25258Re: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question
- Nov 16, 2002Personally I'd prefer to get rid of Texas rather than Alabama, Georgia and
Mississippi, though it is a tough choice. The world will benefit whichever
way we go.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Patterson" <readyourdarwin@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:46 AM
Subject: Re: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question
> That would be larger than the three states of Alabama, Georgia and
> Mississippi combined. Of course it would actually be a lot more than that
> because you have to leave service areas in between the panels. They have
> to be cleaned periodically because of dust and bird droppings. So it would
> probably take about twice that much. Around 300,000 square miles or about
> 200 million acres. That is a lot of solar panels.
> When people talk about the coming "hydrogen economy", with hydrogen being
> generated by solar panels, they never give any figures. Has anyone noticed
> that? They never say how many solar panels, how much they will cost, how
> much farmland they will cover or any of the thousand and one other details
> that must be attended to before such a thing could become a reality.
> Those who fail to do their arithmetic are doomed to talk nonsense.
> Ron Patterson
> Peter hill wrote:
> >>>If the US population is about 285 million, then the nominal area
> required for solar collection would be 427,500 square kilometres or
> 163,000 square miles, or a big part of Texas. Solar Prosperity Corridors
> ( but rather wider than their architects' expectations) and national debt,
> here we come!<<<
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dale & Elizabeth Pfeiffer
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question
> I've been looking into some of this, though I haven't tied any of it
> together yet. Here is a quote:
> Renewable Energy:
> Economic and Environmental Issues
> by David Pimentel, G. Rodrigues, T. Wane, R. Abrams, K. Goldberg, H.
> Staecker, E. Ma, L. Brueckner, L. Trovato, C. Chow, U. Govindarajulu, and
> S. Boerke
> (Originally published in BioScience -- Vol. 44, No. 8, September 1994)
> The material inputs for a hydrogen production facility are primarily those
> needed to build a solar electric production facility. The energy required
> to produce 1 billion kWh of hydrogen is 1.3 billion kWh of electricity
> (Voigt 1984). If current photovoltaics (Table 2) require 2700 ha/1 billion
> kWh, then a total area of 3510 ha would be needed to supply the equivalent
> of 1 billion kWh of hydrogen fuel. Based on US per capita liquid fuel
> needs, a facility covering approximately 0.15 ha (16,300 ft2) would be
> needed to produce a year's requirement of liquid hydrogen. In such a
> facility, the water requirement for electrolytic production of 1 billion
> kWh/yr equivalent of hydrogen is approximately 300 million liters/yr
> (Voigt 1984).
> - Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a god, but
> never without belief in a devil..... Every difficulty and failure within
> the movement is the work of the devil, and every success is a
> triumph over his evil plotting.
> Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements
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