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25258Re: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question

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  • John Goss
    Nov 16, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Personally I'd prefer to get rid of Texas rather than Alabama, Georgia and
      Mississippi, though it is a tough choice. The world will benefit whichever
      way we go.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ron Patterson" <readyourdarwin@...>
      To: <energyresources@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 3:46 AM
      Subject: Re: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question


      > That would be larger than the three states of Alabama, Georgia and
      > Mississippi combined. Of course it would actually be a lot more than that
      > because you have to leave service areas in between the panels. They have
      > to be cleaned periodically because of dust and bird droppings. So it would
      > probably take about twice that much. Around 300,000 square miles or about
      > 200 million acres. That is a lot of solar panels.
      >
      > When people talk about the coming "hydrogen economy", with hydrogen being
      > generated by solar panels, they never give any figures. Has anyone noticed
      > that? They never say how many solar panels, how much they will cost, how
      > much farmland they will cover or any of the thousand and one other details
      > that must be attended to before such a thing could become a reality.
      >
      > Those who fail to do their arithmetic are doomed to talk nonsense.
      >
      > Ron Patterson
      >
      > Peter hill wrote:
      > >>>If the US population is about 285 million, then the nominal area
      > required for solar collection would be 427,500 square kilometres or
      > 163,000 square miles, or a big part of Texas. Solar Prosperity Corridors
      > ( but rather wider than their architects' expectations) and national debt,
      > here we come!<<<
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Dale & Elizabeth Pfeiffer
      > To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 1:02 PM
      > Subject: Re: [energyresources] Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question
      > I've been looking into some of this, though I haven't tied any of it
      > together yet. Here is a quote:
      > http://www.dieoff.com/page84.htm
      >
      > Renewable Energy:
      > Economic and Environmental Issues
      > by David Pimentel, G. Rodrigues, T. Wane, R. Abrams, K. Goldberg, H.
      > Staecker, E. Ma, L. Brueckner, L. Trovato, C. Chow, U. Govindarajulu, and
      > S. Boerke
      >
      > (Originally published in BioScience -- Vol. 44, No. 8, September 1994)
      > The material inputs for a hydrogen production facility are primarily those
      > needed to build a solar electric production facility. The energy required
      > to produce 1 billion kWh of hydrogen is 1.3 billion kWh of electricity
      > (Voigt 1984). If current photovoltaics (Table 2) require 2700 ha/1 billion
      > kWh, then a total area of 3510 ha would be needed to supply the equivalent
      > of 1 billion kWh of hydrogen fuel. Based on US per capita liquid fuel
      > needs, a facility covering approximately 0.15 ha (16,300 ft2) would be
      > needed to produce a year's requirement of liquid hydrogen. In such a
      > facility, the water requirement for electrolytic production of 1 billion
      > kWh/yr equivalent of hydrogen is approximately 300 million liters/yr
      > (Voigt 1984).
      >
      >
      >
      > =====
      > - Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a god, but
      > never without belief in a devil..... Every difficulty and failure within
      > the movement is the work of the devil, and every success is a
      > triumph over his evil plotting.
      > Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements
      >
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