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Re: [Embracing Islam] Hijab in Light of the Qur'an and Sunnah

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  • S.A
    The Hijab of Muslim Woman by Abdulaziz Addwesh http://free.freespeech.org/sultan/hijab.pdf
    Message 1 of 25 , May 1, 2001
      The Hijab of Muslim Woman by Abdulaziz Addwesh

      http://free.freespeech.org/sultan/hijab.pdf
    • Abdullah al-Kidd
      Wa alaikum salaam The word Khimaar is used in the Qur an...What does it mean? What the did the scholars of Tafseer say about this word? What is the apparent
      Message 2 of 25 , May 1, 2002
        Wa alaikum salaam

        The word Khimaar is used in the Qur'an...What does it
        mean? What the did the scholars of Tafseer say about
        this word? What is the apparent meaning of the word
        in Arabic?


        --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
        >
        > Assalamoalakum,
        > Please do let us know where the word headcovering is
        > used in the Quran since in the other mail it does
        > not say so. I am well aware of Arabic and hence am
        > not aware of any such requirement in the Quran. To
        > say that it is when it is not, is a pure
        > fabrication/bidaa.
        > Regards,
        > Abdullah al-Kidd <abujilani@...> wrote: As
        > salaam alaikum
        >
        > True indeed that it is a terrible fabrication, but
        > you
        > are wrong when you say that it is not mandated in
        > the
        > Qur'an. One advise that we should never be tired of
        > hearing is speaking about Allah, His Books, His
        > Messenger, etc. without knowledge. We should be
        > soooo
        > afraid of saying what is Halal and what is Haraam;
        > what is in the Qur'an and what is in the Sunnah.
        > When
        > we do this without knowledge we have made big sin;
        > we
        > have lied against Allah and/or His Messenger (SAWS).
        >
        > Your statement suggests that you have not read the
        > Qur'an or that you don't understand the Arabic
        > language or that you are speaking without knowledge.
        >
        > It is clear from the understanding of the Sahabah
        > and
        > Sahabiaat, the Mothers of the Believers, and those
        > who
        > followed them that HIJAB is mentioned in the Qur'an
        > and an order from our Lord. Insha'allah, I will
        > post
        > something which covers this subject. We must fear
        > Allah and adhere to that which His Last and Final
        > Messenger Muhammad (SAWS) brought and follow the
        > understanding of our pious predecessors.
        >
        > your brother in Islam
        >
        > Abdullah
        > --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > This is really a terrible fabrication to say that
        > > any woman who does not wear a headcovering will go
        > > to hell. This is falsely attributed to Islam as
        > even
        > > a headcovering is not mandated in the Quran which
        > is
        > > the only Book of Islam and the teaching of the
        > > prophet.
        > > Regards,
        > > wife momma
        > > <honeydrawsbeesbetterthanvinegar@...> wrote:
        > > Will a woman who does not wear hijaab go to Hell?
        > > You can access the answer by pointing your
        > internet
        > > browser to the
        > > link:
        > >
        >
        http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=7436
        > >
        > >
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      • Abdullah al-Kidd
        You are beating your head against a brick wall...I mean your beating a drum with a broken stick...I mean your eating soup with a fork. I think you get the
        Message 3 of 25 , May 1, 2002
          You are beating your head against a brick wall...I
          mean your beating a drum with a broken stick...I mean
          your eating soup with a fork.

          I think you get the point. Anyway, why are you
          critisizing what has been translated? The real
          question is if the translation accompanies the meaning
          of the verse. You could only answer that question if
          you have studied Tafsir or at least could read and
          understand what the scholars of Tafsir have stated
          about that ayah and the ayat which discuss Hijab.


          --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
          >
          > Salaam,
          >
          > The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59
          >
          > O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and
          > the
          > women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)*
          > all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves
          > completely except the eyes or one eye to see the
          > way).
          > That will be better, that they should be known (as
          > free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed.
          > And
          > Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
          >
          >
          > --> Notice the interpolation of the book of God
          > where in the parantheses additional requirements are
          > added as a pure fabrication over and above the
          > original verse in Arabic.
          >
          >
          > *the arabic word here is Jalabeeb (plural of
          > Jalbaab),
          > which is the loose outer garment that covers all a
          > woman's body. It says here to use the Jalabeeb to
          > cover all, and scholars say this means to use it to
          > cover her head (agree upon by all scholars) and her
          > face (agreed by many scholars, not all) and one or
          > both eyes, in order for it to be known that she is a
          > free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm.
          >
          >
          > --> A simple word Jalbab cannot have so many
          > conflicting meanings. It meant a cloak and only in
          > the case where harrassment is expected as is in
          > 33:59.

          All you have to do is study Fiqh and you can see that
          there many opinions about many things. It is clear
          from a Fiqh point of view that there are many opinions
          about Hijab. The opinion holders are divided into two
          groups. One group says that Jilbab in this verse
          means the complete covering including the face. The
          second group states that this verse means the complete
          covering without the face. But all agree that it does
          cover the head in some way shape or fashion.


          > --> The rest of the mutually contradictory "hadiths"
          > are neither given by Allah nor his prophet for us to
          > follow. These are simply unreliable stories.

          Who are you to stay that these ahadith are not
          authentic. When the ijma' of the Muslims have
          accepted these ahadith. The Prophet (SAWS) guaranteed
          us success on issue where there is 'ijma' or
          consensus. Also, it is a grave sin to speak without
          knowledge and you could be denying what Allah has
          commanded you to accept. You may be putting yourself
          above that which you have no knowledge of. You may be
          putting yourself above Allah and His Messenger. I'm
          sure you know the warning against doing such a thing
          in Suratul Hujurat. From what basis can you prove
          that these ahadith are not from Muhammad (SAWS). FEAR
          ALLAH in your response!!!




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        • Abdullah al-Kidd
          So here I would like to point out the benefit of this knowledge humbly called, mustalahahul hadeeth (the science of hadeeth), and its effect upon the
          Message 4 of 25 , May 1, 2002
            So here I would like to point out the benefit of this
            knowledge humbly called, 'mustalahahul hadeeth' (the
            science of hadeeth), and its effect upon the
            divinely-revealed, and historical sciences, and other
            than them from the various types of sciences which are
            established from the authentic texts, and which rely
            upon it.

            So verily the Muslims - from the first generation -
            had a great concern for memorization of the chains of
            narration in their Revelation from the Book and the
            Sunnah, the like of which no nation from before them
            had. So they memorized the Qur`aan, and they reported
            from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
            sallam) frequently, sentence by sentence, and word by
            word, and letter by letter. They preserved it in their
            chests, and they confirmed it upon pages of their
            writings, and they authored books about it with
            exhaustive detail. They also memorized much about
            their Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam),
            everyone of his statements or actions or conditions.
            He was a teacher from his Lord, and an explainer of
            His Revelation, and a commander of the establishment
            of His Religion. All of his (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
            sallam) statements and actions and conditions are an
            explanation of the Qur`aan. He is the infallible
            Messenger and the good example. Allaah the Exalted
            says in describing him:

            "He does not speak from desire. Verily it is not but
            Revelation revealed to him." [Sooratun Najm 53:3-4]

            Allaah says:

            "And We revealed to you the Reminder for you to
            explain to the people what has been revealed to them,
            in the hopes that they may become thoughtful."
            [Sooratun Nahl 16:44]

            Allaah also says:

            "Indeed there is a good example for you in the
            Messenger of Allaah." [Sooratul Ahzaab 33:21]

            'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar Ibnul 'Aas used to write
            everything he heard from the Messenger of Allaah, so
            the Quraysh forbade him from that and it was mentioned
            to the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he
            said: "Write. So by the One in Whose Hand my soul is,
            nothing emanates from me except truth." [2] The
            Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) commanded the
            Muslims in the farewell pilgrimage to teach about him
            as a general command. So he said: "So let the one who
            is present teach the one who is absent. So it may be
            that the one who is being taught may be more heedful
            than him." [3] He also said: "So let the one who is
            present teach the one who is absent, for the one who
            taught may be more heedful than the one who heard
            directly." [4] So the Muslims understood that all this
            was obligatory upon them. They memorized everything
            about the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and
            they acted upon that, and they went to great lengths
            to fulfill this trust, and they related hadeeths from
            him; either as well known (mashhoor), or with
            authentically established chains of narrations.
            According to the scholars, this is named an authentic
            hadeeth (hadeeth saheeh) or a good hadeeth (hadeeth
            hasan).

            The scholars of hadeeth took great care to make sure
            they collected everything that was narrated from him
            as a narration, even if it was not authentic. Then
            they strove to authenticate every hadeeth, and every
            letter narrated in a narration. So they criticized
            their conditions and their narrations and they took
            the most extreme care in quoting. So they would rule a
            hadeeth to be weak due to a little doubt in the
            biography of a narrator's character which affected his
            reliability according to the people of knowledge. So
            if they doubted in his truthfulness and they knew that
            he had lied about something in his statements, then
            they would discard his narrations and they would call
            his hadeeth fabricated (mawdhoo') or lies (makdhoob),
            even if he was not particularly known for lying in
            narrating hadeeths and even though they knew the liar
            could have been telling the truth.

            Likewise, they used to check the memorization of every
            narrator and read his narrations with other ones. So
            if they found many mistakes from him and his
            memorization was not good, they would declare his
            narrations weak, even if he had not been disparaged in
            his character or his truthfulness. It was feared that
            his memory might be unreliable in his narrations.

            Indeed they wrote and compiled the fundamental
            principles that were required for the acceptance of
            hadeeth, so these are the fundamental principles of
            this field of study. So they refined them with as
            close examination as humanly possible, so as to
            preserve their Religion. So the fundamental that they
            established became the soundest fundamentals for
            confirming historical accounts and the finest and the
            most delicate, even though it is despised - in these
            later times - by most of the people since they do not
            have adequate knowledge about it or clarification.

            So the scholars of many different sciences followed
            them in this. So the scholars of language and the
            scholars of literature and the scholars of history and
            other than these imitated them. So they made efforts
            to relate everything of their sciences with a chain of
            narrators, as you will see in the older books. So the
            foundations of this knowledge were used with the
            intention of authenticating narrations in anything
            that involved narrating. So this knowledge is the
            basis for any narration-based science.

            Along with this however, there were some people who
            innovated a vile innovation. They alleged that
            hadeeths could not be used as proofs because, in some
            conventions, it was called 'uncertain affirmation'
            (dhanniyyatuth thuboot). This means that it was not
            affirmed with concurrency (tawaatur) requiring
            absoluteness in narrations. So they concluded that
            such narrations do not provide conclusive knowledge.
            This group did not realize that the term 'definitive
            knowledge' was just a convention among some scholars
            to be applied to some sciences only. In the case of
            hadeeth however, the most authentic reports were
            declared authentic by any scholar who had studied
            hadeeth, even if it was not concurrent (mutawaatir).
            If they were to reject every non-recurrent narration,
            then they should first eliminate every science that
            relies upon narration; including history. However, at
            that time, the group that went with such a bad opinion
            was small, overwhelmed, and they did not have any
            influence upon Islaamic sciences.

            However in this century, there has appeared a new
            group who alleged the same old allegations and more.
            They claim that all hadeeths are unauthentic and
            baseless, so it is not allowed to use them as proofs
            in matters of the Religion. Some even went to the
            point of rejecting all the rules and fundamental set
            for hadeeth checking; and started authenticating
            hadeeths according to desires and feelings, without
            any particular rule or proof. For these people, there
            is no cure except if they learn Islaamic knowledge and
            have respect for it, and Allaah guides whomever He
            wills.

