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Re: [ematthew] Re: [XTalk] Re recent Damato email concerning JefferyGibson and X-talk.

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    E-matthew list members are probably confuse about what this exchange is all about.   You might wish to know that the post in which all of it is grounded was
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 12, 2005
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      E-matthew list members are probably confuse about what this exchange is
      all about.�� You might wish to know that the post in which all of it is
      grounded was one from a certain Anthony Damato that was sent to
      E-matthew and to a host of other lists and individuals, but which did
      not appear here because AD is not subscribed to E-Matthew.

      As to Matt Estrada's charges --please **do** go to the XTalk and John
      List archives to see our exchanges on what he claims to be a reasonable
      case for an innovative view that was argued reasonably.� I am confident
      that once you see what Matt's thesis is and how he attempts to argue it,
      as well as how he responds to my criticisms of it, you'll see not only
      (a) that what he was claiming was not innovative or reasonably argued,
      but old, forced, poorly researched, and� badly argued,� (b) that he was
      claiming a knowledge of matters New Testament that he did not posses,�
      and (c) that there was good good cause to be critical of it, but (d)
      that all I was doing when I responded both to what he claimed and the
      way he tried to make his case, was calling a spade a spade -- and in a
      way that par for the course in the debates carried out in academia .

      Yours,

      Jeffrey

      Larry Swain wrote:

