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Re: Elderly mare has trouble getting up

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  • Renee Ilse
    George, I m so sorry you had to go through this, but you did the right thing. We can t just let them suffer like that, and hurt themselves even more. I m
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 1 8:26 AM
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      George, I'm so sorry you had to go through this, but you did the right thing.  We can't just let them suffer like that, and hurt themselves even more.
       
      I'm appalled at the fact that you couldn't get a vet out - I guess I'm spoiled!  I live in a rural area of Texas, but have 5 vets I can call within a 45 mile radius.  I have always been lucky enough to get at least one when I needed one.  Maybe it would be a good idea to campaign to your state vet school to see if any graduates are willing to come to your area?  Don't know if it would work, but sometimes these grads just don't know where the need is, and I guess most of them go to work for established clinics, but just a thought....


      Renee Ilse, John Lyons Certified Trainer
      and CHA Certified Level 2 Riding Instructor

      Check out my website at www.full-circle-enterprises.com!

      To keep up with the latest activities, join my email group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/full_circle_equestrian/

      Helping people in South Central Texas
      "God forbid I go to a Heaven where there are no horses!"

    • Ingrid Russell
      George, I am so sorry for your loss. You have more courage than I do. I don t know that I could have done what needed to be done like you did. Just
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 1 3:42 PM
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        George, I am so sorry for your loss.  You have more courage than I do.  I don’t know that I could have done what needed to be done like you did.  Just remember, you did what she NEEDED you to do.  You are in my prayers.

         

        Ingrid

         

        russellmorgans@...

         

        Tell a gelding, ask a stallion, and discuss it with a Mare

        "YESTERDAY IS HISTORY, TOMORROW IS A MYSTERY, AND TODAY IS A GIFT;  THATS WHY THEY CALL IT THE PRESENT"

         

      • Sandy
        Hi George, I am so sorry that you have lost your girl. I went through this very thing a few years ago. My old mare had an 8 week old foal at foot when she
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 1 4:30 PM
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          Hi George,
          I am so sorry that you have lost your girl. I went through this
          very thing a few years ago. My old mare had an 8 week old foal at
          foot when she was bitten by a deadly brown snake (here in Aust). By
          the next morning there was nothing to be done and there was no vet
          who could come out.
          I didn't do it myself, but my heart is breaking for your pain at
          having to do it. It rips my heart out every time I lose a pet,
          horse or otherwise, but I think the best way we can repay these
          wonderful friends is by ending their suffering. When we take on the
          responsibilities of feeding, vetting and loving these horses, we
          also take on the other, more harder responsibilities....
          Just know that there are plenty of people who wish that you didn't
          have to do what you did, but in the end, you showed her more love,
          friendship and compassion than a lot of horses are getting these
          days.
          Sandy


          --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "George"
          <cshorser2@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for the info. Unfortunately it's too late to do anything
          for
          > her. I live in Iowa. We're lucky to even find a vet around here
          to
          > do anything. She got a lot worse beginning Saturday night.
          Sunday I
          > called my regular vet who said he was too busy (that's been the
          case
          > all the time lately, and my neighbor said he's gotten the same
          > treatment). I called another vet I have never used, who told me to
          > call on Monday morning, and he'd see if he could come. I called
          yet
          > another who is a long distance away who told me he would come but
          with
          > the distance and being a Sunday, it would cost $500 just to put her
          > down, and said since she has been down for days, just keep her
          > comfortable until I can get a closer vet to come.
        • warmbloedfarms
          Dear George, I am sorry for your loss. I live in South Florida and there are a lot of vets everywhere here. When I moved my horses at some point to
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 2 4:23 AM
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            Dear George,