            So as for the attack upon authentic hadeeths, and the
            doubt in their attribution to the Prophet (sallallaahu
            'alayhi wa sallam), then this is nothing less than an
            announcement of war against the Muslims for those who
            do it despite knowledge. It is also due to ignorance
            and lack of study for those who blindly follow the
            first group. So the meaning of this doubt and attack
            is that all the reliable narrators from amongst the
            Salafus-Saalih were untrustworthy liars. It
            necessitates accusing them of either telling lies and
            misleading the people, or of ignorance and stupidity.
            Indeed Allaah rescued them from these things, and they
            knew the reality of the statement of the Messenger of
            Allaah: "Whoever lies upon me deliberately, then let
            him take his seat in the Fire." [5] He also said:
            "Whoever relates a hadeeth from me and thinks that it
            is a lie, then he is one of the liars." [6]

            So the one who accuses them of lying has passed a
            judgement which is free of any good quality and which
            will cause him to dwell in the Fire. This is because
            lying is from the greatest of major sins, then it is
            from the most evil of qualities and the worst of them.
            No nation shall succeed if lying is common among its
            people, even if it is in small matters. So what about
            telling lies in the Religion and about the best of the
            Messengers (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam)? Indeed the
            people of the first generation of Muslims - and in the
            first three generations - were the best of the people
            and the highest in character and they were the most
            fearful of Allaah. So due to that, Allaah aided them
            and gave them victory and opened many counties to them
            and they came to rule many nations in a few years.
            This was because of their Religion and beautiful
            character before it was due to their sword and spear.



            Footnotes:

            [1] This is taken from 'al-Baa'ithul Hatheeth Sharh
            Ikhtisaar 'Uloomul Hadeeth' - shaykh Ahmad Shaakir's
            commentary on 'Ikhtisaar 'Uloomul Hadeeth' by
            al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer, (p. 13-16)

            [2] Related by Ahmad in his Musnad (no. 6510)(2/162)
            with an authentic chain of narrators. It is also
            related by Abu Daawood and al-Haakim and other than
            them in meaning.

            [3] Related in Fathul Baaree (1/46) and others.

            [4] See Fathul Baaree (3/459).

            [5] Shaykh al-Albaanee has declared it to be an
            authentic concurrent hadeeth, he records 63 different
            routes for it. See: Mukhtasar Saheeh Muslim (no.
            1861-1862), Rawdhun Nadheer (no. 707), and Saheehul
            Jaami' (no. 6519).

            [6] Related by Abu Dardaa', reported by Ahmad, Muslim,
            and Ibn Maajah. Shaykh al-Albaanee has declared it
            authentic in Saheehul Jaami' (no. 6199), and from
            Samoorah and Mugheerah (no. 1863), also see
            ad-Da'eefah (1/12).




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          • Abdullah al-Kidd
            Al Haafidh Ibn Katheer said: [1] Indeed it is mentioned in Saheeh Muslim from Abee Sa eed al-Khudree in marfoo [2] form, Whoever writes from me something
            Message 5 of 25 , May 1, 2002
              Al Haafidh Ibn Katheer said: [1]

              Indeed it is mentioned in Saheeh Muslim from Abee
              Sa'eed al-Khudree in marfoo' [2] form, 'Whoever writes
              from me something other than the Qur`aan, then let him
              erase it.'

              Ibnus Salaah said, 'And from what has been narrated to
              us about it is that it was disliked by: 'Umar, and Ibn
              Mas'ood, and Zayd Ibn Thaabit, and Abu Moosaa, and Abu
              Sa'eed in a group of late comers from the Companions,
              and the following generation.'

              He also said, 'And from what has been reported to us
              regarding the permissibility of that or doing it:
              'Alee, and his son al-Hasan, and Anas, and 'Abdullaah
              Ibn 'Umar Ibnul 'Aas in a group from amongst the
              Companions and the following generation.'

              I say, that it has been established in the two Saheehs
              that the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
              sallam) said, 'Write for Abee Shaah.' And indeed we
              clarified this topic in the introductions of our first
              books. And for Allaah is the praise.

              Al Bayhaqee and Ibnus Salaah and more than one other
              than them have said: Perhaps the prohibition of that
              was for when it was feared that it would get mixed in
              with the Qur`aan, and then afterwards it was secured
              from that. And Allaah knows best.

              Indeed it was related from the scholars of later times
              that they agreed upon the permissibility of writing
              the hadeeths, and this matter is exhaustive,
              widespread, and well known, without disapproval.



              Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir said:

              The older Companions differed about the writing of
              hadeeths. Some of them disliked it because of the
              hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed al-Khudree, that the Messenger
              of Allaah said, "Do not write from me anything except
              the Qur`aan, and whoever writes from me something
              other than the Qur`aan, then let him erase it."
              Related by Muslim in his Saheeh, and by Ibn Sa'ad
              (6/63) from 'Ubaydah as-Salmaanee from the older
              taabi'een,[3] and verily the times of ignorance were
              realized after being written and erased. Most of the
              Companions were upon permitting the writing, and this
              is the correct statement. And indeed the scholars have
              answered the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed with many answers.
              So some of them state that the hadeeth is mawqoof[4]
              on him, and this is not good, for verily the hadeeth
              is authentic. And they have answered with other than
              this, saying that the prohibition was only for writing
              the hadeeths with the Qur`aan on one piece of paper,
              fearing that the two would get mixed up by one who was
              not knowledgeable about the beginning of Islaam.

              And other late comers answered that the prohibition
              from that was particular to the one who was reliable
              in memorizing it. It was feared that he would rely on
              the writing, but if one is not reliable in
              memorization, then he should write. Indeed none of
              these answers are decisive.



              The Correct Answer:

              The prohibition was abrogated by other hadeeths
              showing it's permissibility.

              So indeed Bukhaaree, and Muslim relate that
              circumstances required Abee Shaah to have something
              written from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu
              'alayhi wa sallam), which he heard in his sermon. This
              was in the year of the victory over Makkah. So he
              (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "Write for Abee
              Shaah."

              Abu Daawood, and al-Haakim and other than these two
              relate from 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar Ibnul 'Aas who said,
              "I said, 'O Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi
              wa sallam), verily I heard something from you, so can
              I write it?' He said, 'Yes.' I said, 'In happiness and
              anger?' He said, 'Yes, for verily I do not speak in
              these two except truth.'"

              Bukhaaree related from Abee Hurayrah that he said, "No
              one from among the Companions of the Messenger of
              Allaah Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had more
              hadeeths than me, except for 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar.
              Verily he used to write, and I did not write."

              Tirmidthee related from Abee Hurayrah that he said, "A
              man from the Ansaar was sitting with the Messenger of
              Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he heard a
              hadeeth from him, and it amazed him, but he could not
              memorize it. So he complained to the Messenger of
              Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he
              (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, 'Use your right
              hand.' And he signaled with his hand to writing."

              These hadeeths, along with the affirmation of this
              action by the majority of the Companions, and the
              second generation, then the agreement of the Ummah
              after that upon it's permissibility - all of this
              proves that the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed is abrogated,
              and that was the beginning of the matter when it was
              feared that it would distract them from the Qur`aan,
              and when it was feared that other than the Qur`aan
              would become mixed up with the Qur`aan. And in the
              Musnad (no. 7276) and in the Tabaqaat of Ibn Sa'ad
              (5/209) is what proves that a hadeeth was written for
              a lame man by them, and he read from it.

              And the hadeeth of Abee Shaah came in the last stages
              of the life of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
              sallam), and like that were the narrations of Abee
              Hurayrah. And it was in Islaam's later stages that
              'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar used to write, and he (Abu
              Hurayrah) did not write, proving that 'Abdullaah Ibn
              'Umar used to write after Abee Hurayrah came to
              Islaam. If the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed of prohibition
              was after these hadeeths of permission and
              permissibility, then that would have been known by the
              Companions with unadulterated faith. Instead, there
              came the decisive agreement of the whole Ummah after
              the conclusive proof that the permission of the matter
              was in later times. It is an agreement affirmed by
              many recurrent actions from every group from amongst
              the Ummah after the first period. May Allaah have
              mercy upon them all.

              Indeed Ibnus Salaah said: "Then all that differing
              ceased, and all the Muslims agreed upon writing that
              being permissible, and were it not for writing them in
              the books for the lessons..." And indeed he spoke the
              truth. May Allaah have mercy upon him.

              And from what proves that the writing of hadeeths has
              preceded from the older times of the Companions is
              what is found in Tahdheeb (1/470) in the biography of
              Basheer Ibn Nuhayk. Yahyaa Ibnul Qattaan said: "From
              Imraan Ibn Hadheer: From Abee Majliz: From Basheer Ibn
              Nuhayk who said: I came to Abee Hurayrah with my book
              which I used to write in. So I read to him from it and
              I said: I heard this from you. He said: Yes." And this
              text is also related by Tirmidthee (4/396), and by
              al-Khateeb in al-Kifaayah (no. 283), and Ibn Sa'ad
              (7/1/no. 162)



              Footnotes:

              [1] The above is taken from al-Baa'ithul Hatheeth
              Sharh Ikhtisaar 'Uloomul Hadeeth p. 129-130.

              [2] "marfoo'" This comes from the Arabic root word,
              'rafa'a', which means: to be raised, or to raise.
              Marfoo' means something which is raised, in this case
              - a marfoo' narration is one that stops at a Companion
              in the chain of narration, but the text is such that
              none other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
              sallam) could have spoken it. It is used when the
              Companion does not state that he heard the narration
              from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), as
              is the case here.

              [3] "taabi'een" This comes from the Arabic root word,
              'taba'a' which means 'to follow.' The singular version
              of taabi'een is taabi'ee, which is a person from the
              second generation of Muslims.

              [4] "mawqoof" This comes from the Arabic root 'waqafa'
              which means "suspended", technically - what is
              attributed to the Companions. It is also used for
              other than the Companions if restricted, e.g. mawqoof
              from az-Zuhree.

              Some of the scholars have stated that this hadeeth by
              Abu Sa'eed al-Khudree was not a hadeeth at all, rather
              it was his own opinion. Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir counters
              this argument by saying that it is authentic, meaning
              that it is a statements which could not have been said
              by other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
              sallam) because it contains instruction about the
              preservation of Islaam.



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            • ni_70
              by Mary C. Ali Why do Muslim women have to cover their heads? This question is one which is asked by Muslim and non-Muslim alike. For many women it is the
              Message 6 of 25 , May 1, 2002
                by Mary C. Ali

                "Why do Muslim women have to cover their heads?" This question is one
                which is asked by Muslim and non-Muslim alike. For many women it is
                the truest test of being a Muslim.

                The answer to the question is very simple - Muslim women observe
                HIJAB (covering the head and the body) because Allah has told them to
                do so.

                "O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to
                draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among
                men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims)
                and not annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)

                Other secondary reasons include the requirement for modesty in both
                men and women. Both will then be evaluated for intelligence and
                skills instead of looks and sexuality. An Iranian school girl is
                quoted as saying, "We want to stop men from treating us like sex
                objects, as they have always done. We want them to ignore our
                appearance and to be attentive to our personalities and mind. We want
                them to take us seriously and treat us as equals and not just chase
                us around for our bodies and physical looks." A Muslim woman who
                covers her head is making a statement about her identity. Anyone who
                sees her will know that she is a Muslim and has a good moral
                character. Many Muslim women who cover are filled with dignity and
                self esteem; they are pleased to be identified as a Muslim woman. As
                a chaste, modest, pure woman, she does not want her sexuality to
                enter into interactions with men in the smallest degree. A woman who
                covers herself is concealing her sexuality but allowing her
                femininity to be brought out.

