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Re: [empire-deluxe] Re: Digest Number 761

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  • Ralph Ivy
    SoloMod sounds good. Where can I download it? What site has the best variety of mods available for EDEE? Thank you. raf-ivy I rich12545
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 24, 2006
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      SoloMod sounds good. Where can I download it? What site has the best variety of mods available for EDEE?
       
      Thank you.
       
      raf-ivy
       
      I
      rich12545 <rich12545@...> wrote:
      In case anybody is interested in getting EDEE but likes the simplicity
      of previous editions, I made a mod called SoloMod and it is at the
      EDEE mod forum.  It adds just a few units and changes a few others.  I
      also upgraded about 280 scenarios and over 200 maps to work with this mod.

      Rich




    • rich12545
      And thank you. I used your city graphics, very nice (credit given). There are currently two mods available that I know of along with some misc files.
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 24, 2006
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        And thank you. I used your city graphics, very nice (credit given).
        There are currently two mods available that I know of along with some
        misc files. Everything is at the EDEE mod forum and the link is on
        the KBS main page.

        SM was designed to keep the simple flavor of Empire and give the best
        AI challenge for solo play. I hope you like it.

        Rich

        --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Ivy <raf-ivy@...> wrote:
        >
        > SoloMod sounds good. Where can I download it? What site has the best
        variety of mods available for EDEE?
        >
        > Thank you.
        >
        > raf-ivy
        >
        > I
        > rich12545 <rich12545@...> wrote:
        > In case anybody is interested in getting EDEE but likes the simplicity
        > of previous editions, I made a mod called SoloMod and it is at the
        > EDEE mod forum. It adds just a few units and changes a few others. I
        > also upgraded about 280 scenarios and over 200 maps to work with
        this mod.
        >
        > Rich
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • barryem
        ... I don t think that s really an upgrade. I think EDEE is a different game, just as Empire II was a different game. It s a good game but it s not at all
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 29, 2006
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          > Hey, I have upgraded to EDEE also.

          I don't think that's really an upgrade. I think EDEE is a different
          game, just as Empire II was a different game. It's a good game but
          it's not at all the same game.

          Barry
        • Randy.R
          Barry, With EDEE, one can choose unit types to only be those in the origonal ED at game create time. In fact you can make that your default if you want to.
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 29, 2006
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            Barry,

            With EDEE, one can choose unit types to only be those in the origonal
            ED at game create time. In fact you can make that your default if you
            want to.

            Randy

            --- barryem <barryem@...> wrote:

            > > Hey, I have upgraded to EDEE also.
            >
            > I don't think that's really an upgrade. I think EDEE is a
            > different
            > game, just as Empire II was a different game. It's a good game but
            >
            > it's not at all the same game.
            >
            > Barry
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • barryem
            ... I realize that but since I already have Empire Deluxe and IDIE that seems a little silly. Basically that would give me Empire with poorer AI. Hardly an
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 30, 2006
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              --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Randy.R" <steyrhahn@...> wrote:
              >
              > Barry,
              >
              > With EDEE, one can choose unit types to only be those in the origonal
              > ED at game create time. In fact you can make that your default if you
              > want to.

              I realize that but since I already have Empire Deluxe and IDIE that
              seems a little silly. Basically that would give me Empire with poorer
              AI. Hardly an upgrade.

              Barry
            • Andrew Nuxoll
              Gee. Speaking as someone who will have a Ph.D. in AI in about 12 months and who has played both games extensively. I firmly disagree with your opinion. A
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 30, 2006
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                Gee. Speaking as someone who will have a Ph.D. in AI in about 12 months
                and who has played both games extensively. I firmly disagree with your
                opinion. A lot of bugs in the old AI have vanished. The new AI is far
                from competent but it certainly plays a better game than ED. I've also
                played Rich's SoloMod a few times and my early impression is that he's
                made some very notable improvements in the AI though their impact is
                mostly felt only if you play a game on a large map.

                That combined with the all around improvements in EDEE's software
                interface and playability makes it, in my not so humble but well
                informed opinion, a far superior play. I will never, ever go back to
                the old ED.

                Barry, I suspect you've played EDEE less than half a dozen times and
                with a jaundiced eye. I want to inform the others on this list that I
                think Barry's opinion is probably a tiny, vocal minority. I encourage
                you take an open minded look at EDEE. You're almost certian to be pleased.

                Someday when I'm not so overwhelmed by my current research I'll start up
                a side project to create a really effective AI for EDEE (something else
                you could never do for ED). I don't think I can ever equal an expert
                human but I'm confident I can give expert humans a run for their money.

