Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Prelude to Crash

Expand Messages
  • Richard C. Duncan
    Congratulations to Lise Maring, Bruce Thomson, and Kendrick Holder for their bold and clear thinking. I think most readers will agree that it s best to be
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 24, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Congratulations to Lise Maring, Bruce Thomson, and Kendrick Holder for their
      bold and clear thinking.

      I think most readers will agree that it's best to be realistic when
      navigating the treacherous Strait of Messina (between the rock of Energy
      Depletion and the of whirlpool Overpopulation). Realism is crucial. So is
      the optimism (i.e. confidence) that you can be a Darwinian survivor. In that
      regard, Bruce Thomson's scenario (i.e. Message #4, Digest #214, copied
      below) is, IMO, realistic and fully consistent with Jay Hanson's dieoff and
      my Olduvai Theory.

      My presentation to the Petroleum Technology Transfer Council, "Crude Oil
      Production and Prices: A Look Ahead at OPEC Decision Making Process," last
      Friday in Bakersfield, California ended with a Prelude to the Olduvai crash
      (pages 12-14, the scenario pasted below):

      ------------------------
      BEGIN EXCERPT OF PTTC PRESENTATION:
      >
      > 12. THE ROAD AHEAD
      >
      > The Road Ahead, based on the information in sections 2-11 above, IMO, leads
      > directly to war in the Middle East ‹ in a matter of months, not years. Oil
      > prices will skyrocket. Chaos will spread far and wide. Desperate leaders
      > will take desperate measures. The following scenario, of course, is 100%
      > fiction ‹ but it does convey the magnitude of the problems we face.
      >
      > Scenario: Early 2001. War breaks out in the Middle East when an agreement
      > for the sovereignty of Al Quds (East Jerusalem) fails for the umpteenth
      > time. Terror strikes Jerusalem. The police are overwhelmed. The
      > conflagration jumps to Tel Aviv and Amman ‹ then sweeps westward. Athens
      > and Rome erupt. Moscow too. Explosions rip Berlin, Madrid, Paris and
      > London. Dublin is not spared. Then it leaps across the Atlantic to New York
      > and Washington DC. Even Seattle forgets the WTO riots. Meanwhile oil prices
      > go ballistic ‹ $100 plus per barrel. Gas stations, supermarkets and stores
      > are looted. World leaders panic. "UN" stealth bombers strike "suspected
      > terrorist sites" in Tripoli and Baghdad. It's stealth bombers versus
      > "stealth bombers", but the latter quickly gain the upper hand. The Sixth
      > and Seventh Fleets join the Fifth Fleet in the Persian Gulf. "UN"
      > paratroopers occupy all of the oil fields and refineries in the Middle
      > East. Banks of Patriot missiles ring Jerusalem. Helicopter gunships hit
      > Gaza and Jericho. Israeli "peacekeepers" secure Palestine. Wall Street
      > plummets 70% in one day. CUT
      >
      > Complete speculation, but it could happen.

      > 13. SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS

      [snip ]

      > ... Regarding 'spare capacity': OPEC Chairman
      > Ali Rodriquez on 11 September 2000 emphasized, "World oil production
      > capacity is reaching its limit." Regarding oil prices: Dr. Walter
      > Youngquist on 10 September 2000 encapsulated the consensus of several
      > experts, "It's going to be a seller's market from now on. With
      > firm-to-higher prices and steady demand for all the oil that can be
      > produced." Agreed, World oil production is near its limit and prices will
      > rise. In a more dramatic scenario, however, I believe that the World oil
      > data, the oil forecasts and OPEC's hegemony of World oil exports ‹ combined
      > with the "key-to-peace-and-war" deadlock over East Jerusalem ‹ all indicate
      > that war is imminent in the Middle East. Consequently oil prices will be
      > highly volatile ‹ perhaps hitting $100 or more per barrel‹ during the
      > coming months.

      > Bottom line: The Road Ahead, IMO, leads directly to war in the Middle East
      > and beyond ‹ causing severe shortages of oil and staggering prices for oil
      > and oil products.

      END EXCERPT.
      -------------------------

      COMMENTS:

      1. Nobody in the PTTC audience disagreed with the War in the M.E. scenario
      and highly volatile oil prices, as pasted above.

