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Re: [ematthew] Ignoring Patristic exegesis of the Lord's Prayer

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  • MillerJimE@AOL.COM
    There remains the question of what modern commentators wish to understand about the text. I see two areas where attention to the earliest commentaries are
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 27, 2008
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      There remains the question of what modern commentators wish to understand
      about the text. I see two areas where attention to the earliest commentaries
      are important.
      First, as I look at the texts in critical editions, I find a rather
      heavy weight of substantial variants, almost double that for surrounding texts
      (results may vary depending on what you consider substantial). Early
      commentaries not only provide evidence for the text known to the ancient commentator,
      but also provide clues for reasons why some variants were introduced,
      possibly intentionally.
      Second, early commentaries always provide some insights into how the
      language was understood by native speakers at a period somewhat close to that of
      its composition. Although this prayer usually does not pose great
      difficulties for the modern scholar, still some clues may be gleaned about how the
      statements were understood by the original audiences -- e.g. how often were
      "debts" understood as financial as in contrast to non-financial "offences" or
      "trespasses".
      As for later commentators, they are always of interest for history of
      interpretation, which seems to be outside the purview of this enquiry.
      Jim Miller



      > > If someone asked you to tell them all about what commentators/ If some
      > > have said/say about the Lord's Prayer, what reasons would you give for
      > > prescinding from outlining what Patristic (and Medieval, Reformation,
      > > and most 19th century) commentators said/say?
      > >





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    • Larry Swain
      Following up on Jim s comments, one of the values of early commentaries is that they share a cultural world with the contexts in which the Lord s Prayer is
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 27, 2008
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        Following up on Jim's comments, one of the values of early commentaries is that they share a cultural world with the contexts in which the Lord's Prayer is found, a world we do not share. So while their aims are not our aims, applying the same sort of critical techniques to their understanding of the text may yield a further contextualization for the Lord's Prayer in modern terms.

        Larry Swain

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      • Jeffrey B. Gibson
        ... I appreciate the thrust of this comment, but I have my doubts about its truth. Is Tertullian s cultural world really the same cultural world in which the
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 27, 2008
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          Larry Swain wrote:
          > Following up on Jim's comments, one of the values of early commentaries is that they share a cultural world with the contexts in which the Lord's Prayer is found, a world we do not share.
          I appreciate the thrust of this comment, but I have my doubts about its
          truth. Is Tertullian's cultural world really the same cultural world in
          which the LP originated? Is the context of the way he thought about God
          and the Messiah or prayer really that of Jews in 1st century Palestine
          -- let alone that which informs of Matthew's and Luke's view of these
          things?

          Jeffrey

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        • MillerJimE@AOL.COM
          Let s try this again. Unfortunately, we do not have the original Aramaic (assuming it existed). So there is a difficulty in doing exegesis on that original,
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 28, 2008
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            Let's try this again.
            Unfortunately, we do not have the original Aramaic (assuming it
            existed). So there is a difficulty in doing exegesis on that original, which is what
            the Jewish Messiah taught his audiences. What we have is the prayer in
            Greek form, which is the form in which it was disseminated to most 1st century
            churches. Those churches, and the author of Luke, and probably the author of
            Matthew, knew this prayer only in Greek.
            Tertullian had Latin for his 1st language, but other early commentators
            had Greek as their 1st language. And they, along with Tertullian, commented
            on the prayer within the Roman Empire prior to its conversion to a
            church-friendly government. That context is valuable to the commentator.
            Jim Miller




            <<I appreciate the thrust of this comment, but I have my doubts about its
            truth. Is Tertullian's cultural world really the same cultural world in
            which the LP originated? Is the context of the way he thought about God
            and the Messiah or prayer really that of Jews in 1st century Palestine
            -- let alone that which informs of Matthew's and Luke's view of these
            things?>>




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            challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
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