Derby

          Why did this filly die?
          Ok - IMO
          Most trainers feed races horses on un natural feeds resulting in gastric ulcers, growth, bone and other abnormalities, pump them full of chemicals, medication and hormones, shut them in tiny spaces when constant movement is vital for their health, put metal shoes on their feet and block one of natures vital hoof mechanisms resulting in poorer blood circulation, poorer heart health and poorer general health, train and push them well past their endurance or when they still have not finished growing which results in tendon, ligament and joint problems, keep them separated from each other which results in stress and stress related disorders, ask them to carry weights well past their capabilities for short distances at fast speeds when genetically they are evolved to travel long distances at reasonable speeds.....
           
          And we wonder why horses limbs fracture or break, hearts give up, spirits die, neurosis increase, ilnesses increase and race horses generally are broken down by the age of 6 maximum????
           
          Im not saying all trainers are like this, but I think we all need to have a reality check. Going to the track and betting on a sure thing actually involves a living breathing animal - an animal we dont always - in fact dont often - provide the basic health and life care that any sentient being has a right too.
          I have never attended a race track and plan never to do so.
           
          Im not saying the racing industry is the only one - but boy - it sure has a lot to answer for.

          On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Andrea Gade <dakotabarbay@ horsemail. com> wrote:

          Breakdown injuries happen, whether its do to age, track, level of
          training I'm not sure. These horses are extreme athletes and with that
          comes the risk that something will go wrong. It rarely happens in both
          legs, and that's why she was euthanized so quickly...if it had only
          been one leg, they may have tried to fix the fracture, although her
          prognosis would have been guarded. One of the fractures was also open
          (the skin was broken) so that alone decreases the chances of recovering
          by half. The most inexplainable part is it happened after that race,
          she wasn't straining her legs at that point and didn't seem painful at
          all while she was racing...even after the wire she was fine. It was
          horrific to see, but even worse is understanding the pain of the
          injury. At least her pain was over quickly, unlike Barabaro. I was
          rooting for her, what a beautiful, talented filly...

          Andrea
          vet student
          UW SVM class of 2009

          --- In equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com, "Lori Lambie"

          <lamb@...> wrote:
          >
          > Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly
          at the derby. How often does that kind of thing happen with both
          fornt legs like that. I know she was put down but I jus tcan't imagine
          both fornt legs like that. Was it possibly from a previous
          injury... I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still
          don;t understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown
          races...
          > Lori Lambie
          > Scio, Oregon
          >




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        • mario diaz
          Well trainer, cowboy jones, gallops his own horses- being around these horses for a while, wt in the morn. can take it s toll, Mr. trainer -cowboy-jones tips
          Message 4 of 21 , May 5, 2008
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            Well  trainer, cowboy jones,  gallops his own horses- being around these
            horses for a while, wt in the morn. can take it's toll, Mr. trainer -cowboy-jones
              tips the scale at 200lbs I think he should start thinking that over in the
            future,  that wt. every morn cant be good, for a young filly, where is Hard-Spun,he's
               is done too, stay on the  rail  cowboy!   

            Beth Lackey <BethLackey@...> wrote:
            The filly was shown in it's stall before the race - and I always look for ears forward or working around, alertness, and calmness...Eight Belles was shown and her head was down, my husband (who knows nothing of horses) even stated that she looked downtrodden.  I firmly believe, only by looking at this magnificent filly and then her tragic push to death, that she was overtrained. ...they probably thought she needed more training racing against the colts.  Also, I agree with everyone that says the artificial surface and distance added danger to her overworked bones.  I have always worried about the number of horses on a track during a race - contributing to bumps, legs tangled, etc....I do think that is dangerous... and poor Eight Belles - having someone ride her that she didn't know or trust...what a magnificent animal to perform under all those conditions.. .
            I saved a 3 year old racehorse... and although he is not rideable, because he bucks from abuse, etc...he loves to run around the pond and arena....but that's natural...and I love watching him do what he loves.  In a derby situation - he would hate it....Beth

