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Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?/df

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  • Gerry Agnew
    Ah Denis! Regarding Ley lines, have a look at David Childress and Bruce Cathie s work with harmonics. There is definitely something there, and I exchanged
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 27, 2013
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      Ah Denis!

      Regarding Ley lines, have a look at David Childress and Bruce Cathie's work with harmonics. There is definitely something there, and I exchanged information with Cathie many years ago.

      It is more than "emotional" energy to be sure and I wonder if Tesla had his inspiration from these works in some manner? I suspect Edward Leedskalnin was on to something with his Coral Castle in Florida. Lots of questions!

      Why follow these anyhow you may ask? Well, just about everybody on this site writes and says that "we are doomed" or "the Earth cannot provide what is required for these systems on an indefinite basis". Ok, let us suppose all of this is correct. Why is it, therefore, that we (as mankind) cannot divert a tiny portion of what is spent on "relevant" research into Ley lines and Planetary Grids and see what can be found out? Given the potential, where is the downside?

      I look at your letter in more detail, Denis. You write about thermal energy from oceans and systems on remote islands. Well, this would make sense in the Southern Indian Ocean (Roaring Forties and Fifties) and if one examines the French island groupings there we see interesting things which I did not understand until I just read your letter. Look at the Kerguelen Islands. The French have 110 scientists and supporting staff there in relative comfort to conduct "weather research" or to apparently track French satellite launches from far away French Guiana. In looking at pictures taken by the staff way down there, we see huge arrays of scientific instruments which I could not figure out. With your letter, I think I now can. If one goes to another island in that area of the world, New Amsterdam, we see a few scientists living in less than spartan circumstances supposedly doing "weather experiments". On even more remote St. Pauls, we see an unmanned weather station (this couldn't be done elsewhere?). Recently I started to research these islands, but didn't know why at the time. Maybe I do now!

      I looked up the intersection points on Ley lines in the Southern Indian Ocean and found one near St. Pauls but nothing near the Kerguelens (where the biggest concentration of scientists are). I watched an old French newsreel on the Kerguelen colony which was shot sometime between 1960 and 1962. I was amazed! At that time the 4th French Republic had collapsed and France was fighting a losing war in Algeria (and also the old French West Africa). It had gotten hammered in Viet Nam and this was a drain on a French Treasury which was not in the best of shape. De Gaulle came back to lead the new 5th republic with the stirring words "Francais, Francaises - aidez-moi" (Frenchmen and women, help me). The place was a mess. De Gaulle recognised this and this is why he called for help.

      In other words mainland France was in a dreadful mess and yet it spent, without any worry, millions of dollars on a place at the back of beyond. Was weather forecasting that important?? Following the money, I do not see these Kerguelen interests as being of significance, either then or now (Barring Ley line studies). However, now Denis says much. The scientists have been there for more than 50 years now!

      Denis: question. Assuming you are correct with your thermal energy comments (and I certainly would not challenge this now!), what good is it? Assuming that the scientists on Kerguelen and Amsterdam Islands suddenly have a "Eureka" moment and realise exactly how to extract the energy from the Indian Ocean. How do they use it? How do they get the energy to the rest of the world when the conditions which spawned "Eureka" may be unique to the Indian Ocean?

      Thank you Denis!

      Gerry

      *************************************************************************************************

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Denis Frith
      To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 9:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?



      I am puzzled by the reference to Ley Lines as a source of energy. I gather that they are geological features but the Wiki reference does not mention energy. However, an important point in any discussion of energy is that the form of the energy and its local determines whether it is a useful source for operation of technological systems. For example, there is a vast amount of thermal energy in the oceans but only a very small amount of it has been extracted by systems installed on remote islands because ocean thermal energy is the best source available. There are a number of regions around the globe where it has been worthwhile to install systems to harness geothermal resources. But these sources of energy are trivial. The main sources of energy for industrial use are the fossil fuels, nuclear and insolation. Hydro stations use the potential energy of water but insolation provides that potential through the hydrological cycle driven by insolation.

      Denis

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      No virus found in this message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6277 - Release Date: 04/27/13


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Denis Frith
      Gerry, the issue I was addressing is the vast amount of energy (and materials) that are irreversibly used up to construct, operate and maintain the vast
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 27, 2013
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        Gerry, the issue I was addressing is the vast amount of energy (and materials) that are irreversibly used up to construct, operate and maintain the vast infrastructure (from the cities down) of materialistic civilization. There're is no practical new energy source to contribute to this role of physical energy.
        Denis

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Gerry Agnew
        Sent: 04/28/13 04:43 AM
        To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?/df

        Ah Denis!

        Regarding Ley lines, have a look at David Childress and Bruce Cathie's work with harmonics. There is definitely something there, and I exchanged information with Cathie many years ago.

