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RE: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness

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  • S Morningthunder
    ... I ve got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped 20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that inspired me to
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 20, 2002
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: b [mailto:b@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:04 PM
      > To: S Morningthunder
      > Subject: Re: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness
      >
      > Great idea. I wouldn't wear one myself but a
      > bottle of the stuff (crude oil) sitting on my desk may carry
      > the same philosophical weight.

      I've got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped
      20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that
      inspired me to try and do the same, but the effort wound up becoming
      jewelry instead. I couldn't contract a paperweight for under $20, and
      worked toward mastering the technique, but haven't gotten it yet.

      The jewelry, though, is more "beared upon the chest before the world".

      >
      > How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
      >
      It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
      who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
      $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
      its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.

      You might try driving through west texas and buying it directly from a
      stripper owner. That is what I was going to do if I failed in Mexico.
      Or perhaps "Thompson's reference" would provide a lead.

      --
      The harsh times approach. It is the lack of preparation which fills me
      with concern and anxiety, for we assume that we shall gather wood and
      slay game when the wind is white with winter.

      Steve Morningthunder

      mthunder@...
      http://greatchange.org
    • S Morningthunder
      ... No, I didn t leave it out. And, this is before taking into consideration the entire energy cost. It goes back to our dinosaur blood spooner. You ve got to
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 20, 2002
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        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Ron Patterson [mailto:readyourdarwin@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:52 AM
        > To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question
        >
        >
        > Steve Morningthunder wrote:
        > >>>I made my effort at
        > http://greatchange.org/bb-electricity.html which
        > includes a link to "entire energy cost" where the additional
        > energy thatit would take is treated.<<<
        >
        > Steve, loved your math on the cost of converting electricity
        > to hydrogen but have you not left out a step, the delivery
        > system? Hydrogen, when it is generated is at ambient
        > temperature and pressure. In this form it is absolutely useless to us.

        No, I didn't leave it out.


        "And, this is before taking into consideration the entire energy cost.
        It goes back to our dinosaur blood spooner. You've got to build the
        additional electricity and hydrogen generation plants, the cars, keep
        the roads up, mine the minerals, and build a distribution system for the
        hydrogen, plus keep all those people who build it alive and sheltered
        before you get to the net eMergy, before you have something that the
        rest of society can work with."

        There is a link at "entire energy cost" that takes you to a much better
        treatment of the theme than I might come up with.

        --
        A wall of infinite dimension stands before the present course of human
        evolution. It is the wise finitude of the Earth and its resources.

        Steve Morningthunder

        mthunder@...
        http://greatchange.org
      • Jacob Lund Fisker
        ... For an isothermal process the energy (barring friction etc.) is just NkT ln(V_end/V_start) or nRT ln(V_end/V_start) k is Boltzmann s constant, R is the gas
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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          On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 05:52:09AM -0800, Ron Patterson wrote:

          > But I have no idea how much energy this would take or even how
          > high you can pressurize hydrogen? I have read that this would

          For an isothermal process the energy (barring friction etc.) is
          just

          NkT ln(V_end/V_start)

          or

          nRT ln(V_end/V_start)

          k is Boltzmann's constant, R is the gas constant. N is the number
          of H2 molecules, n is their concentration. V are the volumes.

          As the process is isothermal you just divide by T to get the entropy
          increase.

          Caveats: Industrially one may not have the time to ensure a reversible
          process - this will increase entropy generation, but not energy
          requirements. However, the lack of a large cold reservoir in turn will
          probably require some cooling increasing energy requirements, and entropy
          generation for the heat engine which does the cooling.

          --
          Jacob Lund Fisker
          PGP-key:0xF94C6234 at www.keyserver.net
          http://quasar.physik.unibas.ch/~fisker/401/oil/oil.html
        • Andrew MacKillop
          DINOSAURS Does any member of this group have articles, information, views or comments about DINOSAURS and their relation to Fossil Energy Civilization ? Those
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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            DINOSAURS

            Does any member of this group have articles, information, views or comments
            about DINOSAURS and their relation to Fossil Energy Civilization ?
            Those ole Sauriens can hardly be symbols of 'awareness', but how come they
            got to be cult image/icons in the space of maybe 15 years? Is this a Dark
            Bond between Fossil Energy Citizenry and the geological age that made our
            wonderful world possible? Or good marketing by Spielberg & Co?

            Please contact me if you have ideas

            A McKillop
          • Jack Dingler
            Would there really be so great a philosophical or symbolic difference between using crude and refined oil? If so, what would it be? Jack Dingler
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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              Would there really be so great a philosophical or symbolic difference
              between using crude and refined oil? If so, what would it be?

              Jack Dingler

              --- In energyresources@y..., "S Morningthunder" <mthunder@g...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: b [mailto:b@...]
              > > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:04 PM
              > > To: S Morningthunder
              > > Subject: Re: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness
              > >
              > > Great idea. I wouldn't wear one myself but a
              > > bottle of the stuff (crude oil) sitting on my desk may carry
              > > the same philosophical weight.
              >
              > I've got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped
              > 20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that
              > inspired me to try and do the same, but the effort wound up becoming
              > jewelry instead. I couldn't contract a paperweight for under $20, and
              > worked toward mastering the technique, but haven't gotten it yet.
              >
              > The jewelry, though, is more "beared upon the chest before the world".
              >
              > >
              > > How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
              > >
              > It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
              > who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
              > $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
              > its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.
              >
              > You might try driving through west texas and buying it directly from a
              > stripper owner. That is what I was going to do if I failed in Mexico.
              > Or perhaps "Thompson's reference" would provide a lead.
              >
              > --
              > The harsh times approach. It is the lack of preparation which fills me
              > with concern and anxiety, for we assume that we shall gather wood and
              > slay game when the wind is white with winter.
              >
              > Steve Morningthunder
              >
              > mthunder@g...
              > http://greatchange.org
            • b
              Hi S, ... SM It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone SM who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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                Hi S,

                Thursday, November 21, 2002, 12:42:03 AM, you wrote:


                >> How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
                >>
                SM> It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
                SM> who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
                SM> $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
                SM> its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.

                See my request to BP educational services posted earlier

                b
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