                The question of hijab for Muslim women has been a controversy for
                centuries and will probably continue for many more. Some learned
                people do not consider the subject open to discussion and consider
                that covering the face is required, while a majority are of the
                opinion that it is not required. A middle line position is taken by
                some who claim that the instructions are vague and open to individual
                discretion depending on the situation. The wives of the Prophet (S)
                were required to cover their faces so that men would not think of
                them in sexual terms since they were the "Mothers of the Believers,"
                but this requirement was not extended to other women.

                The word "hijab" comes from the Arabic word "hajaba" meaning to hide
                from view or conceal. In the present time, the context of hijab is
                the modest covering of a Muslim woman. The question now is what is
                the extent of the covering? The Qur'an says:


                "Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard
                their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah
                is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing
                women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and
                that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what
                must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils
                over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their
                husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)

                These verses from the Qur'an contain two main injunctions:

                A woman should not show her beauty or adornments except what appears
                by uncontrolled factors such as the wind blowing her clothes, and
                the head covers should be drawn so as to cover the hair, the neck and
                the bosom.

                Islam has no fixed standard as to the style of dress or type of
                clothing that Muslims must wear. However, some requirements must be
                met. The first of these requirements is the parts of the body which
                must be covered. Islam has two sources for guidance and rulings:
                first, the Qur'an, the revealed word of Allah and secondly, the
                Hadith or the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (S) who was chosen
                by Allah to be the role model for mankind. The following is a
                Tradition of the Prophet:"Ayesha (R) reported that Asmaa the daughter
                of Abu Bakr (R) came to the Messenger of Allah (S) while wearing thin
                clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asmaa! When a girl reaches
                the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain
                exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." (Abu
                Dawood)

                The second requirement is looseness. The clothing must be loose
                enough so as not to describe the shape of the woman's body. One
                desirable way to hide the shape of the body is to wear a cloak over
                other clothes. However, if the clothing is loose enough, an outer
                garment is not necessary. Thickness is the third requirement. The
                clothing must be thick enough so as not to show the color of the skin
                it covers or the shape of the body. The Prophet Muhammad (S) stated
                that in later generations of his ummah there would be "women who
                would be dressed but naked and on top of their heads (what looks
                like) camel humps. Curse them for they are truly cursed." (Muslim)
                Another requirement is an over-all dignified appearance. The clothing
                should not attract men's attention to the woman. It should not be
                shiny and flashy so that everyone notices the dress and the woman. In
                addition there are other requirements:

                Women must not dress so as to appear as men.
                "Ibn Abbas narrated: 'The Prophet (S) cursed the men who appear like
                women and the women who appear like men.'" (Bukhari)

                Women should not dress in a way similar to the unbelievers.
                The clothing should be modest, not excessively fancy and also not
                excessively ragged to gain others admiration or sympathy.

                Often forgotten is the fact that modern Western dress is a new
                invention. Looking at the clothing of women as recently as seventy
                years ago, we see clothing similar to hijab. These active and hard-
                working women of the West were not inhibited by their clothing which
                consisted of long, full dresses and various types of head covering.
                Muslim women who wear hijab do not find it impractical or interfering
                with their activities in all levels and walks of life. Hijab is not
                merely a covering dress but more importantly, it is behavior,
                manners, speech and appearance in public. Dress is only one facet of
                the total being. The basic requirement of the Muslim woman's dress
                apply to the Muslim man's clothing with the difference being mainly
                in degree. Modesty requires that the area between the navel and the
                knee be covered in front of all people except the wife. The clothing
                of men should not be like the dress of women, nor should it be tight
                or provocative. A Muslim should dress to show his identity as a
                Muslim.

                For both men and women, clothing requirements are not meant to be a
                restriction but rather a way in which society will function in a
                proper, Islamic manner.
              • munir ulhaq
                The author is only struggling to rationalize to break the prohibition of hadiths imposed by the prophet and followed by his companions and all Muslims for two
                Message 7 of 25 , May 1, 2002
                  The author is only struggling to rationalize to break the prohibition of hadiths imposed by the prophet and followed by his companions and all Muslims for two hundred years after his death. If it is alleged that the prophet contradicted his prohibition and instead "ordered" to write hadiths then the single most important questions would be : Why would the prophet himself not have any hadith books written or even his closest companions (even Abu huraira for that matter) ever write such hadiths or even Muslims or scholars of Islam would write any hadiths??? What stopped Muslims for two hundred years????
                  The one great misconception we have about the word "hadith" is that it means something the prophet said or handed down to us. This is plain ignorance of history and propoganda by the enemies of Islam. The word hadith literally means "a story". Hadith un nabi is merely a story about the prophet told by one single individual in the predominant cases. Such stories were written down hundreds of years after the prophet.
                  The most fact to remember related to hadith is that not a single Muslim esp. those in Arabia nor even the companions of the prophet ever write any such stories about the prophet. Clearly they definitely would have written hadiths/stories about him unless the prophet had prohibited it. To support this, we do found significant records in history of such an explicit prohibition by the prophet.

                  The prophet did not hand us down these stories/hadiths and actually prohibited the writing of such stories because no Muslim had the courage to write any such story for at least two centuries until some Iranian individuals from outside Hijaz broke the prohibition and wrote those stories with a supposed singular historical chain spanning over the previous two centuries. Thus, we are getting the hadiths/stories from a few Persian writers who never met the prophet nor even his companions and NOT the prophet of Islam nor even his companions not even any Muslims for the first two hundred years but from foreigners outside the land of the prophet who disobeyed the prophet by writing stories told by at most one individual each.
                  The following is a brief description of the origin and timeline of these third century individuals :
                  Abu Isa Muhammad Trimzi : From Trimz in Iran. Born in hijra 209. Died in hijra 279.

                  Abu Dawood: From Seestan in Iran. Born in hijra 202. Died in hijra 275.

                  Muslim bin Hajaj : From Nishapur in Iran. Born in hijra 204. Died in hijra 261.
                  Muhammad ibn Ismail Bukhari: Born in Bokhara in hijra 194 / 810 A.D ; Died in Samarkand in 256 AH/870 A.D.

                  Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Zaid ibne Maja : From northern Iranian city Kazdin. Born in hijra 209. Died in hijra 273.

                  Abdur Rahman Nisaayee : From Nisa in Iran's eastern province of Khorasan. Died in hijra 303.

                  Notice that none of these individuals were from the Hijaz or even from Arab regions. What was wrong with scholars from Hijaz or Baghdad or Kufa or Basra or Damascus? What prevented them from writing hadiths? Why did they never create any such hadith books? It is obvious that they would have if they were permitted to do it. In Iran, where people were not so scrupulous and the law was not adhered to it properly in the remote areas of the empire. Therefore, a few individuals in Iran disobeyed the prophet and ascribed stories to him. Gradually, this fabrication/bidaa became a hadith-mania that struck other parts of the ummah.

                  We do not obey the prophet when we obey a hadith that we hear about him since the prophet died without handing us any hadith himself. Furthermore, we disobey the prophet if we follow a hadith/story about him since it is quite evident historically that the prophet had prohibited documenting any hadiths/stories about him. What the prophet handed us down himself as his teachings was the Quran and only the Quran and that is what he kept instructing the community before his demise. So if any one wants to follow him must follow the Quran and whoever might want to disobey the prophet would follow a hadith.

                  BTW, all Islamic mandates are completely and fully preserved in the Quran. This includes the prayers that were prescribed in the revelations of the Quran and are fully documented in it as well.

                  Abdullah al-Kidd <abujilani@...> wrote: Al Haafidh Ibn Katheer said: [1]

                  Indeed it is mentioned in Saheeh Muslim from Abee
                  Sa'eed al-Khudree in marfoo' [2] form, 'Whoever writes
                  from me something other than the Qur`aan, then let him
                  erase it.'

                  Ibnus Salaah said, 'And from what has been narrated to
                  us about it is that it was disliked by: 'Umar, and Ibn
                  Mas'ood, and Zayd Ibn Thaabit, and Abu Moosaa, and Abu
                  Sa'eed in a group of late comers from the Companions,
                  and the following generation.'

                  He also said, 'And from what has been reported to us
                  regarding the permissibility of that or doing it:
                  'Alee, and his son al-Hasan, and Anas, and 'Abdullaah
                  Ibn 'Umar Ibnul 'Aas in a group from amongst the
                  Companions and the following generation.'

                  I say, that it has been established in the two Saheehs
                  that the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
                  sallam) said, 'Write for Abee Shaah.' And indeed we
                  clarified this topic in the introductions of our first
                  books. And for Allaah is the praise.

                  Al Bayhaqee and Ibnus Salaah and more than one other
                  than them have said: Perhaps the prohibition of that
                  was for when it was feared that it would get mixed in
                  with the Qur`aan, and then afterwards it was secured
                  from that. And Allaah knows best.

                  Indeed it was related from the scholars of later times
                  that they agreed upon the permissibility of writing
                  the hadeeths, and this matter is exhaustive,
                  widespread, and well known, without disapproval.



                  Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir said:

                  The older Companions differed about the writing of
                  hadeeths. Some of them disliked it because of the
                  hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed al-Khudree, that the Messenger
                  of Allaah said, "Do not write from me anything except
                  the Qur`aan, and whoever writes from me something
                  other than the Qur`aan, then let him erase it."
                  Related by Muslim in his Saheeh, and by Ibn Sa'ad
                  (6/63) from 'Ubaydah as-Salmaanee from the older
                  taabi'een,[3] and verily the times of ignorance were
                  realized after being written and erased. Most of the
                  Companions were upon permitting the writing, and this
                  is the correct statement. And indeed the scholars have
                  answered the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed with many answers.
                  So some of them state that the hadeeth is mawqoof[4]
                  on him, and this is not good, for verily the hadeeth
                  is authentic. And they have answered with other than
                  this, saying that the prohibition was only for writing
                  the hadeeths with the Qur`aan on one piece of paper,
                  fearing that the two would get mixed up by one who was
                  not knowledgeable about the beginning of Islaam.

                  And other late comers answered that the prohibition
                  from that was particular to the one who was reliable
                  in memorizing it. It was feared that he would rely on
                  the writing, but if one is not reliable in
                  memorization, then he should write. Indeed none of
                  these answers are decisive.



                  The Correct Answer:

                  The prohibition was abrogated by other hadeeths
                  showing it's permissibility.

                  So indeed Bukhaaree, and Muslim relate that
                  circumstances required Abee Shaah to have something
                  written from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu
                  'alayhi wa sallam), which he heard in his sermon. This
                  was in the year of the victory over Makkah. So he
                  (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "Write for Abee
                  Shaah."

                  Abu Daawood, and al-Haakim and other than these two
                  relate from 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar Ibnul 'Aas who said,
                  "I said, 'O Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi
                  wa sallam), verily I heard something from you, so can
                  I write it?' He said, 'Yes.' I said, 'In happiness and
                  anger?' He said, 'Yes, for verily I do not speak in
                  these two except truth.'"

                  Bukhaaree related from Abee Hurayrah that he said, "No
                  one from among the Companions of the Messenger of
                  Allaah Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had more
                  hadeeths than me, except for 'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar.
                  Verily he used to write, and I did not write."

                  Tirmidthee related from Abee Hurayrah that he said, "A
                  man from the Ansaar was sitting with the Messenger of
                  Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he heard a
                  hadeeth from him, and it amazed him, but he could not
                  memorize it. So he complained to the Messenger of
                  Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he
                  (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, 'Use your right
                  hand.' And he signaled with his hand to writing."