        It is more than "emotional" energy to be sure and I wonder if Tesla had his inspiration from these works in some manner? I suspect Edward Leedskalnin was on to something with his Coral Castle in Florida. Lots of questions!

        Why follow these anyhow you may ask? Well, just about everybody on this site writes and says that "we are doomed" or "the Earth cannot provide what is required for these systems on an indefinite basis". Ok, let us suppose all of this is correct. Why is it, therefore, that we (as mankind) cannot divert a tiny portion of what is spent on "relevant" research into Ley lines and Planetary Grids and see what can be found out? Given the potential, where is the downside?

        I look at your letter in more detail, Denis. You write about thermal energy from oceans and systems on remote islands. Well, this would make sense in the Southern Indian Ocean (Roaring Forties and Fifties) and if one examines the French island groupings there we see interesting things which I did not understand until I just read your letter. Look at the Kerguelen Islands. The French have 110 scientists and supporting staff there in relative comfort to conduct "weather research" or to apparently track French satellite launches from far away French Guiana. In looking at pictures taken by the staff way down there, we see huge arrays of scientific instruments which I could not figure out. With your letter, I think I now can. If one goes to another island in that area of the world, New Amsterdam, we see a few scientists living in less than spartan circumstances supposedly doing "weather experiments". On even more remote St. Pauls, we see an unmanned weather station (this couldn't be done elsewhere?). Recently I started to research these islands, but didn't know why at the time. Maybe I do now!

        I looked up the intersection points on Ley lines in the Southern Indian Ocean and found one near St. Pauls but nothing near the Kerguelens (where the biggest concentration of scientists are). I watched an old French newsreel on the Kerguelen colony which was shot sometime between 1960 and 1962. I was amazed! At that time the 4th French Republic had collapsed and France was fighting a losing war in Algeria (and also the old French West Africa). It had gotten hammered in Viet Nam and this was a drain on a French Treasury which was not in the best of shape. De Gaulle came back to lead the new 5th republic with the stirring words "Francais, Francaises - aidez-moi" (Frenchmen and women, help me). The place was a mess. De Gaulle recognised this and this is why he called for help.

        In other words mainland France was in a dreadful mess and yet it spent, without any worry, millions of dollars on a place at the back of beyond. Was weather forecasting that important?? Following the money, I do not see these Kerguelen interests as being of significance, either then or now (Barring Ley line studies). However, now Denis says much. The scientists have been there for more than 50 years now!

        Denis: question. Assuming you are correct with your thermal energy comments (and I certainly would not challenge this now!), what good is it? Assuming that the scientists on Kerguelen and Amsterdam Islands suddenly have a "Eureka" moment and realise exactly how to extract the energy from the Indian Ocean. How do they use it? How do they get the energy to the rest of the world when the conditions which spawned "Eureka" may be unique to the Indian Ocean?

        Thank you Denis!

        Gerry

        *************************************************************************************************

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Denis Frith
        To: energyresources%40yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 9:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?

        I am puzzled by the reference to Ley Lines as a source of energy. I gather that they are geological features but the Wiki reference does not mention energy. However, an important point in any discussion of energy is that the form of the energy and its local determines whether it is a useful source for operation of technological systems. For example, there is a vast amount of thermal energy in the oceans but only a very small amount of it has been extracted by systems installed on remote islands because ocean thermal energy is the best source available. There are a number of regions around the globe where it has been worthwhile to install systems to harness geothermal resources. But these sources of energy are trivial. The main sources of energy for industrial use are the fossil fuels, nuclear and insolation. Hydro stations use the potential energy of water but insolation provides that potential through the hydrological cycle driven by insolation.

        Denis

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        No virus found in this message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6277 - Release Date: 04/27/13

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Denis Frith
        Gerry, you end by asking a question about using the thermal energy in the Indian Ocean. That is the question that society has asked about any energy source.
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 27, 2013
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          Gerry, you end by asking a question about using the thermal energy in the Indian Ocean. That is the question that society has asked about any energy source. Society demands energy to run the systems of civilization. Industry supplies that energy by installing systems to do the work. These systems are made using energy and materials and the process produces material wastes. This question is an ongoing one biased by the impact of money flow. society has a love affair with what energy does for them. They are slowly learning the reality that energy is only a property of material. Climate change is just one deleterious consequence of using fossil fuels wiithout understanding the physical reality.
          Denis
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Gerry Agnew
          Sent: 04/28/13 04:43 AM
          To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?/df

          Ah Denis!

          Regarding Ley lines, have a look at David Childress and Bruce Cathie's work with harmonics. There is definitely something there, and I exchanged information with Cathie many years ago.

          It is more than "emotional" energy to be sure and I wonder if Tesla had his inspiration from these works in some manner? I suspect Edward Leedskalnin was on to something with his Coral Castle in Florida. Lots of questions!