      2. In fact, an Arab-born man (a petroleum professional) in the audience
      completely agreed, saying, "Yes. The path the US and UN are on definitely
      leads to war in the Middle East. But I don't think it will spread worldwide
      as you suggest."

      3. The tales of woe from the "small independent producers" were heart
      rending indeed. For example, to forestall the inexorable depletion of the
      their oil wells it was proposed (1) to increase the efficiency of the use of
      electricity at the well sites (a BIG $ problem now in S. Calif.), (2) to
      "wash" the aging bore holes with [sic] 4,200 gallons of hydrochloric acid
      per hole to clean out the "gunk" that's blocking the flow of oil. So-called
      "Acid Stimulation Treatment to Sustain Production", (3) "DOE's Cost Share
      Program", (4) "Reservoir Simulation", (5) "Oil Well Wireless Monitoring",
      (6) "Short Radius Lateral Drilling", and other desperate (and costly and
      temporary) measures.

      4. But there was good news too. The higher prices for oil should keep the
      small independents in business for a few years longer.

      5. A Clinton & Gore Funny: One PTTC speaker cited a study that put the cost
      of 1 barrel of oil from the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) at $60 per
      barrel (i.e. purchase price + storage + maintenance costs). So Clinton &
      Gore are going to bring down the present price of $34 per barrel oil by
      selling 30 million barrels of oil that cost the US Government $60 per
      barrel. Ho! Ho! Ho! The oilmen roared.

      6. My keynote presentation to the Geological Society of America "Summit
      2000" (Reno, 13 November) will feature World oil Forecast #5 and the Olduvai
      Theory. All I can say for now is that -- SURPRISE -- the proximate cause of
      the Thomson-Dieoff-Olduvai crash will neither the oil crisis nor
      overpopulation. Tune in tomorrow .........

      Meanwhile: Take care, avoid stress, and have fun.

      Rich Duncan

      -------------------------------------------
      FROM DIGEST #214:
      >
      > Message: 4
      > Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:23:40 -0400
      > From: Bruce Thomson <bruce@...>
      > Subject: Re: Digest Number 210
      >
      > At 02:30 AM 9/22/2000 +0000, you wrote:
      >>. Seems to me we
      >>need to start thinking in new ways to meet this challenge. Either that, or
      >>we just sit back, let it all crash, and start all over again........which,
      >>come to think of it, might not be a bad idea either.
      >>Lise
      >
      > Lise, my dear pen pal...
      >
      > Only if you forget to imagine the sickening, degrading horror of the coming
      > holocaust of energy crash can you be fatalistic or casual about just
      > letting it crash without acting against it.
      >
      > Here's some concepts that might make us more sober and diligent. These
      > things are not to be accepted, but must be foreseen, resisted, fought hard
      > now and delayed:
      >
      > - Millions of Americans and Canadians shocked, out of work, hopeless and
      > depressed.
      > - Thousands freezing to death in gloomy homes, thousands dying in
      > unrelieved city heat.
      > - Unlit, dangerous streets. Boarded up shops. Beggars, bodies. White
      > Calcutta everywhere.
      > - Day and night terror of murder, home invasions, organized criminals,
      > protection rackets.
      > - Martial law: Fake media, casual speech dangerous, authoritarian torture,
      > murder of family/friends
      > - All today's elegant shops neglected, dim, shabby caves, bare of goods,
      > sparse people. Queues.
      > - Squalid parks full of hopeless, dirty, sick, bored people, including
      > people we know, and maybe us.
      > - Crammed hospitals with no resources. Unrelieved sickness, infections,
      > excruciating pain.
      > - Stinking air pollution as the public burns even park trees, fences,
      > benches, used oil, for warmth.
      > - Destruction of forests, bushes, anything burnable. Same for wildlife,
      > anything edible.
      > - Dilapidated buildings, roads.
      >
      > It's real.
      > It's coming.
      > Let's make our lives meaningful by fighting it with everything we've got,
      > to at least delay it.
      >
      > BT
      >
      > -----------------------------------------------------------------
      > Bruce Thomson bruce@...
      > 777 Craven Road, Toronto ON Canada
      > (416) 778-7799
      > -----------------------------------------------------------------