                :AMN:

                barryem wrote:
                > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Randy.R" <steyrhahn@...> wrote:
                >> Barry,
                >>
                >> With EDEE, one can choose unit types to only be those in the origonal
                >> ED at game create time. In fact you can make that your default if you
                >> want to.
                >
                > I realize that but since I already have Empire Deluxe and IDIE that
                > seems a little silly. Basically that would give me Empire with poorer
                > AI. Hardly an upgrade.
                >
                > Barry
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Andy Young
                The two AIs are totally different. It s like comparing fire ants and herbivores. The ED/EDIE AI was designed in 1993 and incorporated everything that the
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 30, 2006
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                  The two AIs are totally different.  It's like comparing fire ants and herbivores.
                   
                  The ED/EDIE AI was designed in 1993 and incorporated everything that the designers of the game could do within the limits of the specifications on ED.  They designed an AI that stockpiles so many infantry that its production gets  bogged down by drain.  The ED AI tends to prefer to attack known opponents rather than expand into neutral terrritory.  The AI also tends to attack with anything and everything rather than wait for enough reinforcements. 
                   
                  The EDEE AI needs to be able to deal with many kinds of units and maybe with units that it has never been programmed for.  It may be a good generalized AI, but it is not very good at playing ED.  I cannot explain it's behaviour.  It is pacifistic when it should be agressive.  It passes up attacking a transport.  It builds transports on islands that are under attack.  
                   
                  A good rule of thumb with ED/EDIE is that you need a fully loaded transport plus air and cruiser support for every city that you want to capture.  There will be enough land based retaliation that the city where you land will be devestated.  A good idea when playing multiple AI opponents is to concentrate on one opponent until it is defeated before you attack a second one.
                   
                  In EDEE, you don't need to worry much about the enemy recapturing a city.   Air support should be all you need to take out the defending land units.  You probably don't even need cruisers. 
                   
                  I recently got bored with EDEE and went back to playing against 5 AI opponents in EDIE.  I got stuck fighting off two locals coming at me from opposite sides.  When I was done with them, the remaining 3 were all bigger and stronger than I was and one had three times as many cities.  This will be interesting.
                   
                  I would be happy to discuss ways to reduce the stupidity of the EDEE AI.
                   
                  Andy Young  a.k.a GeneralError
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:35 AM
                  Subject: Re: [empire-deluxe] Re: Digest Number 761

                  Gee.  Speaking as someone who will have a Ph.D. in AI in about 12 months
                  and who has played both games extensively.  I firmly disagree with your
                  opinion.  A lot of bugs in the old AI have vanished.  The new AI is far
                  from competent but it certainly plays a better game than ED.  I've also
                  played Rich's SoloMod a few times and my early impression is that he's
                  made some very notable improvements in the AI though their impact is
                  mostly felt only if you play a game on a large map.

                  That combined with the all around improvements in EDEE's software
                  interface and playability makes it, in my not so humble but well
                  informed opinion, a far superior play.  I will never, ever go back to
                  the old ED.

                  Barry, I suspect you've played EDEE less than half a dozen times and
                  with a jaundiced eye.  I want to inform the others on this list that I
                  think Barry's opinion is probably a tiny, vocal minority.  I encourage
                  you take an open minded look at EDEE.  You're almost certian to be pleased.

                  Someday when I'm not so overwhelmed by my current research I'll start up
                  a side project to create a really effective AI for EDEE (something else
                  you could never do for ED).  I don't think I can ever equal an expert
                  human but I'm confident I can give expert humans a run for their money.

                  :AMN:

                  barryem wrote:
                  > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Randy.R" <steyrhahn@...> wrote:
                  >> Barry,
                  >>
                  >> With EDEE, one can choose unit types to only be those in the origonal
                  >> ED at game create time. In fact you can make that your default if you
                  >> want to.
                  >
                  > I realize that but since I already have Empire Deluxe and IDIE that
                  > seems a little silly.  Basically that would give me Empire with poorer
                  > AI.  Hardly an upgrade.
                  >
                  > Barry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  >
                  >
                  >
                • rich12545
                  I ve found the basic AI in EDEE is good at stuff like moving, attacking and missions like explore and transport. And it is aggressive when dealing with simple
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 30, 2006
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                    I've found the basic AI in EDEE is good at stuff like moving,
                    attacking and missions like explore and transport. And it is
                    aggressive when dealing with simple units. One problem you mentioned
                    is that a unit won't attack another (a destroyer against a transport)
                    and the best I've been able to figure is that it's on a search mission
                    and is unable to switch to attack, it keeps searching. I got an idea
                    from Mark (forget what it is) that seems to help somewhat and it's in
                    the SoloMod script. Also about the AI building a transport on an
                    island under attack. The AI builds units from a queue and if the
                    transport is next then that's it.