          Why follow these anyhow you may ask? Well, just about everybody on this site writes and says that "we are doomed" or "the Earth cannot provide what is required for these systems on an indefinite basis". Ok, let us suppose all of this is correct. Why is it, therefore, that we (as mankind) cannot divert a tiny portion of what is spent on "relevant" research into Ley lines and Planetary Grids and see what can be found out? Given the potential, where is the downside?

          I look at your letter in more detail, Denis. You write about thermal energy from oceans and systems on remote islands. Well, this would make sense in the Southern Indian Ocean (Roaring Forties and Fifties) and if one examines the French island groupings there we see interesting things which I did not understand until I just read your letter. Look at the Kerguelen Islands. The French have 110 scientists and supporting staff there in relative comfort to conduct "weather research" or to apparently track French satellite launches from far away French Guiana. In looking at pictures taken by the staff way down there, we see huge arrays of scientific instruments which I could not figure out. With your letter, I think I now can. If one goes to another island in that area of the world, New Amsterdam, we see a few scientists living in less than spartan circumstances supposedly doing "weather experiments". On even more remote St. Pauls, we see an unmanned weather station (this couldn't be done elsewhere?). Recently I started to research these islands, but didn't know why at the time. Maybe I do now!

          I looked up the intersection points on Ley lines in the Southern Indian Ocean and found one near St. Pauls but nothing near the Kerguelens (where the biggest concentration of scientists are). I watched an old French newsreel on the Kerguelen colony which was shot sometime between 1960 and 1962. I was amazed! At that time the 4th French Republic had collapsed and France was fighting a losing war in Algeria (and also the old French West Africa). It had gotten hammered in Viet Nam and this was a drain on a French Treasury which was not in the best of shape. De Gaulle came back to lead the new 5th republic with the stirring words "Francais, Francaises - aidez-moi" (Frenchmen and women, help me). The place was a mess. De Gaulle recognised this and this is why he called for help.

          In other words mainland France was in a dreadful mess and yet it spent, without any worry, millions of dollars on a place at the back of beyond. Was weather forecasting that important?? Following the money, I do not see these Kerguelen interests as being of significance, either then or now (Barring Ley line studies). However, now Denis says much. The scientists have been there for more than 50 years now!

          Denis: question. Assuming you are correct with your thermal energy comments (and I certainly would not challenge this now!), what good is it? Assuming that the scientists on Kerguelen and Amsterdam Islands suddenly have a "Eureka" moment and realise exactly how to extract the energy from the Indian Ocean. How do they use it? How do they get the energy to the rest of the world when the conditions which spawned "Eureka" may be unique to the Indian Ocean?

          Thank you Denis!

          Gerry

          *************************************************************************************************

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Denis Frith
          To: energyresources%40yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 9:29 PM
          Subject: Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?

          I am puzzled by the reference to Ley Lines as a source of energy. I gather that they are geological features but the Wiki reference does not mention energy. However, an important point in any discussion of energy is that the form of the energy and its local determines whether it is a useful source for operation of technological systems. For example, there is a vast amount of thermal energy in the oceans but only a very small amount of it has been extracted by systems installed on remote islands because ocean thermal energy is the best source available. There are a number of regions around the globe where it has been worthwhile to install systems to harness geothermal resources. But these sources of energy are trivial. The main sources of energy for industrial use are the fossil fuels, nuclear and insolation. Hydro stations use the potential energy of water but insolation provides that potential through the hydrological cycle driven by insolation.

          Denis

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          No virus found in this message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6277 - Release Date: 04/27/13

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dell Erickson
          What would change? It s the same thought process that earned society the mess it is in today. Kneeling at the alter of technology, thinking a technological fix
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 28, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            What would change?

            It's the same thought process that earned society the mess it is in today.

            Kneeling at the alter of technology, thinking a technological fix
            will save society.

            Better informed people understand technology is the problem. It makes
            society (and all other critters on this globe) more vulnerable and
            unsustainable.

            Remember the web of life, all pieces of the mosaic functioning as a
            whole; a dynamic complex system.

            Any implementation of "Ley lines and Planetary Grids" based energy
            only means parts of life's mosaic become increasingly dysfunctional or worse.

            Please don't misunderstand me. I am all for science research because
            I am a curious fellow -and enjoy its benefits. But I also understand
            that knowledge and application of knowledge are very different ideas.

            Bottomline, will a perpetual motion machine mean more songbirds and
            butterflies and frogs -now dying off in the 6th extinction.