      > �But the issue is less about Jeffrey's posts and more about Jeffrey's
      > moderation of the lists he owns in conjunction with those on the list
      > boards.� I can't speak for your specific situation, Matthew, but from
      > my observation and experience Jeffrey has been even handed in his
      > moderating and only takes action when the posts or poster are getting
      > out of hand or are displaying a level of ignorance of the field.� I'm
      > not saying this happened with your posts on X-Talk, I can't speak to
      > that, but I can name several instances where this has occurred.
      >
      > While I think Jeffrey (and frankly I share this trait) can sometimes
      > be combative in his replies, I do not think he has ever been out of
      > line in his posts: condescending (sorry mate) sometimes, sure, but he
      > certainly isn't the only one to engage in that and at least in my view
      > there is justification for it; argumentitive certainly, but again,
      > certainly not the only one, and some justification for
      > it--particularly when as in this case a non-professional in the field
      > will not heed the information and arguments of several professionals
      > correcting the posts.� Again, I'm not saying that this applies to your
      > situation.� There is a rather significant difference between being
      > argumentitive with reason, knowledge, logic, and expertise to back one
      > up, on the one hand, and having emotional pronouncements not backed up
      > with anything and displaying a key misunderstanding of the texts and
      > the world from which those texts come: and therein lies the difference
      > between Jeffrey's argumentitive posts and in this particular case
      > D'Amato's.� IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.� I hope that both you and Dr.
      > D'Amato continue to post to X-talk and E-Matthew and other lists, in
      > spite of recent misgivings and bad feeling.
      > �
      > �
      >
      > >
      > > I am one who disagrees with you, Rikk. I have found Jeffery's
      > > postings to be very argumentative and condescending (you accuse
      > > "the good prof" of this. Please go back and read Jeffery's posts),
      > > and those who don't, he attacks. He seems to enjoy, and seems to
      > > have, people around him that "praise" and agree with him. The
      > > moderators who share the responsibility of ensuring fairness do not
      > > seem to speak out when he is out of line. Go back and look at my
      > > past posts both on this list and the Johannine list. He excluded me
      > > from X-talk but did not exclude me from the Johannine list.
      > > Eventhough the both theories that I tried presenting on X-talk and
      > > the Johannine list groups respectively are innovative not in line
      > > with the traditional way of understanding the texts, if you do not
      > > allow one to think outside of the box (reasonably), then why
      > > discuss anything? Please do go back and re-read my past
      > > conversations with Jeffery on both of these lists, and try to be
      > > objective. Don't defend someone
      > >�� because that person is in your circle of friends.
      > >
      > > Sincerely,
      > >
      > > Matthew Estrada
      > > 113 Laurel Court
      > > Peachtree City, Ga 30269
      > >
      > > Rikk Watts <rwatts@...> wrote:
      > > Dear All,
      > >
      > > I am a moderator on X-talk and have been for a number of years. In
      > view of
      > > the recent posting by Prof. Anthony Damata impugning X-talk and
      > Jeffery I
      > > think it my duty to register a strong protest. If you feel this
      > doesn't
      > > concern you, please feel free to delete.
      > >
      > > The issue here, contra the good prof, is not a love of free
      > discourse,
      > > independence of thought, nor honest posting, all of which are
      > characteristic
      > > of X-talk. It does concern, as Prof Damato notes, a basic academic
      > > sensibility, which on this list entails the requirement that
      > contributors
      > > meet some basic scholarly standards, including some understanding of
      > the
      > > subject matter. The aim is to prevent X-talk from descending into a
      > circus
      > > of ill-informed and free-for-all speculation; if one wants this kind
      > of
      > > thing there are lots of such sites available. I should expect this
      > is also
      > > Anthony's view when it comes to an informed discussion of points of
      > law.
      > >
      > > Unfortunately Prof Damato has failed to adhere to our and presumably
      > his own
      > > standards. E.g., for those of you who have been following the
      > thread, his
      > > pronouncement that "he who saves his life will lose it" is "pure
      > lunacy"
      > > betrays both a lamentably impoverished understanding of the Jewish
      > world in
      > > which Jesus lived and an intemperateness unbecoming to genuine
      > scholarship,
      > > and hence X-talk. It is customary to seek to understand a culture
      > before
      > > leaping to a judgment. His later response to Jeffrey's essay is no
      > > different. If Prof Damato would not tolerate this kind of thing in
      > > professional discussions in his own field, then I should have
      > expected him
      > > to have understood that the same standards would apply to postings
      > on
      > > X-talk.
      > >
      > > Even more unhelpfully, he does this in an argumentative manner.
      > Surely
      > > someone of his education must know that the wise approach when
      > speaking
      > > outside one's field is to ask lots of questions and to at least show
      > a
      > > little humility and tentativeness when making assertions. If I know
      > my own
      > > field is complex then why should I think others' fields are any less
      > so? To
      > > come into a branch of study about which one obviously understands so
      > little
      > > and yet to make such bold assertions betrays, to put it mildly, a
      > > particularly well-developed self-importance which has no place on
      > this list.
      > >
      > > His charges that Jeffery does not allow posts that contradict his
      > own views
      > > and that Jeffery is engaged in tyrannical behavior are utterly
      > untrue, as a
      > > quick perusal of the X-talk files will demonstrate and which files
      > the
      > > learned prof has clearly not consulted, and I take considerable
      > exception to
      > > them. While Jeffery might have stopped a couple of the good Prof's
      > posts �
      > > as is customary when an individual continues to flout list protocols
      > � since
      > > when does that specific translate into a general? Once again we have
      > an
      > > example of a leap to judgment, which I suspect is not altogether
      > unrelated
      > > to that afore mentioned healthy self-importance. After that I am
      > very sorry
      > > to say Prof Damato descends into argumentative supposition regarding
      >
      > > Jeffery's motives and personal attack neither of which either
      > flatter the
      > > professor or strengthen his credibility.
      > >
      > > So no, this is not tyranny or anything like it. It is simply the
      > recognition
      > > that the good prof, regardless of his facility in Law and our shared
      >
      > > appreciation of independence of thought, all too often simply does
      > not know
      > > what he is talking about, yet proceeds to offer opinions with a
      > confidence
      > > to which he can only pretend, and is remarkably resistant to
      > correction.
      > > Fortunately, the vast majority of posters to X-talk happily play by
      > the
      > > rules and have found Jeffery's "game" both stimulating and
      > enlightening, and
      > > thereby give the lie to what can only be characterized as a
      > particularly
      > > misleading and self-serving post.
      > >
      > > Sincerely
      > > Dr. R. Watts (PhD, Cambridge).
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > > ---------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Matthew Estrada
      > >
      > > 113 Laurel Court
      >
      > >
      > > Peachtree City, Ga 30269
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
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      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

      1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
      Chicago, IL 60626

      jgibson000@...



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