                  These hadeeths, along with the affirmation of this
                  action by the majority of the Companions, and the
                  second generation, then the agreement of the Ummah
                  after that upon it's permissibility - all of this
                  proves that the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed is abrogated,
                  and that was the beginning of the matter when it was
                  feared that it would distract them from the Qur`aan,
                  and when it was feared that other than the Qur`aan
                  would become mixed up with the Qur`aan. And in the
                  Musnad (no. 7276) and in the Tabaqaat of Ibn Sa'ad
                  (5/209) is what proves that a hadeeth was written for
                  a lame man by them, and he read from it.

                  And the hadeeth of Abee Shaah came in the last stages
                  of the life of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
                  sallam), and like that were the narrations of Abee
                  Hurayrah. And it was in Islaam's later stages that
                  'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar used to write, and he (Abu
                  Hurayrah) did not write, proving that 'Abdullaah Ibn
                  'Umar used to write after Abee Hurayrah came to
                  Islaam. If the hadeeth of Abee Sa'eed of prohibition
                  was after these hadeeths of permission and
                  permissibility, then that would have been known by the
                  Companions with unadulterated faith. Instead, there
                  came the decisive agreement of the whole Ummah after
                  the conclusive proof that the permission of the matter
                  was in later times. It is an agreement affirmed by
                  many recurrent actions from every group from amongst
                  the Ummah after the first period. May Allaah have
                  mercy upon them all.

                  Indeed Ibnus Salaah said: "Then all that differing
                  ceased, and all the Muslims agreed upon writing that
                  being permissible, and were it not for writing them in
                  the books for the lessons..." And indeed he spoke the
                  truth. May Allaah have mercy upon him.

                  And from what proves that the writing of hadeeths has
                  preceded from the older times of the Companions is
                  what is found in Tahdheeb (1/470) in the biography of
                  Basheer Ibn Nuhayk. Yahyaa Ibnul Qattaan said: "From
                  Imraan Ibn Hadheer: From Abee Majliz: From Basheer Ibn
                  Nuhayk who said: I came to Abee Hurayrah with my book
                  which I used to write in. So I read to him from it and
                  I said: I heard this from you. He said: Yes." And this
                  text is also related by Tirmidthee (4/396), and by
                  al-Khateeb in al-Kifaayah (no. 283), and Ibn Sa'ad
                  (7/1/no. 162)



                  Footnotes:

                  [1] The above is taken from al-Baa'ithul Hatheeth
                  Sharh Ikhtisaar 'Uloomul Hadeeth p. 129-130.

                  [2] "marfoo'" This comes from the Arabic root word,
                  'rafa'a', which means: to be raised, or to raise.
                  Marfoo' means something which is raised, in this case
                  - a marfoo' narration is one that stops at a Companion
                  in the chain of narration, but the text is such that
                  none other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
                  sallam) could have spoken it. It is used when the
                  Companion does not state that he heard the narration
                  from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), as
                  is the case here.

                  [3] "taabi'een" This comes from the Arabic root word,
                  'taba'a' which means 'to follow.' The singular version
                  of taabi'een is taabi'ee, which is a person from the
                  second generation of Muslims.

                  [4] "mawqoof" This comes from the Arabic root 'waqafa'
                  which means "suspended", technically - what is
                  attributed to the Companions. It is also used for
                  other than the Companions if restricted, e.g. mawqoof
                  from az-Zuhree.

                  Some of the scholars have stated that this hadeeth by
                  Abu Sa'eed al-Khudree was not a hadeeth at all, rather
                  it was his own opinion. Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir counters
                  this argument by saying that it is authentic, meaning
                  that it is a statements which could not have been said
                  by other than the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa
                  sallam) because it contains instruction about the
                  preservation of Islaam.



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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Abdullah al-Kidd
                  As salaam alaikum Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah May Allah forgive you for using the word struggling ...these are the correct words of a
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 1, 2002
                    As salaam alaikum

                    Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah

                    May Allah forgive you for using the word
                    "struggling"...these are the correct words of a
                    Scholar in Hadith. You should not just make loose
                    canon claims that can not be substantiated. Bring
                    your proof for these claims. Be careful because
                    denying the Sunnah is "Ridda".
                    --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > The author is only struggling to rationalize to
                    > break the prohibition of hadiths imposed by the
                    > prophet and followed by his companions and all
                    > Muslims for two hundred years after his death. If it
                    > is alleged that the prophet contradicted his
                    > prohibition and instead "ordered" to write hadiths
                    > then the single most important questions would be :
                    > Why would the prophet himself not have any hadith
                    > books written or even his closest companions (even
                    > Abu huraira for that matter) ever write such hadiths
                    > or even Muslims or scholars of Islam would write any
                    > hadiths??? What stopped Muslims for two hundred
                    > years????
                    > The one great misconception we have about the word
                    > "hadith" is that it means something the prophet said
                    > or handed down to us. This is plain ignorance of
                    > history and propoganda by the enemies of Islam. The
                    > word hadith literally means "a story". Hadith un
                    > nabi is merely a story about the prophet told by one
                    > single individual in the predominant cases. Such
                    > stories were written down hundreds of years after
                    > the prophet.
                    > The most fact to remember related to hadith is that
                    > not a single Muslim esp. those in Arabia nor even
                    > the companions of the prophet ever write any such
                    > stories about the prophet. Clearly they definitely
                    > would have written hadiths/stories about him unless
                    > the prophet had prohibited it. To support this, we
                    > do found significant records in history of such an
                    > explicit prohibition by the prophet.
                    >
                    > The prophet did not hand us down these
                    > stories/hadiths and actually prohibited the writing
                    > of such stories because no Muslim had the courage to
                    > write any such story for at least two centuries
                    > until some Iranian individuals from outside Hijaz
                    > broke the prohibition and wrote those stories with a
                    > supposed singular historical chain spanning over the
                    > previous two centuries. Thus, we are getting the
                    > hadiths/stories from a few Persian writers who never
                    > met the prophet nor even his companions and NOT the
                    > prophet of Islam nor even his companions not even
                    > any Muslims for the first two hundred years but from
                    > foreigners outside the land of the prophet who
                    > disobeyed the prophet by writing stories told by at
                    > most one individual each.
                    > The following is a brief description of the origin
                    > and timeline of these third century individuals :
                    > Abu Isa Muhammad Trimzi : From Trimz in Iran. Born
                    > in hijra 209. Died in hijra 279.
                    >
                    > Abu Dawood: From Seestan in Iran. Born in hijra 202.
                    > Died in hijra 275.
                    >
                    > Muslim bin Hajaj : From Nishapur in Iran. Born in
                    > hijra 204. Died in hijra 261.
                    > Muhammad ibn Ismail Bukhari: Born in Bokhara in
                    > hijra 194 / 810 A.D ; Died in Samarkand in 256
                    > AH/870 A.D.
                    >
                    > Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Zaid ibne Maja : From
                    > northern Iranian city Kazdin. Born in hijra 209.
                    > Died in hijra 273.
                    >
                    > Abdur Rahman Nisaayee : From Nisa in Iran's eastern
                    > province of Khorasan. Died in hijra 303.
                    >
                    > Notice that none of these individuals were from the
                    > Hijaz or even from Arab regions. What was wrong with
                    > scholars from Hijaz or Baghdad or Kufa or Basra or
                    > Damascus? What prevented them from writing hadiths?
                    > Why did they never create any such hadith books? It
                    > is obvious that they would have if they were
                    > permitted to do it. In Iran, where people were not
                    > so scrupulous and the law was not adhered to it
                    > properly in the remote areas of the empire.
                    > Therefore, a few individuals in Iran disobeyed the
                    > prophet and ascribed stories to him. Gradually, this
                    > fabrication/bidaa became a hadith-mania that struck
                    > other parts of the ummah.
                    >
                    > We do not obey the prophet when we obey a hadith
                    > that we hear about him since the prophet died
                    > without handing us any hadith himself. Furthermore,
                    > we disobey the prophet if we follow a hadith/story
                    > about him since it is quite evident historically
                    > that the prophet had prohibited documenting any
                    > hadiths/stories about him. What the prophet handed
                    > us down himself as his teachings was the Quran and
                    > only the Quran and that is what he kept instructing
                    > the community before his demise. So if any one wants
                    > to follow him must follow the Quran and whoever
                    > might want to disobey the prophet would follow a
                    > hadith.
                    >
                    > BTW, all Islamic mandates are completely and fully
                    > preserved in the Quran. This includes the prayers
                    > that were prescribed in the revelations of the Quran
                    > and are fully documented in it as well.
                    >



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                  • munir ulhaq
                    Assalamualakum, I respect this scholar however everyone is a human being and prone to error and hence criticizable. I already gave you the proofs from
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 1, 2002
                      Assalamualakum,
                      I respect this scholar however everyone is a human being and prone to error and hence criticizable.
                      I already gave you the proofs from universal historical facts about the history of hadith writing. You can confirm it from anyone who has read Muslim history. Even the most blind followers of hadiths will not dispute these facts. Then, see what you make of these historical facts.
                      Regards,
                      Abdullah al-Kidd <abujilani@...> wrote: As salaam alaikum

                      Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah

                      May Allah forgive you for using the word
                      "struggling"...these are the correct words of a
                      Scholar in Hadith. You should not just make loose
                      canon claims that can not be substantiated. Bring
                      your proof for these claims. Be careful because
                      denying the Sunnah is "Ridda".
                      --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > The author is only struggling to rationalize to
                      > break the prohibition of hadiths imposed by the
                      > prophet and followed by his companions and all
                      > Muslims for two hundred years after his death. If it
                      > is alleged that the prophet contradicted his
                      > prohibition and instead "ordered" to write hadiths
                      > then the single most important questions would be :
                      > Why would the prophet himself not have any hadith
                      > books written or even his closest companions (even
                      > Abu huraira for that matter) ever write such hadiths
                      > or even Muslims or scholars of Islam would write any
                      > hadiths??? What stopped Muslims for two hundred
                      > years????
                      > The one great misconception we have about the word
                      > "hadith" is that it means something the prophet said
                      > or handed down to us. This is plain ignorance of
                      > history and propoganda by the enemies of Islam. The
                      > word hadith literally means "a story". Hadith un
                      > nabi is merely a story about the prophet told by one
                      > single individual in the predominant cases. Such
                      > stories were written down hundreds of years after
                      > the prophet.
                      > The most fact to remember related to hadith is that
                      > not a single Muslim esp. those in Arabia nor even
                      > the companions of the prophet ever write any such
                      > stories about the prophet. Clearly they definitely
                      > would have written hadiths/stories about him unless
                      > the prophet had prohibited it. To support this, we
                      > do found significant records in history of such an
                      > explicit prohibition by the prophet.
                      >
                      > The prophet did not hand us down these
                      > stories/hadiths and actually prohibited the writing
                      > of such stories because no Muslim had the courage to
                      > write any such story for at least two centuries
                      > until some Iranian individuals from outside Hijaz
                      > broke the prohibition and wrote those stories with a
                      > supposed singular historical chain spanning over the
                      > previous two centuries. Thus, we are getting the
                      > hadiths/stories from a few Persian writers who never
                      > met the prophet nor even his companions and NOT the
                      > prophet of Islam nor even his companions not even
                      > any Muslims for the first two hundred years but from
                      > foreigners outside the land of the prophet who
                      > disobeyed the prophet by writing stories told by at
                      > most one individual each.
                      > The following is a brief description of the origin
                      > and timeline of these third century individuals :
                      > Abu Isa Muhammad Trimzi : From Trimz in Iran. Born
                      > in hijra 209. Died in hijra 279.
                      >
                      > Abu Dawood: From Seestan in Iran. Born in hijra 202.
                      > Died in hijra 275.
                      >
                      > Muslim bin Hajaj : From Nishapur in Iran. Born in
                      > hijra 204. Died in hijra 261.
                      > Muhammad ibn Ismail Bukhari: Born in Bokhara in
                      > hijra 194 / 810 A.D ; Died in Samarkand in 256
                      > AH/870 A.D.
                      >
                      > Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Zaid ibne Maja : From
                      > northern Iranian city Kazdin. Born in hijra 209.
                      > Died in hijra 273.
                      >
                      > Abdur Rahman Nisaayee : From Nisa in Iran's eastern
                      > province of Khorasan. Died in hijra 303.
                      >
                      > Notice that none of these individuals were from the
                      > Hijaz or even from Arab regions. What was wrong with
                      > scholars from Hijaz or Baghdad or Kufa or Basra or
                      > Damascus? What prevented them from writing hadiths?
                      > Why did they never create any such hadith books? It
                      > is obvious that they would have if they were
                      > permitted to do it. In Iran, where people were not
                      > so scrupulous and the law was not adhered to it
                      > properly in the remote areas of the empire.
                      > Therefore, a few individuals in Iran disobeyed the
                      > prophet and ascribed stories to him. Gradually, this
                      > fabrication/bidaa became a hadith-mania that struck
                      > other parts of the ummah.
                      >
                      > We do not obey the prophet when we obey a hadith
                      > that we hear about him since the prophet died
                      > without handing us any hadith himself. Furthermore,
                      > we disobey the prophet if we follow a hadith/story
                      > about him since it is quite evident historically
                      > that the prophet had prohibited documenting any
                      > hadiths/stories about him. What the prophet handed
                      > us down himself as his teachings was the Quran and
                      > only the Quran and that is what he kept instructing
                      > the community before his demise. So if any one wants
                      > to follow him must follow the Quran and whoever
                      > might want to disobey the prophet would follow a
                      > hadith.
                      >
                      > BTW, all Islamic mandates are completely and fully
                      > preserved in the Quran. This includes the prayers
                      > that were prescribed in the revelations of the Quran
                      > and are fully documented in it as well.
                      >