            I am sorry for your loss. I live in South Florida and there are a lot
            of vets everywhere here. When I moved my horses at some point to
            Pennsylvania for 2 years I was amazed how difficult it was to get a
            vet out there....First I thought the owner of the farm was to lazy to
            get one out there and I tried myself when I went out there for a
            couple of weeks. It was no joke, I was told it was calving season and
            no one was interested in looking at horses. I had to put the horses
            in the trailer and drive them to a vet's home (parked on his front
            lawn in a residential neighborhood), in order to have cogginsblood
            drawn, in order to move them back to Florida!!
            Without that experience I would not have understood your story. A
            couple of years after that I became A Veterinary Nuclear
            Scinitigraphy Technologist in a very famous Equine Hospital in
            Wellington Florida. And gained a lot of inside knowledge regarding
            veterinary medicine and research. When I first read your story it
            seemed like your horse had gotten himself very hurt breaking that
            pipe off his stall door. Sometimes a horse getting stuck on something
            will pull himself loose with a lot of force, and can do a lot of
            damage without realizing at first what he/she did to him/herself.
            Everything hurts and benamine is pretty good at first at taking care
            of the initial pain related to this. When you described the horse
            holding up its hindleg, but being up, that to me was a sign that it
            did do some damage somewhere. When later on it could not get up
            anymore. That is more than likely the injury really setting in. So
            possible nerve/muscle/bone damage will not go away on its own, and
            its is possible that surgery would not have been an option, even if
            you would have been in my area at the best clinic..... Obviously the
            first vet who did come out realized the situation, and gave you the
            correct answer about putting the horse down. And that vet probably
            knows your area and how difficult it can be getting out there.
            At that moment because the horse seemed okay, you decided to wait and
            see if it would recover. It is very hard to believe you have to put a
            horse down, when it looks at you, and seems okay. I have done
            bonescans of horses that where in one piece, not skinny, not abused,
            but living a very pampered live style, and by the time I was done
            with my bonescan, I knew I was looking at a dead horse, with 100%
            certainty. Some of them had been competing as olympic horses, famous
            and beautiful. Being a trainer/competitor/horselover myself it was
            very very difficult sometimes to have this knowledge. Our
            veterinarians live with the fact that they have to do this on a daily
            basis, trying to help the horses, and at times having to put them
            down. It is not easy for them either. But it is their job. They went
            to school for it, and even though sometimes you feel like they could
            be wrong, you also have to accept the fact that more than likely they
            are probably right. Even though the answer is sometimes really not
            what you want to hear. If you are running a rescue facility in such a
            remote area it is possible this will not be your last encounter,
            making difficult discissions. I am amazed you had a book describing
            how to shoot a horse, in case you have to. But I am very happy you
            did, because even though this was very difficult for you, this horse
            could not be saved, I am sure of it. Not at that point, without
            surgery etc. And even then I might not have made it. But when it was
            thrasing around, it was going to die no matter what. And I am very
            relieved that you were able to do it succesfully as you describe.
            After Hurricane Andrew in South Florida I was sent out to help rescue
            horses. Some of the things I saw where horrible, nature has
            incredible force sometimes. I had never seen anything like it, as if
            I was in a warzone. I helped many horses, but heard stories from
            other people. Where they found a nearly dead horse on a road and had
            to shoot it. They were not sure where to shoot, and it would have
            helped a lot if they had the knowledge from your book.
            George, you did what you thought was the right thing to do. Sometimes
            it is hard to accept a vets diagnosis, but next time something
            happens grab your vet while he is there and let his do what he has
            to. It is still easier than having to go through than what you had to
            do. And a farrier is helpful sometimes but not a vet.
            By the way when you said the horses feet were bleeding, that is not
            good either. Without feet a horse is nothing, they need good feet.
            Sometimes just picking out their feet everyday helps airflow, and wil
            deter thrush. There are also products like thrushbuster etc. that you
            can apply that will kill the organisms causing this. A product called
            Venice turpentine, comes in a little can, you can apply, after
            cleaning the hooves real well, and will usuallly stay on for about 2
            weeks. And shields the feet from bad conditions. I used it when my
            horses were in pennsylvania. And it worked very well.
            Well, I hope you are okay. I am trying to share here with you what I
            can think of could possibly help you in the future within your rescue
            operation. I have 32 years of experience in all kinds of horsemanship
            for pleasure as well as professional and I have done a lot of
            research to try and understand and help horses. So I usually just try
            to help horses, and the people owning them. So we can all be happy.
            I had an appaloosa for twenty years, who was my best friend for such
            a long time, that when he finally went it was very different and
            difficult.
            Believe me, I have seen big grown men cry when their horse had to be
            put down. On one such occasion (the horse was very famous also) I
            felt so bad that I asked the man: "Sir, is this the only horse you
            own?'' Fearing the poor guy had to go home to an empty barn, when he
            replied crying his eyes out:"No, I have 30 more at home but this is
            the only one that counts". This was something I never forgot.
            Feel Better.
            Warmbloed, big hug.







