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EDEE and specialties

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  • barryem
    I m finding that a lot of the specialties of the cities don t make sense in the new version. For example, landlocked cities that speccialize in battleships.
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 1, 2005
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      I'm finding that a lot of the specialties of the cities don't make
      sense in the new version. For example, landlocked cities that
      speccialize in battleships. I don't recall that happening in the
      older versions unless there was a small spot of adjacent water but
      it's common in EDEE.

      Yesterday I began a game where I was on a fairly large island among
      continents and I had only one city and it was landlocked. The
      interesting thing was this was a screen sized map with 100 cities,
      just for a change of pace.

      I'm also finding that the other civilizations don't try very hard.
      Games are no challange at all. In earlier versions I always played
      head to head against the computer and it was challanging but now I'm
      playing a 3 player game and still there's no challange. I've tried
      a 4 player game but it was as easy. Basically the computer doesn't
      try to spread out.

      I hope work is being done on this stuff. I like this game a lot. I
      think playing against a real person would be great but I'm used to
      playing against the computer.

      Barry
    • Andrew Platfoot
      Barry I am not sure anyone has answered your query so let me offer my two rupees worth. The issue of specialities has come up before. Several people wondered
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 3, 2005
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        Barry

        I am not sure anyone has answered your query so let me
        offer my two rupees worth.

        The issue of specialities has come up before. Several
        people wondered about land locked cities specialising
        in ship units.

        Basically as I understand Mark's reply, the allocation
        of specialities and in fact the very nature of a city
        is vastly changed in edee. I think this has much to
        do with Mark's desire to make the game open and
        configurable by those who like to modify games as much
        as they do play them.

        Occasionally you do get strange events like land
        locked cities building ships. I guess Mark could have
        started pouring check code into the design to stop
        this from happeneing. But as anyone who has ever
        written code will tell you, in built limits tend to
        back fire on you.

        The solution in edee is simple. You can obviously
        ignore the specialty for that city. But a neater
        solution is to get engineers to link the city to the
        ocean with a series of sea ports. Of course there are
        practical limits as to how many ports you want to
        chain together to build a sea lane although in theory
        the game imposes no limits. You could build hundreds
        of them if you wanted to and create a sort of Panama,
        Suez or Kiel Canal. But I have found often, just one
        port will open a sea passage from such cities.

        This trick of building ports can also be used to
        create a seaway across a continent by building the
        ports at the narrowest part of the continent. It’s a
        sneaky way of moving whole navies and transports
        through passages an enemy cannot use.

        The other point about land locked cities producing
        heavy ships is you can surround such strategic cities
        with armour, anti aircraft and heavy artillery unit to
        protect them against enemy attack or capture.

        In terms of how tough an opponent the AI player is, I
        don't think it is any weaker than EDIE or ED. In some
        ways it is tougher as it has more units to play with
        in edee.

        I think over the next few months those who like to
        modify will start to produce new AI scripts that will
        provide even tougher opponents. Mark was limited by
        time and the fact he alone worked on the code. Now
        there are dozens of people out there making changes to
        specific areas such as units, maps and tactics.

        The AI script is quite readable you could even draw up
        a set of engagement rules which I am sure someone here
        could help you implement in your own AI scripts. In
        fact all the things you like about ED and EDIE could
        potentially be strengthened or even added back to the
        game, if in fact they had really been deleted. Don’t
        forget to make backup copies of files you change
        before you start hacking ;->

        Hope this ramble gives you some ideas to play with -

        Cheers
        A


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      • barryem
        ... Thanks for taking the time to answer. I haven t gotten into ports yet but I will. Frankly I ve only done a little with the new units. I m winning every
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 3, 2005
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          --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Platfoot
          <andrew_platfoot@y...> wrote:
          > Barry
          >
          > I am not sure anyone has answered your query so let me
          > offer my two rupees worth.

          Thanks for taking the time to answer.

          I haven't gotten into ports yet but I will. Frankly I've only done
          a little with the new units. I'm winning every game easily without
          them.

          I have done some coding. Thirty some-odd years, almost forty, most
          of it as a systems programmer. I retired several years ago and I'm
          way out of date now. In fact I was a few years out of date when I
          retired, having mostly worked at non-coding tasks the last few
          years. While I don't know the ins and outs of this program I can't
          see why not letting landlocked cities specialize in ships would
          backfire. But given time constraints I can understand putting it
          aside.

          What I'm doing is offering my observations; not as complaints so
          much. Just observations. It's a new game and there are things I
          personally think should be fixed and changed and I'm saying so in
          the place where the person or people who can do that changing are
          listening. If some of it gets done, great. If not, well, I said my
          piece.

          All in all I like the direction this new game has taken. There are
          some clever and well thought out ideas in it and some very major
          improvements. For my part it was overdone. But one of the
          improvements is that I can control that and simplify it to my taste,
          which I'm doing slowly as I learn more about it.

