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Re: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question

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  • Jacob Lund Fisker
    ... For an isothermal process the energy (barring friction etc.) is just NkT ln(V_end/V_start) or nRT ln(V_end/V_start) k is Boltzmann s constant, R is the gas
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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      On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 05:52:09AM -0800, Ron Patterson wrote:

      > But I have no idea how much energy this would take or even how
      > high you can pressurize hydrogen? I have read that this would

      For an isothermal process the energy (barring friction etc.) is
      just

      NkT ln(V_end/V_start)

      or

      nRT ln(V_end/V_start)

      k is Boltzmann's constant, R is the gas constant. N is the number
      of H2 molecules, n is their concentration. V are the volumes.

      As the process is isothermal you just divide by T to get the entropy
      increase.

      Caveats: Industrially one may not have the time to ensure a reversible
      process - this will increase entropy generation, but not energy
      requirements. However, the lack of a large cold reservoir in turn will
      probably require some cooling increasing energy requirements, and entropy
      generation for the heat engine which does the cooling.

      --
      Jacob Lund Fisker
      PGP-key:0xF94C6234 at www.keyserver.net
      http://quasar.physik.unibas.ch/~fisker/401/oil/oil.html
    • Andrew MacKillop
      DINOSAURS Does any member of this group have articles, information, views or comments about DINOSAURS and their relation to Fossil Energy Civilization ? Those
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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        DINOSAURS

        Does any member of this group have articles, information, views or comments
        about DINOSAURS and their relation to Fossil Energy Civilization ?
        Those ole Sauriens can hardly be symbols of 'awareness', but how come they
        got to be cult image/icons in the space of maybe 15 years? Is this a Dark
        Bond between Fossil Energy Citizenry and the geological age that made our
        wonderful world possible? Or good marketing by Spielberg & Co?

        Please contact me if you have ideas

        A McKillop
      • Jack Dingler
        Would there really be so great a philosophical or symbolic difference between using crude and refined oil? If so, what would it be? Jack Dingler
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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          Would there really be so great a philosophical or symbolic difference
          between using crude and refined oil? If so, what would it be?

          Jack Dingler

          --- In energyresources@y..., "S Morningthunder" <mthunder@g...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: b [mailto:b@...]
          > > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:04 PM
          > > To: S Morningthunder
          > > Subject: Re: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness
          > >
          > > Great idea. I wouldn't wear one myself but a
          > > bottle of the stuff (crude oil) sitting on my desk may carry
          > > the same philosophical weight.
          >
          > I've got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped
          > 20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that
          > inspired me to try and do the same, but the effort wound up becoming
          > jewelry instead. I couldn't contract a paperweight for under $20, and
          > worked toward mastering the technique, but haven't gotten it yet.
          >
          > The jewelry, though, is more "beared upon the chest before the world".
          >
          > >
          > > How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
          > >
          > It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
          > who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
          > $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
          > its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.
          >
          > You might try driving through west texas and buying it directly from a
          > stripper owner. That is what I was going to do if I failed in Mexico.
          > Or perhaps "Thompson's reference" would provide a lead.
          >
          > --
          > The harsh times approach. It is the lack of preparation which fills me
          > with concern and anxiety, for we assume that we shall gather wood and
          > slay game when the wind is white with winter.
          >
          > Steve Morningthunder
          >
          > mthunder@g...
          > http://greatchange.org
        • b
          Hi S, ... SM It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone SM who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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            Hi S,

            Thursday, November 21, 2002, 12:42:03 AM, you wrote:


            >> How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
            >>
            SM> It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
            SM> who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
            SM> $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
            SM> its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.

            See my request to BP educational services posted earlier

            b
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