                    A couple of things will make the AI better. First, reduce the total
                    number of different units. That keeps down the number in the queue
                    and will increase the chance of the proper unit being produced. And
                    don't put transports in the queue. Tha AI will make them anyway for
                    transport missions. Second, only include units that the AI can use
                    well, those that don't do more than move, attack, transport etc. Also
                    eliminate the drain as it impedes AI production and expansion. The AI
                    doesn't seem to handle the drain well. There are some numbers in the
                    beginning of the script that can be increased/tweaked to help, they
                    can be found in the SoloMod script.

                    The AI in EDEE doesn't produce so many land units that it keeps as
                    defenders. So if the drain is disabled, it is going to be expanding
                    way better. And the game won't become a war of attrition at every
                    island.

                    Rich

                    --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Young"
                    <andy.young.2004@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The two AIs are totally different. It's like comparing fire ants
                    and herbivores.
                    >
                    > The ED/EDIE AI was designed in 1993 and incorporated everything that
                    the designers of the game could do within the limits of the
                    specifications on ED. They designed an AI that stockpiles so many
                    infantry that its production gets bogged down by drain. The ED AI
                    tends to prefer to attack known opponents rather than expand into
                    neutral terrritory. The AI also tends to attack with anything and
                    everything rather than wait for enough reinforcements.
                    >
                    > The EDEE AI needs to be able to deal with many kinds of units and
                    maybe with units that it has never been programmed for. It may be a
                    good generalized AI, but it is not very good at playing ED. I cannot
                    explain it's behaviour. It is pacifistic when it should be agressive.
                    It passes up attacking a transport. It builds transports on islands
                    that are under attack.
                    >
                    > A good rule of thumb with ED/EDIE is that you need a fully loaded
                    transport plus air and cruiser support for every city that you want to
                    capture. There will be enough land based retaliation that the city
                    where you land will be devestated. A good idea when playing multiple
                    AI opponents is to concentrate on one opponent until it is defeated
                    before you attack a second one.
                    >
                    > In EDEE, you don't need to worry much about the enemy recapturing a
                    city. Air support should be all you need to take out the defending
                    land units. You probably don't even need cruisers.
                    >
                    > I recently got bored with EDEE and went back to playing against 5 AI
                    opponents in EDIE. I got stuck fighting off two locals coming at me
                    from opposite sides. When I was done with them, the remaining 3 were
                    all bigger and stronger than I was and one had three times as many
                    cities. This will be interesting.
                    >
                    > I would be happy to discuss ways to reduce the stupidity of the EDEE AI.
                    >
                    > Andy Young a.k.a GeneralError
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Andrew Nuxoll
                    > To: empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:35 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [empire-deluxe] Re: Digest Number 761
                    >
                    >
                    > Gee. Speaking as someone who will have a Ph.D. in AI in about 12
                    months
                    > and who has played both games extensively. I firmly disagree with
                    your
                    > opinion. A lot of bugs in the old AI have vanished. The new AI
                    is far
                    > from competent but it certainly plays a better game than ED. I've
                    also
                    > played Rich's SoloMod a few times and my early impression is that
                    he's
                    > made some very notable improvements in the AI though their impact is
                    > mostly felt only if you play a game on a large map.
                    >
                    > That combined with the all around improvements in EDEE's software
                    > interface and playability makes it, in my not so humble but well
                    > informed opinion, a far superior play. I will never, ever go back to
                    > the old ED.
                    >
                    > Barry, I suspect you've played EDEE less than half a dozen times and
                    > with a jaundiced eye. I want to inform the others on this list
                    that I
                    > think Barry's opinion is probably a tiny, vocal minority. I
                    encourage
                    > you take an open minded look at EDEE. You're almost certian to be
                    pleased.
                    >
                    > Someday when I'm not so overwhelmed by my current research I'll
                    start up
                    > a side project to create a really effective AI for EDEE (something
                    else
                    > you could never do for ED). I don't think I can ever equal an expert
                    > human but I'm confident I can give expert humans a run for their
                    money.
                    >
                    > :AMN:
                    >
                    > barryem wrote:
                    > > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Randy.R" <steyrhahn@> wrote:
                    > >> Barry,
                    > >>
                    > >> With EDEE, one can choose unit types to only be those in the
                    origonal
                    > >> ED at game create time. In fact you can make that your default
                    if you
                    > >> want to.
                    > >
                    > > I realize that but since I already have Empire Deluxe and IDIE that
                    > > seems a little silly. Basically that would give me Empire with
                    poorer
                    > > AI. Hardly an upgrade.
                    > >
                    > > Barry
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS Multiplayer games Multiplayer games online
                    Multiplayer online games
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                  • barryem
                    ... months ... your ... far ... also ... he s ... I like short, fast games on small maps so maybe I haven t been playing against the AI s strength. I do know
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 1 6:47 AM
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                      --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Nuxoll <anuxoll@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Gee. Speaking as someone who will have a Ph.D. in AI in about 12
                      months
                      > and who has played both games extensively. I firmly disagree with
                      your
                      > opinion. A lot of bugs in the old AI have vanished. The new AI is
                      far
                      > from competent but it certainly plays a better game than ED. I've
                      also
                      > played Rich's SoloMod a few times and my early impression is that
                      he's
                      > made some very notable improvements in the AI though their impact is
                      > mostly felt only if you play a game on a large map.