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                    • munir ulhaq
                      The actual verse of Surah Noor translation by YA as : 30. Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 1, 2002
                        The actual verse of Surah Noor translation by YA as :
                        30. Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.
                        31. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

                        The word khumr is translated as a "veil". Actually it means any cloth used to cover. Its verb is khmr (to cover) Translating it as "veil" or facecovering contradicts the sentence. If the order is to cover the bosoms, which it is in the verse, it would not be done by a veil since a veil covers the face/head not the chest. The order is "to place their covers on their bosoms". The pagan Arab women had the custom to place their covers in such a way that they would reveal their breasts and hence this order to encourage a proper covering of the chest ... which is the zinat of a woman, mentioned in the same verse.

                        Regards,

                        Abdullah al-Kidd <abujilani@...> wrote: Wa alaikum salaam

                        The word Khimaar is used in the Qur'an...What does it
                        mean? What the did the scholars of Tafseer say about
                        this word? What is the apparent meaning of the word
                        in Arabic?


                        --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Assalamoalakum,
                        > Please do let us know where the word headcovering is
                        > used in the Quran since in the other mail it does
                        > not say so. I am well aware of Arabic and hence am
                        > not aware of any such requirement in the Quran. To
                        > say that it is when it is not, is a pure
                        > fabrication/bidaa.
                        > Regards,
                        > Abdullah al-Kidd <abujilani@...> wrote: As
                        > salaam alaikum
                        >
                        > True indeed that it is a terrible fabrication, but
                        > you
                        > are wrong when you say that it is not mandated in
                        > the
                        > Qur'an. One advise that we should never be tired of
                        > hearing is speaking about Allah, His Books, His
                        > Messenger, etc. without knowledge. We should be
                        > soooo
                        > afraid of saying what is Halal and what is Haraam;
                        > what is in the Qur'an and what is in the Sunnah.
                        > When
                        > we do this without knowledge we have made big sin;
                        > we
                        > have lied against Allah and/or His Messenger (SAWS).
                        >
                        > Your statement suggests that you have not read the
                        > Qur'an or that you don't understand the Arabic
                        > language or that you are speaking without knowledge.
                        >
                        > It is clear from the understanding of the Sahabah
                        > and
                        > Sahabiaat, the Mothers of the Believers, and those
                        > who
                        > followed them that HIJAB is mentioned in the Qur'an
                        > and an order from our Lord. Insha'allah, I will
                        > post
                        > something which covers this subject. We must fear
                        > Allah and adhere to that which His Last and Final
                        > Messenger Muhammad (SAWS) brought and follow the
                        > understanding of our pious predecessors.
                        >
                        > your brother in Islam
                        >
                        > Abdullah
                        > --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > This is really a terrible fabrication to say that
                        > > any woman who does not wear a headcovering will go
                        > > to hell. This is falsely attributed to Islam as
                        > even
                        > > a headcovering is not mandated in the Quran which
                        > is
                        > > the only Book of Islam and the teaching of the
                        > > prophet.
                        > > Regards,
                        > > wife momma
                        > > <honeydrawsbeesbetterthanvinegar@...> wrote:
                        > > Will a woman who does not wear hijaab go to Hell?
                        > > You can access the answer by pointing your
                        > internet
                        > > browser to the
                        > > link:
                        > >
                        >
                        http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=7436
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Need to save money on health or legal services?
                        > > Tired of dealing with insurance companies? Visit
                        > > www.procardinternational.com. Click on "Consumers"
                        > > tab
                        > > Enter in sponsor code (AALIAS7364)
                        > >
                        > > Want to work from home? No startup kit or
                        > financial
                        > > investment to make. Get free leads and long
                        > > distance. Reply back with FULL first name, first
                        > > initial of last name,
                        > > and an email an email address. That's it! I look
                        > > forward to hearing from you real soon.
                        > >
                        > >
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                        > var
                        >
                        lrec_URL="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=225940.2028952.3504245.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705076179:HM/A=1061772/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://www.fullaccessmedical.com/t/7428/211/2458684356";var
                        >
                        lrec_flashfile="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/misc/fam_lrec_groupsmail_0429b.swf";var
                        >
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                        >
                        lrec_altimg="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/misc/fam_lrec_groupsmail_0429.gif";var
                        > lrec_width=300;var lrec_height=250;on error resume
                        > nextSub banner_click_lrec_FSCommand(ByVal command,
                        > ByVal args)call
                        > banner_click_lrec_DoFSCommand(command, args)end sub
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > embracingislam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                      • Abdullah al-Kidd
                        Historical facts from what books. Your not quote from history...your quoting from His-Story. Your claim is a lie...In fact, reading Islamic history books
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 1, 2002
                          Historical facts from what books. Your not quote from
                          history...your quoting from His-Story. Your claim is
                          a lie...In fact, reading Islamic history books such as
                          Ibn Kathir and others will refute what you are saying.
                          What books did you get this information from and who
                          are their authors?


                          --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Assalamualakum,
                          > I respect this scholar however everyone is a human
                          > being and prone to error and hence criticizable.
                          > I already gave you the proofs from universal
                          > historical facts about the history of hadith
                          > writing. You can confirm it from anyone who has read
                          > Muslim history. Even the most blind followers of
                          > hadiths will not dispute these facts. Then, see what
                          > you make of these historical facts.
                          > Regards,
                          > Abdullah al-Kidd <abujilani@...> wrote: As
                          > salaam alaikum
                          >
                          > Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah
                          >
                          > May Allah forgive you for using the word
                          > "struggling"...these are the correct words of a
                          > Scholar in Hadith. You should not just make loose
                          > canon claims that can not be substantiated. Bring
                          > your proof for these claims. Be careful because
                          > denying the Sunnah is "Ridda".
                          > --- munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The author is only struggling to rationalize to
                          > > break the prohibition of hadiths imposed by the
                          > > prophet and followed by his companions and all
                          > > Muslims for two hundred years after his death. If
                          > it
                          > > is alleged that the prophet contradicted his
                          > > prohibition and instead "ordered" to write hadiths
                          > > then the single most important questions would be
                          > :
                          > > Why would the prophet himself not have any hadith
                          > > books written or even his closest companions (even
                          > > Abu huraira for that matter) ever write such
                          > hadiths
                          > > or even Muslims or scholars of Islam would write
                          > any
                          > > hadiths??? What stopped Muslims for two hundred
                          > > years????
                          > > The one great misconception we have about the word
                          > > "hadith" is that it means something the prophet
                          > said
                          > > or handed down to us. This is plain ignorance of
                          > > history and propoganda by the enemies of Islam.
                          > The
                          > > word hadith literally means "a story". Hadith un
                          > > nabi is merely a story about the prophet told by
                          > one
                          > > single individual in the predominant cases. Such
                          > > stories were written down hundreds of years after
                          > > the prophet.
                          > > The most fact to remember related to hadith is
                          > that
                          > > not a single Muslim esp. those in Arabia nor even
                          > > the companions of the prophet ever write any such
                          > > stories about the prophet. Clearly they definitely
                          > > would have written hadiths/stories about him
                          > unless
                          > > the prophet had prohibited it. To support this, we
                          > > do found significant records in history of such an
                          > > explicit prohibition by the prophet.
                          > >
                          > > The prophet did not hand us down these
                          > > stories/hadiths and actually prohibited the
                          > writing
                          > > of such stories because no Muslim had the courage
                          > to
                          > > write any such story for at least two centuries
                          > > until some Iranian individuals from outside Hijaz
                          > > broke the prohibition and wrote those stories with
                          > a
                          > > supposed singular historical chain spanning over
                          > the
                          > > previous two centuries. Thus, we are getting the
                          > > hadiths/stories from a few Persian writers who
                          > never
                          > > met the prophet nor even his companions and NOT
                          > the
                          > > prophet of Islam nor even his companions not even
                          > > any Muslims for the first two hundred years but
                          > from
                          > > foreigners outside the land of the prophet who
                          > > disobeyed the prophet by writing stories told by
                          > at
                          > > most one individual each.
                          > > The following is a brief description of the origin
                          > > and timeline of these third century individuals :
                          >
                          > > Abu Isa Muhammad Trimzi : From Trimz in Iran. Born
                          > > in hijra 209. Died in hijra 279.
                          > >
                          > > Abu Dawood: From Seestan in Iran. Born in hijra
                          > 202.
                          > > Died in hijra 275.
                          > >
                          > > Muslim bin Hajaj : From Nishapur in Iran. Born in
                          > > hijra 204. Died in hijra 261.
                          > > Muhammad ibn Ismail Bukhari: Born in Bokhara in
                          > > hijra 194 / 810 A.D ; Died in Samarkand in 256
                          > > AH/870 A.D.
                          > >
                          > > Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Zaid ibne Maja : From
                          > > northern Iranian city Kazdin. Born in hijra 209.
                          > > Died in hijra 273.
                          > >
                          > > Abdur Rahman Nisaayee : From Nisa in Iran's
                          > eastern
                          > > province of Khorasan. Died in hijra 303.
                          > >
                          > > Notice that none of these individuals were from
                          > the
                          > > Hijaz or even from Arab regions. What was wrong
                          > with
                          > > scholars from Hijaz or Baghdad or Kufa or Basra or
                          > > Damascus? What prevented them from writing
                          > hadiths?
                          > > Why did they never create any such hadith books?
                          > It
                          > > is obvious that they would have if they were
                          > > permitted to do it. In Iran, where people were not
                          > > so scrupulous and the law was not adhered to it
                          > > properly in the remote areas of the empire.
                          > > Therefore, a few individuals in Iran disobeyed the
                          > > prophet and ascribed stories to him. Gradually,
                          > this
                          > > fabrication/bidaa became a hadith-mania that
                          > struck
                          > > other parts of the ummah.
                          > >
                          > > We do not obey the prophet when we obey a hadith
                          > > that we hear about him since the prophet died
                          > > without handing us any hadith himself.
                          > Furthermore,
                          > > we disobey the prophet if we follow a hadith/story
                          > > about him since it is quite evident historically
                          > > that the prophet had prohibited documenting any
                          > > hadiths/stories about him. What the prophet handed
                          > > us down himself as his teachings was the Quran and
                          > > only the Quran and that is what he kept
                          > instructing
                          > > the community before his demise. So if any one
                          > wants
                          > > to follow him must follow the Quran and whoever
                          > > might want to disobey the prophet would follow a
                          > > hadith.
                          > >
                          > > BTW, all Islamic mandates are completely and fully
                          > > preserved in the Quran. This includes the prayers
                          > > that were prescribed in the revelations of the
                          > Quran
                          > > and are fully documented in it as well.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Abdullah al-Kidd
                          Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah Allahu musta an! Akhi, save us the trouble...if you don t have knowledge or any proof for what you are saying
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 1, 2002
                            Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah

