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Re: Mythology & The Origin of Life

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  • dmathew1
    Hello Lawrence, ... universe. The further out you look the further back in time you observe it. It should be possible to construct gravity wave antennas and
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 31, 2007
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      Hello Lawrence,

      > "As for the bit with the Rig Veda, yes we have seen the early
      universe. The further out you look the further back in time you
      observe it. It should be possible to construct gravity wave antennas
      and neutrino detectors which can observe gravitons and neutrinos from
      the earliest moments of the universe --- within 10^{-35} - 10^{-44}
      seconds into the big bang. If this comes about then we will let the
      universe do the talking! --- instead of illusions about some diety
      who says "I am that I am," and "Thus says the Lord."

      Don't you know, Lawrence, that we're not going to build any of these
      things. Oil is above $95 a barrel, gold is above $800 an ounce.
      Humankind's window of opportunity is closing fast, and once it has
      closed that's the eternal end of the scientific endeavor.

      Concerning gravitons, there is a fascinating article in the latest
      issue of Scientific American:

      "The Great Cosmic Roller Coaster"
      http://tinyurl.com/3bd6kk

      > "Do we really think that ideas developed from the Bronze age to the
      first century AD have any relevance with the observable world?"

      When the 21st century ideas have already run out of steam we might as
      well reconsider the more ancient ideas.

      But it is not necessary: Some mysteries are best left unresolved.

      Science has encountered a Dead End in the pursuit of knowledge
      regarding the Origin of Life. Such an event might indicate that
      science isn't the source of ultimate knowledge as people imagine.

      Perhaps humankind has run out of both ideas and time. Disappointing,
      isn't it?

      When the ancient and the modern ideas have all failed, what is left?

      Sincerely,

      David Mathews
      http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1

      ~~~~~~~EnergyResources Moderator Comment ~~~~~~~~

      David, you share with a lot of folks a very narrow view of what science and associated good thinking is all about.

      Certainly we are headed for some bad times, perhaps in many ways unique in human history--given the (inflationary) interplay between declining net energy availability and massively volatile money supply.

      And there were such times before. Go look at all the times of great disaster and then hunt up the folks who often saw them coming and did what it took to not only survive, but often prosper.

      My best examples are the "Great Depression" and World Wars I and II.

      There are great examples of people who saw all of those traumatic times coming and did something about them--thus surviving, often with a considerable degree of quality.

      As they say, "It ain't over till the Fat Lady sings."

      And she has not even been born yet.

      ~~~~~ EnergyResources Moderator Tom Robertson ~~~~~~
    • L. B. Crowell
      ... From: dmathew1 To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:10 PM Subject: [energyresources] Re: Mythology & The Origin of Life
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: dmathew1
        To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:10 PM
        Subject: [energyresources] Re: Mythology & The Origin of Life

        Don't you know, Lawrence, that we're not going to build any of these
        things. Oil is above $95 a barrel, gold is above $800 an ounce.
        Humankind's window of opportunity is closing fast, and once it has
        closed that's the eternal end of the scientific endeavor.

        ---------------------
        [LC]

        I think this reflects your deep pessimism. Daily and spot prices don't make much of a forecast. True enough oil prices will probably hit the $100/barrel level by the end of the decade, if not next year. That is a problem, but it is not the swan song of humanity.

        I suspect that through the mid 21st century the human condition will not so much collapse, but will exhibit a logistic cycling of limited booms and busts around some averaged maximum of population, energy production levels and so forth. Oil peak out is not likely a specific peak point, but more of a plateau we linger on for a while.

        --------------------------

        When the 21st century ideas have already run out of steam we might as
        well reconsider the more ancient ideas.

        --------------------------
        [LC]

        Turn on the Christian channels to watch Bible waving hucksters doing just that!

        --------------------------

        But it is not necessary: Some mysteries are best left unresolved.

        Science has encountered a Dead End in the pursuit of knowledge
        regarding the Origin of Life. Such an event might indicate that
        science isn't the source of ultimate knowledge as people imagine.

        Perhaps humankind has run out of both ideas and time. Disappointing,
        isn't it?

        When the ancient and the modern ideas have all failed, what is left?

        --------------------------
        [LC]

        The Chinese word for crisis is also opportunity. I think this reflects little more than your deep pessimistic sense of things. There is to my mind both positive and negative forms of optimism and pessimism. The media voices out there are full of negative optimisms, all amounting to the cry of the person midway into falling off a building, "Things are fine so far." On the other hand negative pessimisn misses the little dual element given in the Chinese word for crisis.

        Lawrence B. Crowell



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dmathew1
        Hello Lawrence, ... doing just that! Christians have a dismal history of non-thinking regarding scientific, philosophical and historical matters. I have had
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2007
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          Hello Lawrence,

          > "Turn on the Christian channels to watch Bible waving hucksters
          doing just that!"

          Christians have a dismal history of non-thinking regarding
          scientific, philosophical and historical matters.

          I have had plenty of arguments with Christians about these matters
          and it doesn't take very long before such discussions hit a brick
          wall of indifference to all scientific matters.

          But it is important to keep in mind that the ancients who created all
          of these myths were not Christians and these myths were never
          invented to contradict the conclusions of science.

          I appreciate the myths because they are beautiful, not because they
          serve to provide the final answer to Nature's mysteries. I
          appreciate the Scriptures because they are beautiful, not as a source
          of Absolute Truth (or any other sort of truth for that matter). I
          appreciate the religions because religious people are beautiful, not
          because any person is better or worse than anyone else.

          Science inspires my awe and love for Nature. But I would still have
          awe and love for Nature without science.

          The ancient myths are expressions of awe and love for Nature. But
          modern technological humans appear to have lost this awe and love for
          Nature altogether. Isn't that a tragedy?

          Sincerely,

          David Mathews
          http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1
        • Steve Morningthunder
          ... And it matters not whether the self-limiting scientific mind disallows for the comprehension of an unfolding from within, that finds always the Way, toward
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 6, 2007
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            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:energyresources@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmathew1
            > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:10 PM
            > To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [energyresources] Re: Mythology & The Origin of Life
            >
            >
            > Science has encountered a Dead End in the pursuit of knowledge
            > regarding the Origin of Life. Such an event might indicate that
            > science isn't the source of ultimate knowledge as people imagine.

            And it matters not whether the self-limiting scientific mind disallows for
            the comprehension of an unfolding from within, that finds always the Way,
            toward that which alone it knows as the destiny. For the scientific mind
            that recognizes only what can be measured, looks at the stars that again
            and again recede from its grasp, to which it can only say, "Thou art the
            Infinite, and I comprehend Thee not."

            --
            Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
            Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?

            --Choruses from `The Rock', T.S. Eliot

            Steve Morningthunder

            mthunder@...
            http://greatchange.org
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