Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [empire-deluxe] computer players and nukes

Expand Messages
  • John Spirko
    Andrew, When I started creating SpeedMod, it was to compensate for game play on larger maps and to speed up production overall as well as increase the movement
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 5, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Andrew,

      When I started creating SpeedMod, it was to compensate for game play on larger maps and to speed up production overall as well as increase the movement of units. Eventually, I added a few new units.

      Each adjustment made in any one unit means balancing that change with the other units. So a modification needs a lot of testing and tweaking until you get a reasonable balance without stepping past the basic concept of the game and game play. i.e. Empire is an icon based game much like a giant version of chess, where each icon (unit and square) is representational, thus all units are the same size - a City, Infantry unit, Battleship, so maintaining a balanced scale with units and unit capabilities is part of tweaking a mod or in your case the AI.

      Plus the whole game 'shifts' a lot depending on various factors such as:
      --the style of play --- human or computer opponents,
      --type of play --- live or email, single players or teams
      --number of players --- one or lots
      -game settings -- drain, city production rate, etc ( I usually boost city production to 130 +- 10 when creating a game)
      --map size --- small for a quick game or large for big campaign
      -- nukes vs. no nukes, etc

      Since my preference and some of those I play against, leans towards larger maps of at least 150 x 150 and larger, the default set of units seems slow - i.e. a Satellite moves as fast as a transport. Thanks to Mark, the game can be modified to adjust for these preferences.
       
      In the default game I find that nukes are quite costly to make and not very effective on large maps. Conversely, the SpeedMod values would be overkill on a small map or scenario.

      It's also more difficult to test Nukes since the production times are the most extreme of all units.

      FWIW here are the current SpeedMod settings

      Sats - Armed Sat - movement 3 squares per turn, Scout Sat - movement 4 squares per turn

      Missiles -no penalty to re-enter. Plus LR, SR missiles have more damaged and tweaked vs. many units, so they will most likely take out a small unit like a Transport, AR etc. These values will likely be tweaked as they get tested and used in games.

      SR Missile
      Buypoints 13,11
      Speed 3, Range 5
      Re-Entry Speed 4
      Re-Entry Range 1
      total movement surface to orbit=15
      total movement surface to surface=19
      Damage 3

      LR Missile
      Buypoints 22, 20
      Speed 4, Range 6     
      Re-Entry Speed 5
      Re-Entry Range 1
      total movement surface to orbit=24
      total movement surface to surface=29
      Damage 4

      SR Nuke
      Buypoints 42, 40
      Speed 4, Range 5     
      Re-Entry Speed 5
      Re-Entry Range 1
      total movement surface to orbit=20
      total movement surface to surface=25
      Damage 12

      LR Nuke
      Buypoints 76, 74
      Current: Speed 4, Range 8 (7,1)
      Re-Entry Speed 5
      Re-Entry Range 1
      total movement surface to orbit=40
      total movement surface to surface=45
      Damage 12

      As you point out, if the nukes are too quickly produced, it can alter the game play significantly, which I'd rather not do.

      John

      >On 9/5/07,
      Andrew Platfoot <andrew_platfoot@...> wrote:

      Perhaps people might like to comment back on the use
      of nukes in a game - that is how, when and why.

      Should the game have cheap battle field nukes and
      expensive long range ICBM's? What about orbital nukes
      that can be carried on a satellite and rained down on
      an enemy?

      In each case you also need to think about the counter
      defence. These sorts of games are less fun if there
      is some unstoppable weapon. It is like those games
      that use magic or cheats to permit you to win every
      time.

      --- Andrew Nuxoll <anuxoll@...> wrote:


    • andy.young.2004@rogers.com
      I ve been looking at the Scripted AI code. There is no code related to SAI_UT_NUKE. The only time that a SN or LN is produced is if there is nothing else
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 5, 2007
      • 0 Attachment

        I've been looking at the Scripted AI code.  There is no code related to SAI_UT_NUKE.  The only time that a SN or LN is produced is if there is nothing else going on and one gets chosen at random from SAI_SPARE_TYPES. 