                            Allahu musta'an! Akhi, save us the trouble...if you
                            don't have knowledge or any proof for what you are
                            saying then save us the trouble and don't reply.
                            Again, you are avoiding the issue...as the people of
                            innovation always do...avoid the real issue. Why are
                            you dealing with translations, especially the
                            translation of Yusuf Ali. The scholars of Arabic in
                            Medinah have reviewed his book and have stated that it
                            is not to be used or distributed because of the grave
                            mistakes that it has. Anyway, you can't meticulously
                            analyze this verse without any knowledge of the Arabic
                            language. This is why I questioned you in the last
                            email. The real question is what does Jilbaab mean in
                            Arabic? What does it mean in the verse of Hijab in
                            Suratun Nur? What does Khimaar mean in Arabic? What
                            does it mean in the verse? These are the questions
                            that have to be taken in consideration. As well as
                            what other scholars have stated in relation to these
                            verses.


                            > The word khumr is translated as a "veil". Actually
                            > it means any cloth used to cover.

                            Where is your proof? It does not mean a cloth to
                            cover. You can't stop there. It means a cloth that
                            covers the head. If you studied just a little Arabic
                            then you would know that what you are saying is
                            nothing more than garbage. Anyway, just like the word
                            for Alcohol Khamr. The root word is the same root
                            word for Khimaar, which Khaa maa raa. Because alcohol
                            is something that covers the mind. These are basic
                            rules of Sarf in that most Arabic words originate from
                            3 or 4 root letters.


                            Its verb is khmr
                            > (to cover) Translating it as "veil" or facecovering
                            > contradicts the sentence.

                            This is not the verb khmr is not a verb...the verb "to
                            cover" is yakhmuru. It does not contradict the
                            sentence it confirms the sentence especially if you
                            know what the women where wearing at that time.

                            If the order is to cover
                            > the bosoms, which it is in the verse, it would not
                            > be done by a veil since a veil covers the face/head
                            > not the chest.

                            This is not true because the women and men wore long
                            cloths on their head to protect them from the sun and
                            the sand storms. But Allah subhana'wa'tala ordered
                            the women to dress in a way which define a righteous
                            woman and to protect them from molestation.

                            The order is "to place their covers
                            > on their bosoms". The pagan Arab women had the
                            > custom to place their covers in such a way that they
                            > would reveal their breasts and hence this order to
                            > encourage a proper covering of the chest ... which
                            > is the zinat of a woman, mentioned in the same
                            > verse.
                            >
                            What cover? A cover "khimaar" which is covering the
                            head...Allah says take that cover and draw it over
                            your bosom.

                            __________________________________________________
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                          • munir ulhaq
                            Allahu musta an! Akhi, save us the trouble...if you don t have knowledge or any proof for what you are saying then save us the trouble and don t reply. -- I
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 3, 2002
                              Allahu musta'an! Akhi, save us the trouble...if you
                              don't have knowledge or any proof for what you are
                              saying then save us the trouble and don't reply.

                              --> I referred to the knowledge of the Book.

                              Again, you are avoiding the issue...as the people of
                              innovation always do...avoid the real issue.

                              --> Akhi, this is a blind shot. You are accusing me of avoiding the issue whereas I know who is fabricating a religious requirement of headcovering that does not exist in the Quran as was stated earlier.

                              Why are you dealing with translations, especially the
                              translation of Yusuf Ali. The scholars of Arabic in
                              Medinah have reviewed his book and have stated that it
                              is not to be used or distributed because of the grave
                              mistakes that it has.

                              --> Read again. I was refuting the translation actually. Nevertheless, if a translation is okay 90% of the time and not 10% you can't reject the entire translation.

                              Anyway, you can't meticulously
                              analyze this verse without any knowledge of the Arabic
                              language. This is why I questioned you in the last
                              email.

                              --> Seems like you do not have full grasp of classical Arabic linguistics as we shall see below.


                              > The word khumr is translated as a "veil". Actually
                              > it means any cloth used to cover.

                              Where is your proof? It does not mean a cloth to
                              cover. You can't stop there. It means a cloth that
                              covers the head. If you studied just a little Arabic
                              then you would know that what you are saying is
                              nothing more than garbage.





                              Anyway, just like the word
                              for Alcohol Khamr. The root word is the same root
                              word for Khimaar, which Khaa maa raa. Because alcohol
                              is something that covers the mind.

                              --> A mind is different than a head. :) So thats a desperate effort to connect the two. This reminds me of the Quran scholar Parvez.

                              These are basic
                              rules of Sarf in that most Arabic words originate from
                              3 or 4 root letters.


                              --> And I said that the root form is khmr :



                              Its verb is khmr
                              > (to cover) Translating it as "veil" or facecovering
                              > contradicts the sentence.



                              This is not the verb khmr is not a verb...the verb "to
                              cover" is yakhmuru.

                              --> Buzz! kh m r is the root form called 'denuded verb form'. You are talking about the future form which is not considered the root form by any grammarian.



                              It does not contradict the
                              sentence it confirms the sentence especially if you
                              know what the women where wearing at that time.


                              --> The women were wearing a cover/khimar such that they did not cover their chest and hence the order came.


                              If the order is to cover
                              > the bosoms, which it is in the verse, it would not
                              > be done by a veil since a veil covers the face/head
                              > not the chest.

                              This is not true because the women and men wore long
                              cloths on their head to protect them from the sun and
                              the sand storms. But Allah subhana'wa'tala ordered
                              the women to dress in a way which define a righteous
                              woman and to protect them from molestation.


                              --> I commend you to admit to this truth. Jazakallah and stay steadfast on this truth ya akhi. Women AND men used to wear this long cover NOT a headcovering with the sole reason "to protect them from the sun and the sand storms". Since women would not cover their chests which are a zinat only for women (notice the word zinat used repeatedly in the verse of Al-Noor), THEY were told to cover their chests.


                              The order is "to place their covers
                              > on their bosoms". The pagan Arab women had the
                              > custom to place their covers in such a way that they
                              > would reveal their breasts and hence this order to
                              > encourage a proper covering of the chest ... which
                              > is the zinat of a woman, mentioned in the same
                              > verse.
                              >
                              What cover? A cover "khimaar" which is covering the
                              head...Allah says take that cover and draw it over
                              your bosom.

                              --> In the previous sentence you yourself admitted ( and I praise you ) that the Khumr/covers they used to wear were long and now you say that Khumr/covers are just headcovering. Please rethink about it.

                              Inshallah you will find the truth that Allah does not need any help to explain His verses if we have faith in ONLY him.






                              ---------------------------------
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                            • munir ulhaq
                              For what I said I do not need to give you any other proof. YOU have to: Give me just ONE example of any book of hadith/collections written by any companion of
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 3, 2002
                                For what I said I do not need to give you any other proof. YOU have to: Give me just ONE example of any book of hadith/collections written by any companion of the prophet or Muslims just the way we have bokhari etc..

                                Abdullah al-Kidd <abujilani@...> wrote: Historical facts from what books. Your not quote from
                                history...your quoting from His-Story. Your claim is
                                a lie...In fact, reading Islamic history books such as
                                Ibn Kathir and others will refute what you are saying.
                                What books did you get this information from and who
                                are their authors?




                                ---------------------------------
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • fital lug
                                please donot discss these useless things at yahoo , it is the time for dawa to non muslims, while you poeple are still stuck to things like hijab, khumer head
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 3, 2002
                                  please donot discss these useless things at yahoo , it is the time for dawa
                                  to non muslims, while you poeple are still stuck to things like hijab,
                                  khumer head covering like base less topics which has been setteled santuries
                                  ago do not send me these nonsense mattar again,


                                  >From: munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@...>
                                  >Reply-To: embracingislam@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: embracingislam@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: Re: [Embracing Islam] Khumr vs. headcovering
                                  >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 18:59:53 -0700 (PDT)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Allahu musta'an! Akhi, save us the trouble...if you
                                  >don't have knowledge or any proof for what you are
                                  >saying then save us the trouble and don't reply.
                                  >
                                  >--> I referred to the knowledge of the Book.
                                  >
                                  >Again, you are avoiding the issue...as the people of
                                  >innovation always do...avoid the real issue.
                                  >
                                  >--> Akhi, this is a blind shot. You are accusing me of avoiding the issue
                                  >whereas I know who is fabricating a religious requirement of headcovering
                                  >that does not exist in the Quran as was stated earlier.
                                  >
                                  >Why are you dealing with translations, especially the
                                  >translation of Yusuf Ali. The scholars of Arabic in
                                  >Medinah have reviewed his book and have stated that it
                                  >is not to be used or distributed because of the grave
                                  >mistakes that it has.
                                  >
                                  >--> Read again. I was refuting the translation actually. Nevertheless, if a
                                  >translation is okay 90% of the time and not 10% you can't reject the entire
                                  >translation.
                                  >
                                  >Anyway, you can't meticulously
                                  >analyze this verse without any knowledge of the Arabic
                                  >language. This is why I questioned you in the last
                                  >email.
                                  >
                                  >--> Seems like you do not have full grasp of classical Arabic linguistics
                                  >as we shall see below.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > The word khumr is translated as a "veil". Actually
                                  > > it means any cloth used to cover.
                                  >
                                  >Where is your proof? It does not mean a cloth to
                                  >cover. You can't stop there. It means a cloth that
                                  >covers the head. If you studied just a little Arabic
                                  >then you would know that what you are saying is
                                  >nothing more than garbage.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Anyway, just like the word
                                  >for Alcohol Khamr. The root word is the same root
                                  >word for Khimaar, which Khaa maa raa. Because alcohol
                                  >is something that covers the mind.
                                  >
                                  >--> A mind is different than a head. :) So thats a desperate effort to
                                  >connect the two. This reminds me of the Quran scholar Parvez.
                                  >
                                  >These are basic
                                  >rules of Sarf in that most Arabic words originate from
                                  >3 or 4 root letters.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >--> And I said that the root form is khmr :
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Its verb is khmr
                                  > > (to cover) Translating it as "veil" or facecovering
                                  > > contradicts the sentence.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >This is not the verb khmr is not a verb...the verb "to
                                  >cover" is yakhmuru.
                                  >
                                  >--> Buzz! kh m r is the root form called 'denuded verb form'. You are
                                  >talking about the future form which is not considered the root form by any
                                  >grammarian.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >It does not contradict the
                                  >sentence it confirms the sentence especially if you
                                  >know what the women where wearing at that time.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >--> The women were wearing a cover/khimar such that they did not cover
                                  >their chest and hence the order came.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >If the order is to cover
                                  > > the bosoms, which it is in the verse, it would not
                                  > > be done by a veil since a veil covers the face/head
                                  > > not the chest.
                                  >
                                  >This is not true because the women and men wore long
                                  >cloths on their head to protect them from the sun and
                                  >the sand storms. But Allah subhana'wa'tala ordered
                                  >the women to dress in a way which define a righteous
                                  >woman and to protect them from molestation.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >--> I commend you to admit to this truth. Jazakallah and stay steadfast on
                                  >this truth ya akhi. Women AND men used to wear this long cover NOT a
                                  >headcovering with the sole reason "to protect them from the sun and the
                                  >sand storms". Since women would not cover their chests which are a zinat
                                  >only for women (notice the word zinat used repeatedly in the verse of
                                  >Al-Noor), THEY were told to cover their chests.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >The order is "to place their covers
                                  > > on their bosoms". The pagan Arab women had the
                                  > > custom to place their covers in such a way that they
                                  > > would reveal their breasts and hence this order to
                                  > > encourage a proper covering of the chest ... which
                                  > > is the zinat of a woman, mentioned in the same
                                  > > verse.
                                  > >
                                  >What cover? A cover "khimaar" which is covering the
                                  >head...Allah says take that cover and draw it over
                                  >your bosom.
                                  >
                                  >--> In the previous sentence you yourself admitted ( and I praise you )
                                  >that the Khumr/covers they used to wear were long and now you say that
                                  >Khumr/covers are just headcovering. Please rethink about it.
                                  >
                                  >Inshallah you will find the truth that Allah does not need any help to
                                  >explain His verses if we have faith in ONLY him.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >---------------------------------
                                  >Do You Yahoo!?
                                  >Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                                  >
                                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >




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                                • Abdullah al-Kidd
                                  As salaam alaikum alaikum Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah Akhi...this is my final reply to your bid ah. The bottom line is that your argument
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 3, 2002
                                    As salaam alaikum alaikum

                                    Bismillah was salaat was salaam ala rasoolullah

                                    Akhi...this is my final reply to your bid'ah. The
                                    bottom line is that your argument is an old, weak, and
                                    an unsuccessful try to divide the Muslims. This plot
                                    is of course headed by Shaitan. When Allah revealed
                                    the verse which what translated means..."and hold
                                    tight to the Rope that Allah has stretched our you and
                                    don't divide into Sects." When Prophet (SAWS) was
                                    asked about this verse He (SAWS) replied that the rope
                                    that Allah has provided for us is the Qur'an and The
                                    Sunnah of Muhammad (SAWS). It is clear from reading
                                    the Qur'an only that one of the ways that Allah has
                                    perfected this religion is the preservation of the
                                    statements, actions, prohibitions, allowances, etc. of
                                    the Prophet (SAWS) These things have been noted during
                                    the time of the Prophet (SAWS)and after his death.
                                    Different Sahabah, Tabi'een, and some from among the
                                    Salaf used to travel many miles by foot or camel just
                                    reach a Sahabah who had a hadith with him. This is an
                                    attempt by Shaitan and his helpers and servants to
                                    wipe out big portion of Islam; it is attempt to render
                                    the Great Scholars of the past and present as
                                    fruitless; it is attempt to literally wipe out some of
                                    the great miracles that have been mentioned in hadith;
                                    this is an attempt wipe out the advancement that
                                    Muslims have achieved through persevering in Science
                                    and Medicine; it is an attempt to wipe out the
                                    Prophetic Medicine which has been perserved through
                                    Hadith and has benefitted many "Believers" and will
                                    continue insha'allah for those who believe in Allah
                                    and His Messenger (SAWS).

                                    The truth of the matter is that I have provided proof
                                    and you have produced no proof. In every instance
                                    that you have argued you have not succeeded nor
                                    produced any shed of evidence for your claims. Many
                                    scholars of the past in explaining the description of
                                    the people of bid'ah, say that they always argue on
                                    "simple" issues; but if you were to look into their
                                    Aqeedah or their understanding of Tawheed, you would
                                    find that those are real issues that they should be
                                    discussing. They don't discuss these issues, they
                                    only cast out their Shubahat (frivilous arguements
                                    without proof) in order to lead someone into their web
                                    of confusion and deviation.

                                    In fact, your denial of the understanding that there
                                    is a connection in meaning from all words that stim
                                    from any root word. Obviously, you didn't pass your
                                    Sarf class because anyone who has studied Arabic would
                                    know that Khimaar and Khamr and khamara all come from
                                    kh m r and in meaning they all have something to do
                                    with covering the head. This explanation is written
                                    in many Arabic books of today and yesterday. Just ask
                                    any Professor of Arabic language and you will see.
                                    Anyway, this is not our point. The real issue is that
                                    you deny the Sunnah and the authentic tradions of the
                                    Prophet (SAWS) which is Ridda. I would like you to
                                    think about how weak your arguements really are. How
                                    do you pray? How do you make athan? How do you make
                                    wudhu? How do you make tawwaf around the Ka'ba? How do
                                    you make Hajj? Do you read al Fatihah in the
                                    beginning of every prayer? How do you ask? There are
                                    many questions that I can ask you. And if you are
                                    Muslim there is only one answer to all of these
                                    questions. Don't post your answers...trust me we
                                    don't need to know them. There are only a few people
                                    who believe like you and insha'allah Allah will guide
                                    you to the truth or HE will deal with you according to
                                    HIS Will.

                                    I encourage you to enlighten new Muslims here on the
                                    list with "real" beneficial knowledge which can bring
                                    them closer to Allah. Knowledge that will benefit
                                    their learning process and general understanding of
                                    Tawheed, Laa ilaha ilallah, Virtues of Salah, etc. If
                                    you don't possess that beneficial knowledge, then it
                                    is better to keep silent.

                                    Subhana'allah, non-Muslims have acknowledged that
                                    which you deny...

                                    May Allah guide us all...Ameen

                                    Abdullah




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                                  • Abdullah al-Kidd
                                    The Messenger of Allah (saws) said: The right of Allaah upon His servants is that they should worship Him (alone) and not associate anything with Him
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 3, 2002
                                      The Messenger of Allah (saws) said: "The right of
                                      Allaah upon His servants is that they should worship
                                      Him (alone) and not associate anything with Him"
                                      [Bukhaaree and Muslim].

                                      Allaah created us that we may worship Him alone and
                                      not associate anything with Him. Allaah has said {I
                                      did not create Jinn and Men except that they may
                                      worship me.} [51:56]. So what is this Ibaadah, what
                                      are its types and conditions and how should it be
                                      performed?.

                                      Ibaadah is a collective term for everything which
                                      Allaah loves and is pleased with from among the words
                                      and actions such as supplication, prayer, and
                                      patience. Allaah says {Say: Verily my prayer, my
                                      service of sacrifice, my life and my death are all for
                                      Allaah the Lord of the Worlds.} [6:162] and the
                                      Prophet (saws) said "Allaah the Exalted said: My
                                      servant does not draw near to Me with anything more
                                      loved by me than the obligatory actions which I have
                                      imposed upon him" [Bukhaaree].

                                      The types of Ibaadah are many and include
                                      supplication, fear hope, reliance, love of obedience
                                      to Allaah, hatred of disobedience to Him, remorse,
                                      repentance, seeking aid from Him, vowing, sacrifice,
                                      bowing and prostrating and others besides these. Thus
                                      the first thing which a Muslim acknowledges is that he
                                      has been created for Ibaadah and that is due to his
                                      declaration of Laa ilaaha illallaaha (There is none
                                      worthy of worship except Allaah alone). He must then
                                      know of its form and types.

                                      The second thing the Muslim should realise is that a
                                      necessary condition of worship is that it is sincere.
                                      Allaah the Exalted said {So whoever hopes for the
                                      meeting with His Lord let him work deeds of
                                      righteousness and associate none as a partner in the
                                      worship of His Lord.} [18:110] and the Messenger
                                      (saws) said "Indeed Allaah does not look at your faces
                                      nor your wealth but He looks at your hearts and your
                                      actions." [Muslim]. Also there is the Hadeeth Qudsee
                                      where the Messenger (saws) said that Allaah said "I am
                                      so self-sufficient that I am in no need of having
                                      partners. Thus, whoever does an action for someone
                                      else's sake as well as Mine, will have that action
                                      rejected by Me to him whom he associated with Me"
                                      [Muslim].

                                      Another vital condition of worship is that it is
                                      correct and therefore acceptable to Allaah. Our
                                      Ibaadah of Allaah should be as He and His Messenger
                                      (saws) have commanded us. Allaah says {O you who
                                      believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger and do not
                                      let your actions become nullified.} [47:33] and the
                                      Messenger (saws) has said "Whoever does an action
                                      which we have not commanded will have it rejected."
                                      [Muslim] and he (saws) also said "Whoever does an
                                      action in a way different from ours will have it
                                      rejected" [Abu Daawood - Saheeh].

                                      Fudayl ibn Ayyaad, a taabi'ee, said regarding the
                                      verse {...that He may test you, which of you is best
                                      in deeds...} [11:7] , "The most sincere and the most
                                      correct" so those who were around him said "And what
                                      is the most sincere and the most correct?" He replied
                                      "Action, if it is correct but not sincere will not be
                                      accepted and action, if it is sincere but not correct
                                      will not be accepted until it is both sincere and
                                      correct. Sincere means that nothing but the Face of
                                      Allaah is sought and correct means that it is in
                                      conformity with the Sunnah."

                                      So these are two necessary conditions for our Ibaadah
                                      to be acceptable to Allaah, namely that they are
                                      sincere (for the sake of Allaah) and correct (in
                                      conformity with the Sunnah).

                                      Allaah has also commanded us {So call upon Him (out
                                      of) Fear and Hope.} [6:56] and the Messenger (saws)
                                      used to supplicate "I ask Allaah for Paradise and I
                                      seek refuge in Him from the Fire" [Abu Daawood -
                                      Saheeh]. And this is the fourth point : that our
                                      Ibaadah should be in between hoping for Allaah's Mercy
                                      and reward and fearing His punishment. Some of the
                                      pious predecessors used to say "Whoever worships
                                      Allaah with Love only is indeed a Zindeeq (a heretic)
                                      and whoever worships Him with Hope only is indeed a
                                      Murji' (one who believes sins impart no harm to a
                                      persons faith) and whoever worships Him with Fear only
                                      is indeed a Harooree (one of those believe that sins
                                      take a person out of Islaam) but whoever worships Him
                                      with Love, Fear and Hope is indeed a believing
                                      Muwahhid (one who performs the Tawheed of Allaah)."

                                      Therefore, in all our actions we should fear Allaah's
                                      displeasure and punishment and then balance this with
                                      hoping for His pleasure and reward. Furthermore, we
                                      should love Him and love obedience to Him.

                                      Another characteristic of our Ibaadah is being aware
                                      of the presence of Allaah, that His knowledge is with
                                      us and He sees and hears us. This fifth point is
                                      Ihsaan. Allaah says {The One Who sees you when you
                                      stand up for the prayer and when you move amongst
                                      those who prostrate themselves} [26:218] and also in
                                      the hadeeth of Jibreel when he said to the Messenger
                                      (saws) "Ihsaan is that you worship Allaah as if you
                                      see Him and while you see Him not yet truly He sees
                                      you" [Muslim].

                                      So these are five points concerning our Ibaadah
                                      namely:

                                      1.Acknowledgement of the purpose of our existence,
                                      which is to worship Allaah alone without any partners.
                                      This is the requirement and meaning of the declaration
                                      of faith: There is none worthy of worship except
                                      Allaah.
                                      2.Extreme sincerity in fulfilling that purpose
                                      3.The correctness of our Ibaadah and that is upon the
                                      Sunnah of the Messenger (saws)
                                      4.Worshipping Allaah by combining Love, Fear and Hope
                                      in all of our actions
                                      5. And accompanying all of that with Ihsaan.