      >
      > Message: 21
      > Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:30:31 EDT
      > From: KHo33333@...
      > Subject: Re: Digest Number 210
      >
      > To: Bruce Thompson
      > I cannot disagree with you regarding your graphic description of the
      > "die-off". In the face of this catastrophe I think the industrialized nations
      > of the world will likely turn to their last resort: Nuclear Power. Nukes
      > are
      > dangerous (reactor safety), produced tons of dangerous waste and
      > inevitably lead to more nuclear weapons (proliferation). Solar Farms
      > appear to be prohibitively expensive (Solar Two produced electricity at
      > 12-14 cents per kwh before the cost of conversion to hydrogen and
      > transmission by special pipelines - special thick pipelines are required
      > for hydrogen). Everyone likes solar. It is clean and safe but it does not
      > appear to be economically feasible. Nuclear power is reasonably
      > economical and can be sited where it is needed. When people are
      > starving and freezing to death in the dark they are not going to worry
      > very much about nuclear safety. Kendrick Holder
      >
      > P.S. I have always been opposed to nuclear power.
      >
      >
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      FROM DIGEST #210:
      >
      > Message: 24
      > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:51:39 EDT
      > From: "Lise Maring" <lonewolf1366@...>
      > Subject: Re: The dieoff
      >
      > Just an observation from a sporadic contributor, and some pre-coffee
      > ramblings that might trigger some ideas from the engineering folks out
      > there.
      >
      > I get the feeling that this list is changing and starting to look more like
      > the Running on Empty list. Is it true then, that all possible energy
      > sources have been analyzed and rejected as replacements for fossil fuels?
      > If so, it would appear that the main work of this list has been
      > accomplished, and the final analysis is not good news for the human race?
      >
      > So, okay, are we saying that there is no energy source that will totally
      > (globally)and seamlessly replace fossil fuel so a change-over will be
      > 'invisible to the user'? What, then, is the next possibility? Maybe have
      > regional energy sources? We know wind energy works in some areas,
      > hydroelectric is in place in others. Coal might still be the way to go in
      > other places. Should we be thinking locally instead of globally? Should we
      > be thinking about setting up cores of energy sources that we can expand
      > from? What would it take to power NYC alone, for example. Could the
      > smaller towns have their own sources? I keep thinking of that book "Small
      > is Beautiful" by E.F. Schumacher.
      >
      > Well, I'm not an energy source expert nor an engineer. So, just consider
      > these the rantings of an 'uneducated' person but, seems to me, there must be
      > some middle ground, assuming there's time to do it, between having to have a
      > global source and a world where its everyone for themselves. Seems to me we
      > need to start thinking in new ways to meet this challenge. Either that, or
      > we just sit back, let it all crash, and start all over again........which,
      > come to think of it, might not be a bad idea either.
      >
      > Lise
      >
    • Oliver
      ... This scenario seems to me the likeliest doom-and-gloom scenario. A war in the middle-east would, I think, be the single worst thing one could
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 25, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In energyresources@egroups.com, "Richard C. Duncan"
        <duncanrc@h...> wrote:
        > [...]
        > ------------------------
        > BEGIN EXCERPT OF PTTC PRESENTATION:
        > > [...]
        > > The Road Ahead, based on the information in sections 2-11 above,
        > > IMO, leads directly to war in the Middle East ‹ in a matter of
        > > months, not years.

        This scenario seems to me the likeliest "doom-and-gloom" scenario.
        A war in the middle-east would, I think, be the single worst thing
        one could realistically come up with, primarily because of the
        impact on oil extraction and transport. I could imagine the use
        of nuclear weapons, though I don't know how likely this is; not
        entirely important, but a risk.

        > > [...]
        > > conflagration jumps to Tel Aviv and Amman ‹ then sweeps
        westward.
        > > Athens and Rome erupt. Moscow too. Explosions rip Berlin, Madrid,
        > > Paris and London. Dublin is not spared. Then it leaps across the
        > > Atlantic to New York and Washington DC.