            Dell Erickson
            Minneapolis


            4/27/2013, you wrote:
            >Ah Denis!
            >
            >Regarding Ley lines, have a look at David Childress and Bruce
            >Cathie's work with harmonics. There is definitely something there,
            >and I exchanged information with Cathie many years ago.
            >...
            >Why follow these anyhow you may ask? Well, just about everybody on
            >this site writes and says that "we are doomed" or "the Earth cannot
            >provide what is required for these systems on an indefinite basis".
            >Ok, let us suppose all of this is correct. Why is it, therefore,
            >that we (as mankind) cannot divert a tiny portion of what is spent
            >on "relevant" research into Ley lines and Planetary Grids and see
            >what can be found out? Given the potential, where is the
            >downside?....Thank you Denis!
            >Gerry
          • Denis Frith
            It is ironical that science has provided knowledge of many aspects of how natural forces work without providing the fundamental principle governing all
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 28, 2013
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              It is ironical that science has provided knowledge of many aspects of how natural forces work without providing the fundamental principle governing all materialistic operations. All operational processes (natural or in the systems of civilization) entail the input of material (including that supplying the energy) and expel wastes (including energy as heat) in their functioning. In addition, their development is characterized by irreversible aging leading to senescence and then demise.

              Denis Frith
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Dell Erickson
              Sent: 04/28/13 11:50 PM
              To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?/df

              What would change?

              It's the same thought process that earned society the mess it is in today.

              Kneeling at the alter of technology, thinking a technological fix
              will save society.

              Better informed people understand technology is the problem. It makes
              society (and all other critters on this globe) more vulnerable and
              unsustainable.

              Remember the web of life, all pieces of the mosaic functioning as a
              whole; a dynamic complex system.

              Any implementation of "Ley lines and Planetary Grids" based energy
              only means parts of life's mosaic become increasingly dysfunctional or worse.

              Please don't misunderstand me. I am all for science research because
              I am a curious fellow -and enjoy its benefits. But I also understand
              that knowledge and application of knowledge are very different ideas.

              Bottomline, will a perpetual motion machine mean more songbirds and
              butterflies and frogs -now dying off in the 6th extinction.

              Dell Erickson
              Minneapolis

              4/27/2013, you wrote:
              >Ah Denis!
              >
              >Regarding Ley lines, have a look at David Childress and Bruce
              >Cathie's work with harmonics. There is definitely something there,
              >and I exchanged information with Cathie many years ago.
              >...
              >Why follow these anyhow you may ask? Well, just about everybody on
              >this site writes and says that "we are doomed" or "the Earth cannot
              >provide what is required for these systems on an indefinite basis".
              >Ok, let us suppose all of this is correct. Why is it, therefore,
              >that we (as mankind) cannot divert a tiny portion of what is spent
              >on "relevant" research into Ley lines and Planetary Grids and see
              >what can be found out? Given the potential, where is the
              >downside?....Thank you Denis!
              >Gerry




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Abernethy, Virginia Deane
              Tangentially related to Dell Erickson s point, recall Garrett Hardin s warning that inefficiencies give a system or society a margin of safety. If something
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 29, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Tangentially related to Dell Erickson's point, recall Garrett Hardin's warning that "inefficiencies" give a system or society a margin of safety.

                If something goes wrong, correcting inefficiencies buys a little time.
                Virginia



                From: energyresources@yahoogroups.com [mailto:energyresources@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dell Erickson
                Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:51 AM
                To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [energyresources] New Energy Source?/df



                What would change?

                It's the same thought process that earned society the mess it is in today.

                Kneeling at the alter of technology, thinking a technological fix
                will save society.

                Better informed people understand technology is the problem. It makes
                society (and all other critters on this globe) more vulnerable and
                unsustainable.

                Remember the web of life, all pieces of the mosaic functioning as a
                whole; a dynamic complex system.

                Any implementation of "Ley lines and Planetary Grids" based energy
                only means parts of life's mosaic become increasingly dysfunctional or worse.

                Please don't misunderstand me. I am all for science research because
                I am a curious fellow -and enjoy its benefits. But I also understand
                that knowledge and application of knowledge are very different ideas.

                Bottomline, will a perpetual motion machine mean more songbirds and
                butterflies and frogs -now dying off in the 6th extinction.

                Dell Erickson
                Minneapolis

                4/27/2013, you wrote:
                >Ah Denis!
                >
                >Regarding Ley lines, have a look at David Childress and Bruce
                >Cathie's work with harmonics. There is definitely something there,
                >and I exchanged information with Cathie many years ago.
                >...
                >Why follow these anyhow you may ask? Well, just about everybody on
                >this site writes and says that "we are doomed" or "the Earth cannot
                >provide what is required for these systems on an indefinite basis".
                >Ok, let us suppose all of this is correct. Why is it, therefore,
                >that we (as mankind) cannot divert a tiny portion of what is spent
                >on "relevant" research into Ley lines and Planetary Grids and see
                >what can be found out? Given the potential, where is the
                >downside?....Thank you Denis!
                >Gerry



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