         

        I have often captured an city and found it loaded with missile or nukes.  This is the only time that I have had an opportunity to use them.  AI citiies are an important resource to be captured, not destroyed.  Anything else can be avoided or dispatched. 

         
        Andy a.k.a. GeneralError

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: ticdoffus <ticdoffus@...>
        To: empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 11:56:58 AM
        Subject: [empire-deluxe] Re: computer players and nukes

        --- In empire-deluxe@ yahoogroups. com, Andrew Platfoot
        <andrew_platfoot@ ...> wrote:

        >

        i was kinda goofing around with this too...

        i noticed that on non-hidden maps that computer
        players make really weird moves with thier very first
        transport.

        instead of grabbing close-by cities, they go all the way
        across the map and attack another player...

        so unless you have a REAL need to have the map non-hidden
        i wouldnt do it. its changes the computer AI actions.

        NUKES:

        i too noticed that generally the nuke goes to a fresh captured
        city VS an established( home) city. where as the nuke should hit
        the city behind it rather then the frontier/fresh city to mess
        up your invasion.

        i would hesitate to create newer units like orbital nukes.

        cruzan

        > Hi
        >
        > I have a big game
        running in which I am studying the
        > AI and its approach to games. It is part of a bigger
        > project some of us are involved in, to define a new AI
        > engine.
        >


      • Andrew Platfoot
        Hi That is an interesting comment about missiles and it fits the situation where I held back for a 100 or more turns before invading in force (about 4 or 5
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 6, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi

          That is an interesting comment about missiles and it
          fits the situation where I held back for a 100 or more
          turns before invading in force (about 4 or 5 troop
          ships) with carrier planes and cruiser support.

          I have been using artillery to pound the crap out of
          cities before capture. I might try a bums rush and
          grab a city or two by surprise and and see what I can
          find

          Cheers

          A
          --- andy.young.2004@... wrote:

          > I've been looking at the Scripted AI code. There is
          > no code related to SAI_UT_NUKE. The only time that
          > a SN or LN is produced is if there is nothing else
          > going on and one gets chosen at random from
          > SAI_SPARE_TYPES.
          >
          > I have often captured an city and found it loaded
          > with missile or nukes. This is the only time that I
          > have had an opportunity to use them. AI citiies are
          > an important resource to be captured, not destroyed.
          > Anything else can be avoided or dispatched.
          >
          > Andy a.k.a. GeneralError
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: ticdoffus <ticdoffus@...>
          > To: empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 11:56:58 AM
          > Subject: [empire-deluxe] Re: computer players and
          > nukes
          >
          > --- In empire-deluxe@ yahoogroups. com, Andrew
          > Platfoot
          > <andrew_platfoot@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          >
          > i was kinda goofing around with this too...
          >
          > i noticed that on non-hidden maps that computer
          > players make really weird moves with thier very
          > first
          > transport.
          >
          > instead of grabbing close-by cities, they go all the
          > way
          > across the map and attack another player...
          >
          > so unless you have a REAL need to have the map
          > non-hidden
          > i wouldnt do it. its changes the computer AI
          > actions.
          >
          > NUKES:
          >
          > i too noticed that generally the nuke goes to a
          > fresh captured
          > city VS an established( home) city. where as the
          > nuke should hit
          > the city behind it rather then the frontier/fresh
          > city to mess
          > up your invasion.
          >
          > i would hesitate to create newer units like orbital
          > nukes.
          >
          > cruzan
          >
          > > Hi
          > >
          > > I have a big game running in which I am studying
          > the
          > > AI and its approach to games. It is part of a
          > bigger
          > > project some of us are involved in, to define a
          > new AI
          > > engine.
          > >
          >
          >
          >



          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage.
          http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.