            --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, Peggy Phipps


            <targatwo@...> wrote:
            >
            > Where in Iowa are you located? There is an excellent horse vet in
            Eagle Grove and also ISU have good horse vets.
            >
            > George <cshorser2@...> wrote: Thanks for the info.
            Unfortunately it's too late to do anything for
            > her. I live in Iowa. We're lucky to even find a vet around here to
            > do anything. She got a lot worse beginning Saturday night. Sunday I
            > called my regular vet who said he was too busy (that's been the case
            > all the time lately, and my neighbor said he's gotten the same
            > treatment). I called another vet I have never used, who told me to
            > call on Monday morning, and he'd see if he could come. I called yet
            > another who is a long distance away who told me he would come but
            with
            > the distance and being a Sunday, it would cost $500 just to put her
            > down, and said since she has been down for days, just keep her
            > comfortable until I can get a closer vet to come.
            >
            > Monday morning she started kicking the stall walls and got worse and
            > worse. I gave her some pellets, had to hand feed them to her, as
            well
            > as water. Then she started to choke. I cleared that out pretty
            > easily, but when I left the barn she went berzerk. She was smashing
            > her head against the walls and broke some boards and just flipped
            out.
            > This is 3am. I gave a double dose of Banamine but that did not do
            > much. She was breathing real fast and hard. It looked like she was
            > in a panic. I got my rifle and put her out of her misery. I did not
            > think I could do it. I am not a hunter and never shot anything
            larger
            > that a raccoon. But I did it.
            >
            > I am feeling terrible right now, but still know I did the right
            thing.
            > I could not watch her suffer. Before the panic, she did not seem to
            > be in any real pain, but something happened. It's over. It's going
            > to take me some time to recover, but I had to do it. Thank God I had
            > the book "Be your own vet sometimes", which shows where to shoot
            them
            > to cause instant death. I was not sure.... She died instantly but I
            > fired a few more shots to be sure.
            >
            > George
            >
            > --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, tsm693@ wrote:
            > >
            > > My vet could tell by moving him in certain ways and the way he
            > moved. A vet
            > > that has a lot of experience with older horses would be great
            > because this is
            > > fairly common as they get older. Where do you live? Susan
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of
            Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
            >
          • George
            Thanks to EVERYONE that replied and offered sympathy. I d like to reply to everyone but this is for everyone. Thank you. I got her buried now, so I am coping
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 3 2:00 AM
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              Thanks to EVERYONE that replied and offered sympathy. I'd
              like to reply to everyone but this is for everyone. Thank you.
              I got her buried now, so I am coping a little better. Of course
              nothing except time will totally take away the pain. But, I know I
              did what I had to do and did it for her.

              I dont think the stuck leg was the cause. I think she had a stroke or
              something like that, which affected her nervous system or brain. I
              think thats why she had these convultions at the end. I know old age
              was a big part too.

              The person that told me to put her down was not a certified vet, but
              an Amish vet, who is not certified, although I think he's almost as
              good as most certified vets, and much more caring of not only the
              horse, but the owner too. Every vet around here only thinks about
              dollars, dont seem to care much about the animal, and dont care at all
              about the owner. We have 3 vet clinics. One only does small animals,
              another only does cattle and small animals, the the 3rd does
              everything, but almost everytime I call him, he's too busy to come.
              He is a halfway ok with horses, but once it's anything complicated, he
              says to call this woman vet who is 30 miles away. She's a nasty
              bitchy person who no one can stand. She finds fault with everything
              everyone does and bitches at the owner the entire time she is there.
              On top of that, she's very expensive, and will not come for
              emergencies, just comes if she is in the area. There is one more vet,
              but he works out of his home and does not take new customers, unless
              they are a large and wealthy horse ranch or dairy operation. There is
              one more vet clinic in another town about 35 miles away. I never used
              them before, but they're the one that I finally called on Sunday to
              put her down. He told me that to come on Sunday would cost me $300 to
              $500, but if I wait till monday it will be under $100.

              That's all we have for vets, and as you can see, there really are none
              for horses, at least none that are reliable. Whoever said to contact
              a vet college and see if anyone could come here, thats a good idea.
              We need a horse vet badly. I'm even considering moving because of the
              lack of vets. That Amish guy is actually the best help I can get.
              The problem is that he dont have any supplies, meds, or any of that.

              As far as the book with the "where to shoot" chart, the book is called
              "How to be Your Own Vet (sometimes)". I find it to be one of the best
              books for horse vetting.