        How do you see this developing (the "leap across the Atlantic")?
        I could imagine domestic terrorism attempts in the event the
        Americans send aid to the Israelis. I suppose if the Americans
        use force in keeping the oil flowing, it would have the same effect.
        Domestic terrorism doesn't seem particularly important if the flow
        of oil is greatly disrupted. The strategic reserves of the US would
        be quickly depleted in this case (consider that the reserves now
        hold 570 million barrels; assuming continued domestic extraction and
        imports from South America, I'd estimate the reserves would be
        depleted in less than two months if middle east oil stopped flowing
        for that long).

        > > Wall Street plummets 70% in one day.

        Good time to sell short... ;)

        > 2. In fact, an Arab-born man (a petroleum professional) in the
        > audience completely agreed, saying, "Yes. The path the US and UN
        > are on definitely leads to war in the Middle East. But I don't
        > think it will spread worldwide as you suggest."

        I think it could go either way, but in any event, the effects of a
        war in the middle east would be devestating. Infrastructure damage
        may be unrepairable. It doesn't take much to realize that attacking
        the oil extraction/transport infrastructure is a great way to attack
        the US; much simpler and more effective than coming to the US to
        attack domestic targets.

        > 5. A Clinton & Gore Funny: One PTTC speaker cited a study that put
        > the cost of 1 barrel of oil from the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve
        > (SPR) at $60 per barrel (i.e. purchase price + storage +
        > maintenance costs). So Clinton & Gore are going to bring down the
        > present price of $34 per barrel oil by selling 30 million barrels
        > of oil that cost the US Government $60 per barrel. Ho! Ho! Ho! The
        > oilmen roared.

        Details, details :)

        There hasn't been much talk on the list about the release of oil
        from the SPR. I was thinking about it a bit, and came to the same
        general conclusion as stated above. Replacing that oil (much of which
        was probably purchased when oil was cheaper) will likely not be
        easy. It also will have the negative effect of lowering (for a time)
        the price of oil, increasing demand (at least not helping to
        decrease it), reducing incentive to make further investments in
        infrastructure (how long does it take to build a new oil tanker,
        by the way; would a sensible oil company invest in adding
        significantly to their infrastructure given that outlook for the
        next 2-5 years?)

        > [...]
        > Meanwhile: Take care, avoid stress, and have fun.

        And maybe learn how to skin a squirrel and make a fire by friction...

        Cheers
        Oliver
      • Gray Brechin
        ... The likelihood of a nuclear war in the middle-east is, unfortunately, very likely if things get hot. You may remember that during the Gulf War when Iraqui
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 25, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          >--- In energyresources@egroups.com, "Richard C. Duncan"
          ><duncanrc@h...> wrote:
          >> [...]
          >> ------------------------
          >> BEGIN EXCERPT OF PTTC PRESENTATION:
          >> > [...]
          >> > The Road Ahead, based on the information in sections 2-11 above,
          >> > IMO, leads directly to war in the Middle East - in a matter of
          >> > months, not years.
          >
          >This scenario seems to me the likeliest "doom-and-gloom" scenario.
          >A war in the middle-east would, I think, be the single worst thing
          >one could realistically come up with, primarily because of the
          >impact on oil extraction and transport. I could imagine the use
          >of nuclear weapons, though I don't know how likely this is; not
          >entirely important, but a risk.

          The likelihood of a nuclear war in the middle-east is, unfortunately, very
          likely if things get hot. You may remember that during the Gulf War when
          Iraqui missiles were falling on Israel people everywhere were holding their
          breaths that the Israelis would not do IT (though IT remained unspecified).
          The likelihood of such a catastrophe, along with the covert international
          politics of mutual extortion, are spelled out in Mark Gaffney's book
          DIMONA: THE THIRD TEMPLE? THE STORY BEHIND THE VANUNU REVELATION.