                      I like short, fast games on small maps so maybe I haven't been playing
                      against the AI's strength. I do know that with Empire Deluxe with
                      myself playing against a single other player and all strengths at
                      default I would win about 80% of the games. With EDEE so far I've
                      never lost. I've taken to using three or four computer players to
                      give me more challange but I've still never lost.

                      I still play EDIE most of the time.

                      I will say that if i was playing an online game or an email game I
                      might prefer EDEE. But I haven't done much of that and the little I
                      have done was with EDIE because that's what the other player had.

                      I've lost the CD to Empire Deluxe somehow or I'd still be playing
                      that. Mark has said that EDIE uses the same AI and, while I'm sure
                      Mark believes what he says I think ED did have better AI.

                      Barry
                    • rich12545
                      Barry, when you say that with EDEE you ve never lost, are you referring to the Standard AI right out of the box? Rich
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 1 8:24 AM
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                        Barry, when you say that with EDEE you've never lost, are you
                        referring to the Standard AI right out of the box?

                        Rich

                        --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "barryem" <barryem@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Nuxoll <anuxoll@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Gee. Speaking as someone who will have a Ph.D. in AI in about 12
                        > months
                        > > and who has played both games extensively. I firmly disagree with
                        > your
                        > > opinion. A lot of bugs in the old AI have vanished. The new AI is
                        > far
                        > > from competent but it certainly plays a better game than ED. I've
                        > also
                        > > played Rich's SoloMod a few times and my early impression is that
                        > he's
                        > > made some very notable improvements in the AI though their impact is
                        > > mostly felt only if you play a game on a large map.
                        >
                        > I like short, fast games on small maps so maybe I haven't been playing
                        > against the AI's strength. I do know that with Empire Deluxe with
                        > myself playing against a single other player and all strengths at
                        > default I would win about 80% of the games. With EDEE so far I've
                        > never lost. I've taken to using three or four computer players to
                        > give me more challange but I've still never lost.
                        >
                        > I still play EDIE most of the time.
                        >
                        > I will say that if i was playing an online game or an email game I
                        > might prefer EDEE. But I haven't done much of that and the little I
                        > have done was with EDIE because that's what the other player had.
                        >
                        > I've lost the CD to Empire Deluxe somehow or I'd still be playing
                        > that. Mark has said that EDIE uses the same AI and, while I'm sure
                        > Mark believes what he says I think ED did have better AI.
                        >
                        > Barry
                        >
                      • barryem
                        ... Yes I am. I did download the Solo mod and try it out the other day. It seems a little better but I haven t played it enough to be sure. The game I was
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 2 7:18 AM
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                          --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "rich12545" <rich12545@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Barry, when you say that with EDEE you've never lost, are you
                          > referring to the Standard AI right out of the box?

                          Yes I am.

                          I did download the Solo mod and try it out the other day. It seems a
                          little better but I haven't played it enough to be sure. The game I
                          was playing got interrupted and I haven't gotten back to it.

                          Barry
                        • rich12545
                          ... Well, then you re comparing apples to oranges. The EDIE AI is good and it s finished. The Standard mod (script + db) in EDEE isn t. Even though you can
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 2 12:35 PM
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                            --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "barryem" <barryem@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "rich12545" <rich12545@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Barry, when you say that with EDEE you've never lost, are you
                            > > referring to the Standard AI right out of the box?
                            >
                            > Yes I am.
                            >
                            > I did download the Solo mod and try it out the other day. It seems a
                            > little better but I haven't played it enough to be sure. The game I
                            > was playing got interrupted and I haven't gotten back to it.
                            >
                            > Barry
                            >
                            Well, then you're comparing apples to oranges. The EDIE AI is good
                            and it's finished. The Standard "mod" (script + db) in EDEE isn't.
                            Even though you can play the Standard, it won't give you a very good
                            game. The script has problems and the db has lots of units that the
                            AI.dll hasn't been programmed to use intelligently. I look at it as a
                            place to start to build a better script/db. Imo SoloMod is the only
                            thing that will give you a good game against the computer. Other than
                            the Standard the only other mod is Ultra and that has way too many
                            units that the AI.dll hasn't been programmed to use well. Btw, if you
                            want to try SM again, I just put up a new one.