            --- On Sun, 5/4/08, Lori Lambie <lamb@smt-net. com> wrote:
            From: Lori Lambie <lamb@smt-net. com>
            Subject: Re: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Re: Derby
            To: equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com
            Date: Sunday, May 4, 2008, 11:02 AM

            I guess all horses should be let free then?   Nothing I provide for my horse is natural... My riding them is certainly not natural...  them being fenced is not natural... i don't have enough land to provide tham with just grass forage...so that is not natural, I have to suppliment w hay and some grainand minerals... I really think that some of your points are legitamate but to say its not natural is silly....everything we humans do to horses is not "natural" 
            Lori Lambie
            Scio, Oregon
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:45 AM
            Subject: Re: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Re: Derby

            Why did this filly die?
            Ok - IMO
            Most trainers feed races horses on un natural feeds resulting in gastric ulcers, growth, bone and other abnormalities, pump them full of chemicals, medication and hormones, shut them in tiny spaces when constant movement is vital for their health, put metal shoes on their feet and block one of natures vital hoof mechanisms resulting in poorer blood circulation, poorer heart health and poorer general health, train and push them well past their endurance or when they still have not finished growing which results in tendon, ligament and joint problems, keep them separated from each other which results in stress and stress related disorders, ask them to carry weights well past their capabilities for short distances at fast speeds when genetically they are evolved to travel long distances at reasonable speeds.....
             
            And we wonder why horses limbs fracture or break, hearts give up, spirits die, neurosis increase, ilnesses increase and race horses generally are broken down by the age of 6 maximum????
             
            Im not saying all trainers are like this, but I think we all need to have a reality check. Going to the track and betting on a sure thing actually involves a living breathing animal - an animal we dont always - in fact dont often - provide the basic health and life care that any sentient being has a right too.
            I have never attended a race track and plan never to do so.
             
            Im not saying the racing industry is the only one - but boy - it sure has a lot to answer for.

            On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Andrea Gade <dakotabarbay@ horsemail. com> wrote:
            Breakdown injuries happen, whether its do to age, track, level of
            training I'm not sure. These horses are extreme athletes and with that
            comes the risk that something will go wrong. It rarely happens in both
            legs, and that's why she was euthanized so quickly...if it had only
            been one leg, they may have tried to fix the fracture, although her
            prognosis would have been guarded. One of the fractures was also open
            (the skin was broken) so that alone decreases the chances of recovering
            by half. The most inexplainable part is it happened after that race,
            she wasn't straining her legs at that point and didn't seem painful at
            all while she was racing...even after the wire she was fine. It was
            horrific to see, but even worse is understanding the pain of the
            injury. At least her pain was over quickly, unlike Barabaro. I was
            rooting for her, what a beautiful, talented filly...

            Andrea
            vet student
            UW SVM class of 2009

            --- In equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com, "Lori Lambie"
            <lamb@...> wrote:
            >
            > Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly
            at the derby. How often does that kind of thing happen with both
            fornt legs like that. I know she was put down but I jus tcan't imagine
            both fornt legs like that. Was it possibly from a previous
            injury... I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still
            don;t understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown
            races...
            > Lori Lambie
            > Scio, Oregon
            >




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          • Sheila
            Did anyone hear it when the announcer said that Big Brown had only ran in three previous races because he has problems with quarter cracks in his hooves?
            Message 5 of 21 , May 5, 2008
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              Did anyone hear it when the announcer said that Big Brown had only
              ran in three previous races because he has problems with quarter
              cracks in his hooves? Also, if you have a chance to see a recording
              of the race and the end of the broadcast, watch Big Brown walking
              towards the camera after his jockey is off. That is a very sore footed
              horse. It is really sad that they can't find a way to strengthen his
              hooves when so many things are available.
              Sheila

