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Re: Carl Rogers on the "Emergence" proposal

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  • (I)An-ok Ta Chai
    Heya Conal & Holly, I m struck by your two responses, how very similar they are! I am glad that I was able to contribute to ya ll. Since you both enjoyed this
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 22, 2008
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      Heya Conal & Holly,

      I'm struck by your two responses, how very similar they are! I am glad
      that I was able to contribute to ya'll.

      Since you both enjoyed this piece so, I just now up-loaded to the
      files section of this group the entire article of which that piece was
      a part of. You might find the rest of the article interesting/useful
      as well.

      Conal wrote:

      > How about forwarding the essay to the cnvc-certification group and
      >to the NVC Evolves group? Or if you'd rather not, do you mind if I
      >do?


      I just forwarded it on to the NVC Evolves group. The
      "nvccertificationcandidates" group I sent it to back in Feb, 2005. You
      can go to that group and search for the subject-line "Carl Rogers on
      certification" to read the discussion that happened around that then.

      You're welcome to send that out to that list again, over three years
      later, to see if people respond differently.

      In liberation,

      (I)An-ok
    • Emma McCreary
      I really enjoyed reading this as well. So well thought out and clear. Something that jumped out at me was the line terror it strikes in the heart of the
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 22, 2008
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        I really enjoyed reading this as well. So well thought out and clear.

        Something that jumped out at me was the line "terror it strikes in
        the heart of the person who has struggled to become a "professional."

        I think of certification something like hazing. As in people start
        feeling like "I went through this, you should have to too".

        I feel lucky to live in a state (Oregon) that does not (yet) require
        licensure to do counseling. Recently I've been contemplating learning
        to offer counseling to people (combining NVC, Hakomi, mindfulness,
        and whatever else is helpful). I simply cannot stomach formal
        education any more - I've experienced it as very deadening. And I'm
        heartened to clear from my consciousness the idea that I "need" to
        get a M.A. or jump through similar hoops. Instead I'm asking
        myself "What training/practice/etc would help me feel confident that
        I am genuinely helping?". It feels so much more alive and inspiring
        to me than looking at a list of requirements.

        I believe it also inspires a sense of responsibility for self. If
        I'm "self-certifying", I'm going to have to really ask myself "Am I
        ready? What more do I need to learn?". This kind of honest self-
        evaluation and responsibility is what I hope all
        helping "professionals" would have. And yet it seems to me that the
        idea that "200 supervised hours" or another arbitrary external
        criteria magically makes one qualified inherently demotes self-
        evaluation in favor of external evaluation. It reinforces this idea
        that other people know you better than you know you. Which is exactly
        the opposite of the kind of self-awareness that I hope to inspire in
        people I'm offering to help.

        I'm very happy and inspired reading this, and if I do decide to
        become a counselor and/or NVC teacher and have a website and
        an "about page", I'm going to include that article under an FAQ
        saying "Are you properly licensed, certified, and rubber-stamped?".
        Heh. =)
      • Ronnie H.
        I felt compelled to put in a note on licensure/certification/competence. I hope that it contributes to this discussion. As someone who spent 15 years working
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 22, 2008
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          I felt compelled to put in a note on
          licensure/certification/competence. I hope that it contributes to
          this discussion.

          As someone who spent 15 years working in state government making
          policy related to licensure in the health professions, I thought that
          I would add my two cents. Licensure tests knowledge, but not
          competence. Competence is a judgment. There is no objective
          measure. Clients want professionals to be competent, and not just
          have the requisite knowledge. Most licensed professionals are
          competent in some aspects of their profession and not so competent or
          even totally incompetent in others. Because I believe that most of
          them, at the very least, are doing no direct harm, I also believe
          that most of them are practicing within their scope of competence.

          Licensure is designed, in principle, to protect the public, but it
          also protects the interests of the professions. Most legislation to
          establish new licensed professions in New York, for example, is
          initiated by profession associations, not by consumers clamoring for
          more regulation, nor by ardent bureaucrats yearning to protect the
          public. Professional associations employ lobbyists to get their
          legislation through the system. These same professional associations
          write the terms of the legislation, including the definition of the
          profession. And, in New York, for example, once a profession has a
          legal definition (scope of practice), ONLY people in that profession
          or other licensed professions (in the case of overlap of scope of
          practice) may practice that profession, EVEN IF IT IS CALLED
          SOMETHING ELSE.

          Competence might show up as a "felt sense," as the folks who practice
          Focusing might say. You feel it in your gut as a result of x amount
          of study, observation and practice. Competence is dynamic: It
          depends on the what, when, where and with whom. I used to tell
          licensed professionals to make an internal assessment and ask
          themselves, "Am I competent to do this?" before touching each and
          every patient. I would say the same about NVC. I really liked what
          Emma said about competence. She will self-certify when she is she
          feels that she is competent. Certified or not, it's about taking
          responsibility for yourself and your actions.

          Ronnie
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