          I don't plan on doing any coding or scripting although I might
          change my mind about that at some point. But much of the AI seems
          improved over IDIE. It's just that the computer players need some
          ambition. :)

          If nothing changes and this is the game I bought forever, I'm okay.
          It's well worth what I paid for it and I'll keep on playing it.

          Barry
        • Andrew Platfoot
          Barry I will see if I can fish out some notes some of us made on the AI script. If you have any coding or system experience you will find it quite obvious and
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 4, 2005
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            Barry

            I will see if I can fish out some notes some of us
            made on the AI script. If you have any coding or
            system experience you will find it quite obvious and
            intuitive if you take the time to work through it.
            Remember it is computer script not English literature.
            You have to work your way through the stuff over
            several passes.

            You could then begin to see how the AI plays the game
            and then start to make modifications. There are
            obviously some limits to the underlying game engine
            but some of the coders out there are working on that
            aspect.

            You might find some additional challenges and fun
            setting up the strategy through scripting changes and
            then fight your war and see what sort of a
            general/admiral/air marshal you are in reality. You
            might find like most of histories general that some of
            your war theories have weak spots.

            There is also a guy out there (William Bird) who has
            done some good documentation on the unit database. I
            think Mark has it on his site somewhere. It is worth a
            read as it points out some of the parameters you have
            to play with if you decide to modify the game or add
            units.

            Even Mark would admit the game has potential for
            development and I know he likes to hear about good
            ideas. I am sure he will issue more patches to fix
            minor blind spots and add new stuff over the coming
            months and years.

            Going back to land locked cities and battleships and
            adding in constraints, I would offer the following
            point of view.

            I believe one of Mark's design goals was to try and
            open the game so others could modify it in the future.
            This is what keeps games alive because it extends the
            design phase almost indefinitely. The problem is for
            every piece of code Mark puts in to stop some
            perceived problem, you now have something which may
            now clobbers someone elses clever extension.

            I belong to the Fleet Command forum where some very
            impressive work has been done to update the game, its
            features (strategy), units and accuracy. But the
            constant answer coming from the mod group when some
            one suggests something new is "The game engine won't
            allow you to do that". It is creating some real
            limits to where the game could go in terms of
            development.

            In the case of edee, whether by intent or accident,
            rather than stop landlocked cities building ships the
            player is allowed to come up with a strategy to take
            advantage of a situation. This has happened a few
            times in other areas. Some of us wanted engineers to
            build canals to create short cuts for the fleet. This
            idea did not get through so now you can string ports
            together to cut across continents.

            Some of us wanted to experiment with range limited
            ships so destroyers could not wander the world
            forever. It turns out with a very minor code fix (in
            the EDIE “out of fuel” warning) Mark could allow this
            feature. There were no code limits to stop this
            feature. Now some of us are experimenting with fleet
            replenishment ships to allow destroyers to have
            extended range. Then there was the possibility of
            carriers loaded with helicopters carrying infantry.
            The lack of constraints makes the game very open to
            clever ideas as well as modification.

            You may not be so interested in such stuff but others
            would like to fiddle and I for one am glad there have
            not been too many occasions when the game engine has
            blocked these extensions.


            Cheers

            A





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          • barryem
            ... I know almost nothing about military strategy as such. I used to love playing chess but I never understood it as a war game. Like Empire, it s a game of
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 5, 2005
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              --- In empire-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Platfoot
              <andrew_platfoot@y...> wrote:
              > Barry
              >
              > You might find some additional challenges and fun
              > setting up the strategy through scripting changes and
              > then fight your war and see what sort of a
              > general/admiral/air marshal you are in reality. You
              > might find like most of histories general that some of
              > your war theories have weak spots.

              I know almost nothing about military strategy as such. I used to
              love playing chess but I never understood it as a war game. Like
              Empire, it's a game of geometry to me. And with Empire, there's a
              little luck thrown in.

              I don't really have any interest in changing the game. First I want
              to learn more about what all the new elements are and then I'll
              probably reduce them somewhat to simplify things. After that it'll
              just be the fun of playing it. It's a visual experience to me.

              I'm very glad there are people who are interested in expanding the
              game. I might want to use some of what they come up with. But to me
              the fun is playing it.

              > Going back to land locked cities and battleships and
              > adding in constraints, I would offer the following
              > point of view.

              My objection wasn't to having land-locked cities being able to
              produce ships. I think that's a good idea. Especially now that I
              know ports can be built to connect to water. But I suspect that'll
              be a very minor part of the game and having the cities specialize in
              ships takes a little away from the game as a whole. Granted it's
              not a big thing. Just an irksome little thing. Maybe an option to
              allow or not allow that would make sense.

              Barry
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