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Re: [ematthew] the mission to the gentiles

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  • L. J. Swain
    ... To a degree, politics. X-Mozilla-Status: 0009 for Christian interpreters in the NT than there is in the OT , so a greater degree of precision is
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 21, 2002
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      Steve Black wrote:
      >
      > >Robert Brenchley wrote...

      >
      > As an aside - why is it, do you think, that in NT studies the
      > presence of interpolations are only granted with extreme reluctance
      > whereas in OT studies the are commonly seen everywhere and at all
      > times?? Its not like we have enough textual witnesses to eliminate
      > the possibilities. Scribal activity is just as volatile. Just
      > wondering...


      To a degree, politics. X-Mozilla-Status: 0009 for Christian
      interpreters in the NT than there is in the "OT", so a greater degree of
      precision is necessary to prove something in the received text is an
      interpolation or not. Most Christians could jettison the Hebrew Bible
      and still maintain the tenets of their faith.

      Larry Swain
    • Munachi E. Ezeogu
      Steve Black Wrote: Mt conflates the sent with the not sent in the missionary passage. The motif of family turning against family does not make much sense for
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 21, 2002
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        Steve Black Wrote:
        Mt conflates the sent with the not sent in the "missionary" passage.
        The motif of family turning against family does not make much sense
        for itinerants who presumably aren't at home and thus cannot really
        be betrayed by other family members. Thus it seems that the
        "missionary" passage isn't entirely a missionary passage at all.
        ~~~~~

        In addition, it is to be noted that whereas Mk (6:12) and Lk (9:6) indicate that
        the disciples actually "go" after receiveing the "missionary" instructions, Mt
        fails to indicate that the disciples actually "go" anywhere after the
        "missionary" instructions in chap 10. Is this perhaps a pointer to Mt's interest
        or lack thereof in outside mission?

        Ernest Munachi Ezeogu
        Toronto School of Theology
      • L. J. Swain
        ... Interesting observations, from both of you. I m not sure I would read too much into Matthew s silence. a) What do you, Ernest, mean by outside mission ?
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 23, 2002
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          "Munachi E. Ezeogu" wrote:
          >
          > Steve Black Wrote:
          > Mt conflates the sent with the not sent in the "missionary" passage.
          > The motif of family turning against family does not make much sense
          > for itinerants who presumably aren't at home and thus cannot really
          > be betrayed by other family members. Thus it seems that the
          > "missionary" passage isn't entirely a missionary passage at all.
          > ~~~~~
          >
          > In addition, it is to be noted that whereas Mk (6:12) and Lk (9:6) indicate that
          > the disciples actually "go" after receiveing the "missionary" instructions, Mt
          > fails to indicate that the disciples actually "go" anywhere after the
          > "missionary" instructions in chap 10. Is this perhaps a pointer to Mt's interest
          > or lack thereof in outside mission?
          >
          > Ernest Munachi Ezeogu
          > Toronto School of Theology


          Interesting observations, from both of you. I'm not sure I would read
          too much into Matthew's silence.

          a) What do you, Ernest, mean by "outside mission"? If you mean a
          mission among the Gentiles, in Matthew 10 where you observe Matthew not
          mentioning the disciples'departure (or their return later), since this
          "mission" is aimed at Israel. b) since it is interested in Israel,
          would you say that Matthew's community is disinterested in "mission" or
          "making disciples" even within Israel? and if so c) how do we explain
          things like Matt 4 in which Jesus is proclaiming the kingdom to all and
          sundry, or the analogy at the end of chapter 9, and the explict
          statement that Jesus sent them out.

          This is one of those places I think we're invited by the author to
          assume that what he described in 10:5 (These 12 Jesus sent out after
          instructing them....) is what happened. In any case, the focus of the
          section is on Jesus and Jesus instruction, par for the course in
          Matthew, and not the disciples.

          Ernest, I'd still really like to see your ideas on Matt 28:19ff fleshed
          out, and we can do it either as an "article" in prep, or via email
          messages. But you have an intriguing idea.