          That is why Mordechai Vanunu is still being held incommunicado in an
          Israeli prison lest he spill the nuclear beans, despite the international
          movement to have him freed after his abduction from Italy.
        • Networking for a Common Future in Sustai
          At 06:28 PM 25/09/00 -0800, Someone on the list (I lost the name, apologies) wrote about Richard C. Duncan s presentation of a gloom and doom PTTC presentation
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 27, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            At 06:28 PM 25/09/00 -0800, Someone on the list (I lost the name,
            apologies) wrote about Richard C. Duncan's presentation of a gloom and doom
            PTTC presentation of a scenario of our future and to Richard's
            comment:"This scenario seems to me the likeliest "doom-and-gloom" scenario.
            A war in the middle-east would, I think, be the single worst thing one
            could realistically come up with, primarily because of the impact on oil
            extraction and transport. I could imagine the use of nuclear weapons,
            though I don't know how likely this is; not entirely important, but a risk."
            "The likelihood of a nuclear war in the middle-east is, unfortunately, very
            likely if things get hot. You may remember that during the Gulf War when
            Iraqui missiles were falling on Israel people everywhere were holding their
            breaths that the Israelis would not do IT (though IT remained unspecified).
            The likelihood of such a catastrophe, along with the covert international
            politics of mutual extortion, are spelled out in Mark Gaffney's book
            DIMONA: THE THIRD TEMPLE? THE STORY BEHIND THE VANUNU REVELATION."

            My comment: Can't we put less emphasis on the gloom and doom to try and
            find ways to avoid it? This requires in depth critical review of everything
            we (persons of no importance spread thinly around the world) consider as
            normal in our ways of life, with a view to change them ASAP at no further
            risks of compounding the exiting mess...

            Is this not a worthwhile challenge, even if we may find that it cannot be
            won in the end?

            Best regards


            Yves Bajard
          • perry arnett
            ... those who emphasize what you call gloom and doom are only emphasizing what they call reality ; Perry
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 27, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              >
              > My comment: Can't we put less emphasis on the gloom and doom to try and
              > find ways to avoid it?


              those who emphasize what you call "gloom and doom" are only emphasizing what
              they call 'reality';

              Perry
            • Oliver
              ... That would have been me. ... Actually, I think the particular scenario Richard mentioned and I tend to agree with has little to do with anyone outside the
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 27, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In energyresources@egroups.com, Networking for a Common Future in
                Sustainability <ncfs@i...> wrote:
                > At 06:28 PM 25/09/00 -0800, Someone on the list (I lost the name,
                > apologies) wrote about Richard C. Duncan's presentation of a gloom
                > and doom PTTC presentation of a scenario of our future and to
                > Richard's comment:"This scenario seems to me the likeliest
                > "doom-and-gloom" scenario.
                > [...]

                That would have been me.

                > [...]
                > My comment: Can't we put less emphasis on the gloom and doom to try
                > and find ways to avoid it?

                Actually, I think the particular scenario Richard mentioned and I
                tend to agree with has little to do with anyone outside the middle
                east, and almost nothing to do with energy resources. I really have
                no answers for those people, except that they perhaps try to
                cooperate with each other (I'm thinking of Israelis and Palestinians
                right now); obviously, since I tend to agree with Richard's
                assessment, I don't believe this will happen.

                Cheers
                Oliver
              • Networking for a Common Future in Sustai
                Perrry ety al. I know full well, and we should by now all know it. However, there is a difference between (1) spending considerable time wringing one s hands
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 27, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Perrry ety al.

                  I know full well, and we should by now all know it. However, there is a
                  difference between (1) spending considerable time wringing one's hands
                  while repeating what is well known already about that reality and (2) doing
                  something realistically possible about it.

                  Fort me, although this is noton this list, I think that I am doing
                  something constructive. I alluded to it sometime ago, before being silenced
                  (fortunately) but those who wanted very justly this list to remain within
                  its initial purpose have been in direct communication with me and I will
                  reply to them in a couple of days.


                  Best regards,

                  Yves Bajard

                  , At 01:57 PM 27/09/00 -0600, perry arnett wrote:
                  > >
                  > > My comment: Can't we put less emphasis on the gloom and doom to try and
                  > > find ways to avoid it?
                  >
                  >
                  >those who emphasize what you call "gloom and doom" are only emphasizing what
                  >they call 'reality';
                  >
                  >Perry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Your message didn't show up on the list? See http://dieoff.com/FAQ.htm
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.