              Anyhow, I will share a little positive thing. I call it a small
              miracle. I actually got more upset later in the day on Monday than I
              did when I shot her. I guess it took awhile to hit me. Anyhow, on
              Monday I went to sleep mid day from exhaustion. When I woke up it was
              night, and I was several hours late for feeding. I fed the horses
              and went to check on one group of horses that have a round bale, so I
              dont have to do anything except check them and their water. It's
              really dark where their shed is. I went down there in the mud and
              they were all fine. I was starting to walk away when a pony mare came
              up to me really fast. This older pony is normally slow, and although
              she likes to come by me, she's always hard to catch. Not this time.
              She came over and stood right next to me, and started rubbing her head
              against me. It was cold, with very high wind. I was in front of
              their shed when she came to me. All of a sudden she took her head and
              pushed me into the shed. She kept pushing until I was in the back
              corner. Once in the corner, she wrapped herself around me, put her
              muzzle against my face and licked my cheek. I could feel her warm
              breath against my face as she put her head on my shoulder and pulled
              me closer, pulling my head beneath her neck where she help me. Then
              real slowly she rubbed her head against my face and head. I could
              feel the cold blowing in the cracks of the shed, but she was warm, and
              she just got closer as if she was hugging me. I became so relaxed
              that I snoozed off. When I woke up, I had my head against her
              forelock, and my hands under her mane to keep them warm, and it was
              over 2 hours later.

              She was not nearby when I shot the horse, she did not see it happen.
              Yet, she knew how much I was hurting, and she knew just what to do to
              make me feel better. How did she know? I've always liked that pony,
              but most of the time she's sassy and playful. This time she was
              affectionate and determined to make me feel better. Once she boldly
              pushed me into that corner, she was so very gentle, loving, and
              relaxing. It's almost like she hypnotized me. I'll never forget
              those moments I spent with her. I've never felt anything like it.
              How did she know?

              She's gotten some special attention from me ever since.

              George

              ============


              --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "warmbloedfarms"
              <warmbloedfarms@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear George,
              >
              > I am sorry for your loss. I live in South Florida and there are a lot
              > of vets everywhere here. When I moved my horses at some point to
              > Pennsylvania for 2 years I was amazed how difficult it was to get a
              > vet out there....First I thought the owner of the farm was to lazy to
              > get one out there and I tried myself when I went out there for a
              > couple of weeks. It was no joke, I was told it was calving season and
              > no one was interested in looking at horses. I had to put the horses
              > in the trailer and drive them to a vet's home (parked on his front
              > lawn in a residential neighborhood), in order to have cogginsblood
              > drawn, in order to move them back to Florida!!
              > Without that experience I would not have understood your story. A
              > couple of years after that I became A Veterinary Nuclear
              > Scinitigraphy Technologist in a very famous Equine Hospital in
              > Wellington Florida. And gained a lot of inside knowledge regarding
              > veterinary medicine and research. When I first read your story it
              > seemed like your horse had gotten himself very hurt breaking that
              > pipe off his stall door. Sometimes a horse getting stuck on something
              > will pull himself loose with a lot of force, and can do a lot of
              > damage without realizing at first what he/she did to him/herself.
              > Everything hurts and benamine is pretty good at first at taking care
              > of the initial pain related to this. When you described the horse
              > holding up its hindleg, but being up, that to me was a sign that it
              > did do some damage somewhere. When later on it could not get up
              > anymore. That is more than likely the injury really setting in. So
              > possible nerve/muscle/bone damage will not go away on its own, and
              > its is possible that surgery would not have been an option, even if
              > you would have been in my area at the best clinic..... Obviously the
              > first vet who did come out realized the situation, and gave you the
              > correct answer about putting the horse down. And that vet probably
              > knows your area and how difficult it can be getting out there.
              > At that moment because the horse seemed okay, you decided to wait and
              > see if it would recover. It is very hard to believe you have to put a
              > horse down, when it looks at you, and seems okay. I have done
              > bonescans of horses that where in one piece, not skinny, not abused,
              > but living a very pampered live style, and by the time I was done
              > with my bonescan, I knew I was looking at a dead horse, with 100%
              > certainty. Some of them had been competing as olympic horses, famous
              > and beautiful. Being a trainer/competitor/horselover myself it was
              > very very difficult sometimes to have this knowledge. Our
              > veterinarians live with the fact that they have to do this on a daily
              > basis, trying to help the horses, and at times having to put them
              > down. It is not easy for them either. But it is their job. They went
              > to school for it, and even though sometimes you feel like they could
              > be wrong, you also have to accept the fact that more than likely they
              > are probably right. Even though the answer is sometimes really not
              > what you want to hear. If you are running a rescue facility in such a
              > remote area it is possible this will not be your last encounter,
              > making difficult discissions. I am amazed you had a book describing
              > how to shoot a horse, in case you have to. But I am very happy you
              > did, because even though this was very difficult for you, this horse
              > could not be saved, I am sure of it. Not at that point, without
              > surgery etc. And even then I might not have made it. But when it was
              > thrasing around, it was going to die no matter what. And I am very
              > relieved that you were able to do it succesfully as you describe.
              > After Hurricane Andrew in South Florida I was sent out to help rescue
              > horses. Some of the things I saw where horrible, nature has
              > incredible force sometimes. I had never seen anything like it, as if
              > I was in a warzone. I helped many horses, but heard stories from
              > other people. Where they found a nearly dead horse on a road and had
              > to shoot it. They were not sure where to shoot, and it would have
              > helped a lot if they had the knowledge from your book.
              > George, you did what you thought was the right thing to do. Sometimes
              > it is hard to accept a vets diagnosis, but next time something
              > happens grab your vet while he is there and let his do what he has
              > to. It is still easier than having to go through than what you had to
              > do. And a farrier is helpful sometimes but not a vet.
              > By the way when you said the horses feet were bleeding, that is not
              > good either. Without feet a horse is nothing, they need good feet.
              > Sometimes just picking out their feet everyday helps airflow, and wil
              > deter thrush. There are also products like thrushbuster etc. that you
              > can apply that will kill the organisms causing this. A product called
              > Venice turpentine, comes in a little can, you can apply, after
              > cleaning the hooves real well, and will usuallly stay on for about 2
              > weeks. And shields the feet from bad conditions. I used it when my
              > horses were in pennsylvania. And it worked very well.
              > Well, I hope you are okay. I am trying to share here with you what I
              > can think of could possibly help you in the future within your rescue
              > operation. I have 32 years of experience in all kinds of horsemanship
              > for pleasure as well as professional and I have done a lot of
              > research to try and understand and help horses. So I usually just try
              > to help horses, and the people owning them. So we can all be happy.
              > I had an appaloosa for twenty years, who was my best friend for such
              > a long time, that when he finally went it was very different and
              > difficult.
              > Believe me, I have seen big grown men cry when their horse had to be
              > put down. On one such occasion (the horse was very famous also) I
              > felt so bad that I asked the man: "Sir, is this the only horse you
              > own?'' Fearing the poor guy had to go home to an empty barn, when he
              > replied crying his eyes out:"No, I have 30 more at home but this is
              > the only one that counts". This was something I never forgot.
              > Feel Better.
              > Warmbloed, big hug.
              >
            • warmbloedfarms
              -Dear George, You did what you had to. Dont feel bad, you should be proud of yourself right now for having the guts to do what you did. Nobody will look at it
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 3 4:14 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                -Dear George,
                You did what you had to. Dont feel bad, you should be proud of
                yourself right now for having the guts to do what you did.
                Nobody will look at it differently, except people without horses.
                Its over now. And your horses is in much greener pastures than we
                can ever image.
                Take care,
                warmbloed.