                            Rich
                          • Paul
                            I downloaded and installed Solo Mod and the first problem I ran into is with the fighters -- they won t fly. Make all you want, they just stack up in the city.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 25, 2006
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                              I downloaded and installed Solo Mod and the first problem I ran into
                              is with the fighters -- they won't fly. Make all you want, they just
                              stack up in the city. I've tried just about everything I can think of,
                              including "take off," to no avail. Anybody else have this problem or
                              is it something I haven't thought of yet?

                              "Pete"

                              --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "rich12545" <rich12545@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "barryem" <barryem@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "rich12545" <rich12545@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Barry, when you say that with EDEE you've never lost, are you
                              > > > referring to the Standard AI right out of the box?
                              > >
                              > > Yes I am.
                              > >
                              > > I did download the Solo mod and try it out the other day. It seems a
                              > > little better but I haven't played it enough to be sure. The game I
                              > > was playing got interrupted and I haven't gotten back to it.
                              > >
                              > > Barry
                              > >
                              > Well, then you're comparing apples to oranges. The EDIE AI is good
                              > and it's finished. The Standard "mod" (script + db) in EDEE isn't.
                              > Even though you can play the Standard, it won't give you a very good
                              > game. The script has problems and the db has lots of units that the
                              > AI.dll hasn't been programmed to use intelligently. I look at it as a
                              > place to start to build a better script/db. Imo SoloMod is the only
                              > thing that will give you a good game against the computer. Other than
                              > the Standard the only other mod is Ultra and that has way too many
                              > units that the AI.dll hasn't been programmed to use well. Btw, if you
                              > want to try SM again, I just put up a new one.
                              >
                              > Rich
                              >
                            • rich12545
                              I don t know what problem you re having, but the current version of SoloMod has fighters that fly. Feel free to send a save game to the address in the readme.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 27, 2006
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                                I don't know what problem you're having, but the current version of
                                SoloMod has fighters that fly. Feel free to send a save game to the
                                address in the readme. I'll take a look and see if I can find what's
                                wrong.

                                I've been tweaking the script to SM and believe the production
                                problems have been solved pretty much. I still recommend an extra
                                city for all ai players to offset inevitable ai poor decisions. The
                                new and final version of SM is complete. It is only waiting for the
                                upcoming patch to possibly incorporate any new features. I will also
                                convert all my scenarios (280) and maps (215) to EDEE using the
                                SoloMod mod. Everything will be posted in the EDEE mods forum within
                                a few days of the patch being issued.

                                Rich

                                --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <daddyrabbitp@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I downloaded and installed Solo Mod and the first problem I ran into
                                > is with the fighters -- they won't fly. Make all you want, they just
                                > stack up in the city. I've tried just about everything I can think of,
                                > including "take off," to no avail. Anybody else have this problem or
                                > is it something I haven't thought of yet?
                                >
                                > "Pete"
                                >
                                > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "rich12545" <rich12545@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "barryem" <barryem@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "rich12545" <rich12545@>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Barry, when you say that with EDEE you've never lost, are you
                                > > > > referring to the Standard AI right out of the box?
                                > > >
                                > > > Yes I am.
                                > > >
                                > > > I did download the Solo mod and try it out the other day. It
                                seems a
                                > > > little better but I haven't played it enough to be sure. The
                                game I
                                > > > was playing got interrupted and I haven't gotten back to it.
                                > > >
                                > > > Barry
                                > > >
                                > > Well, then you're comparing apples to oranges. The EDIE AI is good
                                > > and it's finished. The Standard "mod" (script + db) in EDEE isn't.
                                > > Even though you can play the Standard, it won't give you a very good
                                > > game. The script has problems and the db has lots of units that the
                                > > AI.dll hasn't been programmed to use intelligently. I look at it as a
                                > > place to start to build a better script/db. Imo SoloMod is the only
                                > > thing that will give you a good game against the computer. Other than
                                > > the Standard the only other mod is Ultra and that has way too many
                                > > units that the AI.dll hasn't been programmed to use well. Btw, if you
                                > > want to try SM again, I just put up a new one.
                                > >
                                > > Rich
                                > >
                                >
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