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Re: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness

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  • b
    Hi Steve, Tuesday, November 19, 2002, 11:52:16 PM, you wrote: SM I have decided to give away some of the Dinosaur blood symbols to SM members of this group.
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 20, 2002
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      Hi Steve,

      Tuesday, November 19, 2002, 11:52:16 PM, you wrote:

      SM> I have decided to give away some of the Dinosaur blood symbols to
      SM> members of this group. Obviously, I am limited as to
      SM> how many I can give away, so please be honest with yourself and me as to
      SM> whether you would wear it.

      Great idea. I wouldn't wear one myself but a
      bottle of the stuff (crude oil) sitting on my desk may carry the same
      philosophical weight.

      How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?

      (My dad used to have a furniture conditioner that was labeled as crude
      oil, but I don't know if that was a brand name or the real McCoy)
      --
      Cheers,

      b
      mailto:b@...
    • jfbaldauf
      Steve- Thank you for the kind offer of dino-blood pendants. I would love to have- and pledge to wear- the square wire model shown on the web page. I would be
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 20, 2002
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        Steve-

        Thank you for the kind offer of dino-blood pendants. I would love
        to have- and pledge to wear- the "square wire" model shown on
        the web page. I would be even more comfortable with the idea
        of accepting one pendant as your kind gift, and of purchasing a
        second pendant as a gift for my wife, and maybe a few more as
        presents for simpatico friends and family. I couldn't find a price
        list and hope that I will be able to work something out that is ok
        with you. I am honored by the gift, and I believe strongly that art
        and artists should be honored with material support for their work.

        Thanks again,

        Jim Baldauf
        Austin



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "S Morningthunder" <mthunder@...>
        To: <energyresources@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:52 PM
        Subject: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness


        > I have decided to give away some of the Dinosaur blood symbols to
        > members of this group. After all, if I am the only one wearing it, then
        > there can be no functioning as a symbol expressing a group
        > consciousness.
        >
        > If you think you would wear a dinosaur blood pendant, a small glass tube
        > partially filled with crude oil and heat forged unto a handmade 14 kt
        > gold finding, check out http://greatchange.org/dinosaurblood/index.html,
        > choose a pendant design and let me know. Obviously, I am limited as to
        > how many I can give away, so please be honest with yourself and me as to
        > whether you would wear it. They go well with a piece of leather
        > shoelace, tied with two overhand knots, each about the other end, so
        > that the knots can be pulled against one another.
        >
        > (I know that we macho types may at first balk at wearing a piece of gold
        > jewelry, but this tries to be a precise symbol of what we are focussing
        > on in this group.)
        >
        > --
        > A vortex from the future unto the present, centers of spreading change
        > upon a spherical surface, old wealth is mercifully swallowed to become
        > the new.
        >
        > Steve Morningthunder
        >
        > mthunder@...
        > http://greatchange.org
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your message didn't show up on the list? Complaints or compliments?
        > Drop me (Tom Robertson) a note at t1r@...
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • S Morningthunder
        ... I ve got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped 20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that inspired me to
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 20, 2002
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: b [mailto:b@...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:04 PM
          > To: S Morningthunder
          > Subject: Re: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness
          >
          > Great idea. I wouldn't wear one myself but a
          > bottle of the stuff (crude oil) sitting on my desk may carry
          > the same philosophical weight.

          I've got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped
          20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that
          inspired me to try and do the same, but the effort wound up becoming
          jewelry instead. I couldn't contract a paperweight for under $20, and
          worked toward mastering the technique, but haven't gotten it yet.

          The jewelry, though, is more "beared upon the chest before the world".

          >
          > How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
          >
          It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
          who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
          $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
          its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.

          You might try driving through west texas and buying it directly from a
          stripper owner. That is what I was going to do if I failed in Mexico.
          Or perhaps "Thompson's reference" would provide a lead.

          --
          The harsh times approach. It is the lack of preparation which fills me
          with concern and anxiety, for we assume that we shall gather wood and
          slay game when the wind is white with winter.

          Steve Morningthunder

          mthunder@...
          http://greatchange.org
        • S Morningthunder
          ... No, I didn t leave it out. And, this is before taking into consideration the entire energy cost. It goes back to our dinosaur blood spooner. You ve got to
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 20, 2002
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            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Ron Patterson [mailto:readyourdarwin@...]
            > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:52 AM
            > To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question
            >
            >
            > Steve Morningthunder wrote:
            > >>>I made my effort at
            > http://greatchange.org/bb-electricity.html which
            > includes a link to "entire energy cost" where the additional
            > energy thatit would take is treated.<<<
            >
            > Steve, loved your math on the cost of converting electricity
            > to hydrogen but have you not left out a step, the delivery
            > system? Hydrogen, when it is generated is at ambient
            > temperature and pressure. In this form it is absolutely useless to us.