              --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Marshall"
              <marshallkmax@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi, I'm new to your list. I watched the Derby with great reluctance after the Barbaro
              incident which I followed his progress reports till the end.
              > The Track Vet said he had never seen this happen before in all the yrs, he had been
              doing this job. So I don't know what the deal was, I watched her finish the race and she
              looked fine, and seconds later she was down. Maybe we will here more on the subject. I
              was very upset about this and will not be watching the Derby anymore.
              > To my understanding the tracks are all suppose to be changing the turf, but I see
              Churchill Downs hasn't. This decision brought on by Barbaro's accident. In my opinion
              these horses are way to young for the stress level put upon there still growing bones and
              that is why these accidents occur.
              > Just my opinion!
              > Kathy
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Lori Lambie
              > To: equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:50 AM
              > Subject: [equineveterinarymedicine] Derby
              >
              >
              >
              > Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly at the derby.
              How often does that kind of thing happen with both fornt legs like that. I know she was
              put down but I jus tcan't imagine both fornt legs like that. Was it possibly from a
              previous injury... I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still don;t
              understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown races...
              > Lori Lambie
              > Scio, Oregon
              >
            • Beth Lackey
              Rest is the best medicine for a sore hoof...these horses are overworked...high investments determine they run - and if they are euthanized, insurance
              Message 6 of 21 , May 5, 2008
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                Rest is the best medicine for a sore hoof...these horses are overworked...high investments determine they run - and if they are euthanized, insurance pays....the only loser is the horse.

                --- On Mon, 5/5/08, Sheila <wildwoodapp@...> wrote:
                From: Sheila <wildwoodapp@...>
                Subject: [equineveterinarymedicine] Re: Derby
                To: equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, May 5, 2008, 10:13 AM

                Did anyone hear it when the announcer said that Big Brown had only
                ran in three previous races because he has problems with quarter
                cracks in his hooves? Also, if you have a chance to see a recording
                of the race and the end of the broadcast, watch Big Brown walking
                towards the camera after his jockey is off. That is a very sore footed
                horse. It is really sad that they can't find a way to strengthen his
                hooves when so many things are available.
                Sheila

                --- In equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com, "Kathy Marshall"
                <marshallkmax@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, I'm new to your list. I watched the Derby with great reluctance after the Barbaro
                incident which I followed his progress reports till the end.
                > The Track Vet said he had never seen this happen before in all the yrs, he had been
                doing this job. So I don't know what the deal was, I watched her finish the race and she
                looked fine, and seconds later she was down. Maybe we will here more on the subject. I
                was very upset about this and will not be watching the Derby anymore.
                > To my understanding the tracks are all suppose to be changing the turf, but I see
                Churchill Downs hasn't. This decision brought on by Barbaro's accident. In my opinion
                these horses are way to young for the stress level put upon there still growing bones and
                that is why these accidents occur.
                > Just my opinion!
                > Kathy
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Lori Lambie
                > To: equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com
                > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:50 AM
                > Subject: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Derby
                >
                >
                >
                > Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly at the derby.
                How often does that kind of thing happen with both fornt legs like that. I know she was
                put down but I jus tcan't imagine both fornt legs like that. Was it possibly from a
                previous injury... I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still don;t
                understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown races...
                > Lori Lambie
                > Scio, Oregon
                >



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              • Katherine
                Ok, I ll bite on this now. This filly broke down because that s what she was bred to do. Look at Native Dancer and how thick his legs and cannons are. Man
                Message 7 of 21 , May 5, 2008
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                  Ok, I'll bite on this now. This filly broke down because that's what
                  she was bred to do. Look at Native Dancer and how thick his legs and
                  cannons are. Man O'War and just about any older TB, the foundation
                  sires so to speak. Now compare that to the toothpicks that the
                  majority of American TB's today. New Zealand and Canadian TB's still
                  have thick bones and legs, why has America changed? I don't know.
                  What I do know is that Eight Belles was linebred Raise a Native, who
                  is known to have bad ankles, and pass them along to his offspring.
                  One source for this quoted below...

                  "Q. What do you think of using close inbreeding to Northern Dancer?