                                      The example of the one who learns these five points
                                      concerning the Ibaadah of his Lord and builds all of
                                      his actions upon them and the one who does not and is
                                      careless about his worship is like the example Allaah
                                      has given {Which then is best? - he who lays the
                                      foundation of his house upon Taqwa and His Good
                                      Pleasure or he who lays the foundation of his house
                                      upon an undetermined brink of a precipice ready to
                                      crumble down, so that it crumbles down with him into
                                      the Fire of Hell?} [9:108].

                                      So respected brothers and sisters lets not be careless
                                      and make our actions vain like Allaah has mentioned
                                      regarding some people, {And We shall turn to whatever
                                      actions they did and turn them into scattered dust.}
                                      [25:23] but rather let us become cautious and send
                                      something foreword for the Day of Judgement, the Day
                                      when we will be in great need for good actions, that
                                      is our sincere and correct Ibaadah.





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                                    • opulent_gardens
                                      salam alikom i was invited to this club, but after reading this ongoing feud over the word khimar, which by the way means cover, i am not so sure that this is
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 7, 2002
                                        salam alikom
                                        i was invited to this club, but after reading this ongoing feud over
                                        the word khimar, which by the way means cover, i am not so sure that
                                        this is the place i should be. why argue or heatedly discuss such a
                                        simple matter? let's not let our pride get the best of us. some of
                                        the postings i have read can be viewed as insulting and/or attacks.

                                        let us make peace amongst ourselves for the sake of Allah.

                                        --- In embracingislam@y..., munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@y...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Allahu musta'an! Akhi, save us the trouble...if you
                                        > don't have knowledge or any proof for what you are
                                        > saying then save us the trouble and don't reply.
                                        >
                                        > --> I referred to the knowledge of the Book.
                                        >
                                        > Again, you are avoiding the issue...as the people of
                                        > innovation always do...avoid the real issue.
                                        >
                                        > --> Akhi, this is a blind shot. You are accusing me of avoiding the
                                        issue whereas I know who is fabricating a religious requirement of
                                        headcovering that does not exist in the Quran as was stated earlier.
                                        >
                                        > Why are you dealing with translations, especially the
                                        > translation of Yusuf Ali. The scholars of Arabic in
                                        > Medinah have reviewed his book and have stated that it
                                        > is not to be used or distributed because of the grave
                                        > mistakes that it has.
                                        >
                                        > --> Read again. I was refuting the translation actually.
                                        Nevertheless, if a translation is okay 90% of the time and not 10%
                                        you can't reject the entire translation.
                                        >
                                        > Anyway, you can't meticulously
                                        > analyze this verse without any knowledge of the Arabic
                                        > language. This is why I questioned you in the last
                                        > email.
                                        >
                                        > --> Seems like you do not have full grasp of classical Arabic
                                        linguistics as we shall see below.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > The word khumr is translated as a "veil". Actually
                                        > > it means any cloth used to cover.
                                        >
                                        > Where is your proof? It does not mean a cloth to
                                        > cover. You can't stop there. It means a cloth that
                                        > covers the head. If you studied just a little Arabic
                                        > then you would know that what you are saying is
                                        > nothing more than garbage.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Anyway, just like the word
                                        > for Alcohol Khamr. The root word is the same root
                                        > word for Khimaar, which Khaa maa raa. Because alcohol
                                        > is something that covers the mind.
                                        >
                                        > --> A mind is different than a head. :) So thats a desperate effort
                                        to connect the two. This reminds me of the Quran scholar Parvez.
                                        >
                                        > These are basic
                                        > rules of Sarf in that most Arabic words originate from
                                        > 3 or 4 root letters.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --> And I said that the root form is khmr :
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Its verb is khmr
                                        > > (to cover) Translating it as "veil" or facecovering
                                        > > contradicts the sentence.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > This is not the verb khmr is not a verb...the verb "to
                                        > cover" is yakhmuru.
                                        >
                                        > --> Buzz! kh m r is the root form called 'denuded verb form'. You
                                        are talking about the future form which is not considered the root
                                        form by any grammarian.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > It does not contradict the
                                        > sentence it confirms the sentence especially if you
                                        > know what the women where wearing at that time.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --> The women were wearing a cover/khimar such that they did not
                                        cover their chest and hence the order came.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > If the order is to cover
                                        > > the bosoms, which it is in the verse, it would not
                                        > > be done by a veil since a veil covers the face/head
                                        > > not the chest.
                                        >
                                        > This is not true because the women and men wore long
                                        > cloths on their head to protect them from the sun and
                                        > the sand storms. But Allah subhana'wa'tala ordered
                                        > the women to dress in a way which define a righteous
                                        > woman and to protect them from molestation.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --> I commend you to admit to this truth. Jazakallah and stay
                                        steadfast on this truth ya akhi. Women AND men used to wear this long
                                        cover NOT a headcovering with the sole reason "to protect them from
                                        the sun and the sand storms". Since women would not cover their
                                        chests which are a zinat only for women (notice the word zinat used
                                        repeatedly in the verse of Al-Noor), THEY were told to cover their
                                        chests.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The order is "to place their covers
                                        > > on their bosoms". The pagan Arab women had the
                                        > > custom to place their covers in such a way that they
                                        > > would reveal their breasts and hence this order to
                                        > > encourage a proper covering of the chest ... which
                                        > > is the zinat of a woman, mentioned in the same
                                        > > verse.
                                        > >
                                        > What cover? A cover "khimaar" which is covering the
                                        > head...Allah says take that cover and draw it over
                                        > your bosom.
                                        >
                                        > --> In the previous sentence you yourself admitted ( and I praise
                                        you ) that the Khumr/covers they used to wear were long and now you
                                        say that Khumr/covers are just headcovering. Please rethink about it.
                                        >
                                        > Inshallah you will find the truth that Allah does not need any help
                                        to explain His verses if we have faith in ONLY him.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • ni_70
                                        wa alaikum salam, This arguments has been stopped in few days back. We r not here to arguing what is basic and written in Al Quran and Hadith. The moderators
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 7, 2002
                                          wa alaikum salam,

                                          This arguments has been stopped in few days back. We'r not here to
                                          arguing what is basic and written in Al Quran and Hadith. The
                                          moderators have settled the matters, so please keep joining and share
                                          your ideas and knowledges among members.

                                          wasalam,
                                          sis ni

                                          --- In embracingislam@y..., "opulent_gardens" <opulent_gardens@y...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > salam alikom
                                          > i was invited to this club, but after reading this ongoing feud
                                          over
                                          > the word khimar, which by the way means cover, i am not so sure
                                          that
                                          > this is the place i should be. why argue or heatedly discuss such a
                                          > simple matter? let's not let our pride get the best of us. some of
                                          > the postings i have read can be viewed as insulting and/or attacks.
                                          >
                                          > let us make peace amongst ourselves for the sake of Allah.
                                          >
                                          > --- In embracingislam@y..., munir ulhaq <munirulhaq3@y...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Allahu musta'an! Akhi, save us the trouble...if you
                                          > > don't have knowledge or any proof for what you are
                                          > > saying then save us the trouble and don't reply.
                                          > >
                                          > > --> I referred to the knowledge of the Book.
                                          > >
                                          > > Again, you are avoiding the issue...as the people of
                                          > > innovation always do...avoid the real issue.
                                          > >
                                          > > --> Akhi, this is a blind shot. You are accusing me of avoiding
                                          the
                                          > issue whereas I know who is fabricating a religious requirement of
                                          > headcovering that does not exist in the Quran as was stated earlier.
                                          > >
                                          > > Why are you dealing with translations, especially the
                                          > > translation of Yusuf Ali. The scholars of Arabic in
                                          > > Medinah have reviewed his book and have stated that it
                                          > > is not to be used or distributed because of the grave
                                          > > mistakes that it has.
                                          > >
                                          > > --> Read again. I was refuting the translation actually.
                                          > Nevertheless, if a translation is okay 90% of the time and not 10%
                                          > you can't reject the entire translation.
                                          > >
                                          > > Anyway, you can't meticulously
                                          > > analyze this verse without any knowledge of the Arabic
                                          > > language. This is why I questioned you in the last
                                          > > email.
                                          > >
                                          > > --> Seems like you do not have full grasp of classical Arabic
                                          > linguistics as we shall see below.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > The word khumr is translated as a "veil". Actually
                                          > > > it means any cloth used to cover.
                                          > >
                                          > > Where is your proof? It does not mean a cloth to
                                          > > cover. You can't stop there. It means a cloth that
                                          > > covers the head. If you studied just a little Arabic
                                          > > then you would know that what you are saying is
                                          > > nothing more than garbage.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Anyway, just like the word
                                          > > for Alcohol Khamr. The root word is the same root
                                          > > word for Khimaar, which Khaa maa raa. Because alcohol
                                          > > is something that covers the mind.
                                          > >
                                          > > --> A mind is different than a head. :) So thats a desperate
                                          effort
                                          > to connect the two. This reminds me of the Quran scholar Parvez.
                                          > >
                                          > > These are basic
                                          > > rules of Sarf in that most Arabic words originate from
                                          > > 3 or 4 root letters.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --> And I said that the root form is khmr :
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Its verb is khmr
                                          > > > (to cover) Translating it as "veil" or facecovering
                                          > > > contradicts the sentence.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > This is not the verb khmr is not a verb...the verb "to
                                          > > cover" is yakhmuru.
                                          > >
                                          > > --> Buzz! kh m r is the root form called 'denuded verb form'. You
                                          > are talking about the future form which is not considered the root
                                          > form by any grammarian.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > It does not contradict the
                                          > > sentence it confirms the sentence especially if you
                                          > > know what the women where wearing at that time.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --> The women were wearing a cover/khimar such that they did not
                                          > cover their chest and hence the order came.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > If the order is to cover
                                          > > > the bosoms, which it is in the verse, it would not
                                          > > > be done by a veil since a veil covers the face/head
                                          > > > not the chest.
                                          > >
                                          > > This is not true because the women and men wore long
                                          > > cloths on their head to protect them from the sun and
                                          > > the sand storms. But Allah subhana'wa'tala ordered
                                          > > the women to dress in a way which define a righteous
                                          > > woman and to protect them from molestation.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --> I commend you to admit to this truth. Jazakallah and stay
                                          > steadfast on this truth ya akhi. Women AND men used to wear this
                                          long
                                          > cover NOT a headcovering with the sole reason "to protect them from
                                          > the sun and the sand storms". Since women would not cover their
                                          > chests which are a zinat only for women (notice the word zinat used
                                          > repeatedly in the verse of Al-Noor), THEY were told to cover their
                                          > chests.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > The order is "to place their covers
                                          > > > on their bosoms". The pagan Arab women had the
                                          > > > custom to place their covers in such a way that they
                                          > > > would reveal their breasts and hence this order to
                                          > > > encourage a proper covering of the chest ... which
                                          > > > is the zinat of a woman, mentioned in the same
                                          > > > verse.
                                          > > >
                                          > > What cover? A cover "khimaar" which is covering the
                                          > > head...Allah says take that cover and draw it over
                                          > > your bosom.
                                          > >
                                          > > --> In the previous sentence you yourself admitted ( and I praise
                                          > you ) that the Khumr/covers they used to wear were long and now you
                                          > say that Khumr/covers are just headcovering. Please rethink about
                                          it.
                                          > >
                                          > > Inshallah you will find the truth that Allah does not need any
                                          help
                                          > to explain His verses if we have faith in ONLY him.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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