            No, I didn't leave it out.


            "And, this is before taking into consideration the entire energy cost.
            It goes back to our dinosaur blood spooner. You've got to build the
            additional electricity and hydrogen generation plants, the cars, keep
            the roads up, mine the minerals, and build a distribution system for the
            hydrogen, plus keep all those people who build it alive and sheltered
            before you get to the net eMergy, before you have something that the
            rest of society can work with."

            There is a link at "entire energy cost" that takes you to a much better
            treatment of the theme than I might come up with.

            --
            A wall of infinite dimension stands before the present course of human
            evolution. It is the wise finitude of the Earth and its resources.

            Steve Morningthunder

            mthunder@...
            http://greatchange.org
          • Jacob Lund Fisker
            ... For an isothermal process the energy (barring friction etc.) is just NkT ln(V_end/V_start) or nRT ln(V_end/V_start) k is Boltzmann s constant, R is the gas
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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              On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 05:52:09AM -0800, Ron Patterson wrote:

              > But I have no idea how much energy this would take or even how
              > high you can pressurize hydrogen? I have read that this would

              For an isothermal process the energy (barring friction etc.) is
              just

              NkT ln(V_end/V_start)

              or

              nRT ln(V_end/V_start)

              k is Boltzmann's constant, R is the gas constant. N is the number
              of H2 molecules, n is their concentration. V are the volumes.

              As the process is isothermal you just divide by T to get the entropy
              increase.

              Caveats: Industrially one may not have the time to ensure a reversible
              process - this will increase entropy generation, but not energy
              requirements. However, the lack of a large cold reservoir in turn will
              probably require some cooling increasing energy requirements, and entropy
              generation for the heat engine which does the cooling.

              --
              Jacob Lund Fisker
              PGP-key:0xF94C6234 at www.keyserver.net
              http://quasar.physik.unibas.ch/~fisker/401/oil/oil.html
            • Andrew MacKillop
              DINOSAURS Does any member of this group have articles, information, views or comments about DINOSAURS and their relation to Fossil Energy Civilization ? Those
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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                DINOSAURS

                Does any member of this group have articles, information, views or comments
                about DINOSAURS and their relation to Fossil Energy Civilization ?
                Those ole Sauriens can hardly be symbols of 'awareness', but how come they
                got to be cult image/icons in the space of maybe 15 years? Is this a Dark
                Bond between Fossil Energy Citizenry and the geological age that made our
                wonderful world possible? Or good marketing by Spielberg & Co?

                Please contact me if you have ideas

                A McKillop
              • Jack Dingler
                Would there really be so great a philosophical or symbolic difference between using crude and refined oil? If so, what would it be? Jack Dingler
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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                  Would there really be so great a philosophical or symbolic difference
                  between using crude and refined oil? If so, what would it be?

                  Jack Dingler

                  --- In energyresources@y..., "S Morningthunder" <mthunder@g...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: b [mailto:b@...]
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:04 PM
                  > > To: S Morningthunder
                  > > Subject: Re: [energyresources] A Symbol of Awareness
                  > >
                  > > Great idea. I wouldn't wear one myself but a
                  > > bottle of the stuff (crude oil) sitting on my desk may carry
                  > > the same philosophical weight.
                  >
                  > I've got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped
                  > 20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that
                  > inspired me to try and do the same, but the effort wound up becoming
                  > jewelry instead. I couldn't contract a paperweight for under $20, and
                  > worked toward mastering the technique, but haven't gotten it yet.
                  >
                  > The jewelry, though, is more "beared upon the chest before the world".
                  >
                  > >
                  > > How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
                  > >
                  > It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
                  > who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
                  > $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
                  > its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.
                  >
                  > You might try driving through west texas and buying it directly from a
                  > stripper owner. That is what I was going to do if I failed in Mexico.
                  > Or perhaps "Thompson's reference" would provide a lead.
                  >
                  > --
                  > The harsh times approach. It is the lack of preparation which fills me
                  > with concern and anxiety, for we assume that we shall gather wood and
                  > slay game when the wind is white with winter.
                  >
                  > Steve Morningthunder
                  >
                  > mthunder@g...
                  > http://greatchange.org
                • b
                  Hi S, ... SM It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone SM who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 21, 2002
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                    Hi S,

                    Thursday, November 21, 2002, 12:42:03 AM, you wrote:


                    >> How does one get their hands on crude oil locally?
                    >>
                    SM> It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone
                    SM> who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some
                    SM> $1300 per barrel, although I don't have that much. However, at the rate
                    SM> its going I think my ten gallons will last for some 100,000 years.

                    See my request to BP educational services posted earlier

                    b
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