                  A. It's working as close as 2x3 in Skimming, a Grade 1 winner, and is
                  probably the most frequent form of linebreeding (3x3, 3x4, 4x4, etc.)
                  that we're seeing today, but generally, I don't advocate inbreeding
                  closer than 3x4. I see no downside to this particular strategy unless
                  both of the parents have any of the negatives associated with the
                  line, such as small size, "ponyish" appearance, studdish behavior,
                  and bent hocks. Northern Dancer didn't have as many potential
                  negatives as Raise a Native (who was unsound from an unsound line). "

                  Copied from:
                  http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:vAD7b68nb-
                  EJ:www.ctba.com/01news/calbreds618.htm+Raise+A+Native+inherited+two+co
                  pies+of+a+recessive+gene+for+weak+ankles.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

                  Smarty Jones goes back to Raise a Native too, and had to be retired
                  young due to chronic bruising of the ankle bones.

                  The TB industry is having to retire horses at 4-5 years due to
                  unsoundness issues, but then they breed those horses. They're
                  breeding for speed and not soundness. It's an interesting dillema,
                  do you breed the horses who can run like the wind but are crippled by
                  5, or slower horses who are sound until they are 12-15 or more?

                  On that same note, now that Big Brown is a Derby winner he can retire
                  to stud and pass his wonderful feet on to lots more horses.

                  RIP Eight Belles

                  Katherine


                  --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "oktahahorseman"
                  <gerry@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The most inexplainable part is it happened after that race,
                  > > she wasn't straining her legs at that point and didn't seem
                  painful
                  > at
                  > > all while she was racing...even after the wire she was fine. It
                  > was
                  > > horrific to see, but even worse is understanding the pain of the
                  > > injury. At least her pain was over quickly, unlike Barabaro. I
                  > was
                  > > rooting for her, what a beautiful, talented filly...
                  > >
                  > > Andrea
                  > > vet student
                  > > UW SVM class of 2009
                  >
                  >
                  > It would probably take an engineer to study the possability, but
                  I'd
                  > be willing to bet that there's as much stress on the front legs as
                  > they gradually slow down after a race as there is during the race
                  > itself. The front legs would be taking on extra weight as they work
                  > to slow down everything behind them. Might make in interesting
                  study
                  > for someone.
                  >
                  > I'm also of the opinion that Barbaro's injury started when he burst
                  > through the gate before his race started. Those gates are held
                  closed
                  > by very strong electromagnets, and it takes a great deal of force
                  to
                  > push through, so he had to extert a great deal of force with his
                  hind
                  > legs just before the race to break through the gate.
                  >
                  > Ruffian's breakdown points more toward genetics. Both her sire and
                  > dam were dead within two years of her death. Reviewer broke a hind
                  > leg in a breeding accident, and after one month in a cast, did
                  > unrepairable damage to it after the cast was changed. Shenanigans
                  > under went colic surgery, and as she was coming to, thrashed about
                  > and broke both front legs (sound familiar?). Both died within a
                  month
                  > of each other, and about 2 years after Ruffian.
                  >
                  > Gerry
                  >
                • Kathy Marshall
                  I noticed he was sore before the race, he had special shoes on, but he wasn t walking correctly. Kathy ... From: Sheila To:
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 5, 2008
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                    I noticed he was sore before the race, he had special shoes on, but he wasn't walking correctly.
                    Kathy
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Sheila
                    Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:13 PM
                    Subject: [equineveterinarymedicine] Re: Derby

                    Did anyone hear it when the announcer said that Big Brown had only
                    ran in three previous races because he has problems with quarter
                    cracks in his hooves? Also, if you have a chance to see a recording
                    of the race and the end of the broadcast, watch Big Brown walking
                    towards the camera after his jockey is off. That is a very sore footed
                    horse. It is really sad that they can't find a way to strengthen his
                    hooves when so many things are available.
                    Sheila