                -- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy"
                <sandradarryn@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi George,
                > I am so sorry that you have lost your girl. I went through this
                > very thing a few years ago. My old mare had an 8 week old foal at
                > foot when she was bitten by a deadly brown snake (here in Aust).
                By
                > the next morning there was nothing to be done and there was no vet
                > who could come out.
                > I didn't do it myself, but my heart is breaking for your pain at
                > having to do it. It rips my heart out every time I lose a pet,
                > horse or otherwise, but I think the best way we can repay these
                > wonderful friends is by ending their suffering. When we take on
                the
                > responsibilities of feeding, vetting and loving these horses, we
                > also take on the other, more harder responsibilities....
                > Just know that there are plenty of people who wish that you didn't
                > have to do what you did, but in the end, you showed her more love,
                > friendship and compassion than a lot of horses are getting these
                > days.
                > Sandy
                >
                >
                > --- In equineveterinarymedicine@yahoogroups.com, "George"
                > <cshorser2@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks for the info. Unfortunately it's too late to do anything
                > for
                > > her. I live in Iowa. We're lucky to even find a vet around here
                > to
                > > do anything. She got a lot worse beginning Saturday night.
                > Sunday I
                > > called my regular vet who said he was too busy (that's been the
                > case
                > > all the time lately, and my neighbor said he's gotten the same
                > > treatment). I called another vet I have never used, who told me
                to
                > > call on Monday morning, and he'd see if he could come. I called
                > yet
                > > another who is a long distance away who told me he would come but
                > with
                > > the distance and being a Sunday, it would cost $500 just to put
                her
                > > down, and said since she has been down for days, just keep her
                > > comfortable until I can get a closer vet to come.
                >
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