          Larry Swain
        • Edgar M. Krentz
          ... Larry Swain I have followed this long string with interest. I venture an opinion here with some hesitancy, but, as ancient Euripides sometimes concluded a
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 23, 2002
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            >Interesting observations, from both of you. I'm not sure I would read
            >too much into Matthew's silence.
            >
            >a) What do you, Ernest, mean by "outside mission"? If you mean a
            >mission among the Gentiles, in Matthew 10 where you observe Matthew not
            >mentioning the disciples'departure (or their return later), since this
            >"mission" is aimed at Israel. b) since it is interested in Israel,
            >would you say that Matthew's community is disinterested in "mission" or
            >"making disciples" even within Israel? and if so c) how do we explain
            >things like Matt 4 in which Jesus is proclaiming the kingdom to all and
            >sundry, or the analogy at the end of chapter 9, and the explict
            >statement that Jesus sent them out.
            >
            >This is one of those places I think we're invited by the author to
            >assume that what he described in 10:5 (These 12 Jesus sent out after
            >instructing them....) is what happened. In any case, the focus of the
            >section is on Jesus and Jesus instruction, par for the course in
            >Matthew, and not the disciples.
            >
            Larry Swain

            I have followed this long string with interest. I venture an opinion
            here with some hesitancy, but, as ancient Euripides sometimes
            concluded a line in his tragedies, ALL' hOMOS.

            I have noticed a tendency to concentrate on a very few Matthean
            passages, without looking at the entire plan of the book. Chapters
            11-12, which come after chapter 10, describe how many in Galilee
            rejected Jesus' message. In chapter 12 comes that Isaiah citation
            which end "and on his name Gentiles hope."

            Jesus enters Jerusalem in Matthew 21. Matthew cites an OT passge at
            that point, but omits from the LXX the words DIKAIOS KAI SOZON, "just
            and bringing salvation." Jesus enters Jerusalem as its judge. He
            curses the fig tree, an enacted parable of judgment in 21:18-22.

            After the question on authority there follow three parables from
            Jesus. The first is the parable of the two sons. Note its conclusion:
            "John the Baptist came to you on the path of righteousness, and you
            did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes believed
            him. And when you saw that, you did not later repent and believe
            him." Matt 21:28-32)

            Then look at the next parable: it ends"On account of this I tell you
            that the royal rule of God will be taken away from you and given to a
            gentile nation that produces its fruits." (Matt 221:43)

            I will omit discussing the significance of the notes in the passion narrative.

            Written after the destruction of Jerusalem, Matthew's
            Jewish-Christian church is beginning to doubt the correctness of its
            belief in Jesus--after all, most Jews don't. And they are excluding
            the Jewish Christians from Judaism. (Matt 5:10-12) Matthew is
            concerned to show them that they have everything that proper Jews
            have: Torah and prophets, correct actions, etc. And the gospel ends
            by calling them to convert TA ETHNE, the [gentile] nations. That may
            also include un-believing Jews!

            Thus Matthew 10 and Matthew 18 belong to two quite different times in
            salvation history. Matthew is neither inconsistent or
            self-contradictory. Rather he is involved in strengthening a
            community unsure of itself by giving it an identity in spite of the
            general Jewish exclusion of it.

            Peace,

            Edgar Krentz
            --
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            Edgar Krentz
            Professor Emeritus of New Testament
            Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
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            Chicago, IL 60615
            Telephone: (773) 256-0773 Home Tel: 773-947-8105
            Office e-mail: ekrentz@... Home e-mail: ekrentz@...
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          • Munachi E. Ezeogu
            Please, Larry and everybody, bear with me for the silence. Hopefully I will be able to answer the charges by the weekend. Time is in short supply. What else
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 24, 2002
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              Please, Larry and everybody, bear with me for the silence. Hopefully I will be able to "answer the charges" by the weekend. Time is in short supply. What else can you expect from a Ph.D. student in the thesis writing stage? Thank you Steve for tabling this discussion.

              Ernest Munachi Ezeogu (Ph.D. Cand)
              Toronto School of Theology

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