                    --- In equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com, "Kathy Marshall"
                    <marshallkmax@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi, I'm new to your list. I watched the Derby with great reluctance after the Barbaro
                    incident which I followed his progress reports till the end.
                    > The Track Vet said he had never seen this happen before in all the yrs, he had been
                    doing this job. So I don't know what the deal was, I watched her finish the race and she
                    looked fine, and seconds later she was down. Maybe we will here more on the subject. I
                    was very upset about this and will not be watching the Derby anymore.
                    > To my understanding the tracks are all suppose to be changing the turf, but I see
                    Churchill Downs hasn't. This decision brought on by Barbaro's accident. In my opinion
                    these horses are way to young for the stress level put upon there still growing bones and
                    that is why these accidents occur.
                    > Just my opinion!
                    > Kathy
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Lori Lambie
                    > To: equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:50 AM
                    > Subject: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Derby
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly at the derby.
                    How often does that kind of thing happen with both fornt legs like that. I know she was
                    put down but I jus tcan't imagine both fornt legs like that. Was it possibly from a
                    previous injury... I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still don;t
                    understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown races...
                    > Lori Lambie
                    > Scio, Oregon
                    >

                  • Melissa Humphress
                    I used to work on racetracks, to me, riding a two year old is bad enough but to consistently train and train and train such a young horse is unjustifiable. We
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 5, 2008
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                      I used to work on racetracks, to me, riding a two year old is bad enough but to consistently train and train and train such a young horse is unjustifiable.  We used to freeze horses front legs so that they could not feel the pain, if there was pain why were we racing them?  $$$$, it's all about money, it's not for love of the sport, it's for love of money, it's not because the owners and trainers love horses, it's the money.  These gorgeous creatures are expendible, just like Greyhounds, if they don't measure up they're shipped to the feedlots for consumption, either human or other.  There is always a scheme to shoot these horses up with something to speed them up and not be detectible.  Sorry to say that there are veterinarians that do it, like I said, it's all about the money.  I was just a groom, but what I saw on the track opened my eyes to the horrors of the most prestigious sport, it's a scam and it's a shame.

                      Beth Lackey <BethLackey@...> wrote:
                      The filly was shown in it's stall before the race - and I always look for ears forward or working around, alertness, and calmness...Eight Belles was shown and her head was down, my husband (who knows nothing of horses) even stated that she looked downtrodden.  I firmly believe, only by looking at this magnificent filly and then her tragic push to death, that she was overtrained. ...they probably thought she needed more training racing against the colts.  Also, I agree with everyone that says the artificial surface and distance added danger to her overworked bones.  I have always worried about the number of horses on a track during a race - contributing to bumps, legs tangled, etc....I do think that is dangerous... and poor Eight Belles - having someone ride her that she didn't know or trust...what a magnificent animal to perform under all those conditions.. .
                      I saved a 3 year old racehorse... and although he is not rideable, because he bucks from abuse, etc...he loves to run around the pond and arena....but that's natural...and I love watching him do what he loves.  In a derby situation - he would hate it....Beth

                      --- On Sun, 5/4/08, Lori Lambie <lamb@smt-net. com> wrote:
                      From: Lori Lambie <lamb@smt-net. com>
                      Subject: Re: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Re: Derby
                      To: equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com
                      Date: Sunday, May 4, 2008, 11:02 AM

                      I guess all horses should be let free then?   Nothing I provide for my horse is natural... My riding them is certainly not natural...  them being fenced is not natural... i don't have enough land to provide tham with just grass forage...so that is not natural, I have to suppliment w hay and some grainand minerals... I really think that some of your points are legitamate but to say its not natural is silly....everything we humans do to horses is not "natural" 
                      Lori Lambie
                      Scio, Oregon
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:45 AM
                      Subject: Re: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Re: Derby

                      Why did this filly die?
                      Ok - IMO
                      Most trainers feed races horses on un natural feeds resulting in gastric ulcers, growth, bone and other abnormalities, pump them full of chemicals, medication and hormones, shut them in tiny spaces when constant movement is vital for their health, put metal shoes on their feet and block one of natures vital hoof mechanisms resulting in poorer blood circulation, poorer heart health and poorer general health, train and push them well past their endurance or when they still have not finished growing which results in tendon, ligament and joint problems, keep them separated from each other which results in stress and stress related disorders, ask them to carry weights well past their capabilities for short distances at fast speeds when genetically they are evolved to travel long distances at reasonable speeds.....
                       
                      And we wonder why horses limbs fracture or break, hearts give up, spirits die, neurosis increase, ilnesses increase and race horses generally are broken down by the age of 6 maximum????
                       
                      Im not saying all trainers are like this, but I think we all need to have a reality check. Going to the track and betting on a sure thing actually involves a living breathing animal - an animal we dont always - in fact dont often - provide the basic health and life care that any sentient being has a right too.
                      I have never attended a race track and plan never to do so.
                       
                      Im not saying the racing industry is the only one - but boy - it sure has a lot to answer for.

                      On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Andrea Gade <dakotabarbay@ horsemail. com> wrote:
                      Breakdown injuries happen, whether its do to age, track, level of
                      training I'm not sure. These horses are extreme athletes and with that
                      comes the risk that something will go wrong. It rarely happens in both
                      legs, and that's why she was euthanized so quickly...if it had only
                      been one leg, they may have tried to fix the fracture, although her
                      prognosis would have been guarded. One of the fractures was also open
                      (the skin was broken) so that alone decreases the chances of recovering
                      by half. The most inexplainable part is it happened after that race,
                      she wasn't straining her legs at that point and didn't seem painful at
                      all while she was racing...even after the wire she was fine. It was
                      horrific to see, but even worse is understanding the pain of the
                      injury. At least her pain was over quickly, unlike Barabaro. I was
                      rooting for her, what a beautiful, talented filly...

                      Andrea
                      vet student
                      UW SVM class of 2009

                      --- In equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com, "Lori Lambie"
                      <lamb@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly
                      at the derby. How often does that kind of thing happen with both
                      fornt legs like that. I know she was put down but I jus tcan't imagine
                      both fornt legs like that. Was it possibly from a previous
                      injury... I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still
                      don;t understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown
                      races...
                      > Lori Lambie
                      > Scio, Oregon
                      >




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                    • Lori Lambie
                      Yes I did hear that I also noticed that his foot conformation was alittle off... it seemed he toed out alittle I think. Its hard to get a good look at a horse
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 5, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Yes I did hear that I also noticed that his foot conformation was alittle off... it seemed he toed out alittle I think.  Its hard to get a good look at a horse on t.v. they aren't exsactly filming a horse that way.  
                        Lori Lambie
                        Scio, Oregon
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Sheila
                        Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:13 AM
                        Subject: [equineveterinarymedicine] Re: Derby

                        Did anyone hear it when the announcer said that Big Brown had only
                        ran in three previous races because he has problems with quarter
                        cracks in his hooves? Also, if you have a chance to see a recording
                        of the race and the end of the broadcast, watch Big Brown walking
                        towards the camera after his jockey is off. That is a very sore footed
                        horse. It is really sad that they can't find a way to strengthen his
                        hooves when so many things are available.
                        Sheila

                        --- In equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com, "Kathy Marshall"
                        <marshallkmax@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi, I'm new to your list. I watched the Derby with great reluctance after the Barbaro
                        incident which I followed his progress reports till the end.
                        > The Track Vet said he had never seen this happen before in all the yrs, he had been
                        doing this job. So I don't know what the deal was, I watched her finish the race and she
                        looked fine, and seconds later she was down. Maybe we will here more on the subject. I
                        was very upset about this and will not be watching the Derby anymore.
                        > To my understanding the tracks are all suppose to be changing the turf, but I see
                        Churchill Downs hasn't. This decision brought on by Barbaro's accident. In my opinion
                        these horses are way to young for the stress level put upon there still growing bones and
                        that is why these accidents occur.
                        > Just my opinion!
                        > Kathy
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Lori Lambie
                        > To: equineveterinarymed icine@yahoogroup s.com
                        > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:50 AM
                        > Subject: [equineveterinaryme dicine] Derby
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Does anyone have any insight to share on what happened to the filly at the derby.
                        How often does that kind of thing happen with both fornt legs like that. I know she was
                        put down but I jus tcan't imagine both fornt legs like that. Was it possibly from a
                        previous injury... I am always tramatised after seeing these things and I still don;t
                        understand why i keep going back to watch these triple crown races...
                        > Lori Lambie
                        > Scio, Oregon
                        >

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